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Young Link's Match-Up Chart thread

Laijin

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There's a bunch of characters that you two (Rhan/Laijin) are both agreed about, but I can get some elaborations before I put them up?

Kirby, ICs, Mario, Luigi, Doc, Mewtwo, Roy, Samus, Yoshi and Zelda.

Just so people that aren't aware of everything about Young Link can read up if they're curious why the match-ups are the way they are.

n_n
Sure sure.
Do you want us to just describe the match up from Young Link's perspective? I would really like more input from Vanz and TRC(I'll get him to post here lol)
 

Laijin

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Double Post:

I made some modifications to my list:

The way I weighted this was by ratios(As they are ratios). For example, in my opinion Fox vs Peach is 60-40. That means Peach wins 40 out of 100 times against Fox. That means in a set, it is likely that Peach will lose 2-1'ed by the Fox player. Keep this in mind when reading this match up chart.

80-20
40-60
70-30
35-65
30-70
45-55
70-30
45-55
47-53
70-30
52-48
45-55
50-50
45-55
40-60
70-30
70-30
55-45
70-30
50-50
60-40
45-55(I'm really not sure about this match up at all lol)
35-65
-----
70-30
60-40
 

rhan

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There's a bunch of characters that you two (Rhan/Laijin) are both agreed about, but I can get some elaborations before I put them up?

Kirby, ICs, Mario, Luigi, Doc, Mewtwo, Roy, Samus, Yoshi and Zelda.

Just so people that aren't aware of everything about Young Link can read up if they're curious why the match-ups are the way they are.

n_n
I got no problem with that. 1st intelligent post in a while...

45-55

Young Link v IC's can be stage dependent when it comes to the match-up. We need platforms to break some of these grabs and for something to land on. Everyone knows once IC gets a grab that's a hefty amount of damage. But Young Link has a ton of projectiles to keep the IC's at bay. As long as we're constantly moving and using the platforms we are provided with usefully then we'll be in a good position. The IC player can't really stop any form of bombs falling from the sky.

If we're playing on FD it's harder to keep IC's at bay. Bombs/boomerang/nair are our main moves on stage. But we constantly have to be moving to avoid the IC getting too close. If we're pushed to the edge then we pretty much have to rely on edge refreshing and trying to find a way back on without getting punished or grabbed then punished.

The main objective here is to pretty much kill off Nana and spreading them apart with mainly bombs since they have the multiple hit boxes. Once Nana is killed off then it's like fighting another Young Link without the good projectiles. It's always a must that the Young Link player has a bomb on him at all times. This can save his life even in the most crucial situations.

Summary: I say it's 45 - 55 Because Young Link has the speed and projectiles to keep the IC's away. But once the IC player lands a grab that's a hefty amount of damage and possibly that stock.

Reference Matches

None to be found. (Help?)

70-30

Okay... It's Kirby.. He doesn't have many options against anyone to begin with. He pretty much limited to Bairs and possibly Dairs when we're upon recovery..

I'm not too knowledgeable of this match-up. I haven't seen Young Link be played against Kirby but I use to play Kirby against my doubles partner Shaeman who play Link.

But Kirby's main move in the match-up is Bair. Utilt works well for some juggles. At low percent he can Utilt about 3 - 4 times into a Bair -> Bair. But Young Link can stop any option that Kirby has to throw at him with Nair. Nair beats Kirby in the match. Simple projectiles combos work against him too. Like Boomerang -> Dair or Bomb -> Dair. Upon Kirby's recover, if he's just going to puff over the stage Nair him. If he tried for a sweet spot then D-smash is the best choice. Even if the front hit box misses the back hit box to the d-smash has more range frontward. SO our timing isn't even needed to really kill Kirby that way. Once we hit him out of his Up B it's done.

Summary: 70 - 30 because Kirby is garbage and doesn't have many options against Young Link when it comes to approaching and edge guarding.

Brookman v Hayato 1
Brookman v Hayato 2

45-55

I've actually had the pleasure in playing Ka-Master at Pound 4 for like 3 rounds Young Link v Luigi. I'll try to base it off those.

