Yeah the wavedashing stuff gets old but...

[SirKibbleX]

People seem to forget that almost every technique we use in fighting games today was the result of a glitch at some point in time. Hell, even the concept of the 'Combo' (a chain of attacks you can use based on hitlag) was only ACCIDENTLY included in SFII. People who could do 'combos' were often looked down upon back then, and eventually, as it became more of a 'feature' it became more widely accepted. If you can't do a combo in a Street Fighter or GG game, you shouldn't complain about it. Similarly, 'cancelling' attacks was a glitch in a version of SF2, 'parrying,' using shoryuken's invincibility frames, 'aircombos' using 'launcher' attacks, and more were all accidental glitches of which people took advantage.

If it wasn't for people using the accidental to enhance gameplay, there probably wouldn't BE a Fighting Game Genre at this point.

Almost everyone agrees that Smash is a game that should be 'easy to pick up, but hard to master.' If you didn't know about WaveDashing, why would it be any harder to pick up? What Wavedashing does is push the ceiling up for mastery, something that every game should do.




BTW, I'm 18, and I play Samus and use all adv. techs and glitches I can (I can't L-Cancel very well, probably b/c I am too used to SSB64 timing and I still mainly play SSB64 very competitively with my friends).

 

[Xengri]

I'm 15.
I use WDing in my matches and think it's very useful, but would feel bad for all the "casuals" over the internet and wouldn't us WD against them. Take that as you will, I'm not going to say I'm pro or anti Wavedash. i don't even know for sure myself so, meh...

I use other advance techs too, and would use them against casuals expect for Wavedash ( for reasons that aren't relevant to this thread).
Why i use Advance techs?
Well, from fighting people that used them, i wondered if they would help me play even better, and it turned out that they did.


As for items I believe they make the game more fun, but don't mind having them turned off. Its up to my opponent really, i can fight ether way.

Might as well say my view on stages too.
I'm a fan of all stages in SSBM, yes even Infinite Glacier. Reason being is, in my personal opinion a real fighter should always be able to adapt to any situation. I pride myself on my flexibility and ability to cope with any situation, so that i can perform my best on every aspect of the game, instead of ignoring some things. Thats just my opinion though, and I'm not trying to offend anyone.

 

[thesage]

Im 15...I am able to do every advanced technique...but Im learning how to wavedash...well...I know how to but I dont have it down enough to use it in a fight...

since Im probably the only frikin Smash player in South America(Southern Florida...w/e) I rarely come across people who are good at Smash...so I dont know how Ill do against a human opponent...and I train with Lv.9's (which Ive heard is bad...but what else can I do? Its either Lv.9's or not play at all...)

I dont play with items usually...but occasionally I put some of them on for the craziness factor...but everytime I play with a friend its a no-item match....

You realize that Florida has a HUGE smash scene right?

Go to the atlantic south in the tournament forums.



BTW, I'm 17 and I use the adv. techs. I go to tourneys as much as I can. I just held a small one at my house yesterday. I like using adv. techs cause it makes my favorite character (Ness) somwhat playable at tournaments. If it wasn't for adv. techs sooo many chars would be unplayble at high level tournaments it's not even funny.

There's no way this game was MEANT to be played. Once you buy it, you can do what you want with it. I already proved that less than 1 percent of smashers WD and the majortiy don't even know WTF it is. If you think WD is broken, Look at Fox or SHIEK. You guys should be more worried about them being so super powerful.

Even if there wasn't WD in the game (or l-canceling) the top players would still be the top players. I don't understand why you think somebody who just picked up the game should have the same chance of winning as somebody who's been playing for 3 years.

 

[jmh_86]

I'm 20
I wave dash heavily (using Luigi and IC as my mains)
I would still consider myself a semi casual though
I use Items because it makes the game more crazy and exciting. I don't mind getting cheap killed everyonce in a while.
I don't really hate any stages either, except for the Ness town one.

