Worthy of Bottom Tier?

[Ess oh Aytch]

Pichu = worthy of bottom tier

 

[metallic shadow]

actully i dont think he deserves bottom tier
as hes the charater in the game that can give
most damage in one hit.

if he fully charges hes skull bash then he can to do up to
42% in one hit!

bottom tier:
-zelda
-ganondorf
-doctor mario

 

[pikachun00b7]

if he fully charges hes skull bash then he can to do up to
42% in one hit!

bottom tier:
-zelda
-ganondorf
-doctor mario

1. Unleess your opponent is in a comma, you can't fully charge skull bash.
2. Where you honestly serious about the tiers?

 

[T0MMY]

>.> Oh and the Pichu push has become my favorite move as him.

WTF, I only mentioned the Pichu Push a couple times, where did you hear about it?
Maybe I put it in my guide? Hahaha, that'd be silly of me, giving away all my secrets... (looks at Eternal Phoenix Fire, accusingly)

 

[Corax]

WTF, I only mentioned the Pichu Push a couple times, where did you hear about it?
Maybe I put it in my guide? Hahaha, that'd be silly of me, giving away all my secrets... (looks at Eternal Phoenix Fire, accusingly)

oh I read in your guide. XD oops, was I supposed to keep it a secret? Oh and I read your guide like it was the "Bible to Pichu". Gave me alot of insight on the rodent of death. But hey at least you'll know if I'm at a tournament if you hear a random amount of "PICHUUUUUUUU" screaming.

Anywho, back on topic.
Zelda's fair and bair easily out range Pichu and KO him at easy percents. Her huge recovery also puts her at a good light.

As for doctor mario, he has his cape which can turn around and reflect (useful against Samus and Fox at times). A projectile that doesn't hurt himself and can control the opponent's approach if used well, with a decent chainthrow and wavedash.

Ganondorf has range on his side and power. Pichu's hit box is on average as large as his body. As a marth player too, I can vouch for how painful his blasted aerial game can be too, since his up air screws up his recovery alot.

 

[sexysanta73]

Pichu is totally deserving of his bottom tier spot. One or two good players isn't enough to influence a tier list, sorry.

 

[theONEjanitor]

i like pichu better than pikachu. although I suppose pika is the better character
pichu's recovery is great, i dunno why someone would say it was bad.
small target, extremely quick, and lots of good moves.

and all of pichu's best moves are non-self-damaging, except forwards smash, and possibly down tilt, and maybe his projectile, although I don't spam it as much as others

and i'm pretty sure his fsmash has way more knockback than pika's

the only real probably with pichu is that he's extremely easy to kill and he doesn't have much range. I'd put him in low tier below pika

 

[Corax]

yeahhh, as great as pichu's recovery is, what makes him so low is the fact htat he has to use it too much, and even then there are times where he's even lucky to use it at all.

 

[ShuffleTrain]

I don't know, Pichu's pretty good.

His crouch is falling aleep, y'know?

The opponent gets very cautios.

COULD IT BE A MIND GAME?!

He or she has no time to ponder such questions, as Pichu has just charged his up smash all the way, whilst feigning sleep.

 

[Pine]

redragon why do you sign your name n every post its not like people cant just look to the left and see who posted it...

its quite annoying



pine

 

[T0MMY]

i like pichu better than pikachu. although I suppose pika is the better character
pichu's recovery is great, i dunno why someone would say it was bad.
small target, extremely quick, and lots of good moves.

and all of pichu's best moves are non-self-damaging, except forwards smash, and possibly down tilt, and maybe his projectile, although I don't spam it as much as others

and i'm pretty sure his fsmash has way more knockback than pika's

the only real probably with pichu is that he's extremely easy to kill and he doesn't have much range. I'd put him in low tier below pika

1)Pichu has a good recovery but he dies at low percentages, so it's a moot point.
2)Pichu's best moves are still terrible
3)It might have more knockback, but it can be DI'd out of, has less range (considerably so), deals less damage, and inflicts self-damage.
4)by "low tier below pika" I'm assuming you made a wise decision of putting him in the last spot available reserved for joke characters.

 

[Impact009]

I don't know if he deserves to be at the very bottom under everybody else, but I do believe he should be at the bottom group of tiers. Coming from the top and high tiers down to Pichu made me realize how bad he was. I'm one to usually believe all characters have some potential, but Pichu just plain sucks IMO.