Young Link needs platforms. Platforms are his best friend many match-ups... actually all. Best stage to play this match is probably on Yoshi's. Low top to kill Luigi easy.

Luigi can keep up better through his wavedash. As long as he knows how to wavedash out of shield Young Link's projectiles won't have much effect on him if they just bounce off a shield. He'll just swoop underneath them. Projectiles aren't completely worthless in the match but they're not effective if they don't connect. Bombs are important. Like always simple projectile combos work against Luigi. We're kinda forced to play more aggro in the match-up. Retreating Fairs are nice when the Luigi is trying to approach us. Nair can be used too. But we have to be sure to not get grabbed because that can lead to anything he pleases. We have to watch out for Fairs/Dairs mostly from Luigi but all his ariels are suefull from setting us up for different things.

Since he's floaty Dairs and Uairs are the main killers. You can't really kill Weegee off the sides because of his incredible horizontal recovery. But he has a better edge guarding plan. I believe that Fair/Bair can go through pout Up B if timed correctly. Once we're hit back way from the stage that's our stock.

The approaches are about even but Luigi has possibly the better approach because of wavedashing OoS.

Summary: 45 - 55 Luigi can stop out projectiles easier then most characters. And get around them simply when he's grounded. His recovery definitely is better. Edgaurding for him just requires him to just edge hops and Bair/Fairs.

Jash v Vist (Most recent)
NinjaLink v YRB

50-50

Played against Boss many times. These matches are pretty even. Mario plays kinda like Luigi but he has a more troublesome time getting around the projectiles. The cape is a nice way to deflect them though. Mario has shffl combos if we DI incorrectly. Uair -> Uair -> F-Smash/Fair is just an example. Mario's fireball isn't so effective. They kinda annoying but not that hard to get around.

But out main objective is to get him off stage. Nair works wonders. Running CC D-Smash is pretty tricky in this match too. Standard projectile combos work as long as the initial projectile connects.

Edge guarding Mario is easier since his recover isn't as good as Luigi's. But he can pretty much edge guard us the same way Luigi does minus the Fair.

Summary: 50 - 50. It's an easier Luigi but the match-up is still troublesome on the approach if we don't land a projectile. And we're forced to play aggro.


Reference Matches

RC v Ramz
Hero Sublime v Eggz

46-54

Okay he's Mario except stronger. Does all the same stuff Mario can do to us. But his pills are hella annoying..

Summary: 46 - 54. It's Mario except he has a reliable and much more annoying projectile.

Reference Matches

Laijin v Dogy

70-30 64 - 36

Projectiles shuts down about everything Mewtwo has. Plus he's a big target. Only true approach I can see from a Mewtwo is Up B towards us. and then that's not all that safe. Standard projectiles combos work and are greatly effective. Also if we wanted to we could just Nair him across the stage. Or pull something like Nair -> D-Smash off. Main killing moves against Mewtwo is Dair and Uair. He's floaty and those two moves are easily set up with a boomerang or bomb. If Mewtwo gets close enough and lands a grab that's going to lead up to many things. But if we're above about 100% then an up throw as the potential to kill us.

Edge guarding Mewtwo is difficult because of the unpredictability of the Up B and how fast it is.

Summary: Maybe 70 - 30 is being a little too optimistic. At best it's 70 - 30. But I think on average it's about 64 - 36.

Reference Matches

Iori v Zero (The YL is kinda bad but it shows the options that Mewtwo has against Young Link and what cmbos he can do and whatnot.
Jash v ZeroFuision (Same could be said about this match where the Mewtwo was kinda bad.. LOL)
Dark.Pch v NinjaLink

63-47

I play against one of the best Roy's that doesn't go anywhere. This match is all about camping your nuts off and waiting for that opening to kill him. He's heavy-ish so juggling and uair combos are nice. FD is my preferred stage for this match-up. But Roy can use the first hit of the DED to stop the boomerang. That's a timing thing though. If you have a bomb in your hand after you threw the rang just throw the bomb right after.

