::: Z E R O 2 D ::: -- now with 100% more M3D

[Dylacmac]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that the genres were the same. But my experience with rock production will definitely help in learning other genres. And the basics (ie. setting levels properly, panning, working a compressor) apply to all genres, though applying those base skills will, as you said, vary quite a bit.

If you or somebody else would rather take the reigns on mixing, thats fine, especially since my background is mostly rock based. Even so, I think I could probably be of some help. For instance, if you need live drums at some point, I have the ability to record them with pretty decent quality, and I know a great drummer who I'm sure would be glad to help. Same thing with guitar and bass. If not, I would still be happy to help recording any sound effects that can't be made on a synth.

Sorry for oversimplifying in my first post, I would love to be involved however I can in the project.

Edit: I probably should have done so from the beginning, but I just checked out your myspace and was really digging the music. Also saw your bio and you have much more experience than I do, so you are much more qualified than I am to engineer, but I would like to help you out and hopefully learn more about working with electronic music in the process.

 

[Red Arremer]

Glad you guys get along so nicely! I hope all members of our sound/music team will be like you two. ^_^

 

[Jihnsius]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that the genres were the same. But my experience with rock production will definitely help in learning other genres. And the basics (ie. setting levels properly, panning, working a compressor) apply to all genres, though applying those base skills will, as you said, vary quite a bit.

If you or somebody else would rather take the reigns on mixing, thats fine, especially since my background is mostly rock based. Even so, I think I could probably be of some help. For instance, if you need live drums at some point, I have the ability to record them with pretty decent quality, and I know a great drummer who I'm sure would be glad to help. Same thing with guitar and bass. If not, I would still be happy to help recording any sound effects that can't be made on a synth.

Sorry for oversimplifying in my first post, I would love to be involved however I can in the project.

Edit: I probably should have done so from the beginning, but I just checked out your myspace and was really digging the music. Also saw your bio and you have much more experience than I do, so you are much more qualified than I am to engineer, but I would like to help you out and hopefully learn more about working with electronic music in the process.

And I meant no offense by my post. Any and all help is welcome. I don't even know what musical stylings I'd be doing yet, that's up to everyone to tell me what they want to hear.

 

[DarkDragoon]

o_o Oh, so, I want to start spriting, but I'm not sure what I should be doing, and what the other guy is doing, since I don't want to double up on work.

HALP.


EDIT: Working on Shun.
-DD

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I love being out of school. ^_^

The engine is coming along very nicely. It's still in the "boring" stage (nothing really to demonstrate to mere mortals' eyes), but things are moving along. I am going to be testing my physics engine next.

 

[matt4300]

I don't have the time to read 19 pages... So sorry if this has been mentioned.

I suggest using a fairly simple style. Something like J.U.S or Card Sagas wars. I have seen what extremely elaborate sprites do to a mod community. I've been a part of spriteing communitys for years now, and its always best to go with a more stylistic approach that looks really nice but requires little effort and even less time.

 

[shinyspoon42]

o_o Oh, so, I want to start spriting, but I'm not sure what I should be doing, and what the other guy is doing, since I don't want to double up on work.

HALP.


EDIT: Working on Shun.
-DD

I am confused as well. What would you like me to do? What do me and dragoon need to get done?

 

[Jihnsius]

I think as far as anything other than coding is concerned, we're on our own. There's no real organization in this project yet, that's probably something we should work on. I'd say for now you two work together to try to figure out what you can split up. How about you both take on the task of making basic sprites for different characters, whatever comes to mind? Neutral, walking, running, jumping, etc.

Are we going to go with Melee's general lack of character scale? ie: Bowserichu?

Also, is there any chance I can take a look at what you've got going in the code?

For now I'm going to get started on a few different tracks with different feels so we can have some variance to look at and agree upon what we want to go with.

 

[shinyspoon42]

Some direction and goals would help. I'm hesitant to start anything, until I know what dark is doing already.

