Wolf is going to be overused isn't he?

[sahilio]

Not that it is a problem. He is a pretty solid character and executes really well in the air.

Although...it seems like since he was announced as the last character, the hype was so large that people have been focusing on him so much (with videos and whatnot) that everyone thinks he will be the leader of the so called "tiers".

I personally think tiers are ridiculous and just ruin the game.

Seems like the most played characters will be wolf, sonic and perhaps even toon link.


(I have the game btw...and do agree Wolf is a solid character, but not "better" than all the others, just different ways to utilize his different play style)

 

[raul]

In Japan I could that arguement and of course by the Squadron haha, but I think characters like Lucario, Pokemon Trainer, Meta Knight, Pit, Sonic, Snake will be used much more than Wolf. Wolf might upset some people because of his final Smash so they may stay away from him, like idiots.

 

[sahilio]

You might be right...but of course we all ideally hope characters are used equally so that it doesn't become like melee... fox and zelda/sheik

but I guess hype does a lot to people :-/

 

[Ghost07]

The roster is so much bigger so I really can't see there being a melee fox again. Alot of people like wolf and a lot of people hate him, so no I don't think he will be overplayed.

And you shouldn't worry about the tier list, it's just a list. Play with who you like, not by who has the best chances of winning.

 

[sahilio]

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. But like the other post says, a huge bandwagon is just building up before a majority of the people have even been able to play.

But I guess there is no stopping that.

 

[raul]

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. But like the other post says, a huge bandwagon is just building up before a majority of the people have even been able to play.

But I guess there is no stopping that.

Theres a bandwagon for every character and nobody has played any of them. I wouldnt listen to the bandwagon crap at all. It extends to all characters.

Also, the tier list is for competitive play, so unless youre playing competitively, dont orry about it and pick a character and use them.

 

[sahilio]

Well, I am talking a bit about competitive play. I still think even on that level, now without L canceling and wave dashing that there is no real use for a tier list. Rather, maybe a list that says a character is easier to use than the other...

But especially at a competitive level, with the mechanics of brawl, any character should virtually be able to master competitive play.

 

[raul]

Well, I am talking a bit about competitive play. I still think even on that level, now without L canceling and wave dashing that there is no real use for a tier list. Rather, maybe a list that says a character is easier to use than the other...

But especially at a competitive level, with the mechanics of brawl, any character should virtually be able to master competitive play.

Ahh I understand what you mean. While the tier list gives you the best overall characters because of their make up (weight, speed, attack power, jumping the list goes on), you would prefer a list to be created with characters that are easy to master. That makes sense and you might see more people who use lower tier characters in competitive play because they found such a character to be more to their style than playing a character based only off the teir list.

 

[sahilio]

Exactly! I am just saying it is such a shame. There were people who were utterly ridiculous at DK and Ice climbers, on a competitive level.

But those people had good will power not to conform. Without a tier list, those with weaker will power will be able to enjoy the game even on a competitive level with characters that just fit perfectly for them.

 

[raul]

Exactly! I am just saying it is such a shame. There were people who were utterly ridiculous at DK and Ice climbers, on a competitive level.

But those people had good will power not to conform. Without a tier list, those with weaker will power will be able to enjoy the game even on a competitive level with characters that just fit perfectly for them.

Before tier lists were ever in existence, I used Link, Kirby and Fox, dating back to SSB64. Now that Fox is top tier, everyone thinks I use him BECAUSE he is top tier. The reality is, I got good with Fox, long before tiers, long before I joined this community, long before I wrote this post. I think I have a saying that fits this:

A good man will find a problem, a great man will find a solution

now relate it to smash

A good player will dominate with a top-tier character, a great player will dominate with a low-tier character.

How awesome would it be if someone actually killed me with Jiggly Puff or MewTwo or Luigi or Pichu? Am I good because I use Fox or am I good because my opponents use crappy characters? I'll never know.

 

[Relhots]

Before tier lists were ever in existence, I used Link, Kirby and Fox, dating back to SSB64. Now that Fox is top tier, everyone thinks I use him BECAUSE he is top tier. The reality is, I got good with Fox, long before tiers, long before I joined this community, long before I wrote this post.

The Exact same happens with me when people see how good i am with him...i hate it...i really picked him just because i like starfox...and i think he is a cool character...and now every one criticizes me about it...

 

[raul]

The Exact same happens with me when people see how good i am with him...i hate it...i really picked him just because i like starfox...and i think he is a cool character...and now every one criticizes me about it...

