Yoga for Beginners: Wii Fit Trainer

[ShippoFoxFire]

I've been messing with Wii Fit and this is what I've come to.
-Killing with Wii Fit is rather difficult. After her deep breathing it's a lot easier with quick and easy moves such as BAIR and UAIR. Sun Salutation also gains kill power.
-Of her custom moves, I personally love her Hoop Hurricane. It's a less useful version of Brawl MK's Nado. It has amazing hitboxes and travels far, even giving enough mobility to be used as a gimping tool. Amazing gimping tool when used under a ledge.
-Her amazing mobility on and off the ground is nearly unparalleled in a character. Usually a character has ground or aerial mobility, not both. Her amazing ability to simple "run away" is a great strategy.
-I'm pretty sure her grab comes out later than a lot of grabs (like zelda, or it looks really weird). I usually go for down throw as it allows for a nice FF nair setup. Forward/Back is good for throwing offstage.
-PLEASE PLEASE ABUSE HER CROUCH/CRAWL, IT MAKES HER SUPER TINY AND FORCES COMMITMENT. IT ALSO DUCKS MOST PROJECTILES AND MAKES APPROACHES A LOT BETTER AGAINST ZONERS.

 

[DLA]

I've been playing this character a lot. I think he's a little underwhelming (but fun and VERY trolly) as is, but I think if customs are legal, he will be a huge threat due the following two moves:

- Big Header: This huge ball goes slower, stays out longer, and allows WFT to follow it to apply pressure on the approach. If the ball hits the opponent, it goes straight up in the air after knocking the opponent a moderate distance. WFT can then hit the ball at the opponent using one of his aerials (each aerial hitting it at a different trajectory). The opponent can hit the ball back, but it's hard to actually hit it at a trajectory low enough to hit a grounded opponent... and if they try, WFT can shoot a full-charged Sun at them to punish. My favorite part of this move, however, is using it in conjunction with this custolm move...:

- Giant Hoops: This move is pretty ridiculous. First I'll mention its synergy with Big Header. If you throw a big ball at them, you can up B at your opponent and apply crazy shield pressure when the hoops hit the ball at them as well as attacks their shield. If the ball ends up hitting the opponent during this malarkey, the opponent will fly offstage and the ball will be popped up where the hoops will immediately hit the ball straight at them again offstage, sometimes hitting them again and KOing them off the side as early at 70-80%. The pressure is very real. As far as the move itself goes, it's very mobile and moves side to side faster than a lot of characters' run speeds. Very comparable to MK's tornado in Brawl, but more punishable. But you can use it to punish landings very easily and keep your opponents off the ground.

Other than that, I stick with Sun Salutation 1 and Deep Breathing 1, though Deep Breathing 2 and 3 deserve mentions. 2 is a gimmick KO that will work quite often if your opponent is expecting 1 or 3, and 3 is kind of a mini X-factor that can help you approach without fear for 5 seconds, or maybe help you recover or something.


As far as her normal game goes, most of what I know has already been covered here. I think her best move is Sun Salutation 1--it charges fast, has good knockback, forces air dodges, heals a little bit, and is useful at any charge level. SS, Ftilt, and Bair seem to be my main kill moves, though I've gimped many a poor Ganon with Fair offstage. Nair is a great move, and s/he looks like a loon when you do reverse Nairs across the stage. I like doing Nairs at low %'s, then following up with a Utilt or two, one or two more Nairs, and a Uair. Good stuff.

Anyways I might do a video soon of all of the wacky stuff this char can do. Maybe even a combo video.

 

[CommanderVimes]

I'd like to see some video evidence of crouch/crawl being abused so I can better apply it, but I imagine the best way is to just crouch around more myself in matches and see where it takes me. I don't have to do any fancy trotting or foxing to add crouch shenanigans to my game, do I? I just see it now as a kind of High Crush stance, for those familiar with Tekken.

 

[⑨ball]

Thanks for the reply! You can f/dtilt OoS? I just learned about OoS this weekend and I thought it only applied to upB and usmash.

dash dance, foxtrot? Looks like I have some other things to look up when I have the time Course, I cannot get bogged down by trying to learn all this advanced stuff without having super strong fundamentals, that's a very common issue for me in fighters.

Not, REALLY...I should've clarified better here. OoS refers to moves you can do while holding shield, skipping the shield drop animation and going directly into those moves (ex: grab, roll, spotdodge). Things like UpB out of shield and Usmash use one of these moves, jump, and cancel it's animation to do other moves out of it. Trying to tilt or jab directly out of your shield will force you to do things like grab, or roll. What I should have said was, her options out of shield drop or perfect shield.