It'll depend on the roster, I guess.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

We do have direction. I'm probably just lousy at conveying it. So, let me give you the breakdown:

- Spadefox is focusing on character/story design. He is not doing any art or sound, so he is mostly working behind the scenes, but he is giving the characters structure.
- DarkDragoon is currently working on a full sprite sheet of Shun. He is focusing on completing all animations since this is mostly for a test run.
- AltF4 is working with me on forming a networking protocol for eventual online play. He will also assist with coding once I put the code base into the SVN.
- Our composers are (supposedly?) working on pieces for stages. I suppose this is one area we need some direction. We need some canvas painters and stage designers. Composers can work on any music at the moment.

So, Jihnsius, I will have the code base up soon at the project page. Are you familiar with Subversion (SVN)? Once I start using SVN, you will be able to see/download/review all of my code changes/updates. I am just waiting until the engine is to where I want it before uploading it. That doesn't mean I am waitint until I have a fully functional game; I am simply organizing the engine to where all the core components (video, audio, device input, etc.) are where I want them. Then I will start making the game actually work.

We also need some organization in terms of gathering sound effects. Naturally, jihnsius, I would put you in charge of that.

As far as "official art style" and "physics decisions", those have to wait. Yes, we can discuss them and throw around ideas, but I'm trying to get this super test run going so we have some actual feel for what's going on. I'm having DD do simple art in case we do not like the art style, colors, size, resolution, etc.

shinyspoon42, do you have an IRC client? You should join the IRC channel. The person to ask for direction on what to work on would be Spadefox. Until then, you could work on our swordsman since DD is covering Shun right now.

 

[Red Arremer]

Since I'm kindasorta the one managing the whole things and keeping everything together, an official statement from my side!

Everyone. Please calm down... :3

Listen.

We don't need to hurry. We have our time. Take a deep breath, don't stress yourself out (except for DD, he should be stressing himself >:[ ).
I've finished the general setting for the official release, and I'm going to try find people who are able to provide us with artwork for stages.

@Musicians:
For now, though, everything goes. Considering Buzz and I have agreed on that we probably will have a music selection for each stage like Brawl has, we'll somehow be able to squeeze in every track you want to give us - provided it fits for fighting games.

@Spriters:
I have no idea what DD actually is doing! If he does Shun, I have no idea how since he has no moves yet.
I can give everyone who hasn't seen the character artwork these pictures. DD has posted sprites based on these, as well, I can post them too, maybe I'll make a posting to refer everyone to where all updates on these 2 characters in terms of looks and so are kept.
If someone wants to sprite a whole character and his sheet, I can give you the movelist for Darius (Shun's is currently in the works).

Keep in mind that Darius (the knight) and Shun (the martial artist) are only made for Beta stuff. You will see Darius use Marth's Up B and whatnot, but that's only for the testing stuff! The moves will be made more original as soon as we have the engine running and start putting in new characters on the roster, so you're gonna have to work a lot with these 2.

@Sound Engineers:
For now we mainly need punch/kick sounds and sword slashes of all sorts.

@Artsy people:
Character artwork is cool if you do, especially if you make something colored. For now, though, we mainly need people who can provide us concept arts of locations and probably backgrounds, as well - as Buzz said.

@Everyone else:
We'll be making an own Zero2D forum. That is mainly because this thread is already too small to properly organize, as well as the fact I have pulled in a few people from other forums to help us out (that's mainly composers, and the main character artist so far).
As soon as the boards are usable, I'll link everyone there and Buzz and I will try to flatten out the disorganization. It's getting far too hard to have an overview as of now. XD

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

http://zero2d.smashnexus.net/

 

[shinyspoon42]

*signs up*

 

[DarkDragoon]

I don't have the time to read 19 pages... So sorry if this has been mentioned.