Yeah and now because people use Fox he is considered the most over used character in the game. I can see the same thing happening to Wolf should people discover he is top tier. All the people like you, I, and everyone else will never hear the end of it, just because he is top tier. All we have to prove our loyalty long before tiers is the SWS thread. But seriously, tiers I think ruin the game. Who cares about who good a character is, a great player will kill you with a not so good character.

 

[sahilio]

Yeah, and those ALSO are reasons why tier lists are so dumb. They ruin the game. Competitive play is fun in general and now with online wifi a lot of people will be competing... so a tier list will just make everything ridiculously bland and boring.

This is why I am worried about Wolf.. by all means, I am not being selfish. I am not even that great at ssbb...yet

But it is ridiculous to see how people flock to something "new and interesting"... I know that sounds naive but I guess that is the same story about anything new in life really.

 

[raul]

Yeah, and those ALSO are reasons why tier lists are so dumb. They ruin the game. Competitive play is fun in general and now with online wifi a lot of people will be competing... so a tier list will just make everything ridiculously bland and boring.

This is why I am worried about Wolf.. by all means, I am not being selfish. I am not even that great at ssbb...yet

But it is ridiculous to see how people flock to something "new and interesting"... I know that sounds naive but I guess that is the same story about anything new in life really.

No youre right people are going to go to something new and interesting, but there is a difference between new and interesting and "Oh, that character is top tier, I'll main him." I think its safe to say that if you only main top tier characters, you've missed the point of the Super Smash Brothers Franchise. In fact, you might just take the game a little too seriously.

 

[Ghost07]

The Exact same happens with me when people see how good i am with him...i hate it...i really picked him just because i like starfox...and i think he is a cool character...and now every one criticizes me about it...

Same here with Falco. "You're cheating cause you using a top tier.""Man his spike is so cheap." I hate when people say thing like that and get mad. It's not my fault. I didn't make the game I just like the character.

 

[Relhots]

No youre right people are going to go to something new and interesting, but there is a difference between new and interesting and "Oh, that character is top tier, I'll main him." I think its safe to say that if you only main top tier characters, you've missed the point of the Super Smash Brothers Franchise. In fact, you might just take the game a little too seriously.

I think that is the stupidest thing ever...i don't get why people don't main characters they like...they'll enjoy the game more that way...

 

[sahilio]

And these are all reasons why I hope a tier list is never really needed for brawl. It is a possibility.

Honestly, tier lists for Melee might have been accurate. But so far from playing Brawl, I don't think a list in needed at all. Like i said before, maybe a list that just states who is easier to use and get used to, but not who is better, because brawl really works off of the PLAYER not the character.



BTW Ghost... I hope you are still maining Falco then over Wolf?

 

[raul]

I think that is the stupidest thing ever...i don't get why people don't main characters they like...they'll enjoy the game more that way...

I'll tell you why. People get way too involved in the game. If its for competitive play with money involved thats one thing, but if you cant play a character that isnt top tier simply to have fun, you need to go outside and get some oxygen to the brain.

I like the idea of tier and I think it is interesting on all the work that goes into making them, but this game is more than just competitive play. Its about having fun with friends and watching ridiculous and hysterical things happen. To simply use a top tier character because he/she is top tier is sad, to me at least.

 

[Relhots]

And these are all reasons why I hope a tier list is never really needed for brawl. It is a possibility.

Honestly, tier lists for Melee might have been accurate. But so far from playing Brawl, I don't think a list in needed at all. Like i said before, maybe a list that just states who is easier to use and get used to, but not who is better, because brawl really works off of the PLAYER not the character.

Yeah...i agree...its the player, never the character...just look at the pros who play as ness...or gimpyfish...

 

[raul]

And these are all reasons why I hope a tier list is never really needed for brawl. It is a possibility.

Honestly, tier lists for Melee might have been accurate. But so far from playing Brawl, I don't think a list in needed at all. Like i said before, maybe a list that just states who is easier to use and get used to, but not who is better, because brawl really works off of the PLAYER not the character.

I agree with you 100% but someone is out there creating the tiers right now, researching each character and playing hours of Brawl. What I would like to see is a player to character success ratio. What type of players win more with character x and so forth.

 

[sahilio]

Even that Raul.. I hope it changes. Even on a competitive level, each character in Brawl should be able to do work on the competitive level. I don't see why not. Sure some may be faster than others, but a character should be able to make up for that. That would be true competitive nature.

It's like those racing games, a lot of cars have different acceleration, an example would be, a car with really BAD acceleration... the car makes up for it with amazing top speed or amazing handling.

