Your Matchups

[Coney]

i was just curious as to what this board thought about each individual matchup? maybe we can talk about them and get some discussion going, hopefully we'll have a real brand new discussion thread underway soon but in the meantime, this could be a good starting point

35-65/3-7, Large Disadvantage

5-5, Even
4-6, Disadvantage
4-6, Disadvantage
6-4, Advantage
6-4, Advantage
4-6, Disadvantage

4-6, Disadvantage
45-55, Small Disadvantage
55-45, Small Advantage
55-45, Small Advantage (maybe 6-4 with the new usmash)
45-55, Small Disadvantage

5-5, Even
5-5, Even
4-6/45-55, Disadvantage to Small Disadvantage
6-4, Advantage
5-5, Even
55-45/6-4, Small Advantage to Advantage
6-4, Advantage (without infinite of course)

55-45/6-4, Small Advantage to Advantage
6-4, Advantage (ledge infinite banned)
:shelda: 5-5, Even
55-45, Small Advantage
6-4, Advantage
55-45, Small Advantage
6-4, Advantage
7-3, Large Advantage

55-45, Small Advantage
7-3, Large Advantage
6-4, Advantage
7-3, Large Advantage (without infinite)

6-4, Advantage
7-3, Large Advantage (without infinite)
??? NO CLUE
7-3, Large Advantage
??? NO CLUE

7-3 Large Advantage

 

[Laem]

4-6/35-65

45-55 to 55-45 (stage dependant)
4-6
4-6/35-65
6-4
55-45
4-6,

4-6/35-65
45-55
5-5/55-45
6-4
4-6

5-5
5-5
4-6/45-55
6-4
55-45
55-45/6-4
6-4

55-45
6-4
5-5
55-45
6-4
50-50
6-4
6-4

6-4
65-35
6-4
7-3/even more!?

65-35
6-4
55-45/6-4
65-35
55-45

7-3

No infinites nor smallsteps.
Some other MUs are pretty stagedependant as well (cough falco) but only snake's tips the mu from advantage to disadvantage(instead of from bad/good to even worse/better).

Coneh, watch mah vids i posted

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

30-70 at the highest level of play

55-45
45-55
40-60
60-40 overall
55-45
40-60 (I'm now convinced this wasn't as bad as it used to be)

40-60
45-55
50-50
60-40 with Buffered Up Smash out of D-Throw Mastered. 55-45 otherwise.
45-55

50-50
50-50 ( I need to learn this one better but I think its even)
45-55
60-40
50-50
55-45
60-40

55-45
60-40
55-45 or 60-40 with Buffered Up Smash out of D-Throw Mastered
60-40
55-45
60-40
65-35 overall. (It'd be better but is a *****)

55-45
65-35
60-40
65-35

60-40
65-35 maybe 70-30
60-40
70-30
60-40

75-25

And the ratios above are all without Ledge or Small Step infinites.

Also if you guys wanted I'd be happy to start a new MU discussion thread.

 

[DewDaDash]

35-65 Large Disadvantage

55-45, Even
4-6, Disadvantage
5-5/45-55 even/very slight disadvantage
7-3, large Advantage
6-4, Advantage
4-6/35-65, Disadvantage

45-55/4-6, slight Disadvantage
4-6, Disadvantage
6-4, Advantage
6-4, Advantage
4-6, Disadvantage

6-4, advantage
55-45/6-4 slight advantage
5-5/55-45 Even
6-4/65-35, big Advantage
6-4, advantage
6-4, Advantage
;DK: 65-35 big advantage

55-45, Small Advantage
6-4, Advantage (ledge infinite banned)
:shelda: 55-45/6-4
6-4/65-35 advantage
6-4, Advantage
6-4, Advantage
6-4, Advantage
7-3, Large Advantage

6-4, Advantage
7-3, Large Advantage
6-4/7-3, Unsure but large advantage
7-3, Large Advantage

7-3, large Advantage
7-3, Large Advantage
7-3?
7-3, Large Advantage
55-45/6-4 slight advantage

100-0 lol

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

35-65 Large Disadvantage

55-45, Even
4-6, Disadvantage
5-5/45-55 even/very slight disadvantage
7-3, large Advantage
6-4, Advantage
4-6/35-65, Disadvantage

45-55/4-6, slight Disadvantage
4-6, Disadvantage
6-4, Advantage
6-4, Advantage
4-6, Disadvantage

6-4, advantage
55-45/6-4 slight advantage
5-5/55-45 Even
6-4/65-35, big Advantage
6-4, advantage
6-4, Advantage
;DK: 65-35 big advantage

55-45, Small Advantage
6-4, Advantage (ledge infinite banned)
:shelda: 55-45/6-4
6-4/65-35 advantage
6-4, Advantage
6-4, Advantage
6-4, Advantage
7-3, Large Advantage

6-4, Advantage
7-3, Large Advantage
6-4/7-3, Unsure but large advantage
7-3, Large Advantage

7-3, large Advantage
7-3, Large Advantage
7-3?
7-3, Large Advantage
55-45/6-4 slight advantage

100-0 lol

LOL Falco as even?? ***** please.