 

[Omnirighteous]

actully i dont think he deserves bottom tier
as hes the charater in the game that can give
most damage in one hit.

if he fully charges hes skull bash then he can to do up to
42% in one hit!

bottom tier:
-zelda
-ganondorf
-doctor mario

Whats wrong with you, fool?
wait, aren't you the same goon who said that roy=god tier cuz of that OHKO flare Blade that can muster up to 50% damage...
you need some tweaking, ma dude

 

[Demenise]

Although it's bumping an old thread...

Metallic obviously is still trying to own Very Easy, am I correct?

And, yes, now I agree that Pichu does deserve bottom tier.

 

[T0MMY]

1. Unleess your opponent is in a comma, you can't fully charge skull bash.
2. Where you honestly serious about the tiers?

Then I guess I'm so good I make it look like my opponents are in a coma. :^D
I've posted on this so many times and even given video proof it's quite possible and yet I still see these posts. It's not impossible, but it's not very practical. It's actually more difficult pulling off a Falcon Punch.

 

[theONEjanitor]

1)Pichu has a good recovery but he dies at low percentages, so it's a moot point.
2)Pichu's best moves are still terrible
3)It might have more knockback, but it can be DI'd out of, has less range (considerably so), deals less damage, and inflicts self-damage.
4)by "low tier below pika" I'm assuming you made a wise decision of putting him in the last spot available reserved for joke characters.

Jiggs dies at low percentages too, and she's high tier.
Upsmash, upair, dair are all some of the better moves in the game.
fair enough about fsmash
i retract my statement about pika beause I dont even think pika is low tier anymore.

I just think pichu is leagues better than characters like Zelda and Yoshi

 

[T0MMY]

Jiggs dies at low percentages too, and she's high tier.
Upsmash, upair, dair are all some of the better moves in the game.
fair enough about fsmash
i retract my statement about pika beause I dont even think pika is low tier anymore.

I just think pichu is leagues better than characters like Zelda and Yoshi

Jigglypuff is high tier because she can Jiggly Juggly you right off the screen, combo your face into a Rest, killing you at low percent and sing on Pokemon stadium to put all the CPUs asleep. Her being light is a disadvantage and keeps her from being higher on the tier list.
Compared to Pichu who is THE LIGHTEST CHARACTER IN THE GAME
And that's as good as it gets for him.

U-Smash
Has pathetic range, it's easier to get a Bowser F-smash on someone, and people will CHEER when you do that because it's freakin' impossible.
U-air
Is fast and can lead to a juggle if your opponent doesn't know what DI is, but doing something like 2% damage isn't bringing him up on the tier list, I can't think of any other characters' U-airs who are much worse.
D-air is a laughing joke, it damages Pichu to use it, it's one of the only decent KO attacks yet it will ground the opponent if you hit the ground with it (damaging you more) and it really isn't that powerful nor will it spike.

These are some of the "better moves in the game"? Don't be ridiculous, here are an example of better attacks from other characters:
U-Smash: Fox, Ganondorf, Peach, Captain Falcon, Yoshi, Luigi, and of course Pikachu.
U-air: Fox, Marth, Mario, Ganandorf, Captain Falcon, and of course, Pikachu.
D-air: Falco, Marth, Ganondorf, Ness, Samus, Mewtwo, Zelda, and of course, Pikachu.

I included some of the better attacks first, and then some of the worst, and of course Pichu will fall somwhere below the worst of them.

As for Zelda and Yoshi... Zelda has her Down+B. Yoshi has much better matchups compared to Pichu who has only dismal matchups except against another Pichu which is obviously an even matchup. In every way possible Yoshi has it much better than Pichu except Recovery that would be: Move Sets, Weight, Character Matchups, Shield, Combos, Stage Advantage, and Popularity.

Is it any wonder I main Pichu, bring out his potential and do everything I can to be the best with him, but then go and pick a character I rarely play like Mewtwo and do better with him.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Pichu deserves bottom.

 

[GOPrincessPeach]

Yes. I think he deserves to be on the bottom tier. I also think he deserves to be beaten up. Basically, everything you said (Pathetic, Light Weight, Self-Damager) is why I think he deserves those 2 things I said.