 

[Adi]

I'm 16 and striving to be the best... (with advanced techniques ;D)

 

[FightingGameGuy]

I'm 23. I played a lot of competitive smash in college with my friends, but I don't think I'm quite tournament level.

I use wavedashing. I switched to ICs who are now my main explicitly to force myself to do so.

I use shff but don't always nail the l-cancel. My other main is jiggly so its not all that essential for my two mains.

I certainly use shield grabbing. Is that even considered advanced?

I don't use items for 1v1s but occasionally use items on the lowest settings in 2v2s.

I definitely restrict stages in 1v1s, but once again only sometimes do so in 2v2s.

Opinion: some people say wavedashing takes away from the aesthetics of the game. I agree it doesn't look good as its currently implemented, but I think that in addition it to adding a lot of spacing strategy to the game, it also better reflects elements and strategies of real combat (though who knows whether smash should do so in way). I only do fencing, not martial arts, but I'll bet that every single step is just as important in martial arts as well. Its simply a fact that people move according to a rhythm, and mastering this rhythm is essential to seeing when your opponent's balance has committed them to an action. Wavedashing, with its rhythms, more closely reflects this aspect of commitment and movement.

 

[The Hypnotist]

This site crashes too much, I'm tired of re typing out posts. Anyways...

My theory was wrong but I did find that if your really old or really young you most likely don't use advanced techniques. If you don't use ATs you probably don't know how to actually use them to make you play better or you've never tried them out. I find it comical that people play the ICs that think they are good without wavedashing. I don't know how many things are wrong with that statement. Anyways, I thought that younger people (15 and younger) wouldn't use ATs and would use items and everyone else older would be cool with ATs. Guess I was wrong... Anyways keep on posting... And once again, ROCKNG THE NEW SIG!

 

[maxpower1227]

Dude, I could have told you that a majority of the hardcore, competitive smashers were high school age and below. Smashers who are old enough to have a 9 to 5 job or a hard major in college don't have as much time to devote to video games, so they're more likely to just play for fun instead of spending hours perfecting their metagame.

 

[Ban Heim]

Dude, I could have told you that a majority of the hardcore, competitive smashers were high school age and below. Smashers who are old enough to have a 9 to 5 job or a hard major in college don't have as much time to devote to video games, so they're more likely to just play for fun instead of spending hours perfecting their metagame.

Not really. I'm a college junior and I play with advanced techs and I'm very good with them. Three of my college friends (two juniors and one freshman) also do the same. We all work part time and go to school full time.

You guys have to realize that there's no effective way to group people and their habits. Players who want to be good and want to get to the next level will use advanced techs regardless of age. Those who don't care, don't want to learn, or just want to play for fun won't.

 

[The Hypnotist]

I was just curious guys, I'm not trying to stereotype.

 

[thesage]

Dude, I could have told you that a majority of the hardcore, competitive smashers were high school age and below. Smashers who are old enough to have a 9 to 5 job or a hard major in college don't have as much time to devote to video games, so they're more likely to just play for fun instead of spending hours perfecting their metagame.

Actually the majority of people who go to tourney's are 17-22. I know cause I actually go to them...

 

[Vortok]

I'll bite.

I'm 22, started playing Melee the day it came out, since I enjoyed the first a lot. Was very casual play with friends, though. Never thought to check the web for strategies. Thus, I didn't know about.... well... any Advanced techs until Dec 06 when the place I started working at had quite a few people that play Smash and use them. Looked 'em up and learned what they are.

By the time I learned about them, Brawl was only a year away so I haven't bothered to put any major practice into any of the Advanced Techs, as I figured the timing will change in Brawl and I'd have to relearn it all anyways.

I wavedash a fair amount, though I can't always implement it in a useful fashion (half the time it's like a nervous twitch/practicing it when nobody is nearby). I can shorthop and fastfall (including SHL) easily enough, though I still need to work on L-Cancelling and better DI.

