Will people finally give current smash competitive attention?

[Renji64]

If the "sharpest in the series" is Fox dittos on Final Destination spamming lasers until someone approaches and then spamming L-cancelled aerials. A fan-made mod is more balanced than it, has better controls, more diverse and usable characters, and has better graphics than than the "sharpest in the series" and yet some of Melee's community refuses to play it. LOL!

That mod is not finished and has it own issues. Brawl is still dead and trash either way <3 Fox Dittos are fast paced and entertaining meanwhile metaknight dittos are not.

 

[Renji64]

By the way, you said two "lols" too many in an argument for me to take you seriously as a person

Edit: Yes I know it's a joke, but the point stands

Who are you? Why would i care if you took me seriously or not?

 

[Lozjam]

That mod is not finished and has it own issues. Brawl is still dead and trash either way <3 Fox Dittos are fast paced and entertaining meanwhile metaknight dittos are not.

/implying Melee is a finished game and doesn't have issues
And as @Amazing Ampharos would testify. Metaknight isn't as well used as Fox, and Brawl actually has more viable characters. Brawl is by no means trash as well. It actually takes strategy unlike Melee.

 

[Renji64]

/implying Melee is a finished game and doesn't have issues
And as @Amazing Ampharos would testify. Metaknight isn't as well used as Fox, and Brawl actually has more viable characters. Brawl is by no means trash as well. It actually takes strategy unlike Melee.

Brawl has more viable characters it is a more recent game congrats? If you think melee doesn't take strategy you are as slow as brawl is. Melee takes strategy and skill. Brawl doesn't require much of either.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

I think this game is going to get as much competitive attention as Brawl, probably more.

Melee and Smash 4 can probably coexist in the competitive scene. Things will be just fine, imo.

 

[Lozjam]

Brawl has more viable characters it is a more recent game congrats? If you think melee doesn't take strategy you are as slow as brawl is. Melee takes stragey and skill. Brawl doesn't require much of either.

"Melee takes stragey and skill". You heard it here folks. I completely agree that Brawl doesn't require stragey. I am not even sure what stragey is. And you are downright lying on Skill. I could kick your ass in Brawl with Ganondorf. And I will be able to do so in Smash 4 as well. Then you can take your "Stragey and Skill" elsewhere instead of making flame baits which, if I may add, is against the Smashboards global rules.

 

[Renji64]

"Melee takes stragey and skill". You heard it here folks. I completely agree that Brawl doesn't require stragey. I am not even sure what stragey is. And you are downright lying on Skill. I could kick your *** in Brawl with Ganondorf. And I will be able to do so in Smash 4 as well. Then you can take your "Stragey and Skill" elsewhere instead of making flame baits which, if I may add, is against the Smashboards global rules.

lol you need to stop drinking so much of that tripping kool aid. I'm not making any baits or flaming. I meant strategy my bad but still brawl is dead it sucks get over it.

 

[DownWitDaWaveDash]

The game will have a competitive scene, and it will last longer than brawls, AND it wont be nearly as bad as brawls.

I've never seen 2 Fox's sit on the other side of FD and shoot lasers... wut? Melee is about going in and attacking.

But I have seen 2 Meta knights Up-air nothing for 3 minutes at a time. They attack the air hard core.

So far the real problem with the 3DS competitive scene is brawl players, still playing brawl style. I was watching CT stream, and someone got the lead, and suddenly, no more approaching, lol he stood still and didn't move for like 25 seconds. Smart? Yes. Boring to watch ? Yes

Its about time you guys stopped saying "Brawl takes strategy". Like wut? Melee doesn't take strategy? 64 doesn't take strategy? What else did it really have going for it?

 

[Lozjam]

lol you need to stop drinking so much of that tripping kool aid. I'm not making any baits or flaming. I meant strategy my bad but still brawl is dead it sucks get over it.

