Wolf Combo Thread! (Testers would be nice, btw...)

[Ishiey]

JCav wanted me to do something cool with post 1000, but since he went to bed a mere 5 minutes before I was going to post it, he gets this less entertaining thread instead
(actually, it's because there's an image cap of 260 per post so I couldn't fit in 1000 Arcanines... )

WOLF COMBO THREAD​

As we all know, Wolf is a character in Brawl, a game where combos don exits.


Wait, that’s not right. Let me try this again.

As we all know, Wolf is a character in Star Fox Assault Brawl, who has several useful combos to take advantage of. This thread will list all of the known combos for Wolf, all of the combos that are still in testing that need to be verified, and all of the debunked combos. It will also have %s for combos, taken on Mario in training mode, unless the combo in question involves stale moves or is up for serious debate. There will also be character specific combos, such as fthrow > buffered dtilt (trip) > stutterstepped fsmash on DeDeDe and Bowser (cause JJ likes to look cool).

To get an understanding of the different kinds of hitstun, please see this thread. Below is a small summary by SelfPosessed about True hitstun and Tumblestun.

>> Quick Summary <<

True hitstun combos are extremely hard to escape as they can't do anything aside from MAYBE SDI (they can't DI normally). These are reliable overall. We should see if Wolf has any extendable true hitstun combos like ZSS's dash attack lock. Basically, if a move has enough true histun but doesn't knock the opponent too far from the ground, they are forced to land, which gives you free landing frames to combo with. These true combos won't show up in the training mode consecutive hit meter. I think this is the basis for how using Shine on an aerial opponent gives you greater combo opportunities. There's also the possibility of a combo that forces an opponent to land on a platform above you.

Tumblestun combos, on the other hand, can be airdodged and attacked out of early (attacks come out later than airdodge though). However, if their only option to escape a followup Bair is to airdodge, you get a guaranteed attack once they come out of airdodge. That's technically a combo too then as you'll either get the first or second followup attack.

Anyways, this combo thread is a community project. If you think something is a combo, post it (and preferably test it, if you don’t someone else will, and if someone else doesn’t I will… eventually). If you think something else isn’t a combo, say so AFTER YOU HAVE TRIED IT OUT, and we will try to get further testing. If you can verify the %s at which a combo works, post your training mode results on Mario and they will be put in the OP. Feel free to test a combo that’s already posted though, double-checking never hurt anyone >_>


Also, be sure to test on both a cpu AND human Mario in training mode… because sometimes training mode likes to be a **** and register random things as combos. Just to make sure. Have the human Mario try to DI out of the combo and everything while testing, please.


Here are some terms you will see in this thread, for those of you who are not familiar with smash terminology:

Buffered – means an attack that is input within the last 10 frames before a previous attack ends, allowing the initial attack to come out on the first available frame. Basically, makes sure that you perform a move ASAP.
SHFF – stands for Short Hop Fast Fall… exactly what it sounds like. Associated with aerials, ex SHFF bair. Combos that involve a shff move will have %s taken on when the move’s hitbox comes out one frame before landing, so depending on your timing the combo might not be guaranteed at the high or low ends of the % range. Just like SH, FH stands for Full Hop.


Combos will be grouped according to which move they start with. After that, the format is as follows:

Initial attack > second attack (> another attack, if applicable) - % damage done - True combo (cannot be DI’d out of), combo, pseudocombo, or not a combo
(if a regular combo or not a combo, how it is escapable) (if not a combo, will be left at this)
% initially possible – last % possible
Notes (stale moves, buffers, sweetspots, trips, etc. Might have more detailed information too, whatever I feel is necessary)


What's posted as of now are things that I believe are combos off the top of my head (unsure will have a (?)). They will be updated when I'm not tired/busy or if anyone else wants to go ahead and verify it. So by all means, please test these out while I'm busy being sleep deprived ._.

In case anyone wants to know, the colors are purple and pink, because Wolf is a pimp. Speaking of which, we need a pimp Wolf icon to be made as well. Anyways, enough useless babble, it's time for...

