Would anyone else prefer it if there were no more characters now?

[trojanpooh]

He plays almost entirely differently from Pikachu, there are barely any strategies that can be used by both characters. Pichu is one of my mains in Melee and I think it'd be a crime to not bring him back as he's arguably the clone with the most potential to bring something unique and interesting to the table if balanced properly. I'm of the camp that "reps" are irrelevant in Project M as it's a fan mod and it isn't the PMBR's job to represent Nintendo's history. That's what we have Sakurai for. I believe that people are getting too out of control with their expectations of the future clone engine characters and are in desperate need of a reality check. If I had to make a prediction all 5 remaining slots (if even ever used) will be at best Luigified clones. For that reason I don't see Pichu as taking up space of a more interesting character. I see him as a genuinely interesting character that stubborn people refuse to give a chance.

 

[Neptune Shiranui]

We don't need Pichu when we already got 7 pokemon, what we need are characters that will have fun and unique play-styles. All Pichu had was unique was the self-damage system.

 

[Saito]

You know. Pichu is probably one of the most difficult characters due to the fact that any error can be fatal due to it's light weight along with being relatively easy to combo.

Have any of you ever considered that you might not of fully tapped into a character that has the least landing lag in the game's full potential?

 

[Sixth-Sense]

He plays almost entirely differently from Pikachu, there are barely any strategies that can be used by both characters. Pichu is one of my mains in Melee and I think it'd be a crime to not bring him back as he's arguably the clone with the most potential to bring something unique and interesting to the table if balanced properly. I'm of the camp that "reps" are irrelevant in Project M as it's a fan mod and it isn't the PMBR's job to represent Nintendo's history. That's what we have Sakurai for. I believe that people are getting too out of control with their expectations of the future clone engine characters and are in desperate need of a reality check. If I had to make a prediction all 5 remaining slots (if even ever used) will be at best Luigified clones. For that reason I don't see Pichu as taking up space of a more interesting character. I see him as a genuinely interesting character that stubborn people refuse to give a chance.

fair enough, i guess in the end we're all different snow flakes aren't we

still though, don't see him interesting at all

 

[Comeback Kid]

Saito, all you've just said is he mostly sucks and would need to be changed heavily to make his few good traits stand out as worthwhile.

That much is obvious, however, the thing is most people look at all that work and ask themselves, why even bother when there are so many characters to choose from?

 

[trojanpooh]

The why should be simple enough to understand. Pichu existed in Melee which means that there are people out there (myself included) who mained him and would be disappointed to see him not included in Project M. True, you may have your own personal wishlist of dream characters for Project M. But unless you're hoping for Dr. Mario or Young Link to return you simply can't justify being as upset if your character doesn't make it in because our character is real.

 

[Saito]

Saito, all you've just said is he mostly sucks and would need to be changed heavily to make his few good traits stand out as worthwhile.

That much is obvious, however, the thing is most people look at all that work and ask themselves, why even bother when there are so many characters to choose from?

How would changing an existing character to be balanced be more difficult than creating a new character completely from scratch, making move animations of a professional level, and balancing them as well?

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I was in the middle of constructing a post but since I don't want to double post I'll post it here.

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I don't think it's possible for Pichu to be interesting to anyone at all unless they think a little outside the box.

The main reasons people don't want him in P:M

He's worse than Pikachu.

This is true, but that's due to a multitude of things that hinder the character. Even still, just because he is not as good as the other character doesn't mean he doesn't add to the table. Look at Roy and Marth in Melee to reinforce that statement.

He is a joke character, he was meant to be bad.

Jigglypuff was considered by Sakurai to be the joke character of the first game and she ended up not even being nearly as bad. Pichu just happened to actually be bad enough to where he was the lowest tier'd character in Melee.

Now remember that this is Project M, a game modification that has rebalanced a whole cast of characters to be competitively viable. Do you think this would be impossible for them to do merely because this character was the joke character?

That joke character had the advantage of having the shortest landing lag of any character. Think of how something like that would be on a character that is competitively viable. It's scary, powerful, and just plain out sounds amazing.

No one even liked Pichu.

That's because he wasn't "good" and no one prominent played AND won enough to give this character that level of popularity. Being a lower evolved form of Pikachu doesn't allow him to have a good fanbase as opposed to a different character like Roy/Ganondorf.

The few people that do like Pichu know all about what the character can actually do. These players don't just say they want Pichu in just because he was "cute" or "neat" but because they know how this character actually played. They see potential in it and hope that the PMBR will see it too and make it a reality.

We have enough Pokemon representatives

We do have a lot of Pokemon. That is very true, but why does that have to be a main argument for not wanting Pichu back?

A completely different character has to be stifled by the fact that there are many other characters from a game that has seven hundred and twenty one unique creatures. It just Irks me.

That's right guys, potential doesn't matter at all. Only how many characters X series has.

It's a waste of a character slot!

Calm down Sherlock, it's only a waste of a character slot if they don't add anything to the roster.

Pichu would deliver.

I don't know how they will make it work.

I don't know about you, but that is what gets me interested in a character.

How WILL they make him work?

That's a question that I want to see in action rather than in theory.