Oh yes, we all can take you seriously with your excellent and precise grammar. I am totally the one high off of kool-aid.
/Sarcasm
And Brawl does not suck, it is merely different. Nothing is wrong with different. It has an extremely deep meta-game once you stop wishing for it to be Melee. Melee has deep metagame as well, but in different ways. Yes, Brawl's Meta is gone. Does it mean it's a bad game? No. 64's metagame is extremely small too. Is Smash 64 a bad game? No. Smash 4 is still completely different then 64, Melee, and Brawl, so I suggest you wait until the meta develops before shrieking. "Oh, it's not Melee, it's too defensive, the characters never die, its complete ****".

 

[Renji64]

Oh yes, we all can take you seriously with your excellent and precise grammar. I am totally the one high off of kool-aid.
/Sarcasm
And Brawl does not suck, it is merely different. Nothing is wrong with different. It has an extremely deep meta-game once you stop wishing for it to be Melee. Melee has deep metagame as well, but in different ways. Yes, Brawl's Meta is gone. Does it mean it's a bad game? No. 64's metagame is extremely small too. Is Smash 64 a bad game? No. Smash 4 is still completely different then 64, Melee, and Brawl, so I suggest you wait until the meta develops before shrieking. "Oh, it's not Melee, it's too defensive, the characters never die, its complete ****".

<3 Don't worry you can forget the mistake that is brawl. Smash 4 comes out this friday.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

the mistake that is brawl.

Moar P4R
You, but with coding ability

I'm not sure how a thread about a game resulted in a flame war regarding two different games (Oh, who am I kidding?), but it'd be cool if the thread wasn't completely derailed by bandwagon Brawl hate.

 

[DownWitDaWaveDash]

That article is about as trolling as trolling gets.

Go post that on the tourneyfags wiki.

 

[PikaSamus]

Moar P4R
You, but with coding ability

I'm not sure how a thread about a game resulted in a flame war regarding two different games (Oh, who am I kidding?), but it'd be cool if the thread wasn't completely derailed by bandwagon Brawl hate.

That website is the best. It said Microsoft renamed the Xbox One to the Titanfall Player.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

That website is the best. It said Microsoft renamed the Xbox One to the Titanfall Player.

Really? I would have thought it would be the Killer Instinct Station or the Halo One

 

[Senario]

If the "sharpest in the series" is Fox dittos on Final Destination spamming lasers until someone approaches and then spamming L-cancelled aerials. A fan-made mod is more balanced than it, has better controls, more diverse and usable characters, and has better graphics than than the "sharpest in the series" and yet some of Melee's community refuses to play it. LOL!

Except nobody goes fox on FD. That is an absolute terrible idea. There are reasons for using a SHFFL'ed air move that seemingly misses. It is to cover options. If somebody approaches they simply run into your air move. But it also works as a kind of spacing. Think street fighter where somebody throws out a kick and the very edge of the move either barely misses or barely hits. Same concept.

I wouldn't say PM is more balanced, more like everybody has OP things which isn't exactly "more balanced". Everybody having broken stuff in a PVP game never works out as well as it does in a PVE game. Mewtwo and Pit for example in PM are stupidly strong, more than any character should ever be. Recoveries are fairly strong which is a good criticism of the game, granted they aren't as crazy as Smash 4 recoveries lol.

Honestly, I don't see why you seemingly hate on melee. Without Melee you wouldn't have PM. I always thought the Melee community and PM community should get along since their games are similar. You don't have to force people to play your game or declare the other one "crap", everybody is on the same side here. I don't play PM as often as I do for melee but I do play it occasionally. (In part I do not play it as much as my melee main is absolutely terrible in PM, Sheik is really really bad).

But hey, if you want to divide a subset of the community that should be united that is fine.

 

[McX]

All Project M did was satisfy the melee players. They are probably going to do the same thing to sm4sh.

The really big difference between brawl and melee is the airdodge physics. Characters were either broken or extremely unbalanced in both iterations of the game, whether it be fox/falco dittos everywhere or tornado spamming meat knights. There is a new metagame now, and people will have to adapt whether they like it or not. If they're too stubborn for the new versions of the game, there's always going to be a competitive scene in the older games.