 

[Relhots]

I agree with you 100% but someone is out there creating the tiers right now, researching each character and playing hours of Brawl. What I would like to see is a player to character success ratio. What type of players win more with character x and so forth.

Tier lists are the downfall of Super Smash Bros...

 

[sahilio]

They are. Without a doubt. I feel bad for the people who are new to the game who read them and feel bad because they think they are doing the wrong thing not using the top tier. And I KNOW that all of you have felt like that about SOMETHING in life, whether it be in games or even a new car.

 

[Relhots]

They are. Without a doubt. I feel bad for the people who are new to the game who read them and feel bad because they think they are doing the wrong thing not using the top tier. And I KNOW that all of you have felt like that about SOMETHING in life, whether it be in games or even a new car.

I felt like that when i first started bowling i felt that way...cause i didn't have my own bowling ball...and its not the bowling ball that gets the good scores...

 

[sahilio]

Haha as ridiculous as that sounds.. that is exactly right... which is why I really hope wolf doesn't become something like the "ideal bowling ball"

 

[Ghost07]

BTW Ghost... I hope you are still maining Falco then over Wolf?

Nope, Wolf has been my favorite since 64. I mained falco since he was the next best thing.
Wolf and Snake will most likely be my Brawl mains and then maybe falco.

 

[Relhots]

Haha as ridiculous as that sounds.. that is exactly right... which is why I really hope wolf doesn't become something like the "ideal bowling ball"

Most little kids that i teach bowling to are like that with many things...

some try to slide like me, some try to hook the ball alot, some try to throw it hard, some try to use the "best bowling ball"...i always tell them "its not the bowling ball/slide/hook that gets the good scores, its the bowlers..."

 

[sahilio]

fair enough

Man I just hope people realize every character is actually pretty darn decent in brawl.

 

[raul]

Even that Raul.. I hope it changes. Even on a competitive level, each character in Brawl should be able to do work on the competitive level. I don't see why not. Sure some may be faster than others, but a character should be able to make up for that. That would be true competitive nature.

It's like those racing games, a lot of cars have different acceleration, an example would be, a car with really BAD acceleration... the car makes up for it with amazing top speed or amazing handling.

I think the characters are like as you described, but I think also that we need to develop a way to play the game where tiers dont mean a **** thing. For example, if more people played with items on, tiers wouldnt mean anything. Items changed the entire scope of the game depending on which item appears.

For example, let's say two players are playing SSB Melee and one guy is Donkey Kong and the other is Fox. Fox has advantages of speed and having a projectile (he has more but for the example he only has those for right now). Donkey Kong is slow and has no projectile. Thus, it seems Fox could attack from a distance and escape DK every time he got close. DK's power is not going to win him the match. BUT let's say bunny ears fall down and all of the sudden for brief moment, DK can tangle with Fox since the speed is not so much of a factor anymore or maybe a ray gun falls down and evens up the projectile playing field.

It's not the best example, but the point is items can even the odds just as well as tip the balance in favor of one character or another. If more people played with items, tiers and character attributes would mean less and more emphasis would be placed on the player's skill, skill with items and of course luck.

 

[Ghost07]

I think the characters are like as you described, but I think also that we need to develop a way to play the game where tiers dont mean a **** thing. For example, if more people played with items on, tiers wouldnt mean anything. Items changed the entire scope of the game depending on which item appears.

For example, let's say two players are playing SSB Melee and one guy is Donkey Kong and the other is Fox. Fox has advantages of speed and having a projectile (he has more but for the example he only has those for right now). Donkey Kong is slow and has no projectile. Thus, it seems Fox could attack from a distance and escape DK every time he got close. DK's power is not going to win him the match. BUT let's say bunny ears fall down and all of the sudden for brief moment, DK can tangle with Fox since the speed is not so much of a factor anymore or maybe a ray gun falls down and evens up the projectile playing field.

It's not the best example, but the point is items can even the odds just as well as tip the balance in favor of one character or another. If more people played with items, tiers and character attributes would mean less and more emphasis would be placed on the player's skill, skill with items and of course luck.

Even without the bunny hood DK can slay fox because of fox's fast fallng weight.
check this out. one of my favorite vids.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyqxyN4NhBo

 

[sahilio]

yeah, I mean I totally agree. That would also make it so much more fun. But "pros" would consider it way too random for their taste... but I honestly still think it takes GOOD movement to get to the item and defend an item and even using some of them in a clever way can show help prove a player being good at the game.

 

[Sonic_Wolf]

Not that it is a problem. He is a pretty solid character and executes really well in the air.