Roy's two main killers are the 3rd hit of the DED and his F-Smash. Those are (or should be) hard to land without a combo that lead into them. But he can't really combo if we keep a good projectile web up. Roy's Ditlt starts most of his combos against any character. So we have to watch out for a CCing Roy player and avoid getting close and hitting him in anyway.

Edge guarding Roy is about as tricky as edge guarding Marth. You can't really just sit at the edge and wait to time the move. His Blazer will hit right through whatever you may try. And edge hogging will just result in you getting hit by the blazer if you don't edge refresh. Best thing we can do is just Nair him off stage in the middle of his recovery. Out recovery should be good enough to return because either we'll trade hits with his Blazer or just straight Nair him in the mouth. Roy's edge guarding against us is limited but good. If we miss the sweet spot then we can either get the F-Smash or Dtilt -> F-Smash. Or if the Roy player is a real diq then DED 3rd hit down spike. He can also just time the counter just right to simply kill us out of our Up B.

Summary: 63 - 47 because Roy has few options on stage and as for killing moves. And if we keep a projectile wall to keep him at bay he can't do much. But once we're off stage he's in a good spot. And once he's off stage he's alright but if we decide to intercept him in the middle of the recovery then he's screwed.

Reference Matches

NinjaLink v Jash 1
NinjaLink v Jash 2
NinjaLink v Jash 3
NinjaLink v Jash 4

47-53

I second/main Samus. My brother is about my skill level and mains Samus and plays Young Link. lol This match is weirdest.

Samus v Young Link is a projectile game. Missles are easily broken but can really **** up a Young Link player. Nair break them easiest. But it's probably better to avoid them as much as possible then just risk attacking them. Main killing moves against Samus is Uair/Dair. Nair's a nice move to use for that hit. Samus' Nair and YL's Nair are very simular. While Young Link's is faster Samus' covers more ground. They both are both just as deadly effective. Samus is most deadly on the ground so once you get her in the air keep her there. The only options she legitimately have when she's in the air is to either falling Nair or Bomb to mindgame while returning to land. Once she's on the ground then her main strat is to poke at you and bait an approach. Then she'll CC everything you'll do and follow up with a good punish (F-Smash depending on what move you attacked with but more then likely a D-Smash). Her Ftilt sends back our boomerang and bombs are easily catchable for her.

Young Link's main goal is to get a projectile setup. Or any kid of set up. Utilt/U-Smash works when she's trying to come from above. Once she';s off the stage the best recovery option she has if trying to go for the edge is Up B. If she misses the sweet spot then it's a free Dtilt/D-smash. But if she does it right there isn't anything you can do. Maybe place a bomb on the edge of the stage to prevent a sweet spot that will either force her to make sure she gets that PERFECT sweet spot. Or grapple. If she grapples it's easy to follow up afterwards. If you're on the edge just wait for her to zip and you just edge hop Dair. EZ mode.

Summary: 47 - 53. It's not a bad match for Samus but it's not exactly all that great either. Young Link has teh ability to be quick enough to follow up from about everything he does and Samus' limited options in air and upon recovery make it easy to get a kill. But when she's on the ground that's when we're in trouble.

Reference Matches (YL v Sammy)

Laijin v Dogy
Vwins v Lanowen
NinjaLink v Oil
Rhan v Rob

65-35

No general knowledge. It just seemed right... lmao

60-40

Again no general knowledge but on paper and all the options Young Link has I honestly don't believe that Zelda can stop the projectile web and our approaches.

Sure sure.
Do you want us to just describe the match up from Young Link's perspective? I would really like more input from Vanz and TRC(I'll get him to post here lol)
I can convince RC to get back on the Young Link boards. I talk to him from time to time over Facebook.

SN: How the **** did 4 hours fly by... I started this at about 1 a.m. EST...
 

