Yoshi vs Ganondorf

[Seba]

I have been playing with my friend Doom for quite a while, he mains Ganondorf, and uses him very well. What do you think of this matchup? I think that Ganondorf is very easily comboed by Yoshi, and that he has a hard time hitting him due to Yoshi's quick Dodge. Ganondorf can easily destroy Yoshi's Second Jump, allowing him to get a low % KO, but I think that edgeguarding Ganondorf is very easy also. I use to spam DTilt, then approach with the FSmash to begin a combo. He often approaches with FSmash, so I think that Ganondorf sometimes is somewhat predictable.

What do you think?

 

[Kitch]

I think you are correct about how ganon is fairly easy to combo as Yoshi, but i have found that the opposite is also true, the ganons i have played can also combo my yoshi fairly well. Its a pretty good match most of the time, but its mostly because the people i play against are all close friends whom i have played numerous times, so we know each others stratagies

 

[rmusgrave]

Ganon is easy to combo, as well as being about as slow and predictable as any character can be.

He has quite a lot on Yoshi, but if you know what you're doing you should be two stocking his Ganon consistently ^_^

 

[Brahma]

If Ganon is just throwing out multiple SHFFL'd F-airs as many Ganon's do, WD back or SH back and use Neutral B to outrange and grab them.

 

[Kitch]

im actually not that good at WD yet, i mean i can do it, i just cant quite work it into my fights yet, and cant quite execute attacks out of it. Its a work in progress, but in the meantime its a fun way to taunt people after killing them, as none of my friends can do it yet

 

[Doubletails]

Ganon can sometimes Chaingrab . I wouldn't give this match to just yet..

Sure, his UpB sucks, but... The DJ sucks against Ganon's Fair or Dair any day of the week.
The name of the game is: Edge(insert techique here)

Edgeguards: It will all depend on his approach.
Ganon's Sweetspotted UpB ---> Instant Edgehog
Ganon's badly Sweetspotted UpB ---> Go for DSmash, preferrable to hit Gannong before he touches any side of the stage. Walltechs are *****es to edgeguard considering 's lag on the Dsmash.
Gannon's UpB going for the stage ---> Nair him.. Sex Kicks are awesome for knocking Gannon back to his effort to return the stage, plus they look flashy. Gannon will eventually try to reach the stage before the edge if he sees you edgeguarding him like the first two choices.

Always stand by the edge before making any edgeguard, react with speed and foresee the UpB's trayectory.. A pike is good every now and then, but do not over use it, for it can be meteor cancelled or wallteched with fair ease.. Bair is a good piker for high percentages, Fair is only recommended when Ganon's far from reaching the stage within a full first-jump distance.

 

[SRMagus]

I throw short eggs to stop a WD approach, then I come in and either swallow/egg him, or get him up in the air with a tilt. Or WD back, throw another egg, rinse repeat. Ganon isn't too bad, since once he's in the air he's essentially losing 40%+ before he comes back down.

 

[mood4food77]

ganon's with experience against yoshi's (my bro uses yoshi as a secondary, teh most technical character he uses) and i **** him, ganon has the easiest time out of any character edgegaurding yoshi because of his strength, it stops yoshi's DJ at low percents, lower than he's used to, and since his dair is also the strongest meteor in teh game by a long shot, it cancels yoshi's DJ at 0%, ganon has an easier time juggling yoshi than yoshi juggles ganon, the ganon can and will move faster than teh yoshi if he's able to, yoshi's best bet is light-shielding mindgames and try not to DJ as much since ganon outprioritizes almost all of yoshi's moves, and ganon in the air isn't a pretty sight since only luigi, jiggs, and peach beat him out in the air with priority, who yoshi also has a tough time with, just be careful playing ganon, his range and power will own you if you're not careful

as this comes from a friendly ganon user

 

