Yoga for Beginners: Wii Fit Trainer

[BestTeaMaker]

I'd thought it'd be a good idea to share strategies and tips concerning our favorite athletic fighter. Here are some interesting observations and tactics that seems to have worked for me.

• Header - There are 2 interesting aspects to this side special. First is the fact that you can direct the direction the soccer ball flies. If you simply press side-B, then the ball will fly towards the opponent. If you press B immediately after, instead of dropping, the soccer ball will fly in a straight line. The 2nd interesting thing is the fact that you can spike if you hit the opponent with your head. ONE THING TO NOTE. This move can be super punishable if you do it close to the enemy. There is a long landing lag, leaving you open to attack. Also, because of the nature of the soccer ball's path, it will not hit anyone nearby

To OP (BestTeaMaker): You may want to add this to the header section

I'm messing with prone-fall cancelling the Header immediately(or with bit delay so that the ball bounces higher). Pressing Side B and airdodging/grabbing to cancel and put her into prone falling state. The ball will fall and start to bounce, being alive for 3 seconds. Then you can hit it with all your smash attacks, jabs, tilts, or another Header(head spike) to send it in all types of different trajectories, which is nice for covering some recovery trajectories.

• Air stalling - Header and Deep Breathing do not initiate special fall. What happens is that WFT will stall in the air to perform either move. This is EXTREMELY HELPFUL because you are essentially affecting the timing of your aerial movement. For example, an Ike is charging his forward smash on the edge and is ready to kill you mercilessly. However, just outisde of his range, use Deep Breathing, causing you to stall in midair and dodging the attack, allowing you to counter in turn.

• Up-Smash - DO NOT USE THIS UNLESS THE OPPONENT IS DIRECTLY ABOVE YOU. This move has an extremely small horizontal hitbox, so do not use this move to follow up other moves. Use this to attack enemies who are trying to short hop over you instead.

• Anti-Edge Guard F-air - this move has a really wonky hitbox. It will hit people diagonally upwards/forwards and diagonally downards/backwards. This is a really good move to catch edgeguarding opponents. Simply fall just below the edge, then use F-air, allowing you to hit the opponent.

• Pivot cancel - WFT has the best potential for pivot canceled-moves because F-tilt and F-smash have hitboxes in front and behind her.

• Jab follow-up - as we all know, if the 3rd hit of WFT's jab hits an opponent on the ground, it will ground the opponent. If the opponent is at low%, do not immediately try to follow up. Instead, try to follow up on the ground release, which has similar properties to a grab release. If the opponent is at high%, try following up with a d-smash.

• D-throw combo - This is a simple combo at low%. D-throw -> N-air should be your bread and butter in the beginning of a stock.

If you have any other cool strategies, tips, and tricks, then post here.

 

[xthumbtack]

I'm having a lot of trouble pressuring with WFT.
I like that she has two decent projectiles so I can usually get them to come to me. But when zoning isn't viable, I can't seem to get-in reliably. I'm just playing a rock-paper-scissors game with dash-grab, dash-attack and spot-dodging.

Jab is real nice but I can't seem to follow it up without them being around 100%.

Bair seems like the only viable approach from the air, but it gets real predictable real quick.

 

[BestTeaMaker]

So, work on your basic defense. If they're running straight at you, pop up your shield (R), then hold A to grab the enemy out of shield. This is a basic defensive tactic to use against rushing enemies. The same thing applies in the air. As the distance between you and the enemy is closing and you feel that you are in a tight spot, air-dodge at the last possible moment.

Deep Breathing is key to launching enemies far away. Use it when you've managed to push the enemy off-stage. A fully charged Sun Salutation with Deep Breathing is enough to KO most opponents.

There are two main aerials that I use based on where I am. If i'm below the enemy, I position myself diagonally downward from the enemy, allowing F-air to land a solid hit while staying relative safe. If I'm above the enemy, either approach with F-air or B-air diagonally upwards. D-air should be used to spike enemies off the edge. Because the hitbox is relative straight, practice aligning D-air with the edge of the stage.

 

[Fusion_Blastoise]

I've been using him quite a bit. He's so fun to use. Right now my strategy has been to pressure with n-b and side-b while approaching with pivot f-tilts and dash attacks; mixing in grabs occasionally. I haven't been able to combo off any off my grabs though, even at low percents. Who are you having him play?

The first hit of his jab is also useful because like f-tilt, it hits behind. Use this or-f-tilt when you get in spot-dodge wars.

 

[BestTeaMaker]

Well, it's not a true combo, I guess. I've been able to land it pretty consistently, mostly because not many people are aware how WFT's N-air works. Basically I do a short-hop backwards since they're thrown slightly behind.

 

[xthumbtack]

So, work on your basic defense. If they're running straight at you, pop up your shield (R), then hold A to grab the enemy out of shield. This is a basic defensive tactic to use against rushing enemies. The same thing applies in the air. As the distance between you and the enemy is closing and you feel that you are in a tight spot, air-dodge at the last possible moment.

Deep Breathing is key to launching enemies far away. Use it when you've managed to push the enemy off-stage. A fully charged Sun Salutation with Deep Breathing is enough to KO most opponents.

There are two main aerials that I use based on where I am. If i'm below the enemy, I position myself diagonally downward from the enemy, allowing F-air to land a solid hit while staying relative safe. If I'm above the enemy, either approach with F-air or B-air diagonally upwards. D-air should be used to spike enemies off the edge. Because the hitbox is relative straight, practice aligning D-air with the edge of the stage.

Oh it's not my defence I'm worried about, I know all about shield-grabbing, dodging, staying out of their poke range, and baiting etc. I just can't seem to get a hit in at all against little mac/ captain falcon. I'm dodging them like crazy but so are they to me. I'm having the most success approaching with pivot f-tilt and fairs with my back facing towards them, they seem to be safe on block. But I feel so predictable jumping around unless I stay right up close which is extremely uncomfortable against those fast characters.

Does anybody have a link to anybody's frame data? Would be great to know that information.