NJzFinest

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I'm pretty sure Jash 3 stocked Bum last time they played?
Wasn't he the best DK player or something?
1stocked and NY players said he was sandbagging. JOHNS I know, just saying. Nevertheless, it was best DK vs best YLink and was close.
Dks sheild is a joke... a big joke.... you can throw a rand or bomb or arrow and always hit him
By the way, characters with bad shields are weak to moves that actually shield poke. Arrows, Bombs and boomerang are too tiny. DK's shield is just find against them unless a bomb is about to explode. Normally I light shield spam anyways.
I hope you also notice DK moves basically just as fast as YLink too.
its easily 65 35 or 70 30
M00NY MATCH

Are trying to convince me YLink beats DK just as good as Falco? Lasers, actual shield pressure, killing moves, and actual combos? LOL no, I don't think so. DK can actually have some breathing room vs YLink and lives longer.
 

Lordydennek

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Ya I'll mm you. I feel 100% confident I'll win it. and what are you talking about with sheild pokes. I can hit dk from anywhere on the stage with anything.
problem is youre goin to have to come to MO
 

Mind Trick

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I don't think there's enough actual playing done in the yoshi - yl mu for anyone to have a well informed opinion on it. I've played top players who had hiim as a low tier, or just played him for fun, but never a dedicated main. I think the same goes for the yl players here.
In my experience it wasn't that hard of a mu, while I'm seeing 65-70 numbers here in favor of yl lol
 

rhan

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By the way, characters with bad shields are weak to moves that actually shield poke. Arrows, Bombs and boomerang are too tiny. DK's shield is just find against them unless a bomb is about to explode. Normally I light shield spam anyways.
I hope you also notice DK moves basically just as fast as YLink too.
D-Smash bypasses horrible shields! :D

Ya I'll mm you. I feel 100% confident I'll win it. and what are you talking about with sheild pokes. I can hit dk from anywhere on the stage with anything.
problem is youre goin to have to come to MO
Oh ****! WE JUST GOT A REAL MATCH!

I don't think there's enough actual playing done in the yoshi - yl mu for anyone to have a well informed opinion on it. I've played top players who had hiim as a low tier, or just played him for fun, but never a dedicated main. I think the same goes for the yl players here.
In my experience it wasn't that hard of a mu, while I'm seeing 65-70 numbers here in favor of yl lol
Yeah I'll probably retract my thoughts about Yoshi until I get to play someone like VMan. Same with Zelda until I **** all the Zelda players at Pound. :p
 

Laijin

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Rhan did a pretty good job at describing each MU, but i'll post where I disagree with him

I don't think there's enough actual playing done in the yoshi - yl mu for anyone to have a well informed opinion on it. I've played top players who had hiim as a low tier, or just played him for fun, but never a dedicated main. I think the same goes for the yl players here.
In my experience it wasn't that hard of a mu, while I'm seeing 65-70 numbers here in favor of yl lol
I have a bit of Yoshi experience. Its pretty old though, but I've played against really good Yoshi mains back in the day and so I base my MU experience off of that. I can't seem to remember the guy's name for the life of me(since it was a few years back), but he was an Atlantic South player.

But yea, 65-70 is pretty accurate.
Why?

Yoshi is really easy character to camp. He doesn't have much for speed going for him in this match up in comparison to YL. Usually if YL can easily out camp a character without much of a problem, he will have a much greater upper hand in the match. Edge guarding Yoshi can be tricky sometimes with his second jump since you can't really knock him out of his recovery, but pretty much playing really safe and out camping is the pure reason why he has such an advantage. Yoshi does fair a lot better on FD since it has no platforms, but its still camp till your heart's content for YL(and we're never content :p)

I do agree we very much need new data on this MU as I have not played a good Yoshi main since like 07 lol, but I still don't really see it changing much. If you want, I would love to hear why the Yoshi's think of this match up and we can talk about it from there.

