you ungrateful *******s, post here: Lucario General Chat v2

[Timbers]

It seems the staff as a whole is more lax on the idea of general chat within the boards, to help breed conversation and bring a community closer together, so I want to bring Luc chat version 2 to these boards in hopes of sparking activity.

The previous Lucario chat was a great success in regards to activity (I think we pulled something like 2300 posts? I can't remember), and I hope this will bring more activity to the boards. The only thing I would like to keep different is, while this is a general chat, it is a general chat for Lucario.

What's allowed?
-Like, anything lol. smash, stories, pictures, w/e. Just use common sense guys. this is a Lucario chat thread, not a spam thread.

What's gonna get you on my ****list?
-Flaming
-Using this chat for means of raiding other boards or websites
-Being OWA


alternatively you can always go to the #lucario chat on globalgamers.net for more off topic random ****, but I can't guarantee the content in there will always be SFW.



start off:

Luc's aggro game?

There seems to be discussion/debate on whether Luc can really aggro in any of his more important matches. I'm honestly against it, as I can net like, two-hit strings before the opponent is in a position to swat Lucario away due to his less than appealing startup/ending lag on a lot of his moves. It tends to make his game feel more hit and run than aggro to me. I'd like to hear what some people have to say on this.


I'm not the most creative person on the internet so I know this **** is standard and boring so if anyone has anything better to talk about then by all means.

 

[Timbers]

reserved~~

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Brawl is more hit and run than aggro lol.

I do love Lucci's stringing abilities, but he's just not built to go full-on aggro. His ground attacks are slow as hell, he has a mediocre run speed coupled with a godawful grab range, and his approaching aerial is easily outspaced by most of the cast.

And now ladies and gentlemen, Sir Elton John.

 

[Kitamerby]

What's gonna get you on my ****list?
-Being OWA

This made me let loose a hearty chuckle.

Anyways, Luc's aggro game is limited to Fair... Fair... and more Fair. It'll work fine until they realize they can just swat you away like a gnat with one of their ranged attacks.

 

[Browny]

not every characters is packing disjointed attacks to stop fair spam you know lol...
just dont aggro vs mk, ike, marth G&W you should be fine

 

[Alus]

I am so confused...

why is this up again?

 

[Aurasmash14]

so far the only truly aggressive lucario i have seen is azen, and it was unusual as every risk possible he took during his matches just to nail a hit. besides, he's not built to go on a full assault, rather the only time to go aggressive is when there is an opening and even then it shouldnt be pushed too far.

 

[Sawdust]

not every characters is packing disjointed attacks to stop fair spam you know lol...
just dont aggro vs mk, ike, marth G&W you should be fine

I agree entirely. I am not all that good but I beat a really good marth just by being a spammy douche. It makes me feel bad inside, but hey, it works.

 

[phi1ny3]

*knows the conspiracy happening because Timbers likes to be a sad sport*
I'm experimenting, he has things that I think work for him vs. characters who can't always deal with the pressure, the thing with characters like marth is if you do get in, you can't leave any room for punishers like DB to happen, or punish it, basically, I've come to the theoretical conclusion that it requires an unforgivable ability to ignore the margin of error and be able to press, and vs. characters like snake, marth, ROB, and DK, they need that pressure applied if you're going to try aggro. I know I'm taking a risky stand, but I feel if I can get more practice (I might be getting my Wii back soon), and when I start going to more tourneys, I think I'll be able to more effectively put this to rest. I know odds are against it, but I'm tired of the borderline irrational emocarios. Yes, we have weakness, but I don't like the frequent suggestions of "camp lol, that's all you can do" with the frequent "Oh, btw, we don't have great camp tools". I think it's a matter of experimentation, it's a matter of SCIENCE! There's a lot of other character boards that either think lucario is underestimated or overrated, and I'm open to the idea, because I frankly have nothing better to do with the discussion around here (I'm practically coming here only for the matchup discussions and looking, that's it). I'm drawing less on marth since people want me to do more lucario, and seeing if I can apply some of the knowledge I've gained with marth and seeing how lucario fairs (no pun intended, lol).

