Yoshi Vs Bowser

[Shiri]

The main points for this thread have actually been covered.

The problem here is that while Yoshi wins this matchup statistically, Bowser players who actually main Bowser and play him competitively are fairly smart; Yoshi players (from what I've seen) thrive and dominate players who do not think. This creates a fundamental problem for Yoshi, so the matchup has to be approached very cautiously.

I could make my usual page-and-a-half long post, but I'll cut it down to one main point for now. Yoshi can not only avoid losing this matchup, but also come as close to a guaranteed win as he can get if he follows one fundamental rule of Super Smash Brothers: Melee that nobody seems to remember. Do not hit shields. This is a fundamental rule of the game that will actually give Yoshi not exactly an upper hand...but something equivalent to...NOT A LOWER HAND, I guess. That was a bit awkward, but I'm sure I got my point across.

And please try to get along on the Yoshi boards. You guys are free to disagree, but keep the ad hominem in the other character specifics, please. ^_^

 

[Saur]

I'm starting to throw out neutral B more often in my matches. SH egg lay, DJC egg lay, RDJC egg lay, wave dash back to egg lay... If I'm unpredictable enough with it (ie: don't SPAM it), my opponent gets more cautious with his shield in general.

Having said that, egg laying off the edge I feel is best used only once per person per year. Everyone seems to fall for it at least once, which is always funny. Now that I think of it, we should have a champ-combo-like dis to go along with successful edge-lays (as I'll call them). Maybe we could point at the opponent and yell NYAM (tongue noise)?

But I digress. Point is: the edge-lay isn't really a reliable match-long strategy. Unless the the lickee has trouble breaking out of the egg. But all lickees soon learn to escape fast, unfortunately -_-

Personally, I fear Bowsers ftilt edgeguards too much to edge-lay him. That's just me, though.

So yeah... who's with me on the "NYAM!"?

 

[Shiri]

Egg Lay should always be followed up with a taunt. You truly can't get any better than that.

By the way, the only reason I don't like Egg Laying Bowser is because I think Yoshi's attacks do half-damage while his victims are in the egg, and Bowser's aerials out of the egg are way too good. If I do manage to get him in an egg, I would seriously walk away and taunt, as it's probably better for me later on down the road than for an immediate 5%-10% in damage and risk eating a neutral or forward air.

Egg Laying off the stage against Bowser is a bad idea. Period. Sorry.

 

[UltimateBowser]

Well, thats fine. I don't care if anyone uses it, I was just offering a suggestion to the guy that started the thread in the first place. It is a risky move to use. Definitely not for the faint of heart. And I wasn't saying to make it your entire game, either.

Oh, and Lixivium, go into training mode and try it. It is possible to jump after doing the egg lay

 

[th0rn]

The main points for this thread have actually been covered.

The problem here is that while Yoshi wins this matchup statistically, Bowser players who actually main Bowser and play him competitively are fairly smart; Yoshi players (from what I've seen) thrive and dominate players who do not think. This creates a fundamental problem for Yoshi, so the matchup has to be approached very cautiously.

A player who doesn't think is a noob.

one fundamental rule of Super Smash Brothers: Melee that nobody seems to remember. Do not hit shields.

You must not play fox and falco.

 

[Shiri]

I play plenty of both Fox and Falco. The principle still stands.

Just because their anti-shield games are broken doesn't mean it's still a good idea for characters like Yoshi, who don't have the best move in the game come out instantaneously. >_>

And yes, players who don't think are noobs. I think that statement kind of explained itself. >_>;

 

[th0rn]

:I play plenty of both Fox and Falco. The principle still stands

ok sorry,I meant, your falco and fox must be bad.. if you never pillar/shine them in their shield, going against that principle. You said it's a principle for ssbm, for the game itself.

Yoshi players (from what I've seen) thrive and dominate players who do not think.

I think that statement kind of explained itself.

Anyway, on topic. Imo, if the players are equal in skill, the yoshi should win. Unless the yoshi has no bowser experience what so ever.