 

[T0MMY]

This is stupid, it's not even a question if he should be bottom tier. It's not even questionable that he should be bottom of bottom tier. The only question I'd propose is if there should be a whole new catagory of "Joke Characters" and have him listed bottom of that tier grouping.
This topic is really dumb and proves we don't have much to discuss on this character so we have to blather on about something pointless. Oh, well, gotta keep the Pichu topic active somehow...

 

[St. Viers]

but pichu is so awesome. just do that really slow walk towards an opponent, and punish the lag when the animation makes them laugh...<_<

or play MMs against n00bs with pichu, because they will lose anyways.

or use the thunderstone to evolve him into pikachu (commonly done by hitting 'b' in the character select screen, and then pressing 'a.')



Seriously though, pichu isn't a good character. That being said, unless you really think you can go pro, why not use pichu. Against average players you can still do well. Not as well as if you were being ANY OTHER CHARACTER but meh. I love using pichu in friendlies. just falling u-air-> n-air to u-air-> n-air to n-air ->off the stage n-air to recover. and a few more up-airs in on stages with platforms, and if they don't shield, DI properly, tech, or anything (and why bother using those skills against pichu) it's ike a 0-death combo...

..okay, maybe I shouldn't have started that paragraph with seriously.

And to whatever scrub said doc should be worst (metallic shadow):
please explain. I'd be most interested in hearing your reasoning.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I think Pichu is Low tier as opposed to bottom tier. Being really fast is one of the most important advantages in fighting games, and Pichu does not lack there.

Pichu has bad range, but in exchange is hard to hit when you apply your typical mindgame and dodge game. It balances out if you ask me. Dodging and having really fast techniques >>> having range and slower techniques. There's a reason why the Reflector is considered the best attack in the game. =P

Pichu has difficult to use, but really good recovery. It just means you need to practice using it. A well placed quick attack -> sweetspot = ownage.

That being said, most of what Pichu can do is better done with Pikachu, so what that really means Pikachu freaking owns. =P

BUT, Pichu has Smash attacks that are overall better for killing. The Down Smash sends enemies backwards at low trajectory, the Forward Smash sweetspots at the last hit. The U Smash is slightly less situational due to covering a wider angle that has good knockback. Pichu is not in all ways a watered down clone of Pikachu.

Kirby and Mewtwo for bottom tier pls. Pichu's too good for bottom tier. D=

 

[T0MMY]

I think Pichu is Low tier as opposed to bottom tier. Being really fast is one of the most important advantages in fighting games, and Pichu does not lack there.

Pichu has bad range, but in exchange is hard to hit when you apply your typical mindgame and dodge game. It balances out if you ask me. Dodging and having really fast techniques >>> having range and slower techniques. There's a reason why the Reflector is considered the best attack in the game. =P

Pichu has difficult to use, but really good recovery. It just means you need to practice using it. A well placed quick attack -> sweetspot = ownage.

That being said, most of what Pichu can do is better done with Pikachu, so what that really means Pikachu freaking owns. =P

BUT, Pichu has Smash attacks that are overall better for killing. The Down Smash sends enemies backwards at low trajectory, the Forward Smash sweetspots at the last hit. The U Smash is slightly less situational due to covering a wider angle that has good knockback. Pichu is not in all ways a watered down clone of Pikachu.

Kirby and Mewtwo for bottom tier pls. Pichu's too good for bottom tier. D=

You failed at making a convincing statement.
Go play Tetris instead.

 

[McD]

Pichu is better then bottem tear in my books. From what I've seen, when played right, he can combo fine, and stay alive decent. He might be light weight, but some characters find it hard to hit him (Ganondorf )
On top of that, he has many strong moves which DO NOT hurt him! I may be wrong, but this is just my experiance...

But most of all... HES PICHU!
I can't explain that better... well, I guess...
which other character will where goggles? a scarf? or some red bandage awsome thing around his ear

 

[A2ZOMG]

You failed at making a convincing statement.
Go play Tetris instead.

Whatever you say I guess, but I'm quite convinced from my observation of the game that Pichu is underrated. Even if just slightly.

 

[Chained Up]

I don't like Pichu at all . In pokemon he sucks and in this game he still sucks. I do agree about the Ganondorf vs. Pichu statement by McD though. Which is such a freaking piss off. Same with Mewtwo , though simply because I suck with Mewtwo. Also back to the Ganon thing, while Pichu is on the ground it might be safe, but as soon as it gets into the air it's pretty much schooled.

