Wolf's B.O.A.T. (Buffered Out of A Throw) Combos

[Ingulit]

I've been experimenting with Diddy's BACUS for a long time now and developed a combo (the "B.O.A.T." combo) that I realized would probably work well with Wolf, and, sure enough, it does. Thus I present two Buffered Out of a Throw, or "B.O.A.T.", combos: F-Throw > BDACUS and D-Throw > BDACUS.

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OROby1Zycjk

Both combos work better at mid-high percents.

 

[audauro]

yawwwnn.............

 

[Ingulit]

yawwwnn.............

Constructive criticism is helpful too

 

[audauro]

Constructive criticism is helpful too

Good find! i'm just tired.


question: what goes on in the diddy backroom?



also, can you test that if the opponent doesn't tech the dthrow, what are their options to avoid getting hit with the dacus?

 

[Laem]

BOOT combo would make more sense

 

[rvkevin]

Does it work when they tech away?

 

[Ingulit]

BOOT combo would make more sense

This combo has been called the BOAT for awhile now on the Diddy boards, so I'm sticking with it.

If they tech the D-Throw, I *think* you'll still hit them because of how fast the BDACUS comes out.

 

[tekkie]

wolf has a pretty nice butt

Spoiler

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0266543/

 

[Ishiey]

^ wut?

@ Ingulit: Did either of these show up as combos on the training mode combo meter? I know that the opponents can definitely DI the fthrow, but the first dthrow one you showed might be a true combo :O

If they tech the dthrow, it depends. Some characters can shield a dsmash right after a neutral tech, I can tell you that much. If Lucario techs away, you can fsmash him. Maybe I'll make a list for it sometime, if Atomsk is willing to tech dthrows with me for a few hours

 

[~ Gheb ~]

If this actually works against many characters and is truly guaranteed then I have to learn the BDACUS asap. Wolf can already combo bair -> fsmash against many characters for 38% right off the bat. With that new combo we get another 21% or so from a grab. That adds up for 60% from a single bair and a single grab - two moves that are rather easy to use to begin with. You still can combo jumpshine -> AAA at any %.

This is something I've been waiting / looking out for - a combo that wrecks damage at mid %. Right after bair -> fsmash stops working we get another combo that nets another 20%. Awesome.

 

[Laem]

i actually have doubts wether this is legit..
for starters, dthrows at mid percents and up can be teched(at two(or even more?!) places) therefore techrolled which would nullify the (b)dacus
the first dthrow shown in that vid seems kind of legit, but at that distance wouldn't fsmash be faster? and im fairly sure fsmash isnt guaranteed...
and fthrow... i guess i have faith in the fthrow, due to that fthrow dtilt fsmash combo. but probably avoidable with correct di.

 

[rvkevin]

If they tech the dthrow, it depends. Some characters can shield a dsmash right after a neutral tech, I can tell you that much.

I'm not so sure about that. I think you're not buffering the Dsmash.

 

[B.A.M.]

well ive been doing this since BDacus hit mainstream. It seemed to work for me. Although im not a Wolf main. check it out good sirs. It was working for me and it was quite nice.

 

[Ishiey]

I'm not so sure about that. I think you're not buffering the Dsmash.

Trust me, I am, or at least consistently enough to know that we have different advantages on different charactes. I've tried it probably a 100 times on at least 5 different characters, it depends on the character. Some tech faster than others, some hit the ground faster than others (% also makes a difference with this, but that's more noticeable for lightweights), etc.

The Sonic boards have a thread detailing their frame advantages off of a teched dthrow, it's probably something similar-ish for Wolf. We should really do some research on people teching our dthrow sometime >_>

 

[audauro]

if tehy tech in front of u, just regrab lol

 

[rvkevin]

Well, I don't play Wolf or Sonic so if they have special tech speed, then it might work for them. The weight or how far they hit the ground from Wolf is irrelevant. I would get Dsmashed teching in place while holding shield regardless, whether if I were Snake, DDD or MK, Diddy. Trust me, I try to tech Wolf's Dthrow every chance I have, teching in place does not work if Wolf buffers a Dsmash.

 

[Ishiey]

Try Marth and tell me how that goes, because it doesn't seem to work against him, or at least for me :< And @ JJ, regrab works too ;D But some lighter characters can end up too far away to regrab, so I stick with dsmash or jab (that and my grab buttons are messed up )

 

[rvkevin]

Try Marth and tell me how that goes

But some lighter characters can end up too far away to regrab.

Yea, I didn't use Marth at all back then.

And if they try to tech behind you, they end up right in front of you and you don't even need to move to re-grab.

 

[_Kain_]

Jab always works for people who tech in place

 

[_Kain_]

Also...wud shine or upsmash work on some ppl?