WOLF'S COMBOS​

Dtilt

This move can only combo after a trip, and it all depends on the spacing/slide length of the opponent. However, you cannot trip Mario past 24%, because the type of hitstun changes from him sliding on his knees to tumbling somewhat in the air. The following combos are possible after a trip:

Dtilt (trip) > boost smash

Dtilt (trip) > fsmash (stutter step if necessary, usually only tipper)

After the following %s, characters change hitstun again and collapse on the floor if they miss the tech:

OK, I tested the lowest possible % for each character. Zelda and Sheik have the same %, which proves that weight is the key factor. I didn't test what the highest possible % is though because that requires me to have a second player trying everything. I guess it works for around ~10% but I'm also pretty sure that fall speed matters ... the higher the fall speed, the longer it works

67% ... Bowser
66% ... Donkey Kong
65% ... Snake, King Dedede
64% ... Ganondorf, Charizard
63% ... Wario, R.O.B, Samus, Yoshi
62% ... Link, Ike, Captain Falcon
61% ... Wolf, Ivysaur, Lucario
60% ... Mario, Luigi
59% ... Pit, Ness, Sonic, Lucas
58% ... Diddy Kong, Ice Climbers, Toon Link
57% ... Peach
56% ... Zelda, Sheik, Marth
55% ... Falco, Olimar
54% ... Fox, Meta Knight, Pikachu, ZSS
53% ... Kirby
52% ... Squirtle, Mr. G&W
50% ... Jigglypuff

Nair

From what I can tell, the strong hit of nair changes into tumblestun after Mario is at 24%, allowing him to airdodge earlier and get out of possible follow-ups.

Notes on the weak "combo" hit:

I know the secret to comboing with nair Or at least, I think I do...

Omniswell was right, sort of. SHFF nair is the main way we will be able to implement nair combos. The reason shff nair combos is because the second to last hit that comes out, upon connecting, causes enough stun and puts you in a perfect position to hit with the very beginning of the last hit that comes out (because you can DI into their hurtbox during the limited stun time). Also, you'll hit very close to your landing time, obviously making it easier to combo. As far as I've been able to tell, it works starting at 0% ON EVERY CHARACTER, although it is much easier to do it at higher %s because the stun time increases. Not sure at what % you can get it to combo into jab (fastest move) though.

Basically, think of nair as the four (idk, I think it's 4, might be 5 but that won't come out during a SH) seperate hits. Each hit has the first frame of the hitbox (the stronger hit that allows you to combo or the very first hit of the move with significant knockback) and all the other frames of that "hit" will be weak hits. If you hit with the opening hitbox for any attack, you can combo.

I'm pretty sure this is correct. Just thought you guys should know. Feel free to test it further and whatever if you don't believe me.

Nair to utilt ****ing combos (or at least on Snake starting at 100%). I told you JJ

Nair (strong hit before landing) > dsmash - 22% - TRUE COMBO
0% - 23%

Nair (weak hit before landing) > dsmash

Nair (strong hit before landing) > jab - 17% - TRUE COMBO
0% - 35%

Nair (weak hit before landing) > jab

Nair (strong hit before landing) > ftilt - -TRUE COMBO
0% - 23%
Notes: At higher %s it requires more of a slide to get both hits.

Nair (strong hit before landing) > dtilt - 14% - TRUE COMBO
0% - 23%

Nair (strong hit before landing) > utilt - 18% - TRUE COMBO
0% - 14%
Notes: Might go for a few more %, but buffering this crap is a pain. I don't have frame hacks to make nair come out 1 frame before landing and then utilt, so I'll leave it like this for now.

Nair (strong hit before landing) > hyphen usmash (?)

Nair (strong hit before landing) > fsmash - - TRUE COMBO
0% - 23%
Notes: Depending on spacing and whatnot, might get only one or both hits of fsmash.

Nair (strong hit before landing) > buffered dash attack - 17% - TRUE COMBO
0% - 23%

Nair (strong hit before landing) > dashgrab
Notes: This can probably get them during landing lag, but isn't tested yet. It doesn't seem to work as well as regular grab though.

Nair (weak hit before landing) > buffered grab - 8% - TRUE COMBO
0% - 23%


Bair

FH rising Bair > uair

FH rising Bair > FF bair

SHFF Bair > jab
0% -

SHFF Bair > fsmash

SHFF Bair > grab

SHFF Bair > dashgrab (?)