 

[McD]

I don't like Pichu at all . In pokemon he sucks and in this game he still sucks. I do agree about the Ganondorf vs. Pichu statement by McD though. Which is such a freaking piss off. Same with Mewtwo , though simply because I suck with Mewtwo. Also back to the Ganon thing, while Pichu is on the ground it might be safe, but as soon as it gets into the air it's pretty much schooled.

To add on to that, it is nice to be able to duck under rockets and gun shots and all that (if not low enough)
but others can do that to

 

[Chained Up]

Including many characters grab range. Overall he's just a very annoying charcater.

 

[McD]

Including many characters grab range. Overall he's just a very annoying charcater.

okay, its funny, cause we were agreeing with each other, yet, Im for Pichu, your against...
hahaha
...I think

 

[Chained Up]

Yeah I'm against Pichu. But I will give it the credit it deserves.

 

[Insane-Contrast]

Well he can attack low so edgeguarding with him is alright...
He can move pretty fast but and he's a small target but...

Bad range. Low recovery. Lightest character. Damages himself. Low grab range.
Easy to combo. Attack lag.

 

[McD]

Well he can attack low so edgeguarding with him is alright...
He can move pretty fast but and he's a small target but...

Bad range. Low recovery. Lightest character. Damages himself. Low grab range.
Easy to combo. Attack lag.

I gotta beg to differ
Pichu has a decent recovery, and his range is made up for by the time span on his attacks.
If DI'd right, I find Pichu not to be the lightest, Mewtwo defidently has that. His grab range is low, but a simple Fair L-Canceled to a grab is an excellent way to ... well get a grab.
I don't notice Pichu's attack lag that much either, only for moves like Thunder, Thundershock, and the F-Smash... (electric moves)...
but for that matter, thundershock can be "cancelled'' (please correct me if Im wrong) by jumping.
Thunder is meant to be sweetspotted, for when the opponent is in mid air, and the lag won't effect, or when the opponent is off the edge, and used as an edge gurad.

 

[T0MMY]

Pichu is better then bottem tear in my books. From what I've seen, when played right, he can combo fine, and stay alive decent. He might be light weight, but some characters find it hard to hit him (Ganondorf )
On top of that, he has many strong moves which DO NOT hurt him! I may be wrong, but this is just my experiance...

But most of all... HES PICHU!
I can't explain that better... well, I guess...
which other character will where goggles? a scarf? or some red bandage awsome thing around his ear

It's not that you "may" be wrong. You are wrong.
And Pikachu will be wearing the googles in Brawl.

Whatever you say I guess, but I'm quite convinced from my observation of the game that Pichu is underrated. Even if just slightly.

Pichu may be underrated, however, him at his potential still puts him at bottom of bottom tier. And your previous statements still do not deter this.

I gotta beg to differ
Pichu has a decent recovery, and his range is made up for by the time span on his attacks.
If DI'd right, I find Pichu not to be the lightest, Mewtwo defidently has that. His grab range is low, but a simple Fair L-Canceled to a grab is an excellent way to ... well get a grab.
I don't notice Pichu's attack lag that much either, only for moves like Thunder, Thundershock, and the F-Smash... (electric moves)...
but for that matter, thundershock can be "cancelled'' (please correct me if Im wrong) by jumping.
Thunder is meant to be sweetspotted, for when the opponent is in mid air, and the lag won't effect, or when the opponent is off the edge, and used as an edge gurad.

It's not what you assume that makes Pichu the worst character, it's the cold, hard data and statistical proof. Pichu is much lighter than Mewtwo, in fact he is by far the lightest character in the game. Just because you feel he might survive longer than Mewtwo does not mean it changes the character any on a statistical matter. His attacks can be quite laggy and rather ineffectual even when they hit in addition to the short range (meaning you will be hit before you can launch an attack).

If you mean Thunderjolt (not thundershock?) can be landing-canceled... then, I will say you are incorrect.

If Thunder is meant to be sweetspotted, than Pichu is even more of a joke. With the amount of lag it undergoes, there's a better chance to land a Falcon Punch. It's even more of a joke to use it as an edgeguard.
I will now take the time to laugh at this suggestion.

 

[McD]

Okay, it is official, I fail!

 

[PDOT]

Pichu f'in sucks get over it sons..she/he/it sucks

 

[A2ZOMG]

How can Pichu be all the way Bottom tier when he's one of the fastest characters in Melee?