 

[Commander_Beef]

These look great. But another thing....anybody else notice that the percents on the moves are a little off? I saw a forward throw do 3%...and a down throw do 7%.
We need to see the moves more refreshed for this to even work too, or else it's garbage.

 

[Ingulit]

These look great. But another thing....anybody else notice that the percents on the moves are a little off? I saw a forward throw do 3%...and a down throw do 7%.
We need to see the moves more refreshed for this to even work too, or else it's garbage.

Yes, the percents are off in this video because I use the "Decay in Training" hack. I've gotten it to work with all the moves fully refreshed (in fact, it seems like it's easier to connect with the BDACUS if your throws are fresh). I really should take that hack off when I'm trying to demonstrate something

 

[Commander_Beef]

Oh....sounds good to me!

 

[jpak]

I know/can do DACUS, but how do I do a a BDACUS? And BOAT means that I would start inputting the commands for the BDACUS immediately after my throw right?

 

[Ingulit]

I know/can do DACUS, but how do I do a a BDACUS? And BOAT means that I would start inputting the commands for the BDACUS immediately after my throw right?

BDACUS means "Buffered DACUS", meaning you'd input the commands for the DACUS DURING the throwing animation. You have to do it in the last ten frames of the throw:
Forward on Control Stick + Up on C-Stick > Up on C-Stick
You have to do all of that in ten frames, and then you'll DACUS on the first possible frame when the throw ends. It's not that hard once you get the timing down.

 

[SelfPossessed]

We do need to figure out the % when each character is forced into lying down on the ground after a Dthrow. The % where this might work varies per character (you'd have to consider weight, fall speed, DI, character frame size, etc).

I played around with Dthrow -> buffered DACUS in training mode against a lvl 9 MK CPU set to around 53%. There might be a percent that's more favorable, but this was approximately around when MK would first be forced into the lying down animation.

When he was forced into the lying down animation, I had a high success rate landing the buffered DACUS. The few instances where I failed have two possible causes; his get up attack invincibility managed to kick in on time (which means that buffered DACUS is worthless against MK) or I canceled the dash attack too early/late. I am hoping it is the latter.

Teching in place and behind Wolf will always allow MK to avoid the buffered DACUS. The two times I managed a buffered DACUS against tech roll away, I just barely missed him. As the CPU MK rarely tech rolls away, I am unable to confirm if it was a timing issue on my part. However, it seems likely that all forms of teching will allow MK to avoid the buffered DACUS. Note that charging the buffered DACUS slightly might add just enough distance to beat tech roll away while simultaneously covering the non-tech options.

I lack the time or frame by frame equipment for truly in depth testing. This was just me playing around in training mode and not definitive data.

EDIT: I did not try Fthrow as it looks very escapable; the opponent should easily be able to DJ/Fair/whatever long before your buffered DACUS reaches them.

 

[Ishiey]

I was working on getting those dthrow %s in training mode before... man I really need to stop leaving things halfway lol. Decay plays a strong factor though, so someone should also test it in training for 1-2 decays.

Fthrow is definitely escapable, but doesn't mean that opponents won't put themselves in the position to be hit by it sometimes. Shouldn't be an automatic response, but I've seen people pull off fthrow > dacus before so can't be worthless ;D

 

[Choice]

if you really want to verify that its a combo you should pummel once before and check the combo count after.

edit: no nvm thats for grab releases, haha. i dunno. does the frame data really say that this combos or is it a "combo"

 

[Fugu15]

I have been using both of these for a long time, but I can't really say that these are combos. There are many options to get out of the dacus hits and they are very different for each character and percent. It has never worked consistently but is a great mixup to surprise someone.

Perhaps we can try to get a table going of under what percents and for what chars the fthrow is a true combo? That would be extremely helpful.

The found the dthrow one not as useful, you get hit more often than you catch them with it. At a lot of percents they can block it and have oos options, if they tech in place they have an open shot at you, or tech back.

 

[SelfPossessed]

Fthrow doesn't have combos except for Fthrow -> buffered Dtilt on large opponent at around 0%. It's too easy to DI, jump, or interrupt the followup.

The Dthrow version can punish failed techs at certain percents. It does have to be at the percents that they land in a fallen state, which is different for every character. If they tech, you essentially have a mixup opportunity.
- Tech in place is vulnerable to a regrab. If you can react in time, canceling the dash attack into a pivot grab might punish this (untested). A dash attack by itself is too slow to punish it though.
- Tech behind is pretty slow, easy Usmash or regrab. Canceling the dash attack into a pivot grab might punish this (untested). Even if you can't punish it, the DACUS is pretty safe.
- Tech away might be (untested) vulnerable to a charged buffered DACUS. Slower rolls might be plain vulnerable to the buffered DACUS. It might be possible to react in time to determine how long to charge DACUS to cover all options.

You'll notice a lot of untested stuff with Dthrow, but it limits the opponent's options far more than Fthrow does.