SHFF Bair > boost smash

SHFF Bair > ftilt
0% -

SHFF Bair > dtilt

SHFF Bair > shine (?)

SHFF Bair > dsmash
0% -

Uair

SHFF Uair > jab

SHFF Uair > utilt - 22% - TRUE COMBO
0% -

SHFF Uair > ftilt

SHFF Uair > usmash

SHFF Uair > fsmash

SHFF Uair > nair - 20% - TRUE COMBO
0% -

SHFF Uair > fair

SHFF Uair > bair

SHFF Uair > shine - 15% - TRUE COMBO
0% - 24%
Notes: Harder to pull off at extremes of range

SHFF Uair > shine > jab/dtilt

SHFF Uair > grab - TRUE COMBO
0% -


Shine

Shine > jab combo - 12% - TRUE COMBO
ALL %s

Shine > grab
Conditions: opponent must be in range, so either use against a wall or in a SH while DIing towards your opponent.

Shine > dsmash (?)
Conditions: opponent must be airborne after hit from shine.

Shine > buffered dtilt

SH Shine > nair

FH Shine > bair (?)


Dair

NOTES ON DAIR (there are a lot, I know, but they are definitely important):
All combos are taken on a standing CPU with the dair coming out as close to landing as possible (delayed SHFF is how I did this).
There are two variations of dair. One does 15% and is stronger, the other (less common one) does 13% and less knockback, but I can’t tell if there’s much difference in stun (frame data testers??). The weak dair hitbox seems to be near the top where wolf raises his claws at the beginning of the animation, but I’m not sure. All %s will be strong dair unless otherwise mentioned.
Dair has a decent trip rate starting around 20% ish (need to test further), which decreases as %s increase I believe. It seems to be more frequent when you time the dair to hit earlier than preferred. This can help for combos, and does not seem to be a random trip. It also has a good stun growth (or whatever it’s called), so your window for combos will increase as % increases.
Mario bounces off of the ground from dair at 39%. Past this %, there are no true combos because they can airdodge out into the ground, and MAYBE use a very quick aerial to hit you first (can’t test that atm). However, you can easily punish this airdodge with something like jab or nair, possibly even using the nair to combo them as you hit when they land. Testing wouold be nice.
At the beginning, it’s possible to see a difference in hitstun. When Mario goes down on his knees, there is generally more stun and you will be more likely to combo him.

Dair > utilt - Not a combo

Dair > usmash - Not a combo

Dair > jab - 18% (just first hit) to 24% (full combo) - TRUE COMBO
20% - 38%

Dair > dtilt - 21% - TRUE COMBO
25% - 38%
Notes: This doesn't seem to have any trip potential at all, just for the record.

Dair > ftilt - 20% (just first hit) - 26% (both hits) - TRUE COMBO
33% - 38%
Notes: Seems to have better success with downwards angled ftilt (?) Sometimes the first hit will connect and trip (down angle), whiffing the second hit. Maybe this can extend the combo with a boost smash/fsmash (?) (if so, definitely has to be buffered)

Dair > grab (?)


Throws

NOTES ON THROWS: The only throw that combos is fthrow. ONLY. So I'm not going to mention the others.

Fthrow > buffered dtilt (trip) > stutterstepped fsmash
Characters: DeDeDe (0-2%), Bowser (0-30%) (This is from JJ, for those who don't know)
Notes: Buffering the dtilt is important. Should trip them 100% of the time.

Air release > side B (This needs verification for true combo status, I think it might be... Frame data? I have other relevant links, I'll get them later)
Characters: here

Air release > boost smash/stutterstepped fsmash
Characters: MK, Lucas (?) (might work on others) (any %)

Ground break > buffered regrab/dashgrab
Characters: Ness (any %)

Ground break > fsmash
Characters: Ness, Lucas (any %)

Ground break > dsmash (there are other moves, but idr them so I'll leave that until testing)
Characters: Ness (any %)

Air release > aerial/regrab/jumpshine (? for some options)
Characters: Wario (and Jigglypuff... or at least, it should be since they have the same air break animation iirc) (any %)
Conditions: Characters must not have double jump. If it works on Jigglypuff, she should be able to rest out of it, but that's not a great option either.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


That's what I have for now. Any help would be appreciated, and I'll try to get some of this filled out on my own time. Hopefully this thread taught some of you a thing or two, or at least gave you a few ideas to try out

And for those of you that think this is too crappy to be my actual 1000th post. You're right... for now. I have plenty of other ideas that I plan on putting into this thread. So many, that I should probably reserve a few posts. But, screw that.