I mostly just play with guys from work (a couple of which go to local tourneys), and almost all of them hate items so they're rarely on. I've turned them off at home, but half of that is so the computer won't run away while I'm trying to test something on them. I don't mind playing with items turned on.

I've also become spazmatic about characters, and change characters almost every match. I just get bored when people use only one character all the time, and like to have variety... so I've ended up being pretty good with like... 1/3 of the Melee roster instead of really good with couple of characters.

As far as overall skill...I'm decent enough that I can win against some of the casual players as DK. 'Nuff said.

 

[Flatfeet]

I'm 19, I never really wave-dash. I never really paid much attention to the competitive scene, since I have no idea if there even is one in New Zealand. All I do is L-cancel/SFFL, but I don't even need to do those to beat the only other guy I know who plays SSBM.

 

[Johnknight1]

I'm 16, and I wavedash, a lot. To school, home, and on the Melee battlefield. It makes Roy and Ness useable, and not worse then Mewtwo, it's near worthless with Peach and Link (so I only do it a few times a match), and I use it quite a lot with Fox and Falco. All in all, it was a good add, and I want it to return. I've worked out my game recently, and I am pleased, but I'll never be satified. The need to be better is always within me, and probably always will be. Since I love playing the game, always have, and always will!

 

[Saje]

I'm 21 years old and use advanced techniques where applicable, e.g. L-canceling everywhere, wavedashing with Marth/ICs/Doc, etc. The rules I play by however change based on the situation... If it's a 1v1, I play strictly by tournament rules. Outside of that, all items and all stages (minus Brinstar Depths, Flatzone, and Infinite Glacier...).

 

[Mama]

Actually the majority of people who go to tourney's are 17-22. I know cause I actually go to them...

Enough said. I think that some people are unaware of the phrase "off days". Just because you work doesn't mean your social life is dead. I'm 18 and I make full usage of the advanced techniques (which is a phrase thrown around way too much these days). I don't go to tournaments myself simply because I am lazy but I hang out with friends who are all out of high school (except for my younger bro and a few other friends) and currently in college. We have jobs as well as school and when we're free we play Smash simple as that.

Also take a look at competitive gaming as a whole and look at the age of the pro players of Street Fighter, GG, DOA, Tekken, etc are. I think thats enough

 

[_X_]

I am not "the" wave dashing.... XD Are you calling me a glitch *****? =O

and no, it wouldn't have, because you would have argued against that anyways because opinions get under your skin amirite?

I can't have opinions. I know, I am aware of that. My mistake for posting in the thread in the first place.

I have a REALLY sore tooth right now. **** it, bed. Later. We'll talk tomorrow.

Opinions get under my skin? No, you rnotrite, tool. I never said that you couldn't think it was what ever you though it was just that what you though was an extremely ignorant view.

Wave dashing is NOT strictly an evasive maneuver. You calling it that proves your inability to use it to it's full potential.

You may have as many ignorant opinions as you like.

 

[Mama]

Opinions get under my skin? No, you rnotrite, tool. I never said that you couldn't think it was what ever you though it was just that what you though was an extremely ignorant view.

Wave dashing is NOT strictly an evasive maneuver. You calling it that proves your inability to use it to it's full potential.

You may have as many ignorant opinions as you like.

Boo bad spelling (thats right I went there)

 

[distr0ia]

I'm 27 and being a Samus player, I learned to wavedash a couple years ago in an attempt to compensate for her slow dodge roll and it has worked out in my favor...

the funny thing is, even at that point, I never bothered to practice short hopping; again, due to predominantly choosing Sammy (the difference between her normal jump and her SH is negligable in most situations), so I didn't end up SHing (SHFFLing ) 'til I picked up Doc

I just kinda worked it in when I felt it was necessary.