The only thing that's really stopping the sm4sh community in any way is the people who complain about having no second melee. Sm4sh's physics are actually more closely related to smash 64's physics, with some inspiration from brawl. Brawl had a lot of depth - I'm not trying to say melee did not have any. There is plenty of strategy involved when using say, a low tier character against one of the highest tiered characters in the game, especially in brawl. We've seen people disprove tier lists and ascend surprisingly far up the ranks with lower tiered characters. So long as tournament brackets aren't simply locked in the same place, there is also a lot of depth, as people continue to discover new things all the time.

Same as sm4sh. People are already discovering new things. People will likely discover even more things - maybe we'll discover something huge that will completely change the metagame. I can't wait.

 

[Senario]

All Project M did was satisfy the melee players. They are probably going to do the same thing to sm4sh.

The really big difference between brawl and melee is the airdodge physics. Characters were either broken or extremely unbalanced in both iterations of the game, whether it be fox/falco dittos everywhere or tornado spamming meat knights. There is a new metagame now, and people will have to adapt whether they like it or not. If they're too stubborn for the new versions of the game, there's always going to be a competitive scene in the older games.

The only thing that's really stopping the sm4sh community in any way is the people who complain about having no second melee. Sm4sh's physics are actually more closely related to smash 64's physics, with some inspiration from brawl. Brawl had a lot of depth - I'm not trying to say melee did not have any. There is plenty of strategy involved when using say, a low tier character against one of the highest tiered characters in the game, especially in brawl. We've seen people disprove tier lists and ascend surprisingly far up the ranks with lower tiered characters. So long as tournament brackets aren't simply locked in the same place, there is also a lot of depth, as people continue to discover new things all the time.

Same as sm4sh. People are already discovering new things. People will likely discover even more things - maybe we'll discover something huge that will completely change the metagame. I can't wait.

Same thing happens in melee though. You have Ganondorf Mains, Luigi, Yoshi, Pikachu, Dr Mario, ect ect. And many characters started off low tier but went up due to these players as they showed that the character has good matchups.

I wouldn't say that the biggest difference is airdodge physics. Mostly hitstun and overall mobility (dashing) mechanics. Also, Fox may be a little broken but both fox and falco had a very severe downside, they are combo food. You can juggle them insanely easily+They fell fast so any small poke or gimp they suffer off stage usually sends them far enough so they can't reach the ledge. They had a downside and that is the important thing. A strong character will always be more popular than a character who is good but not as strong, but whether or not something is completely broken is up to debate.

The only things that are stopping smash 4 is the lack of options and the community who are so quick to dismiss melee players simply because of petty reasons. Saying they are "too stubborn to move on" or they will have to play the new game "whether they like it or now" is incredibly dismissive. Competitive players play because they have fun with the game. Otherwise they wouldn't be playing it. If somebody likes Melee and PM because of their gameplay would you expect them to play Smash 4 if they simply don't have all that much fun with it?

I really dislike the overhype about smash 4 sometimes. It is cool to be excited about your game, but don't try to start a competitive community that actively hates on the established communities of older games. Some melee players made that mistake back in 2008 and it wasn't good for anybody. Luckily I avoided that and just did my own thing, played brawl for a bit competitively and got bored then learned melee.

 

[McX]

Nah. The airdodge definitely makes a big difference. You can already see it in sm4sh.
I think I'll just do my thing with sm4sh too, like you said. I just wanna enjoy the game.

 

[PCHU]

After actually playing Smash 4 for myself (for 4 minutes; I don't actually own a 3DS), it seems like it's gonna be a lot of fun, even with that awful control stick.
I think that once the WiiU version comes out and more people can play comfortably, we'll start seeing some better punishes and combos from people, since they seem a bit afraid to gimp right now and combos are shaky (with these controls, I couldn't really play well, either).

Still, I think it's kind of silly to put two barriers on chaingrabbing -- both grab invulnerability for a full second AND throws that launch too far to even follow up with a grab (or sometimes anything).
I also think it's strange that Fox and Falco's laser game took such a huge hit considering there are other characters with far better projectiles; a little less recovery would be nice.
They also took away Wario's bike tires, but this ain't a thread about what ticks me off -- I still think the game has potential, but a lot of the choices they made were questionable.
Regardless, it's fun, it fixed a bunch of things that made Brawl unappealing, and it's gonna look nice on top of that; a true sequel in my book.