I leave you with one last word of advice: Don't hesitate. When the time comes, just act.

That, and looking cool > winning.

 

[castorpollux]

you forgot ground break -> fsmash on lucas too

 

[/~Dogma~\]

jcav should take a look at this.............................

but no good stuff i liked looking at all these

good job

 

[ArcPoint]

Can we name like a percent range where this stuff works?

And you can't deny the waffle. It's part of Wofl...I mean Wolf.

Edit: Can you also be more specific about what you're doing with the moves for the initial hit? Like some of the first few Bair ones I have no clue. Are you rising? Falling? SH rising? FH rising?

 

[Ishiey]

@ Castor - Aight, I'll get that in. Does dsmash also work on lucas, or does he slide too far? I haven't tested buffered regrab on him either, but that might be possible as well.

@ Arc - Lol... that's what's going to happen. Feel free to test it yourself and post results here, I don't have all the %s yet but I'm going to start them as soon as I can. I don't have a friend to help me out though, so most of what I have will be going off of training mode crap (I'll mark it so that it's identified as incomplete).

I'm also going to edit the bair ones so that they're more specific, such as FH rising bair > uair, and FH rising bair > FF bair > FH rising bair > FF bair > FH rising bair > FF bair > FH rising bair But yeah, other things that are unclear as to why the move works will be posted as conditions when I have more time.

(not denying the waffle, just daring to be different )

 

[Semifer]

Ah, that's familiar stuff =).

Here is some more, tested this in training mode by shielding with the CPU Mario.

Nair (strong hit before landing) > Dtilt, (dash) grab and Ftilt confirmed

Nair (strong hit before landing) > Fsmash, hyphen Usmash (!) and instant dash attack work as well

SH FF Uair > grab, Ftilt and jab confirmed

SH FF Uair > Nair, Fair, Fsmash, shine and Bair also work

SH FF Uair > shine > (!) jab/Dtilt - longest string with different moves yet!

Afaik castor said in another thread that he is 100% sure that shine > Dtilt works against every char.

And shine to grab does not only work against walls, aerial shine with DI to the opponent combos into grab at least against Bowser and DK, haven't tested more yet.


More input will follow later I think.

edit: @Ishy: Lucas slides too far to get hit by the Dsmash, but Dtilt and dash grab should work.

 

[Ishiey]

Sweet, thanks Semifer I'll add those in right away.

And I know that JJ said shine > dtilt works, but... if that's true, why do the CPUs always PS my dsmash, which is supposedly one frame faster? I don't know, I just found it a bit illogical... Thanks for the additional testing though, chances are I'm just buffering wrong.

 

[SelfPossessed]

1) Once the 1000th post thing loses its novelty, change the title to something more obvious and helpful. It's fine for now though.

2) We need pics and/or videos of these combos. The initial hit of the combo oftentimes has to be hit with a specific part of a move. Having a visual reference for that would be extremely helpful.

3) I think a combo thread like this NEEDS to differentiate true hitstun and tumblestun. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242218 for further reading. We need to know at what percents each type of stun happens. In essence, we need to define Wolf's "combo zones."

>> Quick Summary <<

True hitstun combos are extremely hard to escape as they can't do anything aside from MAYBE SDI (they can't DI normally). These are reliable overall. We should see if Wolf has any extendable true hitstun combos like ZSS's dash attack lock. Basically, if a move has enough true histun but doesn't knock the opponent too far from the ground, they are forced to land, which gives you free landing frames to combo with. These true combos won't show up in the training mode consecutive hit meter. I think this is the basis for how using Shine on an aerial opponent gives you greater combo opportunities. There's also the possibility of a combo that forces an opponent to land on a platform above you.

Tumblestun combos, on the other hand, can be airdodged and attacked out of early (attacks come out later than airdodge though). However, if their only option to escape a followup Bair is to airdodge, you get a guaranteed attack once they come out of airdodge. That's technically a combo too then as you'll either get the first or second followup attack.