 

[Nausicaa]

They should make a Pokemon Trainer-based version of Young Link mask transformations from Majora-face, DK as a Goron-base, Pit as a Zora-base, and Ivy as a Deku-base.
DO IT

 

[Tweezer Salad]

They'd probably do a good job with moves and models.

But nah, I could see mostly characters from lesser known Nintendo RPG's getting added. Some people would like them and that's cool, but it just would seem a little too fanboyish though.

 

[Nausicaa]

MAJORA'S MASK RULES ALL

 

[Paradoxium]

I just wanna say that if pichu was unique, iconic, and had an interesting playstyle we would all probably want him back in pm

 

[trojanpooh]

I just wanna say that if pichu was unique, iconic, and had an interesting playstyle we would all probably want him back in pm

Not really. With a character as completely terrible as Pichu in Melee it'd be pretty easy for the average person to not see the untapped potential. Or are you going to try to argue that the mass population is always right about what is worth its time? Because Twilight/50 Shades of Grey would like a word with you.

 

[Saito]

I just wanna say that if pichu was unique, iconic, and had an interesting playstyle we would all probably want him back in pm

No, this is almost all about popularity at this point.

What kind of moveset these characters are sporting almost doesn't matter to some of the players that are reading the fact that the PMBR can make a character. This is literally the same thing as Roster predictions at this point. People want in the characters they like, not the characters they didn't.

 

[Player -0]

Yay insightful posts are the best (Time for a noninsightful one).

Just think about seeing a CF that's super tiny and has a different moveset zooming across the stage. I know it sounds weird.

Anyway - I think most people have made their points here and we should stop filling up this thread with semi-off topic stuff.

 

[trojanpooh]

That's honestly a great way to describe Pichu, actually.

 

[Paradoxium]

Not really. With a character as completely terrible as Pichu in Melee it'd be pretty easy for the average person to not see the untapped potential. Or are you going to try to argue that the mass population is always right about what is worth its time? Because Twilight/50 Shades of Grey would like a word with you.

Nah, im gonna say that kirby was as bad as pichu and he was still loved, and that pichu's playstyle wasnt even that different from pikachu's, even so pikachus was more fun, pichu's playstyle was pretty boring. Untapped potential? I think his playstyle was one that was forced upon him because of his disadvantages, the only thing i liked about him were his edgeguards and in project m pikachu can edgeguard better, i think a lot of people dont want him back because he was boring as hell, the only thing that gave him depth was his match-up strategies, it forced him to play pretty creatively.

 

[Saito]

Nah, im gonna say that kirby was as bad as pichu and he was still loved, and that pichu's playstyle wasnt even that different from pikachu's, even so pikachus was more fun, pichu's playstyle was pretty boring. Untapped potential? I think his playstyle was one that was forced upon him because of his disadvantages, the only thing i liked about him were his edgeguards and in project m pikachu can edgeguard better, i think a lot of people dont want him back because he was boring as hell, the only thing that gave him depth was his match-up strategies, it forced him to play pretty creatively.

Kirby's truly iconic, and doesn't suffer from being a clone. I already referenced earlier regarding the fact that Pichu is a lower evolution than Pikachu so he can't get the same amount of following that an entirely different character would get like Roy to Marth or Ganondorf to Captain Falcon.

Let's not get on the opinions of fun and whose playstyle was boring. Pikachu's was good but I, and I assume TrojanPooh enjoyed Pichu's far more. (Hence why we support him.)

Boring as hell probably has nothing to do with it except for a little personal preference. The real reason that people stay away from him is because he has glaring issues. Issues that people can get punished hard for if they don't really learn the character. Even then, when the character is learned proficiently he still falls short of every other character.

Almost just like Roy but to a more extreme extent since Roy didn't fall short of every character.

 

[Silpheed]

I don't know where the conversation is at now, but it needs to be stated that asking PMBR to not add any more characters and try and use "balance" as the reason is contradictory to what PMBR's goal has been from the start, and that's a balanced game.

You might as well say "My faith in your ability to do the work you set out to do from the start ends here at release 3.0."

They know what they are doing. If they add a new character in, you better believe the character would have been thoroughly tested before being released into the wild, and then will continue to hear feedback and tweak it accordingly until it is satisfactory,

This isn't some retail one shot from the 90's. If something isn't quite right, it will be fixed, as per usual.

And now I've said my peace.

 

[Smo]

I don't know where the conversation is at now, but it needs to be stated that asking PMBR to not add any more characters and try and use "balance" as the reason is contradictory to what PMBR's goal has been from the start, and that's a balanced game.

You might as well say "My faith in your ability to do the work you set out to do from the start ends here at release 3.0."

They know what they are doing. If they add a new character in, you better believe the character would have been thoroughly tested before being released into the wild, and then will continue to hear feedback and tweak it accordingly until it is satisfactory,

This isn't some retail one shot from the 90's. If something isn't quite right, it will be fixed, as per usual.

And now I've said my peace.

Well, sure, I agree. You'll notice that in my original post balancing challenges were only a minor point, and I explicitly stated that I trusted PMBR to do a good job with the character design. If I was not clear (which looking back, I wasn't), I only said that balance would be difficult, which tied in with my 3rd point that it would delay the final release.

Anyway, this thread has totally derailed into another character speculation thread, and a really stupid one at that. Unless anyone else has anything to say regarding the actual topic, I'll ask a mod to lock this.