EDIT: I have lately made the system-shocking switch back to playing with items ON and let me tell you: I forgot how FUN it is and I'll bet if you tried it too, after countless 4-stock tourney-style matches, you'd be surprised at how the skills you've developed can actually be applied to item play in advantageous ways

(besides, Brawl is going to encourage more item play, so try it!)

 

[Luigi_Mast3r]

I'm 13, I've been smashing since the game came out. My main is Luigi so it's important for me to add wavedashing, Shffling and all other advanced techniques to my gameplay. I'm not pro but i never play with items. I really only wavedash with Luigi because he has the best wavedash in the game and its essential. Who knows maybe Luigi's slide will get nerfed and Luigi wont be a very good wavedasher.

 

[Scyther3176]

I'm 16 and I've been playing since the game came out. I wavedash because it gives me a better edge to the way I play, since Samus is slow when she runs I need to wave dash to keep my momentum and speed. I think for some characters to be really effective in Smash Bros. Melee they needed wavedash. It brought a whole new gameplay to it.

 

[_X_]

Boo bad spelling (thats right I went there)

Like one word. I don't really proof read forum messages unless I'm posting something important.

 

[Lant]

17, been playing smash since release. Came 2nd in a tournament and I did not use wavedashing, only L-cancelling. I don't consider SHFFLing a advanced tech as it's just hoppin' and pressing down + L-cancelling.

Other people in the tournament did wavedash, I had no knowledge of wavedashing at the time, yet now I know what 'the hell is he doing'. I lost to a Cpt.Falcon player who went on to win, I was using Marth, and no, I didn't know about tiers, I didn't even have a computer back then.

I personally do hope Brawl has wavedashing, I have picked up on it in the last couple of months and I find it pretty fun. If there's no wavedashing.. I hope there's some form of advanced techs, if there's nothing? It'll still be a great game, and it means Pro's (excluding me 'cos I don't wavedash ololol) won't have anything to blame it on.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

I'm 19 and I don't use adv. techs. AND YES, I DO PLAY TO WIN! I'm sick of this repetitive thought that just because you wont do anything to win, you don't play to win. When I pick up the controller, my first thought isn't "Hey, I think I'll lose today!"

And that link is really beginning to piss me off. The whole play to win one?

Oh and I play with items occasionally when I feel like totally turning a match upside down and random.

 

[Takeshi245]

I'm 16, play with advanced techniques since it's helped to boost my interest and fun in Smash, and I'm getting fed up with the wavedashing topics. October 18th will finally answer our question to this huge debate. I think it's in, but we can be sure at E for All.

I'm preparing for Brawl by practicing in Melee so I don't get rusty and to beat Shadenexus, who thinks he'll beat the entire Brawl community with his clan. I challenged him saying that he won't beat the Brawl community as long as good players and I are in his way. Now we're rivals as we have our online clans geared up for Brawl.

 

[Mr.Victory07]

Im 14 and i occasionally wavedash, but not very effectivley. I main Jigglypuff so WD isnt THE most important tactic. In advanced tactics overall i tech,L-cancel(but i use Z because the L button is to annoying to push on a wavebird)and SHFFL sometimes. Ive also become reasonably good at powershieling.

 

[MobileSilence]

I'm 20 (nearly 21) and I personally haven't used wave dashing or l-canceling or short hopping until very recently. I only have a few gripes about advanced techniques that exploit wave dashing and l-canceling specifically.

I feel wave dashing is a glitch, plain and simple, that I will argue to the death. L-canceling I'm not as strong about, but I'm leaning towards glitches as well. Now with that said, I'm not fighting for it to be released in SSBB or not; personally I don't care. I don't really think that it WILL be released in SSBB but who knows. Here are my issues:

(For the sake of this post, I will use "experienced" and "professional" players separately. This is because there is a difference between someone who's just extremely good, and someone who is extremely good and plays for money and major prizes other than the glory of smashing the crap out of someone.)