 

[Ishiey]

1) Yep, I'm keeping that in mind.

2) ... that would be great... but I don't have any way of getting videos at the moment. If anyone else can record the combos, that would be great. Otherwise, I'll find a way to make it work out, eventually.

3) Yeah, I'll put that link in there, along with your summary. Is anyone able to test that for Wolf's moves?



EDIT: Okay, did some stuff on dair. Interesting, seems training mode lied to me before about utilt and usmash

I'm testing at 1/4th speed, does anyone know of any negative effects that might result because of this?

And another edit... I don't have anything to back it up, but are we POSITIVE that dthrow to jab against a wall isn't a combo (at %s where they slide)? I just did it to a computer olimar like 5 times, idk. If only I had frame hacks

 

[Semifer]

Sweet, thanks Semifer I'll add those in right away.

And I know that JJ said shine > dtilt works, but... if that's true, why do the CPUs always PS my dsmash, which is supposedly one frame faster? I don't know, I just found it a bit illogical... Thanks for the additional testing though, chances are I'm just buffering wrong.

You have 4 frames advantage after a shine.
Dtilt hits on frame 4.
Dsmash on frame 6.

So I don't see why this shouldn't work^^.
And Dtilt has more range than jab, so it hits most Chars after a grounded shine, and if the Dtilt causes a trip you can maybe follow up with a stutter step Fsmash, not sure if the Fsmash connects cause you mostly hit with the very tip of the Dtilt after a grounded shine.

Very interesting Dair stuff btw, didn't expect that the stun on the ground is high enough to combo.

And a small tipp: If you jump shine and then buffer a Dair the hitbox comes out right before landing, it must be almost frame perfect cause it's the only way to destroy the target in BtT Level 3 right under you at the beginning. No matter how hard I try to time this (and I'm pretty good at this), I can't do that without the help of a jump shine.

So Dair could be a good follow up and combo starter after a jump shine at those percents^^.

 

[Scaphist]

Has anyone tested the weak bair hit(the one that does 9%) for combos? Not sure if it's known at all but according to training mode it combos well on mid percents. On Rob I managed to get it to say it combo'd up until about 70% max. Olimar was like 30% or something.

In order to get the weak back air hit you must be moving forward then bair landing on the opponent with your shoulder area and not with the actual kick. It's key to be moving forward so that when you land you're that much closer to them.

I managed to link the bairs into jab, downsmash, and forwardsmash. At lower percents a buffered dash grab might also work. Didn't test boost smash.

I tested this only against a level 9 cpu so I have no idea what DI does to these combos and since brawls training mode lies sometimes these could totally be useless in a real match. I'll go test it again to make sure I didn't just halucinate it all.

Edit: I should probably mention that fast falling helps a lot for it and that getting the 9% hit can be tricky because the move has 4 different parts of the hitbox that do different knockback/percent(9%, 10,%, 11%, 13%).

After a quick test I found(on Rob again only) that it can link into downtilt and dash attack. I tested boost smash as well and couldn't get it to combo but that doesn't mean it's not possible(might just have to change the percent)

 

[Ishiey]

D: Wow, I'm completely ********. Lol thanks Semifer, don't know how I messed that one up... I use that jumpshine > dair thing though, I'd say it's probably the best way of actually attempting to land the dair. Don't think you need to do it instantly though, I think it depends on when you start your fast fall. Good call with that though lol. See, stuff like this is why I think highly of you, even though you don't post much or anything

@ Scaphist: I don't think anyone's tested them, but I know for a fact that the weak hit works, just not sure about the %s or anything... Overall though, the weak hit is a lot harder to hit with and less rewarding than the strong hit, so I don't see why you would attempt to use it.

 

[SelfPossessed]

>> Scaphist <<

It seems like all the combos you can get with weak Bair also work with a stronger Bair (just have to make it improperly spaced). Keep testing though; if you find a good combo specific to weak Bair, that would be great.

Also note that at mid percents, Bair may send the opponent into tumblestun instead of true hitstun. That means that opponents can airdodge early. There's a chance that weak Bair's combo zone is at a higher threshold, which could make it preferable over stronger Bair at those percents. Again, this is all untested.