[King Kong]

ganon's with experience against yoshi's (my bro uses yoshi as a secondary, teh most technical character he uses) and i **** him, ganon has the easiest time out of any character edgegaurding yoshi because of his strength, it stops yoshi's DJ at low percents, lower than he's used to, and since his dair is also the strongest meteor in teh game by a long shot, it cancels yoshi's DJ at 0%, ganon has an easier time juggling yoshi than yoshi juggles ganon, the ganon can and will move faster than teh yoshi if he's able to, yoshi's best bet is light-shielding mindgames and try not to DJ as much since ganon outprioritizes almost all of yoshi's moves, and ganon in the air isn't a pretty sight since only luigi, jiggs, and peach beat him out in the air with priority, who yoshi also has a tough time with, just be careful playing ganon, his range and power will own you if you're not careful

as this comes from a friendly ganon user

I dont think that Gannon juggles Yoshi better than Yoshi juggles Gannon. Good Yoshis can land 4 or 5 DJC U-airs consecutively if they land a F-air or U-tilt on a heavyweight.

One of Yoshis trump cards in this matchup is the amzing combos he can perform on gannon. My combo game is nothing amazing but even I can combo the **** out of gannon with Yoshi.

I dont think that gannon can move faster than Yoshi either. With DJC aerials and wavedashing Yoshi can be much faster and more manueverable.

I dunno, its just always seemed to be in Yoshis favour to me. I think Bringerofdeath beat CJ's gannon in Europe a while ago but I dont remember fully.

peace out

 

[mood4food77]

ganon can knock out the DJ at 0% with almost all of his moves

i've seen ganons go as fast as yoshis, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, and yes, ganon can land 4-5 uairs on yoshi as well, easier than yoshi can on ganon (yoshi has a harder time following DI than ganon), ganon can jump out of the sheild, yoshi can block grabs, and if you're playing ganon on final, beat the crap outta him, that is ganon's worst stage, watch how fast a ganon moves on dreamland 64, it's pretty dam fast, and yoshi also cannot edgegaurd ganon well, this is one of the worst match-ups for yoshi, if not the worst

 

[King Kong]

ganon can knock out the DJ at 0% with almost all of his moves

i've seen ganons go as fast as yoshis, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, and yes, ganon can land 4-5 uairs on yoshi as well, easier than yoshi can on ganon (yoshi has a harder time following DI than ganon), ganon can jump out of the sheild, yoshi can block grabs, and if you're playing ganon on final, beat the crap outta him, that is ganon's worst stage, watch how fast a ganon moves on dreamland 64, it's pretty dam fast, and yoshi also cannot edgegaurd ganon well, this is one of the worst match-ups for yoshi, if not the worst

Im not sure if your joking or not, so im hesitant to respond.

This is not by any means one of Yoshis worst matchups. How can Gannon move as quickly as Yoshi when Yoshi has faster ground movement, much better aerial manueverability combined with overall less lag on his attacks both grounded and aerial?

Why does Yoshi have a harder time following DI than Gannon? DJC U-airs are hard but Yoshi can combo charcters across FD with them following DI,

Yoshi edgeguards gannon REALLY well.

peace out

 

[mood4food77]

i wasn't kidding, and it seems that most people underestimate teh speed a ganon can have, he can move as fast as sheik, yoshi's uair can be DI'd both ways while ganon's can only be DI'd away from where the foot hits so its' much easier to tell, DJC does have a major downside of accidently missing the stage with it, and ganon can edgegaurd yoshi the best, ganon also has more combo's on yoshi than yoshi has on him, this is strongly in ganon's favor, ganon also has much better recovery and is harder to edgegaurd in this match-up, yoshi's reach is pathetic compared to ganon's also

 

[King Kong]

i wasn't kidding, and it seems that most people underestimate teh speed a ganon can have, he can move as fast as sheik, yoshi's uair can be DI'd both ways while ganon's can only be DI'd away from where the foot hits so its' much easier to tell, DJC does have a major downside of accidently missing the stage with it, and ganon can edgegaurd yoshi the best, ganon also has more combo's on yoshi than yoshi has on him, this is strongly in ganon's favor, ganon also has much better recovery and is harder to edgegaurd in this match-up, yoshi's reach is pathetic compared to ganon's also

I highly doubt that Gannon has more combos on Yoshi than the reverse. I just cant see how this is possible unless Yoshi wasnt Di'ing away from Gannons aerials. Im not sure if you have seen a good Yoshi combo a heavyweight before, its death.