 

[ksizl4life]

To OP (BestTeaMaker): You may want to add this to the header section

I'm messing with prone-fall cancelling the Header immediately(or with bit delay so that the ball bounces higher). Pressing Side B and airdodging/grabbing to cancel and put her into prone falling state. The ball will fall and start to bounce, being alive for 3 seconds. Then you can hit it with all your smash attacks, jabs, tilts, or another Header(head spike) to send it in all types of different trajectories, which is nice for covering some recovery trajectories.

 

[shapular]

I'll share my observations so far.

Ftilt is legit. The back hitbox seems great for starting combos, and can even kill at 140-150%. Pivot ftilt might be a good approach option, but I haven't tested it out in a match.

I'm having trouble figuring out kill setups. The best thing I have right now is foxtrot fsmash. WFT's foxtrot is really good, actually. Deep Breathing helps a lot. Jab combo grounding into a smash is good too. I just have trouble actually getting it to ground my opponent. Have you guys found anything?

I haven't been using header enough, but I just found out if you drop from the ledge and immediately header towards the stage, you'll regrab the ledge and the ball will skim right across the ground. Could be good for getting back on stage or something. The timing is tricky though.

Crawl back and forth is OP.

Sun Salutation is great for reading jumps and stuff. I've tried doing rapid fire Sun Salutations too (i.e., tapping the button twice quickly to fire a small one). They seem decent for covering some options. The best part about the move is that if you get hit during the first few frames, you won't lose your charge.

Up tilt not covering any space above where her head starts is kind of annoying, but it could be good for ducking aerial approaches. Speaking of which, her crouch is amazing and we should probably figure out good ways to use it.

 

[xthumbtack]

I'll share my observations so far.

Ftilt is legit. The back hitbox seems great for starting combos, and can even kill at 140-150%. Pivot ftilt might be a good approach option, but I haven't tested it out in a match.

I'm having trouble figuring out kill setups. The best thing I have right now is foxtrot fsmash. WFT's foxtrot is really good, actually. Deep Breathing helps a lot. Jab combo grounding into a smash is good too. I just have trouble actually getting it to ground my opponent. Have you guys found anything?

I haven't been using header enough, but I just found out if you drop from the ledge and immediately header towards the stage, you'll regrab the ledge and the ball will skim right across the ground. Could be good for getting back on stage or something. The timing is tricky though.

Crawl back and forth is OP.

Sun Salutation is great for reading jumps and stuff. I've tried doing rapid fire Sun Salutations too (i.e., tapping the button twice quickly to fire a small one). They seem decent for covering some options. The best part about the move is that if you get hit during the first few frames, you won't lose your charge.

Up tilt not covering any space above where her head starts is kind of annoying, but it could be good for ducking aerial approaches. Speaking of which, her crouch is amazing and we should probably figure out good ways to use it.

Feels pretty good grounding an opponent by the ledge and spiking them when they pop up :D

 

[Fusion_Blastoise]

I'll share my observations so far.

Ftilt is legit. The back hitbox seems great for starting combos, and can even kill at 140-150%. Pivot ftilt might be a good approach option, but I haven't tested it out in a match.

I'm having trouble figuring out kill setups. The best thing I have right now is foxtrot fsmash. WFT's foxtrot is really good, actually. Deep Breathing helps a lot. Jab combo grounding into a smash is good too. I just have trouble actually getting it to ground my opponent. Have you guys found anything?

I haven't been using header enough, but I just found out if you drop from the ledge and immediately header towards the stage, you'll regrab the ledge and the ball will skim right across the ground. Could be good for getting back on stage or something. The timing is tricky though.

Crawl back and forth is OP.

Sun Salutation is great for reading jumps and stuff. I've tried doing rapid fire Sun Salutations too (i.e., tapping the button twice quickly to fire a small one). They seem decent for covering some options. The best part about the move is that if you get hit during the first few frames, you won't lose your charge.

Up tilt not covering any space above where her head starts is kind of annoying, but it could be good for ducking aerial approaches. Speaking of which, her crouch is amazing and we should probably figure out good ways to use it.

If only his d-tilt were useful. crouch>shff n-air should work though as a decent punish (similar to jig's crouch>rest punish).

Pivot f-tilt is legit as an approach. You can also immediately follow up with jab on shield and it hits behind so that's nice. Mixing in pivot f-tilt with dash grab approaches creates a mind game that let's you get your game started in cases where you can't outzone with SS and volleyball.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Idk, I feel when I play WFT, his range isn't that good especially the tilts & smashes. I do think he's good though, but I feel you have to be very wary of your spacing and range of the attacks. Fsmash is like an airdodge, roll, spot dodge, laggy attack punish but that's it. It's not very good IMO, but it's pretty strong and if you know the opponent's habits, you can punish really hard. The best thing I find is to play mindgames w/ the b attack and spam it as much as possible to make up for the lack of range. Sun Sal forces the opponent to react to it.

 

[xthumbtack]

Idk, I feel when I play WFT, his range isn't that good especially the tilts & smashes. I do think he's good though, but I feel you have to be very wary of your spacing and range of the attacks. Fsmash is like an airdodge, roll, spot dodge, laggy attack punish but that's it. It's not very good IMO, but it's pretty strong and if you know the opponent's habits, you can punish really hard. The best thing I find is to play mindgames w/ the b attack and spam it as much as possible to make up for the lack of range. Sun Sal forces the opponent to react to it.

Yeah, I feel like your mind games have to be on point to keep up with the faster characters, to make up for the lack of range.
The projectile and jab/ftilt hitting behind you seems like the best thing to abuse in most match-ups.

Also crouch-nair seems to catch short hoppers off-guard and fair to catch double-jumps.

EDIT: Oh I started abusing SS and Header if they try to jump over. The knock-back on header even allows you to keep this up sometimes.

 

[shapular]

Today I found out up B can stage spike. Also, we can ledge cancel side B (the soccer ball just drops like it does when you air dodge cancel it), but I don't know if that's useful.

I haven't been using header enough, but I just found out if you drop from the ledge and immediately header towards the stage, you'll regrab the ledge and the ball will skim right across the ground. Could be good for getting back on stage or something. The timing is tricky though.

Also, I can now confirm this works, but only if you can do it without getting your head hit since it pokes up above the ledge. I was able to do it against an Ike who was standing a bit away from the ledge, but not against a Zelda who was spamming dtilt over the ledge. I was able to drop, jump back, and use it against that though.

