Yoshi vs Ganondorf

[Straight]

Ganon's too good

 

[King Kong]

ganon's uair after a platform dash is a scary site, ganon's fair is way faster than yoshi's, and he doesn't make a sound or a grunt like yoshi, ganon's dsmash usually doesn't hit with the first, it hits with the second, try CC that when you don't expect it, platform dashing for ganon is better than everyone else, no one has a moveset that benifits from it like ganon, i've never seen a yoshi survie as long as ganon in a match, and since when does CC exist on a ganon, ganon can move as fast as a sheik, it may not seem like it but if given enough time, the ganon will work up his speed, maybe not running, but pulling off attacks and damage it will (i started off only pulling off 20% juggles on my friend today then later in teh same match i gave him a zero to 100% juggle and killed him, he was sheik, i almost beat him, he had like 70% with one stock) and yoshi is easier to juggle than sheik for ganon, sheildgrabbing is also pretty much taken out when against ganon, his standing a comes out faster than every grab in the game, ganon does have less lag than yoshi does also, especially in the air, sheild grabbing a yoshi is easier than sheild grabbing a ganon

i still don't see how yoshi has the advantage, every yoshi i've seen face a ganon has been *****...horribly

Yoshis in the U.S dont play the same as Japan/Europe/Aus Yoshis. The difference between them is glaring so i highly doubt the Yoshis you play or have seen are anything like Fumis or Svampens, with that in mind i dont think that the matches that you have with your friends are any real indication of this matchup.

I for one will take bringers arguments, he has valid points and is using his experiences against TOP LEVEL players like Captain Jack to back up his reasoning, not just matches against his friends like you do.

peace out

 

[_Riot_]

he's also using his defense against a player who doesnt main ganon. im sorry again good player but if you dont main ganon you cant pull out the full potential just like every other character. thats like me saying i beat Ken's Yoshi with my ganon just because everyone knows who ken is, point being he doesnt main yoshi so who the hell cares if i beat it.

 

[rmusgrave]

That's a little bit of a misnomer. Ken can't play Yoshi as far as I know. Captain Jack can play Ganon. Have you ever seen him do the Bowser challenge? How about his matches against Chu Dat's IC's back at TG6?

Maybe if you said Chu's or Azen's Yoshi I might have let it slide =P

 

[Rob_Gambino]

Chu's Yoshi is not that good; it barely beat mine in a tourney match, lolz.

 

[_Riot_]

i was just making a point... ive never versed Ken in general

 

[D1]

Uh mood4food wayyy back then I wasn't using Yoshi as a main >_> during Gauntlet...

so yeah if anything why not moneymatch my Yoshi vs. ur Ganon 10 bucks ^_^.

 

[Seba]

Thanks for your post, guys.

I have faced a lot of Ganondorfs during my career, they were all good, and I was able to beat them all. I'm still undefeated against Ganondorf, so I have always had the thought that Yoshi had the advantage in this matchup. However, I use Ganondorf as well, and I have not lose as him against a Yoshi yet, so now I'm not that sure. If this matchup were in Ganondorf's favor, I don't think it would be enough to counter Yoshi (al least a good one). In my opinion, Yoshi's worst matchups are Peach, Sheik, Fox, Falco and maybe Jigglypuff.

I'm from Chile, so getting a match with a USA Ganondorf would be impossible for me

 

[Bloshi]

Hey guys which way should I DI Ganon's d-throw? If I go forward the chain continues, if I go backwards I get baired.

 

[_Riot_]

Hey guys which way should I DI Ganon's d-throw? If I go forward the chain continues, if I go backwards I get baired.

thats pretty much how it goes, wisest choice is to instictively DI backwards.

 

[rmusgrave]

At low % DI behind, as it reduces combo damage.

At high % DI in front, because it's more likely to save your life (f-air takes too long to come out and you can DJC it to save your life, up-air is weaker than b-air.) Only time DIing behind is better is if you're on the side of a level and the up-air would kill you.

 

[_Riot_]

At low % DI behind, as it reduces combo damage.

At high % DI in front, because it's more likely to save your life (f-air takes too long to come out and you can DJC it to save your life, up-air is weaker than b-air.) Only time DIing behind is better is if you're on the side of a level and the up-air would kill you.

hmmm, that works til about 120% in our version i dont know how it is in PAL what is different about yoshi from our version to yours anyway? Regardless after that if you get grabbed your eatting a F-air or a B-air.

 

[rmusgrave]

You may be eating a F-air, but F-air's startup time is too long. There is enough time between when you get thrown, and when Ganon's F-air comes out to start the double jump.

I may be overstating the effect of DIing this way, but that's because I've done this matchup a lot on DL64, and Yoshi survives to ridiculous percentages against Ganondorf if you're not stupid enough to get caught with a f-air out of the blue.

 

[technomancer]

My two cents would be that Ganon can't really hit a Yoshi that doesn't want to be hit. His forward air has godawful windup. Any sheild pressure the G-man tries to put on can be broken by lightshielding. Dorf doesn't have a very good tech-chase on Yoshi if Yoshi techs alot of his stuff away, and Dorf doesn't manuver aerially nearly as well as Yoshi. If Ganon tries to space, Yoshi can F-smash; if Ganon tries to go through the Yoshi, he can either be U-smashed or spotdodged into a d-tilt. Yoshi's not going to just be SHFFLing attacks, he's going to the most part be sticking to the ground.