I suggest using a fairly simple style. Something like J.U.S or Card Sagas wars. I have seen what extremely elaborate sprites do to a mod community. I've been a part of spriteing communitys for years now, and its always best to go with a more stylistic approach that looks really nice but requires little effort and even less time.

>_> Well, Card Saga does not really have a simple style. It looks simple, but the process you need to put into that level of detail is a pain in the ***, especially at that size.

With that said, my style is simple cell-shading, and sprites can just as easily be made in MSPaint[my preferred medium], as they could be on Photoshop, since all it really goes into it are 3-5 different shades of the colors placed in proper shading spots.

Simple enough, no?

I am confused as well. What would you like me to do? What do me and dragoon need to get done?

Me, Shun.
You, Darius.

@Spriters:
I have no idea what DD actually is doing! If he does Shun, I have no idea how since he has no moves yet.
I can give everyone who hasn't seen the character artwork these pictures. DD has posted sprites based on these, as well, I can post them too, maybe I'll make a posting to refer everyone to where all updates on these 2 characters in terms of looks and so are kept.
If someone wants to sprite a whole character and his sheet, I can give you the movelist for Darius (Shun's is currently in the works).

Keep in mind that Darius (the knight) and Shun (the martial artist) are only made for Beta stuff. You will see Darius use Marth's Up B and whatnot, but that's only for the testing stuff! The moves will be made more original as soon as we have the engine running and start putting in new characters on the roster, so you're gonna have to work a lot with these 2.

>_> I'm making basic poses/animations. Gimme moves brah.
-DD

 

[tirkaro]

waitwaitwait.

From what I got from SMYN, I thought this was essentially MUGEN with a smash engine.

But from what I'm getting from this thread, you seem to be making, more or less, Super Smash Flash with a create-a-wrestler option.

See, thing is, MUGEN is not supposed to be a game. Games are supposed to be made from MUGEN. MUGEN is nothing more than an engine that happens to have a large community built around toying around with it.

I'd honestly prefer it if Z E R O 2 D was more of an engine like MUGEN with a lot of freedom to toy around with, and make your own games with, rather than a customizable game like what a lot of people seem to be mistaking MUGEN for.

 

[DarkDragoon]

waitwaitwait.

From what I got from SMYN, I thought this was essentially MUGEN with a smash engine.

But from what I'm getting from this thread, you seem to be making, more or less, Super Smash Flash with a create-a-wrestler option.

See, thing is, MUGEN is not supposed to be a game. Games are supposed to be made from MUGEN. MUGEN is nothing more than an engine that happens to have a large community built around toying around with it.

I'd honestly prefer it if Z E R O 2 D was more of an engine like MUGEN with a lot of freedom to toy around with, and make your own games with, rather than a customizable game like what a lot of people seem to be mistaking MUGEN for.

>_> Nothing is set in stone about custom-content yet, I recall Buzz said he may leave it open source, but it isn't bad to have an "official" game that goes along with the engine.

No one really plays MUGEN games because its over-freedom devolved it into chaotic broken character bonanzas, with exceptions like Card Saga Wars, which have tremendous amounts of effort put into them, and get no where.

I'm hoping to get a competitive community, not a development community that produces dozens and dozens of the same game over and over. I've seen that happen too much already =3=;

-DD

 

[Dantarion]

Once you guys get something playable up, I'll think about helping out

 

[Red Arremer]

waitwaitwait.

From what I got from SMYN, I thought this was essentially MUGEN with a smash engine.

Yes. That's what Zero2D is.

But from what I'm getting from this thread, you seem to be making, more or less, Super Smash Flash with a create-a-wrestler option.

No. The code will be open source, you can do whatever you want with it. Not only create your own characters. You can remove the characters we will have in the official pack.

See, thing is, MUGEN is not supposed to be a game. Games are supposed to be made from MUGEN. MUGEN is nothing more than an engine that happens to have a large community built around toying around with it.