 

[Coney]

wow this dude thinks ddd beats everyone

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

*looks closely at Coney's ratios*

We agree on most of these. Yay.

 

[weigelct]

heh there's no way we are "even/very slight disadvantage" against falco...
if you twisted my arm for a ratio, I would say 45-55 to 40-60 disadvantage.

 

[Flayl]

Do you feel experienced (enough) for ALL of these matchups?

This you means all players that have posted so far.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Coney probably knows his stuff with MUs better than anyone else. I've learned so much MU wise from him.

Personally, I feel very confident in my numbers. I know that I picked up DDD in spring of 2010 however, I've traveled a lot for out of state tournies and been exposed to the metagame from many areas. Because of this, it allowed my D3 to catch up to my Snake since I've been using D3 more out of state. ESPECIALLY with top and high tier.

I'll admit that half of the roster from D tier to Ganon are educated guesses. I haven't played enough of some of those MUs. Everything else..I can state my case from experience.

 

[Laem]

no1 knows all matchups.

 

[Coney]

some of my stuff could very well be off, especially the lesser-played characters, specifically allegedly disadvantageous matchups like ZSS or pikachu. i've also been told i overstate ddd's disadvantages in a few matchups, like falco or diddy, but i really don't think so.

also dk might very well just be 55-45, wacky as that sounds. cable has beaten vex's ddd, will has beaten both atomsk and myself in the past. i beat him in our most recent set but it still went to game three, and was very close.

 

[DewDaDash]

^^ LOL there is no way dk mu is 55-45. The lowest is probably 6-4. DK is easier to fight than ike and even ike I put around 6-4*.

lol I don't see what makes ddd lose so strongly to falco as you guys put it. There are two ways to approach falco. You can either approach him and be aggressive.... and get ***** and make it a 40-60 mu or you can ban FD and camp on a floating platform and make the mu 45-55. To be fair though the highest lvl falco player I've played is xaltis but even when playing him I feel the mu is about even or around a slight disadvantage. Just power shield all his lasers and you'll be good. Falco has no killing power unless he racks you up to a high % and even then his up-smash is predictable to shield.

As for the others I feel they're right, I don't see which mus are wrong. I mean that is pretty much why ddd is so far up the tierlist as it is isnt it?

I mean thats just how I feel in these mus. Another way of looking at it is this is my confidence against each character. Obviously different regions will view it differently. playing pikachu and zss enough times the mu is def 4-6. Lucario I feel, we have a good advantage against but I don't play good lucarios really so I've never lost to one in tourney. Pit is def. in our favor, what in the world makes that mu even? toonlink is in our advantage, ive played 2nlio a lot and thats what it feels like for the most part.

 

[Coney]

don't you think it's awfully presumptuous, though, to insist that ZSS and pika are bad for us because of your personal experience playing the top mains of those characters, but then discount what other people say when they've played the top mains of other characters?

i mean i get what you're saying about ZSS and pika being bad for us, i'll trust you on that because you obviously have more experience than i do, but it's unfair to claim knowledge of other characters when you haven't experienced their top players.

 

[DewDaDash]

well pikachu has a chaingrab and zss has her stun **** as well as the possible chaingrab. Last time I played esam was 09 but regardless I still feel the mu is hard. I haven't really played riddle since then either but I did play a purty good zss at the last tourney in about 20 friendlies or so just to learn the mu more. I usually just felt like the matches were trade offs and just felt the mu shouldn't be that hard.

I'm not even discounting what you're saying but what are these "top" players of these characters doing that I'm not seeing? DDD has a chaingrab on ike/lucario/toonlink/dk/pit. Pretty much all those characters fall onto the same spectrum against DDD. They are all more or less equally hard against ddd.

Are you telling me that DK has some hidden technique that I haven't taken account for or pit for that matter?

 

[Atomsk_92]

Zss is 6:4 DDD. Pika is 6:4 Pika. DK is 55:45. Ike is 65:35

 

[Tmacc]

3-7, our hardest matchup
5-5
4-6
4-6
55-45
55-45, I dont see how we have THAT big of an advantage in this MU, I think it's quite even
4-6

4-6
4-6, I think this MU is one of our hardest unless you have a lot of experience
55-45
6-4
45-55

5-5
5-5
45-55
6-4
5-5
55-45
55-45

55-45
65-35
55-45
6-4
6-4, Advantage
55-45
6-4
65-35

5-5
7-3
6-4, Advantage
7-3

6-4
7-3
6-4
7-3
65-35

7-3

 

[Laem]

wait wait wait

atomsk are u saying ddd beats zss 6-4 O_O

 

[Atomsk_92]

Yes I am. I also think DDD beats TL 6:4.

 

[Cook]

I don't understand why people say ZSS beats DDD. Can't you just shield and punish... everything? Unless you get pushed too far away, but then you can just roll back and start again. I mean, if you just run in and shield every time then they can start grabbing, but... it's ZSS's grab. I haven't played very good ZSSes ,though, so I guess that's why I don't see what I'm missing and am curious as to what makes it bad.