How is gannondorfs recovery better than Yoshi's? If gannon attempts to sweetspot the edge then a single D-tilt will put Gannon too far away to aim for the ledge and an instant edgehog will kill him.

But i can see that we probably wont resolve anything here. All I know is that Bringer told me that Yoshi does really well vs gannon and that he two stocked Captain Jacks gannon when they played.

peace out

 

[rmusgrave]

mood4food77, I understand exactly where you're coming from.

However, Yoshi's comboes are definitely better on Ganon. It's quite hard, as you said, to do the DJC up-air combos on Ganon as he can DI both ways. However, a good enough Yoshi isn't phased by that.

If Ganon is facing towards Yoshi and is in mid-air or is SHFFL happy, then Yoshi can safely approach with b-air. This is because you can get the b-air out way before Ganon's f-air. Yoshi's b-air, at different damages, can combo into up-tilt, f-tilt, up-smash, f-smash, d-smash, up-air, n-air, another b-air, even down B if the DI is right.

If Ganon is facing backwards, Yoshi can just rely on spacing. The b-air only has so much range on it, and as long as Yoshi realises this and uses DJCing and RDJCing to dodge around the b-air approach then Yoshi can start up heaps of combos here too. Also, if Ganon is grounded facing backwards, Yoshi can safely approach his shield.

So yeah. All Yoshi needs to do is approach Ganon while he's grounded facing away (ie inbetween b-airs for his approach etc) or while he's airborne and facing towards Yoshi. As long as Yoshi plays carefully, Yoshi can use his speed and movement to take on Ganon really well.

Basically, Yoshi gets one or two 30-50% combos per stock. He can edgeguard Ganon with d-smash at about 40-50%. What can Ganon do? D-throw combos which can be DI'd and can't be killed with because Yoshi can just DJC through the finishing aerial, throwing out aerials as approaches and hoping Yoshi doesn't dodge around it and punish or go in before your aerial's wound itself up and b-aired or n-aired or dash attacked you.

Ganon doesn't have enough options to win this matchup. However, because he can edgeguard Yoshi (assuming he is smart enough to mix up his edgeguard so it isn't just beaten by a mid-air dodge) this match isn't ownage in Yoshi's favour.

Unfortunately I can't say I beat any good Ganondorf's in a tournament match. What I can say, though, is that I beat Europe's best Ganon 9/10 times, and I beat Captain Jack's Ganon every time, sometimes 2 stocking it. We definitely know Captain Jack isn't stupid and his Ganon is really good, but I found that because I knew exactly when to mid-air dodge, he had a lot of trouble edgeguarding me. Other characters are better at it because they can get further off the edge or below the edge to break Yoshi'd double jump than Ganon.

So yeah. In general, Yoshi should live longer than Ganon. If your bro doesn't, then he doesn't have enough Yoshi experience and needs to learn to avoid edgeguarding more.

 

[leviathan_]

If Ganon is just throwing out multiple SHFFL'd F-airs as many Ganon's do, WD back or SH back and use Neutral B to outrange and grab them.

Well, we're assuming the Ganondorf that the topic creator is playing against is a 'good' Ganon, so I'm assuming that this Ganon throws in many more Uairs than Fairs. Ganon's Uair is probably Top 3 in the rangeist (excuse this false word lol) move in the entire game. Reverse Uairs kill Yoshi when used as an edgeguarding tool. Uairs also juggle Yoshi very well too. I think you should tell us more about your Ganon, Seba.

 

[Seba]

He has a video on You Tube from a Tournament. I will put the link here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNlu4j_3xSY

That tournament was on July 15th, but I think it will be of some use.

He is not versing me in that vid by the way.

There is a more recent video of him (October 16th) fighting a Peach user in a Tournament, but he gets *****. I have taped matches vs him, but I don´t know how to bring them to my PC (my camera is not digital).