That's the same we want to do with Zero2D, but additionally, we as developers are actually making a game from it, as well. Just as an addition, you see. We want it to be a engine, but also make a game from this engine, not only a mere "toy" like MUGEN is.

I'd honestly prefer it if Z E R O 2 D was more of an engine like MUGEN with a lot of freedom to toy around with, and make your own games with, rather than a customizable game like what a lot of people seem to be mistaking MUGEN for.

As said, Zero2D will be open source. You want to have freedom? Delete all of our roster, add your own stuff, program everything into a different thing, add in your own music, etc.
We won't hold you back. The code will be open source. Do whatever you want with it.

People don't seem to grasp the fact that this project is made of two parts. I wonder what we can do to make them understand that.

 

[tirkaro]

Ah okay, I get it now

People don't seem to grasp the fact that this project is made of two parts. I wonder what we can do to make them understand that.

You can call the Engine Z E R O 2 D, and have the actual game called Super Smash ZERO or something.

No one really plays MUGEN games because its over-freedom devolved it into chaotic broken character bonanzas, with exceptions like Card Saga Wars, which have tremendous amounts of effort put into them, and get no where.

http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?board=310.0;filter=36

no, there's still quite a bit of organized MUGEN projects. What you're talking about is the MUGEN engine itself, which is, like I said, is just toyed around with.

and broken character bonanza? From what I can tell, entire roster of broken characters=balanced game.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I'll just clarify: with Zero2D, all it takes to add a character is a folder containing PNG files (frames of animation), WAV files (character sound effects), and a data file (likely will be a 02D file or something) defining the character's attributes. There will be no need to pry through source code and figure out how to add characters using technical mumbo jumbo. Yes, there will be an "official roster" and whatnot, but that will have no bearing on others' ability to add custom characters.

 

[shinyspoon42]

Once you guys get something playable up, I'll think about helping out

That will take a while, but we'll let you know when we get there.

 

[Red Arremer]

You can call the Engine Z E R O 2 D, and have the actual game called Super Smash ZERO or something.

The actual "official" release probably will have an own name. Nothing directly related to Smash, though.

 

[shinyspoon42]

The actual "official" release probably will have an own name. Nothing directly related to Smash, though.

Time for crazy name-storming (get it? its brainstorming for names, thats the kind of cool name we need)

 

[Red Arremer]

Time for crazy name-storming (get it? its brainstorming for names, thats the kind of cool name we need)

Not yet. We'll get to that once we're getting **** going.

 

[shinyspoon42]

Not yet. We'll get to that once we're getting **** going.

Alright, guess I'll just keep lurking the thread until I can do some work.

 

[K.K_Slider]

Mugen with a smash engine... best thing since Mugen itself.

Also just wondering are you also going to attempt to make a program to help construct fighters like mugens fighter factory anywhere in the near future if this is completed or not?

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Mugen with a smash engine... best thing since Mugen itself.

Also just wondering are you also going to attempt to make a program to help construct fighters like mugens fighter factory anywhere in the near future if this is completed or not?

I have thought about this. I really want to make such a program; it's all a matter of time available to me. Perhaps someone else can take the initiative once we have a full set of specs for how characters are designed.

 

[smashbro29]

If you make a program like that, please make it super easy to use. I'm such a spaz at this computer stuff.

 

[Jimnymebob]

This project seems very interesting, so I'll be keeping a close eye on things.
I actually don't know which is more appealing, a custom game that keeps the ideas of Smash, a Smash-like game whre you can make custom content, or a fighting game with a storyline that isn't crap or ridiculous (looking at you Soul Calibur).

I'd be more than happy to help with the graphic side of things when the time for that sort of stuff comes.

Finally, I know this is way early in development/concept, but how is the story going to be played out, animated cutscenes, still portraits or what?

 

[Red Arremer]

Finally, I know this is way early in development/concept, but how is the story going to be played out, animated cutscenes, still portraits or what?