Just unlocked Huge Header and Volatile Breathing today. I haven't had a chance to use them in a match yet. Huge Header seems like it could be good for covering your approach. Volatile Breathing doesn't kill until like 130-140% so I'm not sure how useful it'll be.

 

[GoddessBracelet20]

I've been using Sun and Header to get in. I've found that using sun on a rushing opponent can allow for a free grab or dash attack. Its only been stifled a couple of times.

 

[shapular]

Battlefield's platforms are at a perfect height to use a Header from under them and have the ball bounce right on top. It'll go all the way across to the other platform so it could be good for hitting someone on the other platform. Doing the early Header achieves the same thing but from almost anywhere. You could possibly use this as a high-low mixup with Sun Salutation, especially the slow-moving one, but I don't have that one so I can't test it. You can do this on Yoshi's Island when the platform is tilted too. Tomodachi Life's platforms are slightly too high to do this, but if you jump and immediately use Header it will work. You could possibly use this to hit someone on the other side of one of the rooms and hide the soccer ball behind the wall.

In regards to the using Header to get off the ledge safely that I mentioned earlier, while you can't use default Header to hit someone who can throw out hitboxes over the ledge, you can drop and use Huge Header to hit them without popping above the ledge yourself.

 

[⑨ball]

I don't even know where to start with all the great things I've found out about her so I guess I'll update by what I find the most fun or effective in battle.

Spoiler: Normals!

• First off, jab is amazing. The first hit comes out so fast and hits on both sides(as many of her moves do). Delay the third hit to get the bury effect. You can also use the delay to mixup and go for a grab.
• Dash attacks in general are shaping up to be very good in this game; and while it's no kill move, it has good start up and distance on it making it a great punish or combo extender when better moves aren't available. This and Dsmash are great if you see someone ledgestalling.
• Ftilt is pretty fantastic. Being another move that hits both in front and behind and is my go to kill move near the edge. With some deep breathing it will kill near the edge at around 110%. Normally it'll kill around 140. The back of it has a great hit box for comboing and can also kill at higher percents. Everyone here already knows about the pivot being pretty good.
• Dtilt is a great move to poke with. It's fast and recovers into her crouch animation which can dodge a good number of attacks, though it's wonky and needs to be looked into as a whole for Smash 4 as I've seen Jiggs suffers from this aswell.
• Utilt is quick, but lacks the hitbox to be really effective as an antiair. That said, it's fantastic as a combo extender, having low enough knockback that you almost always have an option for continuing.
• All of her smashes have meh hitboxes and tons of lag. Unlike characters like Mario or MK, who can throw out smashes on block and whatnot. WFT's smashes will most likely only see use in hard reads and heavy punishes.
• That said, when she punishes with these, she will indeed be punishing.
• Usmash is her best killing smash that I've seen. After deep breathing and tacking on 80%, it will kill mid and lightweight characters. The hitbox on it's sides is super small so practice hitting with it plenty.
• Fsmash does what you expect it to. Send opponents up and over from the front. Need to check the percentages for when it kills. Seems to have more range when you reverse it. Pictures show that it has a two sided hitbox but I haven't caught with it yet. Might catch bad rolls like G&W's.
• Dsmash sends opponents directly horizontal and hits on both sides. Also needs more testing, but it's been my most used move for hard reads on rolls.
• NAir is incredible and is one of her three aerial approach options, and probably the best of the three. Why? Nair has two hitboxes making it do decent shield damage, decent damage in general(14%!! In comparison, an uncharged smash is 15%), has sweet and sour hitboxes relating to the two hits for combo opportunities even at high percents, combos into itself at mid percents, is fast her fastest recovering aerial, shrinks her hurtbox, and can be fast falled with low enough lag that you can combo on hit. Seriously this move is incredible. I need to test how punishable it is on shield.
• Fair is pretty darn good too. Being another, multi hitbox move with some very interesting properties for each. The hand knocks in the same direction as Fsmash and is good for going deep and edgeguarding. The back leg has light meteor properties and can be used to spike on and off stage. On stage at lower percents usually has enough hitstun that you can tilt afterwards so be sure to mix up your pivots with this move every once in a while. Kills well enough offstage, but nothing to write home about. As usual deep breathing'll buff it up. Really good against characters with bad recovery. (RIP in peace Lil Mac)
• Bair kills earlier than Fair and tends to reach farther as expected. Ok with approaches, but don't get predictable with it. It really shines as a combo finisher and as a ledgesteal option due to it's reach.
• Dair is her second spike. Much stronger than Я-Fair, but also much slower. It fits well into the punishes/hard reads category and is a decent kill move at the same percents as her tilts.
• Uair is a decent aerial overall that does what it's supposed to do. Use it catch air dodges, poke through platforms/underside of thin stages or finish combos. Especially after deep breathing, because Nair>Uair after 80% is a kill combo on mid-lights.

Spoiler: Specials!

• Neutral B--Sun Salutation is a great projectile. Smaller ones are great for space control and they last long enough that you can usually follow them in and grab if they're blocked. Everything inbetween is fine too, but if not mid-full will clash with weaker projectiles like Mario's fireball. Full Salute heals you one percent after firing and is large enough that it will catch all but the most perfect spot dodges. Decent killing power. Gets buffed by deep breathing like everything else and travels very far, making it great as an edgeguarding tool. Recovers fast enough that you can fire a large one from a full jump covering it's horizontal path, and then Header shortly after, covering the diagonally downward area. Those of you that have played Samus should be familiar with it's usage. Unlike the bounty hunter however, it can be charged mid air, giving you a free charge anytime you're sent flying. An interesting little tidbit I found was that charging it near the edge will push freefallers past the ledge, effectively gimping characters that try to early up B you if you dodge and start right away.
• Forward B-- Header is another great move with two parts to it's awesomeness. One part projectile, one part attack. Just tapping FwdB will give you her default volleyball-esque spike. Sending it down towards the opponent at about a 330/210°angle. Hitting B twice will give you a straight forward or 180/0° volley. You can also cancel the start of this move with shield and launch it at a custom angle. Can be used on after ledge dropping to send a ball in reverse towards a recovering opponent or hit twice after a ledge drop to send it straight across.Up close to an opponent, you get her third spike. A great move off stage as an edgeguarding tool or as a combo finisher. I'll probably make a thread for this later as it'll serve us well in edgeguarding, approaching and zoning.
• Down B-- Deep Breathing. Finding it hard to kill with WFT? You're probably not incorporating DB as much as you should. This move as far as I can tell, boosts her damage slightly, and knockback by about an intangible extra 20%. This basically means that a move that would have normally killed at around 100%, will now kill at 80%. This invisible percent decreases as time goes by, which you can check by seeing how fast you can DB or her how brightly she shines after using it. It also cancels momentum if sent flying. At higher percents use it to avoid drifting off. I recommend using asap for damage, and anytime after 80% since you gain a kill move for punishing and a kill combo on lights and mid weights. Her already good Ftilt becomes a reliable and fast kill move with this. Her running speed also seems to be increased after using this, but it might be my imagination on that one.
• Up B -- [something] Hoops. Not too much to be said here as far as I've found. Decent recovery move with light knockback, that travels higher the faster you mash B. Use it as intended and you'll get back most of the time. Also has decent use as a surprise attack on air dodges and characters that recover high since her floatyness will allow her to bump them a little and then drift back to the stage.