 

[mood4food77]

it could be my skill level is much greater than my bro's (i've 4 stocked his sheik with pretty much everyone), and he'll get me into a few juggles here and there, but they don't last long, and i'll get him with 5 uairs in a row almost always resulting in death beacause i'll knock him out of his DJ or he'll try to come back, i'll fake him, he'll air dodge and then i'll hit him back with something, yoshi's combo's don't last as long as ganon's, and who says ganon need throw combo's, dtilt to uair works until i think 80%, it also could be stage dependent, on FD, yoshi's island, FoD could be in yoshi's favor while the rest are in ganon's, i know Dreamland is definitely ganon's stage (his match-ups improve by a lot there), i don't know, there aren't many, if any besides my bro, around me who have a decent yoshi (happy he plays yoshi, i know how to fight one), so i guess it can be slightly in ganon's favor overall (based on all stages)

 

[Rob_Gambino]

Once Yoshi is off the stage, it is very difficult for him to recover, same with ganon though. The yoshi has to use his speed to his advantage. B-air and d-tilt a lot. Do not even bother crouch cancelling, cuz even his jab will move you too far away many times. If you're hit in the air, be scared.

 

[Peeze]

Yeah maybe I'm the only one here that thinks this, but no Yoshi can beat Ganondorf. I mean, Yoshi has good comboability, but he's just not on the same level as G-dorf. Ganondorf has more power, you guys say he's slow but used correctly he's fast enough to outplay Yoshi. Most people assume he's slow because of his running speed, but his attack power/speed outmatches yoshi's.
eh...whatever.

 

[rmusgrave]

And most people underestimate Yoshi too.

As I said earlier, I've played against the best Ganon in Europe, and against Captain Jack's Ganon. My Yoshi consistently beat both of them, and neither of them are slow players.

Many Ganondorf players say 'Ganon isnt slow, hes got a lot of speed and can do a lot of quick stuff'. Yes thats true, but what you have to realise is that characters like Fox/Falco/Sheik etc are fast. Ganondorf, no matter how you put it, is slower than most of the characters in this game. Yoshi included.

 

[mood4food77]

ganon can move as fast as anyone except falcon, fox, falco and ness, platform dashing doubles ganon's speed, i have nothing against, he's one of the 3 characters i can't use (peach and samus are the otehr two), but ganon can move fast, his start up time for his moves is overall less than yoshi's, same with his lag, he can also jump out of teh sheild unlike yoshi, ganon is heavier than yoshi (in NTSC) and has much better recovery than yoshi, and ganon can recover from yoshi's dtilt, i've done it many times before

 

[King Kong]

ganon can move as fast as anyone except falcon, fox, falco and ness, platform dashing doubles ganon's speed, i have nothing against, he's one of the 3 characters i can't use (peach and samus are the otehr two), but ganon can move fast, his start up time for his moves is overall less than yoshi's, same with his lag, he can also jump out of teh sheild unlike yoshi, ganon is heavier than yoshi (in NTSC) and has much better recovery than yoshi, and ganon can recover from yoshi's dtilt, i've done it many times before

Gannon can only recover from a D-tilt if you didnt try to sweetspot the ledge. If you tried to sweetspot then D-tilt into instant edgehog will kill Gannon and C-falcon.

I just cant see how Yoshi is slower. Unless you havnt seen a Yoshi use DJC, that makes Yoshi move REALLY fast combined with a much bigger wavedash and a faster running speed - in what sense is gannon faster?

Go and watch a vid of Fumi then compare that to any Gannondorf - the difference is immediatly apparant.

I dont even see how speed is all that important in this matchuo myself

peace out

 

[Lixivium]

Ganon is definitely NOT faster than Yoshi.

Ganon relies on spacing, not speed, to win matchups. The key to beating Ganon is to get inside his range and interrupt his aerials, because once that F-Air/Up-Air/B-Air comes out there is no getting through it (unless you're Marth).

I play Ganon against a Yoshi and believe me, Yoshi can be fast enough to do just that - get inside Ganon's effective range and combo him til the cows come home.

 

[rmusgrave]

KK, the d-tilt isn't an instant kill on Ganon like it is on Falcon. With a little DI and timing, Ganon can go high enough to be about upsmash height over you.

Yoshi has every advantage Peach has over Ganon. The only real exception to this is that eggs aren't quite as good as turnips assuming Yoshi's not edge egging.