>> Ishieymoro <<

The usefulness of the combo isn't in question though. Find the combos first regardless of how useful it is. Someone might later find a way to apply it.

I'd also suggest making a legend with color schemes depicting true combos, untested combos, and busted combos.

I hope Dair combos work out well. Note that if an opponent is in the air, there's a higher chance of them escaping the full Jab combo.

There also needs to be more footstool testing. Dair to footstool to Nair lock? *shrugs* At the very least, add footstool combos under SH FF Uair.

 

[Ishiey]

Well, the thing is, I just don't see any reason whatsoever as to doing a SHFF bair with the front elbow, it's just so impractical and illogical to me. You are right though, a combo is a combo, and should be noted. But I'm not going to do testing for %s on weak bair until everything else is completed ._. If someone else wants to go ahead and get the results and put it in the format though, that would be great.

That color scheme idea is good, I'll get that done tomorrow I suppose. Would definitely make this thing less of an eyesore...

Yeah, all of these are on a grounded opponent. If the opponent is in the air, I guess it depends on if they tech and the speed of their character's tech/rolls but you could in essence combo them under ideal circumstances.

Footstool combos... Completely forgot about those. I will put that in tomorrow as well, but I'll need someone else to test if they're guaranteed or not, on both a CPU and a human, as well as get %s.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

I'm not as inclined to the boards as I once was, and I'm sure that I'd suck as a tester, but good work on creating the thread. I'm going to be busy with college and writing.

On a side note, it needs more color!

Author Asaph: U, lyk, must make sure that your grammar and spelling is...correct.

And a word of advice, needs moar woffls.

I'll leave you guys to improve the boards. Good work.

 

[JCav]

sorry i havent posted yet, but it was good. i learned a thing or two

 

[ArcPoint]

I need to get to a thousand posts and then make a completely useless thread o.O

Has anyone investigated the weak hits of Nair to Dsmash? Omniswell assures us that it's a combo on the shrimp characters.

 

[JCav]

ok properties of nair


first hit i wouldnt be surprised if it hits on frame 2 and if the hitbox would only last like 2 frames

next 3 hits are the ones that all do 1% and no knockback

last hit does 3%, has knockback. im pretty sure it is impossible to get this hibox out on a SH

as far as last hit nair-down smash, i dont really think its a true combo but the frame advantage is very close

 

[Semifer]

On the two outer platforms of BF (and I think also on others), when you do a FH Nair the last hit of the Nair comes out right before landing, but I haven't tested if it comboes inte Dtilt, jab, Dsmash etc. I could get some Dsmash kills with this, so a good possibility to make use of that last hit of the Nair^^.

btw: SH FF Uair > shine > Dtilt > stutter step Fsmash if opp trips
Forgot about the possibility to follow up with an Fsmash after a Dtilt yesterday^^.

 

[Ishiey]

@ JCav: yeah, that's how it usually goes... but I swear I've been able to get it out of a SH sometimes... I'm going to test it further tomorrow, since my TV will be occupied by parents the rest of the day >_>

@ Semifer: I'll try that out, it might actually be a good choice. Nair has decent shield push with the first hit so maybe you can also knock them off of the platform for a nair lock or something. I'll update the OP after I do some testing on it.

And also, do you have to fsmash the trip, or can you boost smash it without giving them time to escape? Iirc, some characters can get up from trips quicker, so it might depend on the character...

 

[Semifer]

I just noticed that the last hit of the Nair comes out in a SH, and if you use Nair very near to your opp but not that near, that the first strong hit hits and if you DI straight into the opp with the Nair it will mostly hit, and it seems to combo at high percents (~100%-~165%) into Dsmash, hyphen Usmash, Fsmash jab, Dtilt, Ftilt and dash grab.
Another possibility to hit with the last hit is to FH, use Nair shortly before reaching the peak of the FH and then FF in the right moment. It's tricky but possible.
And try to land behind you opp with the Nair, then you are less punishable by most Chars. In addition you follow the direction of the KB which the last hit of the Nair effects, that's why you can hit with Dsmash, jab and hyphen Usmash although they are knocked away doubled as wide as the range of those moves.