1. I feel that it UNFAIRLY separates novice players from experienced players. The reason I say this is because many people I've spoken to unfairly call a player a novice simply because they can't wave dash. Being able to wave dash doesn't make you a good player. What makes you a good player is being able to use your moves to the best that they can be used. You can wave dash and still suck and get your pants beat off of you by someone who can't. I've even heard arguments that wave dashing doesn't help as much as people think, but there's still the assumption that wave dashing makes you professional or experienced. What makes you experienced (at least) in my opinion? Using a move in a way someone didn't think to use it, or doing something so well its just second nature. Being aware of moves that can be used that way. For example the bomb trick with Link in order have it explode on you and give you a better chance to get back on stage. Catching items with almost godlike reflexes in mid-air. I respect that. And always will.

2. Following the argument that it's a glitch, wave dashing doesn't have its own animations. I take this as a sign that moves that are glitches were not taken into consideration when the game was balanced among characters, and therefore TAKE AWAY from the overall experience. It unbalances things. A major point (while I know it's ridiculously hard to do) is infinite wave dashing by Fox. In addition as a move not taken into consideration I think it hurts overall presentation when playing a game. It looks unnatural, and I think fights look much more spectacular when the moves that the designers intended to be used are the only ones being used. Why? They look good to me, plain and simple. They have animations.

3. Professional and experienced players will be my final point for this post. I feel that as a professional player, you have no choice but to use any and ALL tools given to you in order to win. If you don't, then that's your own choice, you deal with it. If you feel a move is cheap and don't use it (even though its legal in a tournament) you deal with it. The stakes are different in a professional realm and hopefully a tournament will take the time to look at all the options they know of and outlaw things that are just plain absurd. However if your playing a tournament with friends, or a light hearted one, I feel it's unnecessary to use exploits, and further more, I feel that it can easily become a crutch that you may not have to stand on when Brawl comes out.

I've been owned by professionals before, I'm not a professional, and considering the things he did that I was truly impressed with, I'm afraid to call my self experienced, I probably don't deserve that title.

*EDIT*: I forgot to mention, as to whether or not I disagree with these advanced techniques in Brawl. Honestly as I said I don't care, provided they acknowledge them, give them animations, and use the in the balancing of the characters.

- Just some thoughts

 

[thesage]

I'm sick of this repetitive thought that just because you wont do anything to win, you don't play to win.

That's more contradictory than a non-homosexual sheik.

@MobileSilence:Yes WD'ing helps fox ifinite combo some characters with waveshine if the person being combo'd doesn't know how to DI properly. Without WD he still has the drillshine infinite. How many times do I have to say that if WD wasn't in the game, the lower tiers would be absoulute garbage.

I don't know why you say it unfairly sperates novices from professtionals when you go on later to say that people who WD can still be beaten by somebody who doesn't WD (which is true). WD isn't considered broken either, otherwise the characters with the best Wavedashes would be considered top tier. The reason fox and falco are top tier is because fox is broken, and falco is the only counter to fox.

As a professional player myself, I feel kinda insulted when you think I go to tournaments only to win money. If I go to a tournament and there's 70 other people there, and three of those people are Mewtwoking, PC Chris, and Chudat, what chance do you think I have to win money?

Will somebody please explain to me this "glory and honor" concept for a videogame? I play smash to have fun.

 

[MobileSilence]

That's more contradictory than a non-homosexual sheik.

@MobileSilence:Yes WD'ing helps fox ifinite combo some characters with waveshine if the person being combo'd doesn't know how to DI properly. Without WD he still has the drillshine infinite. How many times do I have to say that if WD wasn't in the game, the lower tiers would be absoulute garbage.

I don't know why you say it unfairly sperates novices from professtionals when you go on later to say that people who WD can still be beaten by somebody who doesn't WD (which is true). WD isn't considered broken either, otherwise the characters with the best Wavedashes would be considered top tier. The reason fox and falco are top tier is because fox is broken, and falco is the only counter to fox.