Against Zelda:
I actually have ton of vs Zelda experience lol. Surprisingly, I've been playing a bunch of good Zelda players over the years(Yea..and I thought they didn't exist either lol). Anyways, this match up goes like this:
Like most match ups, this MU is camp till you drop. Zelda can kill YL pretty easily though and her moves have ton of range(this alone does make the approaching a lot scarier and tips the MU a bit towards her), thankfully though...all her moves are very punishable and she is extremely and can't keep up with YL at all. In this match up, if she plays offensive she doesn't fair to well. YL keeps up the pressure with projectiles.
Her best defense against the projectiles is Nayru's Love. It does a good job at reflecting the bombs right back in his face, however I see that as a gimmick and its pretty easy to bait it and approach differently to where they can't use it in that way. Approaching differently such from above(Z bomb drop, n-air from above, throwing the bomb down), from underneath with u-air(Zelda's best options from being above someone is to NOT be above someone. She doesn't fair to well against approaches from underneath her).
Once off the stage, edge guarding is as easy as drinking a glass of water when your thirsty. ;O

Summary: Zelda has a lot of trouble approaching YL effectively being that shes way too slow, doesn't have good projectiles, and is easy to punish for messing up, while YL can dance circles around her all day long :O. She does fair a bit better on smaller stages such as Yoshi's Story or FoD, but it doesn't make too large of a difference in the MU. Its a solid 60-40 to me, which means in a set its likely to be 2-1

Of course, Jash's style doesn't involve camping at all :p But its a fun set to watch
Jash vs NinjaLink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9qIEA25378

On a side note...
I WANNA MM A DK TOO!!!
 

Zone

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Lol in the Zelda boards IMO young link is 65:35 against Her in young links favor

Hard to catch you little pests
 

rhan

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Hehe, you're gonna get whooped :D
Bet you I won't. I could careless for your money. I want your pride!

Lol in the Zelda boards IMO young link is 65:35 against Her in young links favor

Hard to catch you little pests
No prior knowledge but I would probably have to agree with anywhere between

65 - 35 and 55 - 45.

Though Zelda does have a move that destroys us... Down B is so painful...

Yoshi vs Young Link, is actually sorta fun...(and a hassle) XD i'll post my thought sometime ^^;
You definitely should. It would help me understand the Yoshi players a lot more. I only met one other and he was decent but not godlike.
 

Lordydennek

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I play ylink and yoshi. I have to say at the worst its 60 40 in yls favor. yoshi is much faster than you think and can dodge projectiles when played correctly. also yoshi has excellent smash attacks that have invincibilty on them. he can cc for a looong time. and tbh can edgegaurd ylink better than most chars. also ylink will have a ROUGH time killing yoshi in the air when yoshi is recovering. since yls aerials are pretty weak, cept dair, its gonna be hard to take yoshis 2nd jump till like 150 or more. plus yoshi combo ylink well.

imo id say its 55 45 yls. simply bcuz of the bomb. but i would disagree that its over 60 for ylink.
 

Zone

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Vectorman's yoshi is so ninja, he can throw an egg at you, and when you go to reflect it or powershield it. It hatches out himself (lol wut?) and he DJC nair's you or nuetral B's you.
 

Alphicans

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I think yoshi vs ylink is dead even. Yoshi can go into **** combo mode, kinda like falcon, and don't underestimate his speed, he can close the gap surprisingly fast with his djc shenanigans and wavelands, so sometimes it's hard to predict when he's gonna approach.
 

Caleb Wolfbrand

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YL slight advantage over Yoshi, just by projectiles.

I lived near a dedicated Yoshi main (Yoshido) forever. We did this matchup a ****load. I'm too tired and lazy to post more intelligently. may post later.


... this is TRC for the uninformed
 

rhan

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It's pretty bad. it's all about camping and just being unpredictable. Since most Marth in any match-up just play standard we already know what he has to throw against just. But if we just camp and avoid hits we're bout to bring him down to one stock. Once we're hit though... we're finished..
 