Granted he's lightweight, but seriously, when speed is the number one attribute to have in this game, and Pichu is near the top in this category, how can he possibly by simply Bottom tier? Low tier at minimum pls. I mean seriously, what's the big idea?

 

[T0MMY]

How can Pichu be all the way Bottom tier when he's one of the fastest characters in Melee?

Granted he's lightweight, but seriously, when speed is the number one attribute to have in this game, and Pichu is near the top in this category, how can he possibly by simply Bottom tier? Low tier at minimum pls. I mean seriously, what's the big idea?

Because he's not one of the fastest characters in the game. Not only in actual running speed, but his attacks can be really laggy. If he doesn't run fast and he's not hitting on the first frame he's going to be low tier just because of that, but in addition to that he's got unique disadvantages and statistically has the worst attributes in the game (range, weight, strength, etc).
I hate it when people think Pichu is fast, and in addition to that somehow come up with an idea that this alone, if it were true, is the single most important factor to tier placings.
I really hope a mod locks this topic soon so we don't have to hear the same poor arguments time and again and waste our time explaining to Pichu newbs all his disadvantages. The top Pichu players agree he is bottom tier; noobs: go play the character a bit.

 

[Deleted member]

Because he's not one of the fastest characters in the game. Not only in actual running speed, but his attacks can be really laggy. If he doesn't run fast and he's not hitting on the first frame he's going to be low tier just because of that, but in addition to that he's got unique disadvantages and statistically has the worst attributes in the game (range, weight, strength, etc).
I hate it when people think Pichu is fast, and in addition to that somehow come up with an idea that this alone, if it were true, is the single most important factor to tier placings.
I really hope a mod locks this topic soon so we don't have to hear the same poor arguments time and again and waste our time explaining to Pichu newbs all his disadvantages. The top Pichu players agree he is bottom tier; noobs: go play the character a bit.

Tommy, but Pichu can perform the microstep thing Doesnt that alone allow him to be top tier Ok,ya, i just play pichu to be annoying, but he really does suck. Also, tommy is one of the best pichus, yet u are arguing with him, even though he himself says that pichu is a piece of crap.

 

[Chip.]

Low Tier Tier List (Note DK and Pika have been moved out into Mid)

Luigi
Bowser/GnW (really close)
Link
Young Link
Yoshi

Bottom Tier
Pichu
Mewtwo
Kirby

When talking with other smashers thats what seems to get thrown around a lot

LOL

what a joke

Young Link and Link are leagues better than Bowser and Gaw.
no arguments? kthx

 

[A2ZOMG]

In no way I disagree Pichu is crap. I'm merely arguing for either top of the bottom tier, or bottom of the low tier. ><

Explain what you mean by "really laggy". If somehow this is outside of the Dash attack, Down-B, and Forward-B, then it's probably lag common to other characters quite seriously which can be punished likewise across the world of Smash. Unless somehow my eyes deceive me, his aerial attacks overall start up faster than those of other characters, and can be L-canceled like any other (except for 3 of G&W's). The way I see it, his most important attacks are pretty reasonable in terms of lag. None of his other A-button attacks have any more lag that's going to kill you, except for the Dash attack really. High movement speed is a key factor in reducing any such lag that might exist, which is particularly important for Captain Falcon. I don't get your point with lag at all. If you somehow don't agree that Kirby and Mewtwo have waaaaaay worse lag problems than Pichu, I'm going to need an explanation here.

Range and weight are pretty much agreed upon. Strength? Dude, that's Mario's problem. Mario has only like one kill move out of many moves with average to below average knockback. Nobody has less strength than Mario, and this certainly applies to Pichu, who has significantly more killing options than him. Pichu's Smash attacks especially have great knockback, and his aerials are more or less average in knockback. Strength is not an argument I believe should be used as "OMG PICHU IS TEH WORST"

Movement speed is a big factor in being fast. Captain Falcon has a lot of moves that can be considered laggy, but he reduces noticeable lag tremendously by linking it in with mindgames that take advantage of his great movement speed. What is your point again?

Again, it's all about me believing him to be top of the bottom tier, or bottom of the low tier (basically, 3rd worst, as opposed to 2nd or 1st worst character in the game, I mean your point is he's the worst character eh?). I find no better source to learn otherwise than a top Pichu player. I'll appreciate any time you put to the reply. =P