Edit: btw, I like the idea of this, if we can keep looking "legit", then I think this will work famously.

 

[D. Disciple]

The only true reason why I see many people say to don't go aggro with Lucario is his predictability. Personally an aggro Lucario is pretty fun, even if it is worse the risk. I've been a lot more aggressive with Lucario lately, and it's paying off. Cause even though Lucario's approaches are predictable, knowing when to hit his aura with his fair or his actual body, can make the difference in saying, trying to attack the weak spot of the an opponent's shield so they get hit with a ff nair, that can set into quick jabs, or hitting with the aura, then DI away and shoot a bas as you land, or do ftilts or something to keep them from attacking you.

 

[G-Beast]

im an aggressive Lucario, just so you all know =P

except against Marth... sometimes

 

[D. Disciple]

I'm aggressive against Marth. Just hate his up-b.

 

[Player-4]

I personally like to mix up both styles of aggro and camp at the same time. Not really hard core camp per se but some match ups you need to know when to back off and when to get in someones face. One character I know to get in their face is ZSS, my friend is starting to pick her up and is a much better player then I am and I would play back mostly since I didn't know the match up and would get rocked. Then he told me to play more aggressive since she's all about set ups and it helped me do better. Now as for Marth you really have to bait him with AS and BAS other wise he'll just up-b you if you get in his face. Its really just knowing your opponent and their character and when to play which style. If you play only one style you'll lose. But mixing them is really where Lucario can shine.

I love your avatar Timbers, and is your sig a reference to Jurassic Park?

Also what does "OWA" mean?

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

not every characters is packing disjointed attacks to stop fair spam you know lol...
just dont aggro vs mk, ike, marth G&W you should be fine

Kirby or DDD or DK or Peach or Wolf or Toon Link kinda laugh at fair spam too.

I'm aggressive against Marth.

How?

 

[D. Disciple]

MN fails with Marths. So it's easy for me to be aggressive against them. Not really saying much, but I do tend to get in their face, and grab them out of their dancing blade or whatever.

 

[Kitamerby]

Kirby or DDD or DK or Peach or Wolf or Toon Link kinda laugh at fair spam too.

Don't forget ROB, Ness, Samus, and Snake.

 

[Alus]

EDIT: Kita you're gey...

git back in IRC

EDIT 2: Wow... First time I didnt read a thread in awhile, and now I almost regretted it...

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Don't forget ROB, Ness, Samus, and Snake.

Ness maybe. The rest don't come close.

 

[Timbers]

*knows the conspiracy happening because I know odds are against it, but I'm tired of the borderline irrational emocarios. Yes, we have weakness, but I don't like the frequent suggestions of "camp lol, that's all you can do" with the frequent "Oh, btw, we don't have great camp tools".

Luc does pretty well at camping I think, I just don't like when people are like "spam BAS when you camp" lol. Pocketing full AS and keeping the opponent guessing whether you're going in for an fair or going to retreat and AS their approach is a nice mix up, especially when you have stuff like fsmash and ftilt to help aid you. He's not super amazing at camping, but he does it well.

I'm aggressive against Marth. Just hate his up-b.

There's a lot of things Marth can do to an aerial Luc, somewhere Luc tends to be when aggro lol

I love your avatar Timbers, and is your sig a reference to Jurassic Park?

I'd post the webcomic here if not for language, but yeah snails are pretty BA

and yes

Ness maybe. The rest don't come close.

Snake's utilt and ftilt eat Luc's fairs really easily lol.

Add ZSS into the mix as well. Her dsmash outranges fair and has a large enough hitbox to catch you in the majority of your ascending sh frames, and bair and sideB also outspace the fair.

MK, Snake, Olimar, DK, Marth, Luigi, ZSS, Ness, Peach, Pit, Toon, Wolf are all really hard to get in on with "lol just fair all day."