As a professional player myself, I feel kinda insulted when you think I go to tournaments only to win money. If I go to a tournament and there's 70 other people there, and three of those people are Mewtwoking, PC Chris, and Chudat, what chance do you think I have to win money?

Will somebody please explain to me this "glory and honor" concept for a videogame? I play smash to have fun.

What I meant by unfairly separating novices from professionals was that many people consider it to be a requirement to be an advanced player when I don't feel that way, that's all. In other words, its not the truth of the situation, but many people believe it is.

I didn't know about the drillshine infinite prior to you mentioning. That's my own ignorance and I apologize.

I didn't mean to insinuate that all players go to tournaments to win money. I myself know I wouldn't win at a tournament but would go for the sheer fun of it. I was more making a point that if you play professionally and are dedicated to winning, as long as all players abide by the rules of the tournament, get over it if someone is abusing glitches.

I can understand that some of the characters at the bottom of the tiers would be bad without wave dash. And honestly, I feel thats a very good argument for why it could not be a glitch. If it's used to better balance characters in Brawl that would be awesome. I guess one could say that my true gripe is abuse of glitches in game, and what I feel is a misconception that you can't be a great player unless you abuse them, although I mainly attacked wave dashing in my post.

As for glory and honor. I never mentioned honor in my post, but as far as glory is concerned, I was referring to bragging rights. Not glory in the professional sense. I apologize if anyone is offended by it, but it feels good to win against someone I had a hard time playing against. Theres excitement in the fight between two final characters while both have only one life left. If there is a sense of honor found in my post, it would be that I guess I feel bad abusing glitches against someone who is otherwise an amazing player. I feel like it sort of takes away from the fun of it all.

 

[NES n00b]

Will somebody please explain to me this "glory and honor" concept for a videogame? I play smash to have fun.

Because it is more fun that way.

I think you all are missing the worst exploit of them all to complain about. Mindgames. I mean, it is unfair with people have access to more knowledge and better reading than you do because of their hard work, experience, talent, and access to playing certain people/other experiences. How are you suppose to compete with that? The novices are unfairly called n00bs because they are predictable and can't observe other simple predictable problems. How is anyone suppose to learn or even learn about this unless they play certain people and keep practicing? It is not in the instructional manual and unfair for people that do not know that mindgames are part of the game nor to the people who cannot travel to where the good smashers live so they can practice.

I think people should stick to rolling and fsmashing.

 

[Vijin]

I'm 23 and have been playing smash "professionally" for about 2 years.
Some people play games for different reasons. Personally, I play to win. To me, winning is fun. And to win, I'll use whatever I can. Wave dashing, L-canceling, whatever. But to be honest, I don't think it matters if wave dashing is going to be in Brawl. People complaining about wave dashing and saying that it's cheap and that it's a glitch are just using that as an excuse. To me, it's like having somebody complaining when I ledge hog and he can't make it back to the stage. They can't win a match, so they complain until they get what they want handed to them. But even if wave dashing is removed from brawl, it doesn't matter, because the removal of wave dashing isn't going to make you any better at the game, or me any worse. That's just one less excuse I have to hear when I beat a casual player who thought he could beat me. Wave dashing is nothing more than a tool available to put into your game; whether you use that tool, it's up to you, but don't don't complain when you can't win any matches.

I also agree about the point that MobileSilence made about wavedashing not being all that important. I've seen people who can wave dash like crazy, but their overall skill level is still low. So somebody can wavedash. It doesn't mean that the person knows how to use it. But for some reason wavedashing has this stigma attached to it by most casual players, saying it's cheap and makes it unfair. But the same people who complain about wavedashing will play with items on, where random capsules appear out of nowhere and blow people up. I hope they keep wave dashing in for the sake of mind games, depth, and higher level play, but in the end, even if it is removed, something will take it's place.

 

[Takeshi245]

Because it is more fun that way.