Although...it seems like since he was announced as the last character, the hype was so large that people have been focusing on him so much (with videos and whatnot) that everyone thinks he will be the leader of the so called "tiers".

I personally think tiers are ridiculous and just ruin the game.

Seems like the most played characters will be wolf, sonic and perhaps even toon link.


(I have the game btw...and do agree Wolf is a solid character, but not "better" than all the others, just different ways to utilize his different play style)

Im with you, tiers really ruin the game and i hope people dont make the tier lists.

 

[Ghost07]

Im with you, tiers really ruin the game and i hope people dont make the tier lists.

Too bad thats not gong to happen. It's just up to us to conform to the list or not. The best way to play SSB is to play with your fav. char./playstyle. I could care less about the tier list but it does give you insight on where your char is ranked.

 

[raul]

Too bad thats not gong to happen. It's just up to us to conform to the list or not. The best way to play SSB is to play with your fav. char./playstyle. I could care less about the tier list but it does give you insight on where your char is ranked.

Couldnt agree with you more. I doubt Wolf will be over used because I cant see him being in the top tier because I dont think he has great speed and alot of speed characters make top tier, but whatever we'll see what happens.

 

[Maph]

I think the characters are like as you described, but I think also that we need to develop a way to play the game where tiers dont mean a **** thing. For example, if more people played with items on, tiers wouldnt mean anything. Items changed the entire scope of the game depending on which item appears.

For example, let's say two players are playing SSB Melee and one guy is Donkey Kong and the other is Fox. Fox has advantages of speed and having a projectile (he has more but for the example he only has those for right now). Donkey Kong is slow and has no projectile. Thus, it seems Fox could attack from a distance and escape DK every time he got close. DK's power is not going to win him the match. BUT let's say bunny ears fall down and all of the sudden for brief moment, DK can tangle with Fox since the speed is not so much of a factor anymore or maybe a ray gun falls down and evens up the projectile playing field.

It's not the best example, but the point is items can even the odds just as well as tip the balance in favor of one character or another. If more people played with items, tiers and character attributes would mean less and more emphasis would be placed on the player's skill, skill with items and of course luck.

Hold up. Are you suggesting we turn items on in professional play? That completely undermines the purpose of trying to find out who's better among the contestants, and then handing them a large sum of money. Even so this will do little to eliminate tiers. Each character also uses items differently. Fox, for instance, is the slowest walker while carrying a crate or barrel, while DK is the fastest. Different characters also have different item pick up, and throw speeds. Let's not forget the different way the melee items are used (fan, bat, beam sword etc.) Mewtwo happens to be one of the best item users for how far he throws them, and for the way he uses melee items.

What you suggest does nothing to eliminate tiers. It changes the tiers around a bit, and makes professional play nearly pointless, ESPECIALLY now that we have FS's.

Putting emphasis on random chance is very hard to do well, and all but impossible in a fighter.

 

[PyroRyuken]

The Exact same happens with me when people see how good i am with him...i hate it...i really picked him just because i like starfox...and i think he is a cool character...and now every one criticizes me about it...

It happens a lot. I use Sheik, because I like her as a character, not because she is a top teir character. I was afraid of useing her when I first started playing because my freind said she was broken and cheap. I didn't start using her until I was bored of every other character on the game and wanted to try someone new. As for Wolf being overused, I'm the only one out of all my freinds at school who is even interested in maining him, so it seems unlikely.

 

[Darkslash]

Been using Fox and Mario from SSB. But now I might Stick to just Star Fox series. Dunno but Falco moves are more Devastating now XD

 

[White_Lightning]

I have no trouble believing Wolf will be a popular character. Just look at the poll here http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141091 he's currently in fourth place. Not to mention how large his forum here on SWF is, despite only being around for a week. I know using these forums isn't the best way to measure how often people will use him, but I've also seen plenty of Youtube videos with Wolf and I have no trouble believing he'll end up as a high-tier character.

 

[Swords]

Well with wave dashing gone, I think it comes to the character's appearance when people decide to main them. If they also have a good move set with them, they'll surely be popular at first , but I'm sure with wave dashing gone, it'll be favorites vs favorites XP

 

[Maph]

Well with wave dashing gone, I think it comes to the character's appearance when people decide to main them. If they also have a good move set with them, they'll surely be popular at first , but I'm sure with wave dashing gone, it'll be favorites vs favorites XP

Could you please explain how you've reached this conclusion. I'm afraid I don't understand what wavedashing has to do with character selection.