 

[Peeze]

I think Yoshi has a lot more advantages over ganondorf, and Yoshi is overlooked, but so is Ganondorf. Sure he excels more at aerials, but he has better tilts than Yoshi as well, and (properly timed) Yoshi long lag time after smashes and grabs can be punished severly with a proper rd/wd and a Ftilt/Fsamsh/Dsmash/Dair/Fair/bair/>b followed by ^smash or ^b/ wizards foot/ should I continue?

 

[mood4food77]

ganon has the advantage on peach on a platform stage, uair ***** her

yoshi probably does better on ganon than peach does but if he does, it's probably very slight, if seba kept fighting the yoshi on FD, then i could see the problems since ganon's uair is nowhere near as useful, but on a platform, if ganon can stay underneath the yoshi (or any of his opponents) for most of the match, ganon will have a much easier shot at winning, the only reason why fast-fallers give him a problem because they barely go up and allow him to continue his juggle, yoshi's semi-floaty, ganon can get a few uairs before yoshi can reach the ground, the yoshi must stay on the same level as ganon as much as possible, stay on him for as long as he can (thank god ganon has the standing a) and deal as much as he can, since ganon has the 4th best recovery in the game (you're probably thinking i'm mad but what i mean is that when hit off the stage, ganon will come back better than any character except jiggs, peach, and samus (in no order) overall, and when edgegaurded, he'll come back than most of the characters as well), yoshi cannot go off the ledge or he's done (dair stops yoshi at 0%, so does nair if both hit), so on final, yoshi will have the advantage, if on other stages, ganon will as long as he's under yoshi for most of the match, so if you're yoshi can stay on top of ganon, you'll have a better shot at winning

 

[Doubletails]

I guess it all goes to whoever gays the opponent first, again..

If this means who can exploit his own advantages first. >_>

 

[mood4food77]

well, yoshi nor ganon are considered "gay" because they don't have one thing that makes them "gay", it all depends on the yoshi, if he can stay on the ground or not

 

[rmusgrave]

Ganon wins if Yoshi's above him. Yoshi wins if Ganon's above him. That we've sorted out.

Yoshi's moves for launching people into the air -
Down throw; up throw; f-tilt; up-tilt; up-smash; f-air; b-air; up-air; egg toss; down b; neutral b.

Ganon's moves for launching people into the air -
Upthrow; upsmash; forward b, d-air...

Help me out here?

I know Ganon has a lot of moves that hit Yoshi across and up, but he doesn't really have that many moves for launching into juggles. As far as I can tell, if Yoshi stays grounded as much as possible, and only lets himself be open to moves that hit Yoshi away (i.e. so he can't be comboed) then Ganon's only option is to try and make it a game of trading hits.

I guess the difference comes down to Yoshi having better launching moves for combos and getting Ganon above him. It's the same thing with the Peach matchup for Ganon, except that you can launch Peach better with moves like downthrow to forward B etc.

Advantage overall to Yoshi ^_^. (My opinion only, but you'll have to find someone who can beat my Yoshi with Ganon to make me think otherwise... and unfortunately Australia doesn't have any notable Ganondorfs.)

 

[_Riot_]

I see what alot of the Yoshi players are saying but being a Ganon player myself i can agree with alot of what Mood is saying for instance combo potential.....yes yoshi can get in a bigger string combo than ganon can on yoshi however even if ganon lands something as easy as a 3 hit combo it racks up more damage than a yoshi 5 hit combo (he doesnt have the tri-force of power for nothing heh) as well as recovery yes ganons Up-b is slow and predictable as hell however down-B gives him his jump back and if you play ganon with a recovery like his you better **** well know how to tech the ledge. say if yoshi is sitting there crotching about the throw his down-tilt wall jump tech >> back air and he'll be no where close to throw another down tilt. in yoshis defense i dont know **** near any yoshi players but ive watched to many videos of them to not know what potential yoshi has i think its an amazing interesting character. looking at just what yoshi can do im sure a seasoned yoshi can punish the hell out of certain things. all in all though id say ganon > yoshi but not by much

 

[D1]

IMO Yoshi>>>Ganon for the simple fact that whenever I see Ganon go in the air I just bair him before his fair comes out. If his back is turned I stay away from the bair spam as it comes out faster.