I think you all are missing the worst exploit of them all to complain about. Mindgames. I mean, it is unfair with people have access to more knowledge and better reading than you do because of their hard work, experience, talent, and access to playing certain people/other experiences. How are you suppose to compete with that? The novices are unfairly called n00bs because they are predictable and can't observe other simple predictable problems. How is anyone suppose to learn or even learn about this unless they play certain people and keep practicing? It is not in the instructional manual and unfair for people that do not know that mindgames are part of the game nor to the people who cannot travel to where the good smashers live so they can practice.

I think people should stick to rolling and fsmashing.

Your sarcastic post is funny, NES n00b.

 

[thesage]

What I meant by unfairly separating novices from professionals was that many people consider it to be a requirement to be an advanced player when I don't feel that way, that's all. In other words, its not the truth of the situation, but many people believe it is.

I didn't know about the drillshine infinite prior to you mentioning. That's my own ignorance and I apologize.

I didn't mean to insinuate that all players go to tournaments to win money. I myself know I wouldn't win at a tournament but would go for the sheer fun of it. I was more making a point that if you play professionally and are dedicated to winning, as long as all players abide by the rules of the tournament, get over it if someone is abusing glitches.

I can understand that some of the characters at the bottom of the tiers would be bad without wave dash. And honestly, I feel thats a very good argument for why it could not be a glitch. If it's used to better balance characters in Brawl that would be awesome. I guess one could say that my true gripe is abuse of glitches in game, and what I feel is a misconception that you can't be a great player unless you abuse them, although I mainly attacked wave dashing in my post.

As for glory and honor. I never mentioned honor in my post, but as far as glory is concerned, I was referring to bragging rights. Not glory in the professional sense. I apologize if anyone is offended by it, but it feels good to win against someone I had a hard time playing against. Theres excitement in the fight between two final characters while both have only one life left. If there is a sense of honor found in my post, it would be that I guess I feel bad abusing glitches against someone who is otherwise an amazing player. I feel like it sort of takes away from the fun of it all.

In order to be an advanced player you need to be able to WD. If you choose not to use it in your playstyle than fine. The only person I know who does this is Aniki who plays Samus. He doesn't use WD, but he definetely knows how to use it, and he uses it from time to time.

I don't understand your third paragraph at all.

I never said that WD was put in the game to make the game more even. I honestly believe intended some charadcters to **** while others to suck. Look at Fox's winning screen in classic (or adventure I forgot). It shows him looking down upon Ness, Pikachu, and Kirby who were the best characters in smash64. I was trying to show WD'ing doesn't break the game as many people think. Luigi and Mewtwo have the best Wavedashes in the game yet one is low tier (should be mid tier) and the other isn't even a character.

So you're saying that people that use glitches don't really win? I'm confused about your fourth paragraph as well. You feel bad about using glitches so if you used them than you would not feel like you're actually winning? I never knew that casual players cared about winning so much. Whenever I play outside a tournament I don't really care about the outcome of the match. I only care about it in a tourney so I can advance to the next round and smash some more. Tournament matches are just as exciting (IMO WAAAAAAAAY MORE exciting) than casual matches.

Compare this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7lIcE_-tWv8

to this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mfreEy2tWLg&mode=related&search=ssbm marth sheik

Has a casual set of players even attempted this?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...l=5&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3

 

[frankisvital]

Age: 20

Characters: Marth, Fox, Ganondorf, Mewtwo

Tourney or Casual: Casual

Wavedash?: No

SHFFL?: Yes

Items: Rarely

Favorite Color: Blue

 

[Mama]

Because it is more fun that way.

I think you all are missing the worst exploit of them all to complain about. Mindgames. I mean, it is unfair with people have access to more knowledge and better reading than you do because of their hard work, experience, talent, and access to playing certain people/other experiences. How are you suppose to compete with that? The novices are unfairly called n00bs because they are predictable and can't observe other simple predictable problems. How is anyone suppose to learn or even learn about this unless they play certain people and keep practicing? It is not in the instructional manual and unfair for people that do not know that mindgames are part of the game nor to the people who cannot travel to where the good smashers live so they can practice.