I'm mixed in throwing GaW in there. His fair is really the only move that scares me when going airborne now. Bair is linear? And has more startup than I originally thought. Just don't go against it if the hitbox is already in it's lingering state. Even if you do get hit by the bair, you can usually SDI out of it within 2-3 hits and score a free dair on him (unless he's retreating during the bair, which isn't entirely effective unless he nabbed you with the very brunt of the move=that'd be super poor spacing) DDD can grab you out of fair if he PS it, but seeing as it's like your best move in this matchup against him, I don't want to talk down on it lol.

I was looking through the last Luc chat thread (2069 posts by the way, yeee) and the closing post:

Time for all y'all to hate me.

We all know that if you're posting in this forum, you most likely have a liking towards Lucario. Since this is Smashboards, not "I LOFF LUCARIO" boards, I'm gonna g'head and close this. I mean, seriously? The current conversation is "If Lucario was in a flaming, speeding bus (full of innocent people) about to fall of the side of a cliff. What would Lucario do to save them all? Or would he save them?"

That's not smash related at all. In fact, there are over 2,000 posts of nonsensical spam in here. So please, keep this forum clean for Smash related content-- as this is SmashBoards. Please don't remake the thread. If you all miss the thread, I invite you to make a Usergroup, and invite all the regulars.

-Xsy

wow it sure is a good thing xsy doesn't hate us now!

I think.

lololo

 

[culexus・wau]

I was looking through the last Luc chat thread (2069 posts by the way, yeee)

I didn't expect any less of us. :3

in regards to the topic: I REALLY don't think Luc's aggro game is any good besides like Fair-> something -> start running away again to try to hit a fair.

because it seems any time Lucario wants to aggro, the 1st move you think about is fair and it gets hellllllla predictable >.>

Although JonT did tell me that Leepuff went Lucario at Backyard and did a pretty good aggro-cario O.o I didn't verify this though.

IN OTHER NEWS.

And I'm doing ones of

*for brrr*

At the moment. you can ask for me to do something but that doesn't mean I'll actually ever do it *unless I like it*

 

[Timbers]

:3 Flame

Also so I'm pretty dumb at getting textures on my wii. What exactly do you have to do to get them? Not make them, just..download I guess.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Blah, you reminded me that I need to update my Brawl+.
What's the easiest way? Last time I tried downloading the file, didn't work. So I tried manually putting in all the codes, and something got messed up, so I really don't feel like doing that again.

 

[G-Beast]

*looks at the title* if someone gives me dah moneeee i will go

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Snake's utilt and ftilt eat Luc's fairs really easily lol.

Add ZSS into the mix as well. Her dsmash outranges fair and has a large enough hitbox to catch you in the majority of your ascending sh frames, and bair and sideB also outspace the fair.

MK, Snake, Olimar, DK, Marth, Luigi, ZSS, Ness, Peach, Pit, Toon, Wolf are all really hard to get in on with "lol just fair all day."

I was thinking about characters who outspace it easily in the air when I didn't mention Snake. But then, I've always been an advocate of outcamping him.

I can honestly say I've never seen a ZSS use dsmash to counter fair though. Maybe the ones I've played have just been doing it wrong but it doesn't sound all that effective... move's not exactly fast.

You sure her bair outranges it too?

 

[Timbers]

Dsmash won't ever be used to actually counter the fair, it's just another move in her arsenal that can really **** you up if you just keep going hurdur fair, and along with the sideB and bair (ye it does outrange fair) it makes it hard to go aggro against her, despite her having quite the mediocre oos game against Luc.

 

[culexus・wau]

:3 Flame

Also so I'm pretty dumb at getting textures on my wii. What exactly do you have to do to get them? Not make them, just..download I guess.

if I just gave you my SD folder and you copied it on to your SD I'm pretty sure that'd work lol.

 

[phi1ny3]

How I see it, we never get past approach, and there's other things that can be done with the fair besides "lol just fair at him". What about the more mindgame options that are available to the rest of the cast, like empty hops and AD? And even if you look at it only through fair, what happens when we actually do get in "the zone" though? I tell you, it's really tough to get in at times, but it seems if you really focus, it can pull through for you.