I really miss those tires now.

 

[MiserableLie]

I think both Smash 4 and Melee will have competitive scenes.

Brawl however will die

 

[Hydde]

Brawl should die. it already bleeded too many pockets being a sub-par game.

Smash4, even when is the son of Brawl, looks much more interesting tho..

 

[Cactusblah]

Melee will shrivel up and die after Smash 4 Wii U is out. There will be a few who cling to it, but they will be left in the dust.

 

[Sandfox]

Smash 4 lends itself better to modern tournaments and the Smash community will have an influx of new players, so it should bring a lot of attention.

 

[D-idara]

Brawl should die. it already bleeded too many pockets being a sub-par game.

Smash4, even when is the son of Brawl, looks much more interesting tho..

Melee has gotten too much attention being a subpar, buggy game. See? I can do it too.

Smash4 will get attention as long as the people that brought Brawl down shut their mouths and let it do its own thing.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Not if the most vocal members of the community keep tear the scene apart like in 2008.

 

[Bladeviper]

it will have its scene, but it won't kill off any of the others except brawl for the most part. To me smash is special when compared to other fighting games in that when a new one comes out it most likely won't kill off the other games.

just look at all the anime fighting games like pa4 and bb who as soon as the next one comes out the last one dies almost instantly, the new bb will most likely die out when p4au comes out, which will then die out when guilty gear comes out.

We are in a position where all the games can be played competitively without any of the games killing another off since each game brings something different to the table and it gives people more options to play the game they feel the most comfortable with.

 

[GeNo-BreaKer]

Melee will shrivel up and die after Smash 4 Wii U is out. There will be a few who cling to it, but they will be left in the dust.

lol

Smash 4 is a defensive game. It's leagues ahead of Brawl, but the audience has spoken. Offensive gameplay from Melee is drastically more popular than defensive gameplay.

 

[Bladeviper]

lol

Smash 4 is a defensive game. It's leagues ahead of Brawl, but the audience has spoken. Offensive gameplay from Melee is drastically more popular than defensive gameplay.

id like to see what audience you are talking about since from what ive seen the people posting in the tournament threads here seem to like watching the game for the most part

 

[GeNo-BreaKer]

id like to see what audience you are talking about since from what ive seen the people posting in the tournament threads here seem to like watching the game for the most part

The audience that left the tripping fest to die in favor of Melee and Project M. Yeah, people like watching Smash 4 right now, because it's a new game and the meta is developing. But it's going to turn into a defensive game, sooner or later, due to the awful air dodge from Brawl, shield stun being stupidly low, shieldgrab being as great as ever, and the unpunishable roll and sidestep. It's probably not gonna be as boring as Brawl, but Melee (Or Project M) will top it in the end.

 

[ToadsterOven]

The audience that left the tripping fest to die in favor of Melee and Project M. Yeah, people like watching Smash 4 right now, because it's a new game and the meta is developing. But it's going to turn into a defensive game, sooner or later, due to the awful air dodge from Brawl, shield stun being stupidly low, shieldgrab being as great as ever, and the unpunishable roll and sidestep. It's probably not gonna be as boring as Brawl, but Melee (Or Project M) will top it in the end.

You're pretty ignorant if you think the game will be another Brawl that will quickly fall out of favor and be replaced by Melee/Project M this early into the game's competitive lifespan. The Brawl Airdodge is now punishable if you dodge too close to the ground, shield stun being low leads to offensive options, grabbing out of shield has always been a thing as far back as melee, deal with it! Lastly, rolling in this game looks to be the new wavedashing.

 

[The Soap]

This has already been said, but to all the people hating on Melee- just stop. You're being no better than the Melee players you make fun of.

As for Smash 4, people are definitely giving it a shot, as shown by the numerous streams and tournaments that have already taken place since its launch. It'll most likely get all the attention it deserves (how much that is, I don't know).

 

[Eight Melodies]

The Smash community is so wonderful.