Spoiler: Grabs

• All of Trainer's throws are decent. Nothing too good, nothing too bad. The most notable things should be her average range and it's vastly improved range of a pivot grab.
• Uthrow is a simple serving style pop up into the air. Kills at the really high percents. Even with Deep Breathing it still kills too late to be really good for such. May have uses later as header is explored in depth, but as for now the most I was able to find is that it give you a little time to charge a Sun and you can jump up and attempt an Uair at lower percents. I need to test this more with platforms. Most damaging throw for 10%.
• Dthrow. Combos at lower percents into Bair. Haven't tried a reverse fair yet, but if it does we're in business.
• Fthrow. Another volleyball like attack. Smacks the opponent at a really good angle for follow up projectiles.
• Bthrow. Kicks them backwards at another good angle for projectile sniping.

Spoiler: Movement, Misc and More

• She is really good all around as far as moving around goes. Having good ground and air movement means she'll be in a prime position to bait. Being floaty means she'll do well recovering and going deep for edgeguards. Good ground speed, foxtrot and options out of these. Pardon the pun but these attributes certainly fit her character. :D
• Crouch/crawling is great and one of the biggest reasons I chose to main her. I've always thought since Brawl that it was a brilliant mechanic because it lowers your hitbox making aerial foes have to commit to attacking you and possibly getting shielded/antiaired or landing safely away. Not to mention it dodges a few attacks, projectiles and grabs. Tack all of that onto the fact you can dash directly out of it for a polarizing change in approach speed, and you've got a really tricky character to approach and to be approached by.
• Wall jumps. Another mechanic I've loved since it's first introduction (pretty much the only reason I ever picked young Link). This is really great for WiiFit for two reasons. 1: it gives her another option from the ledge, that being in most cases. Bair. 2: Her UpB while decent on it's own, can go really high if aided by the momentum of a jump. Sometimes your second one may be used going deep for the edgeguard,or maybe you had it sniped by a well timed projectile? Well, no fear! A ledge jump to UpB is more than enough to make it above the ledge on stages with long extending walls while the Fire Emblem arena.
• I read somewhere that her airdodge recovers the fastest discovered so far by like 10 frames? Can someone confirm this?
• Built in taunts into her smashes. Seriously, as they're not only telegraphed with her whistle but also slow, we won't be catching with these except the most deserved times. It's satisfying to catch a good one and here her trash talk with tips. :')
• The soccer ball disappears really fast. This was annoying at first, but after facing a few reflect characters, I was pretty thankful it dissipated into smoke on the way back to me. It also reflects at the same angle it comes it at, meaning if I just did it regular I was safe anyway.
• All of her customs seems good too. I really like the explosion DownB. I'll do a thread on it if no one else does before I get the time.
• I honestly can't wait to see what type of crazy tech we develop in this game, because I'm pretty sure WFT will be able to benefit greatly from any system exploit we find.
• Best trainer. Best character. Best waifu.

As a final note, here are a few day 2 combos I've been experimenting with.

80%: Deep Breathing, FF·Nair>Uair [kill combo tested on mids and lights] Does about 20-25%
20%: FF·Nair>SH·Nair>DJ·Nair>Header[can spike if she misses the ball] Does about 60-70%
10%: FF·Nair>SH·Nair>Footstool. (About 28% before any follow ups.) [I've gotten Fair>Ftilt to catch, and Dair. So I wouldn't be surprised if you can Nair to footstool again and catch a Fsmash or Usmash~]
0% FF·Nair>Utilt, pivot grab 23% before the throw. [If near the ledge, this is a good time to go for a Bthrow>header spike gimp.]

(▰˘◡˘▰)===In Testing===(▰˘◡˘▰)
Nothing in testing right now. Check later until we get a combo thread~

 

[shapular]

I don't even know where to start with all the great things I've found out about her so I guess I'll update by what I find the most fun or effective in battle.

Spoiler: Normals!