Lordydennek

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agreed. ALWAYS have a bomb on hand. always. theyre your best tool against marth. bomb rang aerial. that's how u build damage up. then juggle with uairs. then run away and space projectiles. you have to wear the marth out. DL RC PS are the best stages. Dk 64 might be good too. ive never played it there. it's winnable on bf but its harder, ys is impossible. fod is also tough. I actually suck against marth on final d. Idk why. I like my platforms. i think its a solid 60 40. but on RC it could be even.
on stage- stay away...far away. use mainly bombs in this mu. platform camp and make sure ur di is spot on. lure him up on a plat jump and zdrop a bomb on him. dj away to rang. then uair him. juggle. then let him land on a plat. bomb rang nair. then eg
eg- zdrop bomb dair or nair over the edge. or just jump out and nair. rang or bomb if he comes in high. dtilt spike or dsmash if u can predict his upb. ftilt or nair if he tries to just get on stage.
recovery- you can sweetspot ur upb out of range of his dtilt and fsmash, if he's to close u can hit him with ur upb. have a bomb on hand to throw at him if ur coming in high. hookshot recover is mostly useless unless u sweetspot. or go low. but its risky. after u get the ledge try to lh a bomb or fair. rang is too slow unless he spaces poorly.

that's my rap. its 6040 if you play it smart. i have more situational combos if anyone wants em. like when to grab and when to cc a dsmash. overall i like this mu on good stages.
 

rhan

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You pretty much got everything for Marth.

But the match-up definitely isn't 40-60. It's like 30-70. lol Young Link is terrible.
 

Lordydennek

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60 40 for sure.
also i did some serious work and my friends falco. I won a few matches and the ones i lost were all one stocks. that mu is not near as bad as fox. considering that my friend is both really good with falco and better than me at the game id say that it means something.

random uairs and uairs oos **** falco. also holding a bomb at all times and throwing it straight up over ur head or z drop is greaaat. once he's on a plat you can rack up sooooo much damage. my strat against sooo many chars is to lure them onto a plat above me then chain bombs and uairs. so ****.

you can gimp falco sooo easily to. one time in particular on dl he landed on a plat, he was at 0, i got him with a bomb. uair. uair. uair. he DIed to the left off the plat toward the edge into my nair. which i shffled into another nair off the edge. dj back and and edge hogged. that was a stock at like 50% for him.

and for some reason i did REALLY well on ys against him. nair oos *****.
 

rhan

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Ya'll are still on crack.

Yoshi's is probably my favorite stage to play against Falco on. He doesn't have much room and platforms help out greatly. Also Flame spiking through the platforms catches everyone off guard.
 

SSBM_Sora

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Ya'll are still on crack.

Yoshi's is probably my favorite stage to play against Falco on. He doesn't have much room and platforms help out greatly. Also Flame spiking through the platforms catches everyone off guard.
Same. Well actually i love playing on Yoshi period.
My favorite stage with Young Link.
 

Lordydennek

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Several of my friends are now admitting that Ylink is the most frustrating character in all of smash. and that several times he has been tempted to sd and end it all. I must be playing correctly :)
 

Lordydennek

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I've also decided that there is no way to win against samus and peach accept camping them and waiting for combos from bombs and rangs. if you attack to early you get cc ***** then killed. Those mus are looong boring matches but they are for sure winnable
 

rhan

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Yes.
Once they start getting pissed off...you're camping correctly. :p
This is true.

I've had a guy (who was playing Sheik at the time) get so pissed that he rage quitted when the stocks were even at 2, switch to Falco, and out camp me.

That was a proud moment.
 

V3ctorMan

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allrite finally.. will make my contributions.. to the Young Link MU chart thread.. (well at least my opinion for Yoshi) I'm sure the other Yoshi players might give their insights too.. Probably when the rest of the community wakes up... i'll post my thoughts on this MU.. ^^

I posted a few videos here ----> of GG7's youngLink http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=106066&page=4

He's, AZ's best Falcon.. and atm Young Link too ^^..
Hope everyone likes the set...

I'll contribute my thoughts soon, and hope everyone... can contribute perhaps with the Yoshi MU too.. if anyone decides to watch them.. ^^

Thanks YLink Boards! <3
 
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