IMO Ganon isn't that scary w/ Yoshi unless the Ganon gets in a grab (which is rare unless u block alot-which u shouldn't be doing) Also random DownBs are easy prey to Yoshi's running dsmash after blockin it of course.

I remember first time I played RockCrock's Ganon like all I did in our matches was stand backwards and bait him to try to fair me, the moment I saw him in the air I just jumped hin his face and baired cuz u know most Ganon's just LOVE FAIR spam. As a result he repeatedly got 2-3 stocked.

I dunno if this was stated before but Yoshi could just destroy Ganon's recovery so much dair off the stage, dtilt, dsmash, even downangled fsmashes (my personal fave *credit to Gabe*). Lol to even be cute try jabbing him outta his up B

But yeah personally I think Ganon sucks against Yoshi and Yoshi doesn't even need a cheap grab game like Shiek to own Ganon. : P

 

[_Riot_]

hahahahah no offense but if your judging it by your experience with RockCrock his ganon isnt that creditable dont get me wrong hes an excellent player just not with ganon. If you got close to beating someone like Tipman then id have a change of heart . If i recall i remember seeing you at MLG orlando and you mained fox not yoshi...

 

[mood4food77]

D1, you're a fox, you played bailey the last time i went to a gauntlet, you guys were close, my ganon wasn't as good then as it is now

what i meant by ganon being below his opponent is including with platforms, especially dreamland, platform dashing will make him faster than yoshi, also doubles the amount of mindgames he can perform since he has the best platform dash in the game, once yoshi is above him, he better get his @$$ down to the ground if he wants to live longer, ganon is like a shadow, yes he seems slow, but he'll come at you faster than you expect, sometimes it even shocks me how fast he'll get there, he'll just come out of nowhere and hit you with the uair before you realize it, as for vertical launchers, ganon has more useful ones

ganon has dtilt, dsmash, dair, dthrow, uthrow
yoshi has dthrow, utilt, fair

ganon's grab is way better than yoshi's, ganon's dthrow can lead to almost anything, and yoshi's fair is much more predictable than all of ganon's vertical launchers

but ganon doesn't need them, he needs platforms, he'll wait for that opening and own you, peaches hate fighting ganons because ganon abuses the hell out of a missed dsmash by peach and does it better than anyone else, now yoshi and peach may not be similar in anyway, but yoshi must be careful, if you look at ganon's worst match-ups, especially sheik, what do they all have in common, the same thing ganon has, a counter attack, like ganon's thunder punch, sheik, fox, falco, and falcon all have a move that can miss and then hit ganon before ganon has a chance to go in, yoshi does not have one sadly and has to work on his mindgames and making ganon miss since it's rare to survive to 100% against ganon, so your objective as a yoshi is to fool ganon as much as possible so he leaves an opening for your @$$ kicking, if not, yoshi will get his @$$ kicked, so it's basically who can hit who kind of fight, or a "make you miss" contest but i'll still go in favor of ganon since his overall lag is slightly lower than yoshi's (in the moves that they primarily use)

 

[rmusgrave]

since it's rare to survive to 100% against ganon

I survive longer against Ganon than Ganon survives against me. I can avoid edgeguards most of the time, so Ganon has real trouble killing my Yoshi. Ganon also has trouble landing KO moves against my Yoshi. And (sorry to keep pulling this card out) against Captain Jack's and Faab's Ganondorf's, I would survive to 160% at least every stock unless I made a stupid mistake with a DJC which would kill me at 40+%.


Yoshi has a very good platform dash also. I don't see how Ganon's is any better. Platform dashing increases Ganon's speed quite a lot, but it also improves Yoshi's speed, so I don't see how platform dashing exclusively increases Ganon's speed to being faster than Yoshi.