• First off, jab is amazing. The first hit comes out so fast and hits on both sides(as many of her moves do). Delay the third hit to get the bury effect. You can also use the delay to mixup and go for a grab.
• Dash attacks in general are shaping up to be very good in this game; and while it's no kill move, it has good start up and distance on it making it a great punish or combo extender when better moves aren't available. This and Dsmash are great if you see someone ledgestalling.
• Ftilt is pretty fantastic. Being another move that hits both in front and behind and is my go to kill move near the edge. With some deep breathing it will kill near the edge at around 110%. Normally it'll kill around 140. The back of it has a great hit box for comboing and can also kill at higher percents. Everyone here already knows about the pivot being pretty good.
• Dtilt is a great move to poke with. It's fast and recovers into her crouch animation which can dodge a good number of attacks, though it's wonky and needs to be looked into as a whole for Smash 4 as I've seen Jiggs suffers from this aswell.
• Utilt is quick, but lacks the hitbox to be really effective as an antiair. That said, it's fantastic as a combo extender, having low enough knockback that you almost always have an option for continuing.
• All of her smashes have meh hitboxes and tons of lag. Unlike characters like Mario or MK, who can throw out smashes on block and whatnot. WFT's smashes will most likely only see use in hard reads and heavy punishes.
• That said, when she punishes with these, she will indeed be punishing.
• Usmash is her best killing smash that I've seen. After deep breathing and tacking on 80%, it will kill mid and lightweight characters. The hitbox on it's sides is super small so practice hitting with it plenty.
• Fsmash does what you expect it to. Send opponents up and over from the front. Need to check the percentages for when it kills. Seems to have more range when you reverse it. Pictures show that it has a two sided hitbox but I haven't caught with it yet. Might catch bad rolls like G&W's.
• Dsmash sends opponents directly horizontal and hits on both sides. Also needs more testing, but it's been my most used move for hard reads on rolls.
• NAir is incredible and is one of her three aerial approach options, and probably the best of the three. Why? Nair has two hitboxes making it do decent shield damage, decent damage in general(14%!! In comparison, an uncharged smash is 15%), has sweet and sour hitboxes relating to the two hits for combo opportunities even at high percents, combos into itself at mid percents, is fast her fastest recovering aerial, shrinks her hurtbox, and can be fast falled with low enough lag that you can combo on hit. Seriously this move is incredible. I need to test how punishable it is on shield.
• Fair is pretty darn good too. Being another, multi hitbox move with some very interesting properties for each. The hand knocks in the same direction as Fsmash and is good for going deep and edgeguarding. The back leg has light meteor properties and can be used to spike on and off stage. On stage at lower percents usually has enough hitstun that you can tilt afterwards so be sure to mix up your pivots with this move every once in a while. Kills well enough offstage, but nothing to write home about. As usual deep breathing'll buff it up. Really good against characters with bad recovery. (RIP in peace Lil Mac)
• Bair kills earlier than Fair and tends to reach farther as expected. Ok with approaches, but don't get predictable with it. It really shines as a combo finisher and as a ledgesteal option due to it's reach.
• Dair is her second spike. Much stronger than Я-Fair, but also much slower. It fits well into the punishes/hard reads category and is a decent kill move at the same percents as her tilts.
• Uair is a decent aerial overall that does what it's supposed to do. Use it catch air dodges, poke through platforms/underside of thin stages or finish combos. Especially after deep breathing, because Nair>Uair after 80% is a kill combo on mid-lights.

Spoiler: Specials!

• Neutral B--Sun Salutation is a great projectile. Smaller ones are great for space control and they last long enough that you can usually follow them in and grab if they're blocked. Everything inbetween is fine too, but if not mid-full will clash with weaker projectiles like Mario's fireball. Full Salute heals you one percent after firing and is large enough that it will catch all but the most perfect spot dodges. Decent killing power. Gets buffed by deep breathing like everything else and travels very far, making it great as an edgeguarding tool. Recovers fast enough that you can fire a large one from a full jump covering it's horizontal path, and then Header shortly after, covering the diagonally downward area. Those of you that have played Samus should be familiar with it's usage. Unlike the bounty hunter however, it can be charged mid air, giving you a free charge anytime you're sent flying. An interesting little tidbit I found was that charging it near the edge will push freefallers past the ledge, effectively gimping characters that try to early up B you if you dodge and start right away.
• Forward B-- Header is another great move with two parts to it's awesomeness. One part projectile, one part attack. Just tapping FwdB will give you her default volleyball-esque spike. Sending it down towards the opponent at about a 330/210°angle. Hitting B twice will give you a straight forward or 180/0° volley. You can also cancel the start of this move with shield and launch it at a custom angle. Can be used on after ledge dropping to send a ball in reverse towards a recovering opponent or hit twice after a ledge drop to send it straight across.Up close to an opponent, you get her third spike. A great move off stage as an edgeguarding tool or as a combo finisher. I'll probably make a thread for this later as it'll serve us well in edgeguarding, approaching and zoning.
• Down B-- Deep Breathing. Finding it hard to kill with WFT? You're probably not incorporating DB as much as you should. This move as far as I can tell, boosts her damage slightly, and knockback by about an intangible extra 20%. This basically means that a move that would have normally killed at around 100%, will now kill at 80%. This invisible percent decreases as time goes by, which you can check by seeing how fast you can DB or her how brightly she shines after using it. It also cancels momentum if sent flying. At higher percents use it to avoid drifting off. I recommend using asap for damage, and anytime after 80% since you gain a kill move for punishing and a kill combo on lights and mid weights. Her already good Ftilt becomes a reliable and fast kill move with this. Her running speed also seems to be increased after using this, but it might be my imagination on that one.
• Up B -- [something] Hoops. Not too much to be said here as far as I've found. Decent recovery move with light knockback, that travels higher the faster you mash B. Use it as intended and you'll get back most of the time. Also has decent use as a surprise attack on air dodges and characters that recover high since her floatyness will allow her to bump them a little and then drift back to the stage.

Spoiler: Grabs

• All of Trainer's throws are decent. Nothing too good, nothing too bad. The most notable things should be her average range and it's vastly improved range of a pivot grab.
• Uthrow is a simple serving style pop up into the air. Kills at the really high percents. Even with Deep Breathing it still kills too late to be really good for such. May have uses later as header is explored in depth, but as for now the most I was able to find is that it give you a little time to charge a Sun and you can jump up and attempt an Uair at lower percents. I need to test this more with platforms. Most damaging throw for 10%.
• Dthrow. Combos at lower percents into Bair. Haven't tried a reverse fair yet, but if it does we're in business.
• Fthrow. Another volleyball like attack. Smacks the opponent at a really good angle for follow up projectiles.
• Bthrow. Kicks them backwards at another good angle for projectile sniping.