 

[Browny]

lol if youre going to start saying which characters can outrange fair while not considering the disjoints, you might as well list the entire cast except a few (lucas comes to mind). im quite sure sonic has 2 aerials which outrange the fair. Suddenly the comparisons seem less meaningful...

 

[ckm]

i might be going to genesis.

 

[culexus・wau]

hellllllllllll yessssssssssssssssssssssss

 

[Timbers]

lol if youre going to start saying which characters can outrange fair while not considering the disjoints, you might as well list the entire cast except a few (lucas comes to mind). im quite sure sonic has 2 aerials which outrange the fair. Suddenly the comparisons seem less meaningful...

every character I mentioned either has superior disjointed moves to combat the fair, or it's just hard to land an fair on them without being punished in the shorthop (Oli running usmash, Luigi angled fsmash) or you end up trading hits (nobody cares if they trade hits with Luc's fair lol) or the character simply has more manueverable options or range than you (DK bair, Wolf bair with help of his aerial momentum)

Flame that looks ballin

 

[Browny]

how on earth would you be punished by luigis fsmash after a fair... If he shields it, hes gonna get knocked back due to his traction, and why would you ever be landing a fair right in his face lol. most characters have to act immediately to get a 3-5 frame nair off, i honestly doubt luigi is going to be dropping his shield, and landing a frame 8-9 fsmash (i think thats what it is...). if that was the case, fair would be a completely horrible attack. Think about what youre implying here... half the cast can beat it easily, and everyone has a decent move that comes out in about 10 frames to punish it. Fair isnt THAT bad

btw, wolfs bair isnt necessarily a disjoint, its due to the fact the hitbox extends from release until its maximum length in a single frame. you cant actually hit his hurtbox unless you completely outrange it. very few attacks share this similar trait. Most of MK's do, which is why its so hard to get in his range.

 

[HyperEnergy]

You know, when I go aggro with Lucario, I use fair against opponents in the air, and fast falled retreating bairs against grounded opponents.

Nobody mentions bair as an approach and I personally love it.

 

[Player-4]

I just saw a comment about brawl+... gross

Its all about textures, infinite replays, tags in replays, and music swap. No point in changing game play.

 

[culexus・wau]

I just saw a comment about brawl+... gross

Its all about textures, infinite replays, tags in replays, and music swap. No point in changing game play.

I wish they had SD-loadable custom Music swap

 

[Timbers]

after a fair...

we're not talking about what happens after an fair.


im like all giddy and excited to see how this red panda texture comes out, flame. i know itll look awsum.

 

[Browny]

how is it ever going to get hit by an fsmash though?

fair is at least twice as fast as luigis fsmash. and his ufsmash is only faster/stronger, it doesnt give it a disjoint or range boost or anything

olis usmash i can completely understand coz it has massive invisible hitbox and is fast as hell. in fact id be more worried of luigi using a usmash to stop a fair than his fsmash lol...

 

[Timbers]

angled fsmash still nabs you out of shorthops. Has happened to me before when i become overzealous and try to abuse his low traction. usmash can do the same thing but actually requires luigi to take somewhat of a risk in using it. His fsmash mine as well be completely safe in this matchup lol.

Luigi's fsmash is like 10 frames? Lucario's fair+jump frames are at least that, if not more (Luc's fair is like 6-7 frames alone)

 

[phi1ny3]

I hope we still will keep the other threads going though, like the matchup thread. The main reason I liked this is it promoted at least SWF attendance, and after awhile people got more involved.

 

[Browny]

if luigis fsmash is safe, then his grounded upb is too. theyre basically the same range and upb is faster.

again man, think of what youre implying here. if luigis fsmash is safe, then pretty much every single tilt/ quick smash in the game is now safe vs fair. anything with more range or faster speed, which is A LOT of attacks.

gee even sonic should be able to regularly beat lucarios fair if I just stand still and use an u-ftilt, uptilt or SH fair...