 

[Shiri]

Well, it seems as though we've misunderstood each other or I failed in getting my point across...

...but thanks for agreeing to disagree. Most posters from other boards aren't considerate enough to do that. And yeah, he's right--Yoshi wins with a good amount of Bowser experience. It can still be a pretty tough match, though.

 

[rmusgrave]

Ultimate Bowser, I think what you're missing in that strategy, is that even if somehow the Yoshi player managed to land such a ridiculously difficult to land move, then fall down with the combined weight to the bottom of his double jump height from the edge, the Bowser could still recover. If he breaks out at the top of the Bowser egg trajectory, gets a little vertical boost from breaking out, then jumps, then up-b's, then he can make it.

And if somehow I'm wrong, and he can't make it, he can rise quick enough to hit Yoshi with the strong hit of his up-B and break Yoshi's double jump, dooming Yoshi too. Not a very useful strategy.

Yoshi can dominate thinking players too! It tends to be that Yoshi dominates players with little to no Yoshi experience (ie everyone except people in a select few crews).

But then, who cares who Yoshi dominates when the Yoshi player has some sort of advantage over the opponent? This forum is about character matchups! ^_^

 

[UltimateBowser]

Hmm, its actually been a while since I was in the situation, but now that I think about it you are at least partially right. While it is possible to get Bowser low enough that he can't recover, usually it was a kamikazi move that he did when he was about to be KO'd anyway. I think in my head I got Yoshi and Kirby mixed up.

Anyway, I'm no Yoshi player, so maybe my advice was way off, but as I said it was just a suggestion

 

[Deleted member]

IS this an old thread, cuz i dont want to beat a dead horse (or however the saying goes). Anyways, bowser has really bad vertical recovery so if u can land a dair edgeguard, hes pretty much toast. I usually just spam eggs if they try and wait for me to approach, then, if they approach with shffled fair, i ussually dash attack, cuz it actually beats bowsers fair.

 

[Mind Trick]

IS this an old thread, cuz i dont want to beat a dead horse (or however the saying goes).

Dude, look at the posting date of the last post, it says 2006 -_-

 

[Deleted member]

Dude, look at the posting date of the last post, it says 2006 -_-

...ooooooo...Where does it say the posting date lol OOOOOOOOOOOOOO... I see it now. Well sorry bout that.

 

[Rob_Gambino]

Eggs whittle down bowser's shield if he isn't good enough to avoid them. That makes the matchup a lot easier, cuz you won't have to worry about that stupid shield anymore.

 

[Bloshi]

It's totally fine to bump an old thread. In fact, that is how forums are supposed to work, so all the info is in one thread, no matter how old it is.

Anyways, something Bowser related: Don't try to beat the fair with your nair/fair/any other aerial. it's too good.

 

[Ripple]

this match up will never happen, unless me or Rob plays 5150

 

[Deleted member]

It's totally fine to bump an old thread. In fact, that is how forums are supposed to work, so all the info is in one thread, no matter how old it is.

Anyways, something Bowser related: Don't try to beat the fair with your nair/fair/any other aerial. it's too good.

Just spotdodge to dthrow to uair juggle to death if he tries to fair. The only thing u beat bowser in is speed and combos, but ur combos completely destroy him. Also, dont underestimate the ftilt, its hella good and it will break your DJ at med-highish %s so watch out.

 

[Bullet Bill]

This is probably my favorite match up in the game, it's so fun for me when I'm yoshi.

ok, I have a few small combos that will annhilate any bowser, and yes, even you gimpyfish...

First of all, this may be hard, but if you can land your fair on bowser when he's on the ground, maybe edge hog so bowser has to land on the level, then to a ledge hop fair.

after this, l-cancel to dair, and you've pretty much gimped bowser's entire life by adding a good 60 damage to him. do a lot of dash dancing.

freaking up tilt him if he tries to do an aerial approach.

I mean honestly, when it comes down to it, its still bowser and he has his limitations. and yes Gimpy, I've seen your bowser and he's quite money.

good luck with beating the bowser.

In the PAL version Dair only does 33% at most.