I think people should stick to rolling and fsmashing.

Lol. You win.

 

[MobileSilence]

In order to be an advanced player you need to be able to WD. If you choose not to use it in your playstyle than fine. The only person I know who does this is Aniki who plays Samus. He doesn't use WD, but he definetely knows how to use it, and he uses it from time to time.

I don't understand your third paragraph at all.

I never said that WD was put in the game to make the game more even. I honestly believe intended some charadcters to **** while others to suck. Look at Fox's winning screen in classic (or adventure I forgot). It shows him looking down upon Ness, Pikachu, and Kirby who were the best characters in smash64. I was trying to show WD'ing doesn't break the game as many people think. Luigi and Mewtwo have the best Wavedashes in the game yet one is low tier (should be mid tier) and the other isn't even a character.

So you're saying that people that use glitches don't really win? I'm confused about your fourth paragraph as well. You feel bad about using glitches so if you used them than you would not feel like you're actually winning? I never knew that casual players cared about winning so much. Whenever I play outside a tournament I don't really care about the outcome of the match. I only care about it in a tourney so I can advance to the next round and smash some more. Tournament matches are just as exciting (IMO WAAAAAAAAY MORE exciting) than casual matches.

Compare this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7lIcE_-tWv8

to this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mfreEy2tWLg&mode=related&search=ssbm marth sheik

Has a casual set of players even attempted this?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...l=5&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3

First, all I was saying is that wave dashing isn't a necessity. Basically agreeing with you. I apologize if I wasn't clear.
*Edit*: In other words, wave dashing doesn't automatically make you a good or bad player. I think Vijin actually put it best: "So somebody can wavedash. It doesn't mean that the person knows how to use it."

Second I wasn't saying that you were saying wave dashing was added to give balance, I just said it would be a good argument for those who feel it wasn't a glitch, thats all. I don't think they intentionally made characters to suck while others were awesome, but that's a completely different conversation.

Lastly no, I NEVER said that professional matches we're not as exciting as a casual match. All I said was that it was exciting when there were two players left fighting for the win. Regardless of how you look at it, casual or not, your playing to win the match, otherwise all your doing is standing around on a stage. Casual or Professional, its still exciting. I wouldn't doubt that tournament matches are more exciting than casual.

I also NEVER said that people who use glitches don't deserve wins, all I was saying was that in my own personal preference (meaning I don't think it should extend to other people), I kind of tone down my smash playing when playing against players less skilled than I. It keeps things interesting. I play a lot of people that don't take losing 0-5 very well.

All I was doing was attempting to clarify my first post for you, just like all this post is doing is attempting to clarify the last one.

 

[thesage]

So the only reason you don't do adv. techs is because the people who you fight complain about it when you use them? They must be real mature 20 year olds (if that's their age IDK). If that's the only thing holding you back then look for better players/ tournaments. I mean there is a tournamnet discussion thread in this forum, divided into regional zones. I'm pretty sure you can drive to one.

When I face somebody worse than me I usually don't play to my fullest either. IDK if that's the best thing to do cuz it's kinda misleading them about how good they're acutually are compared to you... You could try playing with adv. techs one match, see how they react, and if they react badly, play them without them, and still own them.

 

[MobileSilence]

I actually just joined a club on campus and was soundly beaten by an officer, who not only knew advanced techs, but was simply better than me even in my own abilities. So provided we have our own casual tournaments at club meetings I'll have plenty of reason to man up. It's so nice to play against someone who owns you, finally a reason to get better.

As for playing against my other friends? Naa... if I can beat them 0-5 without advanced techniques, using them can only cause problems.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I am 23. Wavedashing rox.

 

[Xsyven]

I'm 19. Ice Climbers depend on wavedashing. And I love them for it.