Spoiler: Movement, Misc and More

• She is really good all around as far as moving around goes. Having good ground and air movement means she'll be in a prime position to bait. Being floaty means she'll do well recovering and going deep for edgeguards. Good ground speed, foxtrot and options out of these. Pardon the pun but these attributes certainly fit her character. :D
• Crouch/crawling is great and one of the biggest reasons I chose to main her. I've always thought since Brawl that it was a brilliant mechanic because it lowers your hitbox making aerial foes have to commit to attacking you and possibly getting shielded/antiaired or landing safely away. Not to mention it dodges a few attacks, projectiles and grabs. Tack all of that onto the fact you can dash directly out of it for a polarizing change in approach speed, and you've got a really tricky character to approach and to be approached by.
• Wall jumps. Another mechanic I've loved since it's first introduction (pretty much the only reason I ever picked young Link). This is really great for WiiFit for two reasons. 1: it gives her another option from the ledge, that being in most cases. Bair. 2: Her UpB while decent on it's own, can go really high if aided by the momentum of a jump. Sometimes your second one may be used going deep for the edgeguard,or maybe you had it sniped by a well timed projectile? Well, no fear! A ledge jump to UpB is more than enough to make it above the ledge on stages with long extending walls while the Fire Emblem arena.
• I read somewhere that her airdodge recovers the fastest discovered so far by like 10 frames? Can someone confirm this?
• Built in taunts into her smashes. Seriously, as they're not only telegraphed with her whistle but also slow, we won't be catching with these except the most deserved times. It's satisfying to catch a good one and here her trash talk with tips. :')
• The soccer ball disappears really fast. This was annoying at first, but after facing a few reflect characters, I was pretty thankful it dissipated into smoke on the way back to me. It also reflects at the same angle it comes it at, meaning if I just did it regular I was safe anyway.
• All of her customs seems good too. I really like the explosion DownB. I'll do a thread on it if no one else does before I get the time.
• I honestly can't wait to see what type of crazy tech we develop in this game, because I'm pretty sure WFT will be able to benefit greatly from any system exploit we find.
• Best trainer. Best character. Best waifu.

As a final note, here are a few day 2 combos I've been using.

80%: Deep Breathing, FF·Nair>Uair [kill combo tested on mids and lights] Does about 20-25%
20%: FF·Nair>SH·Nair>DJ·Nair>Header[can spike if she misses the ball] Does about 60-70%
(▰˘◡˘▰)===In Testing===(▰˘◡˘▰)
0%: FF·Nair>Ftilt> ???
I'm guessing that I'll be able to get a Utilt into header after but haven't tested it yet. I'll update when I do~

11/10 post. This is some great info.

 

[Teran]

It would seem Fair spikes from her trailing heel. Not massively so, but it can be effective enough.

 

[AvariceX]

Spoiler: Movement, Misc and More

• I read somewhere that her airdodge recovers the fastest discovered so far by like 10 frames? Can someone confirm this?

This is confirmed for landing lag (not recovery, no idea what the recovery is). All Air-dodges except 4 have 22 frames of landing lag. WFT is the lowest with 12, ZSS has 15, Pac-Man has 18, and Little Mac 19.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uwEvYc82aUOUJ22_NE_oK3LlmUglglrwN0_A_aiTKlM/edit#gid=0

WFT is probably the most slept on character in the game by far. Nice post.

edit: Haven't posted on this site in months, suddenly 2000th post lol.
Also I'm probably maining this character, haven't decided yet.

 

[EOE]

• D-throw combo - This is a simple combo at low%. D-throw -> N-air should be your bread and butter in the beginning of a stock.

Is this a legitimate combo? I don't seem to be able to hit it.

Also, something to add is that WFT has guaranteed follow-ups on every character from a grab release.
Short hop N-air from a grab release is counted as a combo in training mode, but I'm not sure if it is actually a true combo.

It would be great for WFT if either of these combos are true, because N-air itself is an amazing combo starter, often leading to another N-air > U-air.

 

[AvariceX]

I don't think Dthrow Nair is a true combo, you could probably frame trap with it anyway (like MK Dthrow Fair in Brawl). I think Dthrow Bair is a true combo though at certain %'s.

 

[SorrowOfAcheron]

Can someone test if anything combos into Header spike?
Seems like an awesome way to kill someone.

I'd love to test it myself (and loads more things), but I haven't been able to pick up the game yet.

 

[⑨ball]

Can someone test if anything combos into Header spike?
Seems like an awesome way to kill someone.

I'd love to test it myself (and loads more things), but I haven't been able to pick up the game yet.

There's a combo section at the bottom of my last post that I'll be updating until we get a combo thread. It has one combo that uses header as a finisher, and one that uses footstooling that can be comboed into a raw header on taller characters and sh·naired into header.

I don't think Dthrow Nair is a true combo, you could probably frame trap with it anyway (like MK Dthrow Fair in Brawl). I think Dthrow Bair is a true combo though at certain %'s.

I don't think Dthrow is a true combo either. Opponent can air dodge or jump in all the tests I've tried(relatively low percents).
However, grab releases works on Wario. (Haven't found anyone else yet)

==

All of that said, other info along with the confirmation from AvariceX(congrats on the 2000) on her air dodge landing lag, is the hitbox on the back of her fsmash, and invincibility on her upsmash.

All neat things that people are sleeping on, which I'm totally fine with. (:

I think the most exciting thing I found since my last post has definitely been being able to combo into a footstool.
This brings about two very promising possibilities for us:
1. Combos into WiiFit's powerful and laggy smashes.
2. Nair as a viable edgeguarding move at lower percents, since it'll combo into a footstool, and from there an easy header.

I'll be testing tonight and giving an info drop on it later.(Still gotta do this header thread beforehand.)

 

[superange]

Thanks for the post. I learned a lot of interesting things to try out online today.

 

[GoddessBracelet20]

This is all great! Does anyone have ways to record and see this in motion?

I linked Nair into her jab combo which set up into some fun stuff. Tonight will be a lot of testing of this new information.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I'll play more WFT on Wii U version. Right now she isn't very good to me and the lack of range really hurts.

 

[GymleaderBen]

I'm gonna have to practice some of this stuff, this is all great

 

[⑨ball]

So, since my last post I've been trying to learn the system of the game to see what benefits and hurts the lovely trainer as well as some tiny details of her moves to help land some of her very powerful moves with less than incredible range, hitboxes, ect.

So a TLDR; before hand: Things are looking very, very good for the competitive longevity of this character.