As far as KOs go, Yoshi's edgeguarding game rivals Fox, Sheik, and Marth's against Ganon; he can just keep hitting him off with low trajectory moves for as long as it takes, can deal well with edgetechs, and can gimp Ganon fairly well with spikes. Ganon, on the other hand, basically has to jump out and land an aerial on Yoshi, which is pretty much obvious and easy to dodge. Yoshi's get practice against that sort of stuff with every character, and airdodging is a valid solution. Weight-wise, the two are similar, but Yoshi can build damage better than Ganon can using just eggs and D-tilt, and can also build alot of damage in an edge fight. Also, Ganon's attacks have more freezeframes making them easier to DI, and Bringer is right, unless you're on Yoshi's Story, Yoshi can live to 160%+, and repeatedly regain the stage, where Ganon cannot.

Summary: Basically the match has Ganon fighting for his hits, and a patient Yoshi can just camp him all day. Also, as far as edgeguarding goes, you think that Yoshi's just jump back on the stage?

Stage-wise, Yoshi has the advantage on 3 neutral stages (Fountain, Yoshi's, and Battlefield), because he can gimp better on tight stages as well as upsmash through the platforms, while Ganon only has the advantage on one (Pokemon Stadium). Final Destination is debatable, because Ganon can camp there quite well, but Yoshi has the projectile, so he doesn't have to respond, and Dreamland is pretty much equal due to their high weights an good distance recoveries. As far as counterpicks go, Mute City might be a good option for Ganon, considering it's middling ceiling, he can more easily KO with the stomp, and is harder to edgeguard, and Corneria might offer the same benefits while cramping Yoshi behind the fin.

I'd give it 7-3 Yoshi.

 

[_Riot_]

My two cents would be that Ganon can't really hit a Yoshi that doesn't want to be hit. His forward air has godawful windup. Any sheild pressure the G-man tries to put on can be broken by lightshielding. Dorf doesn't have a very good tech-chase on Yoshi if Yoshi techs alot of his stuff away, and Dorf doesn't manuver aerially nearly as well as Yoshi. If Ganon tries to space, Yoshi can F-smash; if Ganon tries to go through the Yoshi, he can either be U-smashed or spotdodged into a d-tilt. Yoshi's not going to just be SHFFLing attacks, he's going to the most part be sticking to the ground.

As far as KOs go, Yoshi's edgeguarding game rivals Fox, Sheik, and Marth's against Ganon; he can just keep hitting him off with low trajectory moves for as long as it takes, can deal well with edgetechs, and can gimp Ganon fairly well with spikes. Ganon, on the other hand, basically has to jump out and land an aerial on Yoshi, which is pretty much obvious and easy to dodge. Yoshi's get practice against that sort of stuff with every character, and airdodging is a valid solution. Weight-wise, the two are similar, but Yoshi can build damage better than Ganon can using just eggs and D-tilt, and can also build alot of damage in an edge fight. Also, Ganon's attacks have more freezeframes making them easier to DI, and Bringer is right, unless you're on Yoshi's Story, Yoshi can live to 160%+, and repeatedly regain the stage, where Ganon cannot.

Summary: Basically the match has Ganon fighting for his hits, and a patient Yoshi can just camp him all day. Also, as far as edgeguarding goes, you think that Yoshi's just jump back on the stage?

Stage-wise, Yoshi has the advantage on 3 neutral stages (Fountain, Yoshi's, and Battlefield), because he can gimp better on tight stages as well as upsmash through the platforms, while Ganon only has the advantage on one (Pokemon Stadium). Final Destination is debatable, because Ganon can camp there quite well, but Yoshi has the projectile, so he doesn't have to respond, and Dreamland is pretty much equal due to their high weights an good distance recoveries. As far as counterpicks go, Mute City might be a good option for Ganon, considering it's middling ceiling, he can more easily KO with the stomp, and is harder to edgeguard, and Corneria might offer the same benefits while cramping Yoshi behind the fin.

I'd give it 7-3 Yoshi.

hmmm, i like it, i wish i could actually do that match with a respectable yoshi though

one thing i dont agree with though is the subject of yoshi having an advantage on battlefield Thomas Tipman has shown me to many times how thats Ganons playground, and since then ive counter pick that on any character that isnt Fox (i take them to brinstar)

 

[technomancer]

The big thing there is Yoshi's U-smash goes just through the platform, so if Ganon tries to platform dash too much, Yoshi can just start U-smashing and mess him up. Usmash combos OK on Ganon, so this can really hurt a Tipman style GD.

Not that I could beat Tipman. And yeah, brinstar is probably a great counterpick against Yoshi, cuz he has to go to the air alot.

Rethinking it, I think Yoshi would win more sets than GD, but individual matches are probably only 6-4 and are pretty stage dependant, depending on the Dorf's mindgames.

 

[rmusgrave]

Good luck landing an upsmash through the platform on BF. It's practically impossible, even when punishing a d-smashing Peach. Gimme DL64 against Ganon anyday.

 

[technomancer]

And as far as DIing ganon's dthrow, try to DI it just slightly forwards and sex kick (or better: U-air) out, this is what's most likely to mess up Ganon's combo. You can do diagonal up forwards, though the up doesn't count, I think you still get less forward momentum.

This isn't an every time thing, it's more of a mindgame. I got the idea from Magus' CGing guide

 

[park5150]

whoa...now I know what ganon can do to me. I never played a good ganon before...

 

[Broken_HitBox]

well i main ganon and my bro uses yoshi and from what ive learned yoshi can **** ganon with massive combos but its hard to finish im off if the ganon swee spots because dsmash and D tilt can easily be teched and you could be thrown off guard so jsut try and force them to not sweet spot and then Fsmash then would be a good thing