Spoiler: Smash 4 Perfect Shielding

In Smash 4, perfect shielding returns, which is hitting shield just as an attack would have hit you. You can tell it apart by hearing the 'KATISS' sound and a few other factors like negating shield push, shield depletion, and a quick white flash on the shield. This action will neutralize projectiles such as Mario's fireball, and remove the hitbox on non-multihit moves letting you do things like walk through Lucina's still out Fsmash. Unlike earlier smash bros games, perfect shielding seems to cut shield stun by an(untested) amount, but I'd wager about half. For this trade off however we are now able to do things like Fsmash, and Dtilt out of shield.

Because WiiFit is such a thin character and crawling reduces her hitbox even further, in most cases that you attempt to shield, you'll get perfect shield letting you punish with things like ftilt/dtilt and aerials for heavier non-multihit moves. Not to mention that Circa is certainly right in that her shield drop being quite fast on it's own let's you do something similar, but again directly OoS under pressure like with Dolphin Slash is just something she doesn't have. Even with Jumbo Hoops which has a huge hitbox and good damage, it lacks invincibility.

Spoiler: Fox Trotting

Foxtrotting or Dash Sliding if you prefer the Brawl-spawned naming is simply using the control stick to dash and then returning to neutral and repeating making the character only use their initial dash animation instead of their full dash. Like shielding, during your initial dash and slide animation, there are a number of moves you can not do as they will read as other moves, again cancelable with jump. This is a really great movement option for WiiFit. Out of the initial dash you can Fsmash and Usmash, as well as roll forward, and the usual options out of a dash. Out of the slide you can do all of the normal options out of a dash except(I believe) pivot F-smash. This is really great for catching people off guard as you stop just out of range to see what they do, and then using a pivot ftilt to knock them up in the air, a dash attack to shield poke a shrinking shield, or roll canceled grab to get that extra boost needed to dash grab them while staying at a generally safe range.

Spoiler: Dash Dancing

Dash dancing is using the initial dash back and forth so that your character enters neither the dash animation, the turn around animation or the slide animation, effectively dashing left and right nearly in place. This is another good movement option for WiiFit because it can make your opponent misjudge the distance or what you plan to do setting up for good punishes like her lunging Fsmash or her sliding Usmash(character dependent sadly).

I've been messing with Wii Fit and this is what I've come to.
-Killing with Wii Fit is rather difficult. After her deep breathing it's a lot easier with quick and easy moves such as BAIR and UAIR. Sun Salutation also gains kill power.

Have you been trying to setup Usmashes? It's really powerful, invincible, and can be done from a grab. The only reason I say setup, is because it has basically no hitboxes on it's sides (compare Lucina).

-PLEASE PLEASE ABUSE HER CROUCH/CRAWL, IT MAKES HER SUPER TINY AND FORCES COMMITMENT. IT ALSO DUCKS MOST PROJECTILES AND MAKES APPROACHES A LOT BETTER AGAINST ZONERS.

YES. I have been gushing about crouch/crawls since brawl and it was like half the reason I chose to main her. This effect is even better than other crouch-crawlers because her neutral stance makes her thinner. Plus, crawling can double as a taunt. 2GDLK.

- Giant Hoops: This move is pretty ridiculous.

Yeah. In matches where you can don't need your UpB much, or for a general hyper-aggro playstyle this move is insane. I think that whenever the discussion happens for the entire community and not just individual tournaments, people are going to bring this up as a reason why they shouldn't. I won't agree, because it has it's fair share of trade offs/weaknesses, but I see it coming already.

Give enriched sun a try too. It does a bit more damage than default sun, travels pretty fast fully charged, and has incredible space control uncharged.

 

[CommanderVimes]

I couldn't find it here or on the general discussion, but it looks like WFT's ledge recovery move spikes people who are offstage...

I wish I could post the link but I need 10 posts...search youtube for "Wii Fit Trainer's 3rd Meteor," I'll edit this when I have the option.

Now did this hit only because Donkey Kong seemed to be past the ledge in his recovery? I mean, if not, then is it possible we have basically an edgehog here, where we can spike anyone who is trying to swap the ledge with us?

 

[crisspy727]

Hey guys i came up with some true combo's and kill set up's.
I want to know what you guys think of them.I haven't truly done enough tests with it so i don't know the true potential with every character yet.

True combos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IAw4dvCR_k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k_iaDtdTJM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F-Qy613mZs

Kill setups
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4LZL7lhwag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPpxjxXLcvs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZfwe_XegRU

 

[CommanderVimes]

Thanks to your videos I can see how people are attacking opponents with nAir, it made no sense before since I was doing it early and trying to hit with the booty...

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

Have you been trying to setup Usmashes? It's really powerful, invincible, and can be done from a grab. The only reason I say setup, is because it has basically no hitboxes on it's sides (compare Lucina).

You can combo from a throw to Upsmash? And how long is the invincibility on the Usmash?