So, without further ado, here are some more awesome fitness tips:

Spoiler: System Mechanics and the Benefits to WFT

• Vectoring/VI -- In case you haven't heard, Smash 4 works on a different system than previous Smash games. In the other games, you would use DI or directional influence to survive attacks, basically changing the trajectory an attack would send you, but not the knockback, distributing it's power amongst the axises you were sent, aiming towards the corners to avoid the blast zones. In Smash 4 we have vectoring "coined by Strong Bad", which actually decreases/increases the knockback of attacks. You can still change the angle moves send you at, but the knockback doesn't change meaning an attack that will kill you at 120 DI'd up and to the right, will still kill you despite changing your angle. However, VI'ing against the move that sent you flying changes the knockback allowing you to live longer, and escape combos easier. Think of it like playing a Mario game and making a bad jump, and then holding back to reduce your momentum and go a shorter distance.
  • This means kills will get even harder to get as players get better, making for having a good offstage/ledgeguard game vital for kills. Two things WiiFit has a good hand in.
• Trumping or Ledge Stealing -- You've all seen this by now. Character A grabs the ledge and Character B grabs it after, sending Character A off. This has been helping tons of characters survive when they would have died much earlier, but it also has a HUGE disadvantage for certain recovering characters. After being sent off, the character goes into the "Trumped" state, being unable to do anything for a few frames.
  • This manner of edgeguarding fits well with WiiFit, because of her Bair. Trumping an opponent that grabs the ledge with her fantastic speed and then Bair/Reverse-Fair spiking them will prove all too soon how deadly this mechanic can be in her hands compared to a character with just decent options like Diddy Kong and Villager. Just so we're clear on how powerful this is for WiiFit, a Bair at 95% from this position will kill a non vectoring Palutena, and even if she does survive, she's in no better position for it.
• Ledge Invincibility -- This has changed a lot and ties into the new ledge mechanics working in WiiFit's favor. To summarize this bit, you get 1 free ledge grab with about 1.5-2 seconds of invincibility. After that, any time you grab the ledge again without being hit or landing on stage, you are not invincible. This make ledgestalling not nearly as effective, making it much harder to get back on the stage. Ledge jumps also lose invincibility the moment you launch.
  • Dtilt, dash attack, and a grounded header I know for sure can all nip opponents hanging on the edge. We'll probably find more but she's not in a bad position to take advantage of this right now, and we've only just begun. As for the ledge get up options, having so many multi-hitboxed attacks means that a roll is just asking to get punished. The jump is reactable, and the getup attack is just as well. Meaning there are nothing but unsafe options for some characters against her.
• Ledge Grab Timer -- The above doesn't seem too bad for someone with a decent recovery like Marth and Lucina, because they can just drop down, and UpB, hitting an opponent on stage before sweet spotting...unfortunately, whether you are coming from onstage or offstage, you cannot regrab the ledge until this time has passed, I'd say it's about a second and a half, meaning characters that try this will poke above the stage before regrabbing if attempting this, and even if they manage to do so, they are not invincible at all. A bad position to be in against a character with three spikes and a powerful bair.

• • These all benefit WiiFit in edgeguarding because she has the tools to make it really hurt if the opponent ever needs to recover, but what about when she's on the recovering end? Well, being floaty means she may not even need the ledge in the first place. Having a fully chargable projectile while returning also helps. Put this with an attack that doubles as a spike, projectile, third jump/air stall is even better. Couple these things with an additional air stall that doubles as a stat booster and minor healer. Now add in the ability to wall jump aerials like nair or bair back on stage. Not to mention do things like generate a ball on stage from underneath it's slopes and hit opponents from behind while putting out a spike hitbox for cheeky opponents looking to bair you. Now after all that add in the fact that you can ledgedrop and get a full SS charge and make it back. Finally close out her options with a decently controllable recovery with a long active hitbox that you can force to not autosnap, effectively reverse-trumping opponents or just nipping opponents that try to wait you out. This all sounds amazing to me and I left out an option:
• Airdodge/Spotdodging -- Brawl player may have noticed this already, but spotdodging isn't as good anymore. In fact you'll often catch a spotdodger with a fully charged SS. That's not the only place it's lost proficiently though. Air dodges now carry lag upon use. Gone are the days of jumping in and airdodging to whatever you want. Like from a ledge drop to on stage jump for example. All characters have a lag time of 22 frames upon air dodging. That is except for these characters:

1. 1. Little Mac at 19 frames
   2. Pac Man at 18 frames
   3. ZSS at 15 frames
   4. And WiiFit Trainer at 12 frames

• • Literally 10 frames faster recovering from air dodges than more than half the cast, I can't imagine WiiFit will be able to be punished as hard for a bad or even predicted air dodge. This will also mean that as the game progresses, we'll likely see less and less air dodges as people try to maneuver about without it, making for ZSS and WTF using it unexpected and useful more often than not.
  • Crouch canceling -- CC makes it's triumphant return (if you don't count Project M) to Smash Brothers. For those of you new to the mechanic, it's a technique used to reduce the knockback of attacks by holding down before getting hit by an attack, not even moving the character at higher percents.
  • Oh, man is this a good thing for WFT. I already gush about her ability to crawl because it's good for lowering her hit box, and changing where it is simply by standing and then this was rediscovered. So she has a hitbox lowering mobility option that reduces knockback, puts her in the perfect position use her speedy dtilt, jab or grab, that she can shield, dodge, and dash out of. Too fit. Plz ban nao.
  • Another minor change Brawl Veterans might have already noticed, crawling does not force tilts any longer. Where as before, holding down back or down-fwd meant you would have to use a tilt. Smash 4 lets crawlers use jabs, reserving tilts for their appropriate directions. A minor change indeed, which can become big damage for a character than has a jab combo that grounds opponents.

Spoiler: nair to footstool experiment

As for the last bit I was playing with last time (the nair>footstool as a edgeguard tool) , it works at combo percents. Just not as well as on stage from what I personally landed against other players. In theory we should be able to nair>footstool>dair but I kept messing it up. That said, footstooling is a legit edgeguard against some characters because even attempting to ward off an opponent comes with recovery lag, and airdodging just gives WiiFit an easier recovery to continue on stage pressure.

On stage is not a smash setup like I hoped either. At best a hard read can lead to one, but it's much more practical to just go for the header spike, or footstool and tech chase.