 

[Ishiey]

Man, I've been lazy... for the record, shff bair combos into ftilt, dsmash, and jab (depending on the distance the whole combo may or may not connect) at 0%. Didn't test dtilt because I was sucking, but that should work too, and if dsmash and ftilt worked so should reflector. I'm not sure what frame the bayonet comes out, but it seems to be pretty quick so I'll test that out later. I'll also test out Semifer's information, but my parents just got blu-ray so the TV will be hard to get...

 

[Semifer]

Fair combos!
At very low percents:

SH AC Fair > grab

SH AC Fair > jab

I'm sure there are more but I couldn't test it yet.

And there is:

SH shine with DI to opponent > Nair (at low percents: > Fsmash)

Aerial shine > Bair/Fair/Nair

At my testings Bair to Fsmash could at 0% always be power shieldet btw, and I used the Bair just before landing...

 

[Ishiey]

O.O Fair combos???? I could've sworn that I've never had it come up as a combo before.... interesting. I'll test %s later today and post it up.

Wait, so you got aerial shine to combo too?! Madness. I thought shine only had a 4 frame advantage, and bair/fair come out on 6?... Well, with the startup of airdodges it would hit people, I assume... did it show up as 2 consecutive attacks on training mode?

Yeah, bair > fsmash doesn't work at 0% That's why we have bair > jab/ftilt/dtilt/dsmash lol. I believe JJ said it starts working at 3%

 

[MidnightAsaph]

I'm sure there are more but I couldn't test it yet.

SH shine with DI to opponent > Nair (at low percents: > Fsmash)

Aerial shine > Bair/Fair/Nair

Is fair > utilt still a combo?

SH shine > fsmash seems very unlikely.

And I don't understand how aerial shine > bair/fair/nair works. How close to ground? Where is the opponent? That kind of stuff.

 

[Semifer]

Is fair > utilt still a combo?

SH shine > fsmash seems very unlikely.

And I don't understand how aerial shine > bair/fair/nair works. How close to ground? Where is the opponent? That kind of stuff.

1. I'll test this today.

2. Ah, that was a missunderstanding, I meant if you get the SH shine > Nair combo down, you can follow up with an Fsmash at low percents.

3. Yeah, I thought I have to explain, but I was too lazy =P.
Well, just if you get a FH shine, offstage shine or DJ shine and the opp is in range, you can follow up with that stuff.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying. After a couple friends test this, or maybe they won't, but try doing nair to shine (all the nair hits of to connect, and at high percentages, all but the first have to connect). Anyone, see if that works if you want to do it. I'm going to test that as well.

 

[Semifer]

O.O Fair combos???? I could've sworn that I've never had it come up as a combo before.... interesting. I'll test %s later today and post it up.

Wait, so you got aerial shine to combo too?! Madness. I thought shine only had a 4 frame advantage, and bair/fair come out on 6?... Well, with the startup of airdodges it would hit people, I assume... did it show up as 2 consecutive attacks on training mode?

Yeah, bair > fsmash doesn't work at 0% That's why we have bair > jab/ftilt/dtilt/dsmash lol. I believe JJ said it starts working at 3%

Oh sry Ishy, I've just seen your post xD.
Yeah I tested those Fair combos with a friend (offline of course), at first I told him to try to get out as hard as he can with AD, then by jumping, but he couldn't, so I did it with the shine stuff.
And it really looks like a combo, if done correctly the attack comes out pretty fast after the Fair, exspecially if you do SH FF AC Fairs.
But today I couldn't do more testings sadly... hm I hope SH FF Uair > SH AC Fair > Utilt works.

Um and Fair comes out at frame 5, so I'm not suprised that it works, you already mentioned the startup of the AD. I didn't pay attention to the counter in the training mode =/ next time I'll do some retestings and I'll tell you.
Thanks for the information about the SH FF Bair > Fsmash combo btw^^.

 

[Ishiey]

Lol it's all good Semifer. I really appreciate all the help you're giving me with this, even though I haven't had much time lately to test stuff out >_> Once we get frame data completed things will probably go a bit quicker. SHFF AC fairs though, that's a good point, I didn't FF my fairs when I tested.

There's something I heard about airdodges going into the z axis (as in, three dimensions, like an actual sidestep), if that's the case maybe some of wolf's moves can hit opponents out of airdodge startup and others can't?