 

[⑨ball]

Not combo, but setup. Due to the invincibility on it, the lag from air dodges, and wft's great movement speed, a throw can easily lead into a situation where the opponent has to guess what you'll you do on landing similar to Akuma's vortex on wake up. A wrong guess with them attacking is a free usmash. I'm planning on making a thread on it soon for discussion after I gather all the numbers.

And it's not very long, a few frames at best, but more than enough to beat most dairs and neutralize the others.

 

[Big-Cat]

Thinking how her crouch, her mobility, limited range, etc. I swear this character is Smash's Xiaoyu. I never thought about using the crouch as a defense against aerials.

 

[DakotaBonez]

I love how tricky her attacks are, my instinct when an opponent gets behind me is to immediately sidestep, but using her neutral attack or tilt always catches opponents off guard who wouldn't expect her to be able to cover both sides.

Her ledge game seems to promote a very M2K style of camping and spamming projectiles. Jump off the side of the stage and shoot a volleyball onto the stage. Jump up and charge her sun salutation. Meditate. And her amazing recovery always gets her back safely while also doing a bit of damage.

Although her attacks cover both sides, its usually hitting from behind that has more advantages, and this is hard but fun to adjust to. When her leg kicks out for her F-air it can meteor smash opponents.

 

[CommanderVimes]

I would really really like to see some videos of strong WFT play. I'm actually starting to win some For Glory matches with him, but I'm really just hitting them with 1,000 Suns and the occasional smash. Would love to see in action all the crazy stuff y'all are talking about.

 

[CandyCakes]

Does she have any true combos... It's hard to combo with her imo. And how do u approuch with her? I have struggled trying to approuch

 

[CommanderVimes]

Does she have any true combos... It's hard to combo with her imo. And how do u approuch with her? I have struggled trying to approuch

Crisspy posted some interesting combos and setups that involve FF nair a few posts in the General Discussion, but in general Wii Fit Trainer isn't meant to be a combo character at the moment (that being said I've been starting to see characters like DK/Kirby link an aerial into a smash or utilt, maybe we can do the same?).

In the same vein, WFT is not big on approaching opponents: s/he prefers to zone opponents out with B, Side B, and mess with their own approaches with quick 2-way hitting moves. That being said, when approaching I hear foxtrotting gets WFT to go faster than regular dashing, bair is your best aerial unless you practice FF nair, and pivot cancel f-tilt can be nice if they let you get close. Unfortunately, her grab is really bad for punishing mistakes caused by your approach unless you are at neutral for a Roll Cancel Grab.

Though I am currently trying to work out ways to approach using SHAD (Short Hop Air Dodge), which I list on the most recent GD page. If these ideas help you please let me know! I was thinking about posting them here in the beginners, but I'd like better people to test them out first...

 

[⑨ball]

So.

I just found out that the back hitbox on fair shield stabs. Not in the classical sense of "oh his shield is low so I can hit with a dtilt or something", but in the Meta Knight custom downB "I don't care that you have a shield up" sense. Like Little Mac's KO punch only with much better recovery. Recovery good enough to combo into her ftilt better.

Yeah. So can I call top ten for our girl yet?





...

Spoiler

oh and it goes through reflects too

 

[CommanderVimes]

It was mentioned in the GD. Pretty darn interesting if I am visualizing it correctly.

 

[⑨ball]

I saw, but to be completely honest when I saw it I thought they were traditionally shield stabbing or talking about something else.

This is pretty incredible to put it lightly. I'm fully expecting people to jump on the WFT bandwagon the moment any of this shows up in tournament.

 

[Nabbitnator]

Is that why I've been killing people using fair lately? I swear they block but end up getting hit. by the way is it possible to get some kill set ups when wii fit trainer puts an opponent in the ground? I noticed I can charge sun salutation for second and then follow up with up air when my opponent gets out for an early kill.

 

[⑨ball]

Being in the ground reduces the knockback of attacks so things that would have killed won't until later percents. The best kill move she has out of it is a charged usmash just as they pop out, but as expected, it'll vary since they can mash out and mess up your timing. For consistency, either go for the uair follow up or dsmash them while they're grounded and edgeguard.

 

[CommanderVimes]

I'd still like to see me a video of crouch abuse.

 

[⑨ball]

Haha, I wish we could upload replays. I've got some trolling videos I'm going to get rid of today that's pretty much nothing but crouch and reverse fair trolling.

More on topic-- finally got to test something out on header. Mainly if hitting the ball itself without hitting the opponent reduced the stale move queue. It does. (:

Meaning we have a move that doesn't stale (because it's an item) that pushes other moves out of the stale move queue. This also means that on hit counts as two moves toward the queue.


Edit: Small info drop for DownB default. It reduces the damage we take from moves as well.