The last couple things aren't as huge boons to WFT as the things in spoilers, but they were still neat finds none the less that may prove to be incredible tools later on.

• • • USmash has invincibility frames. You can easily do something like detonate bob-ombs by throwing them in the air and hitting them before they land on your head. This might make things like jumping in on WFT very dangerous later, but for now the hitbox is too small to be of any real threat.
    • DACUS is back. Haven't landed it yet, but haven't really tried either. Might be really good for her.
    • Deep Breathing is a stat booster all around. I thought it was just healing, damage, and knockback defense, but apparently she also gets heavier. I survived a bobomb while on the far end of Battlefield at kill percents using that and vectoring. These are also percents I could have died from the right side without any influence. So it's certainly not just for killing.
    • Nair is a really good option after the jab combo grounding. It's good damage that can combo into header or footstool. Alternatively, charging an Usmash is neat, but since you can shake out, much harder to catch in a match.
    • WiiFit can use almost all of the recently discovered tech like roll canceled grabs.
    • This includes roll canceled grabs. Normally it's only slightly better than her dash grab, but pivoted, it gains a suction like effect(similar to pacmans but without the lag) that also scoops up shorter characters her grab normally whiffs on.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I think that's it. For now at least.
The most interesting trainer in the world~

Stay fit, my friends. Stay fit.

 

[AvariceX]

• • • WiiFit can use all of the recently discovered tech like canceling aerial lag with item throws. Keep it in mind versus the characters that spawn them.

The bolded is wrong as far as I know. The item throw lag cancel works for characters that have a special move that spawns an item in their hands (Peach, Link, Toon Link Down+B are the only such moves in the game); they cancel the lag (and hitstun) by inputting this move when they already have an item in hand.

 

[⑨ball]

The bolded is wrong as far as I know. The item throw lag cancel works for characters that have a special move that spawns an item in their hands (Peach, Link, Toon Link Down+B are the only such moves in the game); they cancel the lag (and hitstun) by inputting this move when they already have an item in hand.

She can do it too. Drop an item with air dodge and then grab it again with an aerial. Throw it when you hit the ground and you'll skip the landing animation and go into throw.

It's easier for those three because they don't have to claim the items as theirs first, but she can do it just the same.

edit: actually turns out you were right and dair auto cancels from a short hop.

 

[yoyowoodchuckguy]

Great stuff 9ball. I'll have to try incorporating some this stuff, especially the ledge mechanics, into my game.

 

[GoddessBracelet20]

This is awesome information! thank you so much for putting in the work my friend. My 3ds has sadly broken so i can't play until next week.

I'll be glued to this thread for more info.

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

Question: How long do the effects of Deep Breathing last and does performing another Deep Breathing stack on top of the current one?

 

[GoddessBracelet20]

I have been able to do 2. According to the wiki the first DB will buff atk and heal. The second instance will just heal.

 

[⑨ball]

Question: How long do the effects of Deep Breathing last and does performing another Deep Breathing stack on top of the current one?

Not sure on the time but it's certainly a decent amount of time.

As for stacking, I doubt it, but it'd be hard to tell anyway because deep breathing takes longer to use the more you are buffed(or slightly longer if you miss the first one).

 

[dedekong]

I feel as if Deep Breathing is the secret to a potent WFT, but I just don't incorporate it into my gameplay enough. I really hope full data on this is figured out...unless it is and then it would be great if someone pointed it in my direction.

 

[CommanderVimes]

1. What does FF mean in your little combo section, 9ball? I assume fast fall (Nair) but do not get how it fits into comboness. Ie, you have to be fast falling to launch them properly and then when you say SH it means no fast falling.

2. When people talk about pivoting with ftilt, it seems cool, but you have to be so close to them on account of the leg's range. I guess mixing up with dash grabs or attacks can make this easier to do, but them rolling backward or simply jumping seems to nullify your options in approaching.

3. Can WFT do punishes OoS? UpB is pretty useless and the horizontal range of Usmash is so darn bad...

 

[⑨ball]

1. FF is fast fall. You don't have to fast fall the nair to pop people up all the time. It's a really powerful move that'll beat out others and eat up shields while auto canceling from a SH so FF is really for combos or heavy pressure because if you're unsure it'll hit you really want to be able get away grab. In the combo the first nair pops them up and the SH continues it. If you ff the second one you'll hit with the sour spot and do less damage and send them lower. It's good for landing an Usmash after, but since it won't kill anyone, it's best to take the damage and possible spike.

2. Very true. Luckily for us, WFT is really agile. Things like her dash dance, foxtrotting, crawling and simply weaving in and out with her good air movement means that a roll can be punished pretty hard. Jumping is definitely a no no, for those same reasons. She already has great aerials, but risking getting hit by her invincible Usmash that doubles as her strongest kill move isn't a great idea.

3. The best option she has in many cases will be ftilt or dtilt. Default UpB is indeed useless for OoS, her smashes are all painfully slow, and her grab is lacking in the range some people might be used to causing good spacing to have her whiff. If you're looking to beat out an attack with invincibility ala Marth dolphin slash, she's out of luck. That said, being in a crouch/crawling before shielding means the opponent HAS to commit to hit you, meaning a well timed shield should be enough to punish even the best spacing.

 

[CommanderVimes]

Thanks for the reply! You can f/dtilt OoS? I just learned about OoS this weekend and I thought it only applied to upB and usmash.

dash dance, foxtrot? Looks like I have some other things to look up when I have the time Course, I cannot get bogged down by trying to learn all this advanced stuff without having super strong fundamentals, that's a very common issue for me in fighters.

 

[Circa]

Technically you can only do aerials, grab, and upthings OoS, but dropping your shield is so fast in this game that we might as well start grouping it in.

I'm guessing WFT's shield drop and jump startup are 7 and 5 frames, respectively (I know they won't be far off regardless). The poor-ish reach and awkward hitboxes on most of our aerials would force us to use them later than we'd like under most circumstances. Ftilts and dtilt don't really have that problem.

Ftilt is cool because it gives us a way to deal with shield pressure from behind, and dtilt is cool because it super shrinks our hurtbox. There are definitely useful situations beyond the norm for both.