Since we have no animators and drawers for that stuff, it probably will be still portraits.
We don't know yet, tho. :V

I would prefer animation, but that's going to be a pain in the ***.

 

[Dantarion]

You guys should probably make a tool for matching hitboxes to frames of animation.

Ive made one before, it outputted xml and was written in C++ using QT/OpenGL.
Hitboxes are a pain in the *** sometimes.
Remember, you guys need to give each hitbox an ID so it can't hit twice, for example, you might have a attack that lasts 5 frames, but the attack shouldn't hit 5 times, etc.

Just my two cents

 

[smash superstar]

This is very interested...Buzz I would like to help out if you are needing any help. I am going to the art institute so I have plenty of tools at my disposal to use to help.

 

[Red Arremer]

I would prefer people to tell us how they would like to help us instead of telling us that they would like to help us.

 

[:034:]

I am interested in helping you out, but not very useful at all! Huh.

Anyway, I'm an okay artist if I may say so myself and very interested in helping with a project like this. I love Smash and I love drawing - what could go wrong? You can find some of my stuff right here: Just click this link, or something.

If you need an artist for characters, stages, or just about anything, drop me a PM, mail or reply. If you want an extra showcase of me drawing actual Smash characters, feel free to ask.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

You guys should probably make a tool for matching hitboxes to frames of animation.

Ive made one before, it outputted xml and was written in C++ using QT/OpenGL.
Hitboxes are a pain in the *** sometimes.
Remember, you guys need to give each hitbox an ID so it can't hit twice, for example, you might have a attack that lasts 5 frames, but the attack shouldn't hit 5 times, etc.

Just my two cents

Agreed. I was going to implement that system for sure.

This is very interested...Buzz I would like to help out if you are needing any help. I am going to the art institute so I have plenty of tools at my disposal to use to help.

Join the Zero2D forums to find where you can be the most help.

 

[smash superstar]

Well really i am fine with doing anything, I wasnt for sure what all you were looking for...if you need someone to maybe advertise trailers or something i would love to do that...really anything with video I would be best

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Video trailers would be super awesome! Unfortunately, that leaves virtually nothing for you to do right now, but once the engine is functional, I will be needing your talents for sure!

 

[matt4300]

If you havent already decided on a style then hear me out on this....



PLEASE dont use the first sprite's size and style... your only gonna find like mabye 2 people that can do it right. Plus we will have to create every sprite for every char T_T
It took around 2 hours to do that 1 falcon sprite... Now I'm sure that it would go much quicker now that I have the pallet and initial sprite. But, It would still be about 30 mins a sprite, and judgeing from the amount of animations each char will need... you get the picture >_>'

On the flip side the smaller falcon sprite took 5 mins!!! looks slick and since its mugen you can always just make it bigger. The best part of using smaller sprites would be that we would have a ton of sprites for a lot of chars! Not just what I have up there either. You can find so many sprites of so many chars that size... Its perfect and takes MUCH less time, and we would only have to fill in the blanks for the moves that arent in their sheets for the ones like that sonic or megaman. Being a smash game the chars are gonna be pretty small anyway while fighting because it zooms out. Trust me this is the way to go.

If you don't think those small sprites can look good in mugen check this out http://cardgallery.tales-tra.com/main.htm and this dude is useing smaller sprites than the ones I have up there. He just blew them up to a good size that looks right.

Lastly ... if you do decide to use the bigger sprites... I really wouldnet have the time to work on them... It takes to long. But if you did decide on the smaller ones or some smaller less time consumeing sprite style I would personally do whatever char you want to start. Then continue on other ones. (as long as the engine looks good)

 

[tirkaro]

I kinda assumed Z2D would have a similar sprite size to Super Smash Flash, aka, standard SNES/GBA size.

 

[PHD]

Hey, I'd be willing to help with programming. I've done projects in C++ and know a little OpenGL. I was a physics major in college, so I could be helpful in that aspect too if I got involved with coding on the project.