I'm interested to know why you omitted the rest of the launchers I mentioned a couple of posts before yours. I genuinely couldn't remember all of Ganon's launchers, you had all of Yoshi's right in front of you. At any rate - dtilt is easily DI'd out of Ganons reach; dsmash doesn't combo if Yoshi CC's it (I doubt Yoshi will get hit by the 2nd hit of it that easily); dair is quite a good and powerful launcher albeit hard to land on a grounded opponent; dthrow can be DI'd to minimise combos, and Yoshi can DJC through quite a few of Ganon's combos.

Yoshi's fair is as slow and predictable as Ganon's. Ganon can SH fair, SH fakeout DJ fair, SH fade back fair, platform dash to fair. Yoshi can do all of this, plus he can also DJC and RDJC to evade and retaliate while airborne, which is something Ganon lacks without a platform. But anyway, fair isn't Yoshi's only option for approaching Ganon, nor is it his best.


Yoshi may have a lot of lag on moves like f-air, but even so it's pretty difficult to shieldgrab a good Yoshi. Moves like Yoshi's uptilt or ftilt come out faster than Ganons shieldgrab if you factor in shieldlag, and these lead to some awesome combos. We both know that if Yoshi can nullify Ganon's shieldgrab/shield retaliation game then it takes a lot out of him as a character. I know Yoshi can't do it as well as someone like Fox, but for the most part I never find grabs a problem with Yoshi against Ganon any more than other characters like Peach or Link. Yoshi gets shieldgrabbed quite a few times in matches, but he also quite often punishes a shieldgrab attempt with a 40%+ combo so it usually evens out.

In the end, Ganon = a slow (read: slower than any fast) Sheik or an easy to combo Doctor Mario. In both of these matchups, which Yoshi loses for the most part, the tough part of the matchups is not there for Ganon. And assuming Yoshi can DI well and avoid edgeguards, he should survive longer than Ganon. I can't see how Ganon wins this, but I also haven't played any of the good Ganon specialists other than Faab, so... yeah. Obviously you haven't played against some of the best Yoshi specialists like me, Svampen or Fumi, so lets leave it at 'agree to disagree' until we can organise something like that which will probably never happen.

^_^

 

[_Riot_]

Fumi = Japan
Bringer of Death = Australia
Svampen = im guessing somewhere in Europe?

All specialized Ganon mains i trust to do this battle = USA

so in the end this all comes down to words of opinion ;_;

 

[wuthefwasthat]

svampen is swedish i think

same country as EK maybe

good ganons should be able to space nairs yoshi out of djced attacks yeah?
but then... good yoshis should spam crouch canceling dtilts and eggs and whatever... i think

 

[mood4food77]

ganon's uair after a platform dash is a scary site, ganon's fair is way faster than yoshi's, and he doesn't make a sound or a grunt like yoshi, ganon's dsmash usually doesn't hit with the first, it hits with the second, try CC that when you don't expect it, platform dashing for ganon is better than everyone else, no one has a moveset that benifits from it like ganon, i've never seen a yoshi survie as long as ganon in a match, and since when does CC exist on a ganon, ganon can move as fast as a sheik, it may not seem like it but if given enough time, the ganon will work up his speed, maybe not running, but pulling off attacks and damage it will (i started off only pulling off 20% juggles on my friend today then later in teh same match i gave him a zero to 100% juggle and killed him, he was sheik, i almost beat him, he had like 70% with one stock) and yoshi is easier to juggle than sheik for ganon, sheildgrabbing is also pretty much taken out when against ganon, his standing a comes out faster than every grab in the game, ganon does have less lag than yoshi does also, especially in the air, sheild grabbing a yoshi is easier than sheild grabbing a ganon

i still don't see how yoshi has the advantage, every yoshi i've seen face a ganon has been *****...horribly

 

[Shiri]

I took Eddie to last match, last stock, and a pretty **** high percent at FC.

And I suck. No, seriously. I suck.

GG.

 

[Bloshi]

I took Eddie to last match, last stock, and a pretty **** high percent at FC.

And I suck. No, seriously. I suck.

GG.

Um wow. Either he was sandbagging or it is gg.

 

[Peeze]

Yoshi's advantage comes in his speed and range, however a person who knows what they are doing can handle him no problem with WD's/RD's and mindgames work to take advantage of Yoshi's hoorrible lag time.