 

[AzureFlame4]

I've yet to see someone post any good reasons as to why both Smash 4 and Melee can't thrive together. If you prefer Melee, go play Melee. If you end up preferring Smash 4 play that. Arguing over which is better serves no purpose because in the end you aren't convincing anybody and just look like an idiot.

As for the actual topic of the thread, I think the competitive scene will be bigger than ever before thanks to Nintendo supporting it and allowing it to be more in the open.

 

[Joe73191]

These are 2 very well written pieces on Smash 4 and its relationship with Melee.
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2gmbb2/smash_4_and_melee_the_reality_we_all_have_to_face/
and
http://www.meleeitonme.com/on-the-future-and-the-repeat-of-history/

 

[PCHU]

The audience that left the tripping fest to die in favor of Melee and Project M. Yeah, people like watching Smash 4 right now, because it's a new game and the meta is developing. But it's going to turn into a defensive game, sooner or later, due to the awful air dodge from Brawl, shield stun being stupidly low, shieldgrab being as great as ever, and the unpunishable roll and sidestep. It's probably not gonna be as boring as Brawl, but Melee (Or Project M) will top it in the end.

As far as unpunishable, I don't know; I'd chalk that up to the 3DS controls being downright awful and people not wanting to go for hard reads/gimps/general punishes.
But rolls definitely are better in this iteration.

Offensive capabilities have actually been heightened due to lower landing lag, and shield pressure might become a real thing again (not to mention multihit moves are now viable with the near absence of SDI).
There are still a few true combos and the overall speed has been increased (and the game almost looks decently balanced), but in terms of the technical ceiling and overall character potential, Melee and Project M are still at the top, and there's nothing wrong with that.

My only issue with Project M is the balance; it's wonderful to be playing a decent character, but I feel like a slight nerf overall would actually help the game a lot.
It just feels way too easy to combo compared to Melee and some characters get away with stuff far too easily (Kirby's dash attack comes to mind with its hitboxes finally vanishing a few frames before the entire move ends), and it just gets boring to me after a while.
Melee isn't well-balanced, but at least comboing felt like I was actually putting in work rather than having everything pop my opponent into the air just enough to convert into pretty much whatever.

Smash 4 is going to be a good game in its own respects, especially once people get controllers they're truly comfortable with.
It may not be the best (I can't forgive them for taking Wario's tires and fsmash), but it's certainly a fresh look on the series as a whole and it's more than worth it to give it a real try.

By the way, bait the airdodge.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

I'm seriously hoping that Nintendo tries to get more involved with eSports because the first game to take off for the company will be this game right here.

 

[Kuraudo]

I can't say I'm surprised. I knew that this was going to happen. I'm through being pissed off about it though.

The whole Melee vs. Brawl thing. And now even Melee vs. Smash 4. I'm just tired.

 

[Reila]

I think Melee will still be the main competitive Smash game in big tournaments and that is fine. Let people play what they want.

I'm seriously hoping that Nintendo tries to get more involved with eSports because the first game to take off for the company will be this game right here.

lol "esports'.

As far as unpunishable, I don't know; I'd chalk that up to the 3DS controls being downright awful and people not wanting to go for hard reads/gimps/general punishes..

There is nothing awful about the 3DS controls. Git gud.

 

[PCHU]

I think Melee will still be the main competitive Smash game in big tournaments and that is fine. Let people play what they want.

lol "esports'.

There is nothing awful about the 3DS controls. Git gud.

I guess I was being insensitive.
My complaint about the 3DS's control stick is that it just kinda slides rather than rolls which leads to inputs being a bit awkward.
I've used Xbox controllers, GC controllers, Playstation controllers, I've played Gameboy/Color/Advance/SP, DS, and even managed to get around the N64's controller, but the 3DS is a different beast, partially because my first time playing Smash 4 was my first time actually playing a 3DS.
It's not awful, but it didn't necessarily feel like I thought it would, and I respect those who put effort into learning that.
I'm holding out for the Wii U version, but I'll play on 3DS if it's there.

 

[MiserableLie]

Melee was a perfect accident that's never going to be repeated. But Brawl was a great game and Smash 4 will be a great game.