 

[Ishiey]

Necropost Update on first post, did some testing on when dtilt trips and combos starting with the strong hit of nair.

This thing still needs a lot of work, if anyone wants to do some testing and get %s or whatever please let me know, because at this rate I'll finish by the end of next summer, with luck >_>

I still need to put in some other updates, but that can wait, I have homework

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I said it many, many times but I'm 90% sure that sweetspotted dash attack comboes into utilt...that means that nair -> dash attack -> utilt could be a combo although I didn't test anything about that yet.

 

[LiL.Will]

I don't think its a true combo but I do it most of the time when I play my friends.

Grab->Pummel (if they're at 20% or higher)->Fthrow->Buffered Boost smash

I don't know if its actually buffered but right after the fthrow I do it at a really quick speed so it throws people off guard mostly after that you can do some cool things like:

Watch their DI and Grab/ Pivot grab them

shine

Fsmash (when they moved a little to far away)

SHFF U-air (Only on the tall chars)

Fair

Blaster

 

[Ishiey]

Tested with a friend. Although it doesn't show up on the combo meter (probably hits during AD startup, idk), he couldn't get out of fair > utilt at 0 and 20, or dashattack > utilt at 20. For dash attack, I had to hit towards the inside, or else the opponent goes too horizontal. Definitely should look more into that.

Next time I can test stuff, it'll be %s at which dtilt trips each character. Next time I have a person to help me test, I'll check fair/utilt/dashattack combos.



EDIT: Lil Will, I am very bad with reading comprehension after I get home from school (loljohns) My bad

 

[LiL.Will]

Lol wait what? I didn't note a grab release in it I meant pummel just for extra damage added on then Fthrow them and do a Buffered boost smash after.

 

[Ishiey]

Lol wait what? I didn't note a grab release in it I meant pummel just for extra damage added on then Fthrow them and do a Buffered boost smash after.

>__________>

Whoops. Haha yeah, I don't know how I mixed that up Sorry Lil Will haha

Well, as far as I know, almost every character can DI fthrow significantly by the time they hit 20% (see JJ's fthrow > buffered dtilt, it only works on heavies at very low %s), so if it does work it's probably more towards lower %s. Seems really unlikely, but I've seen people use it before so I'll look into it next time I get the chance

 

[Seagull Joe]

Usmash>utilt
Short hop shine>aaa (choice's favorite use of shine for the most part)
Dair grounded>uair or fair or bair or nair
ftilt (trip)>dacus
fair>usmash
jab>grab
fair>uair (True combo when buffered perfectly. Kain never misses this combo ever. He is all about the fair)
down grab>aaa
fthrow>dacus if they smash the ground
bair>dsmash
No one ever includes dsmash combos because they don't want to stale the dsmash, but it has a lot of combos. I didn't read the combos included already so I just gave a few obscure ones

 

[JCav]

jab>grab

fthrow>dacus if they smash the ground

really?

O.o

 

[Seagull Joe]

really?

O.o

Of course. I jab to grab all the time. Wolfs don't do this enough. I learned fthrow to dacus by watching Choice and I copied it. Making use of fthrow is always a good thing. The most olbique combos opponents don't expect. The more unpredictable the better.

If you want to be ******** a person could try jab>laser. That isn't a combo, but if a person falls for it then they are idiots.

Another combo that is weird I have done.
B reversal laser a person>dacus. The bayonnet needs to hit causing them to smash the ground.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I have a feeling that usmash -> AAA is a true combo at 0% against some characters. If seagull is right then Usmash -> jab -> grab could be a true combo...

 

[Ishiey]

Seagull, none of those worked in training mode against the CPU, but I'm pretty sure that training mode is on drugs because it didn't say fair > utilt was a combo, but when I asked my friend to try and airdodge out he was unable to. When I have someone around for testing, I'll test all of them out. By smash to the ground, I'm assuming you mean miss a tech, right?

Also, I think that dthrow > buffered dtilt might somehow be a combo, idk. I was trying it on a cpu Ike in training mode and although it didn't come out as a combo, I found that when the dtilt was buffered perfectly he always tripped (he started at 4%). I need to test this with a friend as well, maybe dthrow stun is based off of weight class, or maybe dtilt trips 100% when the opponent is in a landing animation, idk...