Will Modded GameCube Controllers Be Tournament Legal? (Shoulder Buttons Only)

[JusDBerube]

Sadly I haven't played Super Smash Bros. Brawl yet. I have done a lot of reading about the game and I often see some people complaining about shielding in Brawl while using a GameCube controller. Apparently you have to press the shoulder buttons all the way down when using a GameCube controller. If I am wrong about this please lock the thread.

I also have run across some people mentioning that they were going to modify their GameCube controllers so they have a quicker shield response time. Meaning that they would basically take out the analog part of the Shoulder Buttons.

I'm just wondering what everyone thinks about this. Will it be tournament legal to use a GameCube controller that has been modified in this one way? I know it's not cool to have it modified for other things like a short hop button. I'm just saying just for shielding since all the other controller options don't make you depress an analog button to it's max just to get your shield up.

ANOTHER THOUGHT: I also thought of another method. What if one is to create an external device that would hold the shoulder buttons down most of the way. Will that also be considered legal?

 

[Scicky]

It seems like an unfair advantage to me, and so what, I press
them all the way down anyway, it's not hard...

 

[WoodyDave]

I'm not sure how modifying your controller works, but if they were to allow it, wouldnt it be easier to sneak in other modifications also?

 

[ArgentStew]

As far as I know, it was illegal in Melee... It should be illegal in Brawl... Seriously, it's part of the transition after all... :/

Edit: I'm talking about modding controllers...

 

[Chrnocide]

Brawl ( because of all the different controller modes ) has an option specifically so that you can make any button you want, to any assigned skill/task you want.. which is what I THINK people are talking about when they said they're going to " mod " their controller. It can be done simply by going to the options screen... so not sure if it would be considered illegal since every player can do it.

 

[DragonBlade]

I had this problem. I light shield in Melee at least 50% of the time, and not being able to light shield anymore throws the timing off the shields, but its not a huge problem. I think it should be fairly easy to adjust too after a while.

After realizing how differently Brawl plays, I'm considering getting a classic controller now. There really isn't a huge advantage that the GC controller gives you anymore, now that you can't light shield or dash dance. I'll have my impressions out in a few days, if I can get one.

 

[Gerbil]

@Chronocide - No. We seriously mean modding the physical controller itself to reduce the amount of pressure needed to pull out our shields.

and LOL at the 1 post noob. If you don't know the benefit behind analog shielding or just the regular shield coming out without being fully pressed, then you shoul do just a tad bit more game playing and realize why the eaxct reason is that we want to mod the controllers. (I'm not being mean, I'm being serious. I am a cool guy)

@Argent - True, however if it was a community majority vote, then it could be possible.

@Woody - Yes. Other mods could be easily snuck in. However, they are also gonna be just as noticeable. We (the community) would have to be careful in this decision.

 

[JohnnyLeven]

The comment I saw specifically mentioned removing the springs from the shoulder buttons, so they weren't referring to modding their controller button configuration.

 

[Phelix08]

I'm fairly confident that only cosmetic mods were allowed in most tournaments for melee, and thus I doubt something like that would be legal. But you can always try, right?

 

[Zenjamin]

It was illegal in melee because it made powersheilding easy.

something that should be hard.

but just sheilding basic attacks and Shield canceling are easy things made hard.


also, to use the "Noob" arguement, I dont thint this was the creators intention... they made sheilding a simple one compression type of thing because thats how all of the other controlers work...

 

[RedMage8BT]

Wow, I'm gonna have to get used to pressing them down all the way all the time. I usually just press it down all the way for Techs and Shield-Grabs.

 

[NintendoWarrior]

I don't think it should be legal. People map the shield button to a different button or use different controllers. There are 4 options.

 

[Japanese Monk]

While I think its a good idea I dont know it modded controllers would be a good idea for tourneys. I think they shouldnt be allowed in tourneys.

Tourneys are supposed to be the best of the best. This is not melee, so any tourney players should be able to play the game without physically altering the controller.

Not to mention to the casuals it will "seem" like cheating, and then we'll have another wavedash=glitch like situation.

For home play though, Im all for it.

 

[MajinSweet]

Why can't you just change shield to Z?

 

[3GOD]

I see no problem at all with removing the spring from the L/R trigger since you CAN NOT shield unless you depress the trigger ALL the way down. Also, it's about the easiest mod ever, so it's not an "Unfair advantage" for anyone (that is - everyone could do the mod easily).

The issue with melee was powershielding, and to a lesser extent wavedashing. Neither of these should be an issue in Brawl since analog shielding is out as well as wavedashing.

 

[sagemoon]

Using this mod or any kind of mod at that, would give you an advantage over those who didnt use the mod. Therefor it should be banned. On top of that, not everyone can/is willing to mod their controller so this takes the skill outside of the game (lol i just called modding a skill)

Its cheating. If you want an instant shield switch it to the z button and use r for grabbing >_>

Or you can just use a wii controller XD

Edit at post above: Modding maybe an easy thing to do, but not everyone is willing to do it. Its fine to use it for casual play or online play. But in tournament play modding is banned and should be kept banned.

 

[KangKyu]

I would say it is unfair, but frankly I find it no trouble at all to pust a button all the way down quickly . oo

 

[-=Untamed-Beast=-]

I think it goes along the line of you being able to choose your control setup. Also, to people who say it gives the GC controller and unfair advantage, it doesn't. It actually levels it out, because the other controllers have smaller, non-spring shoulder buttons.

Also, were modded GC controllers illegal in Melee tournaments because everyone has to play with the same control scheme or else it would give unfair advantages? How will this affect Brawl? I'm using the classic controller (w/ the nintendo grip attached). Shouldn't we be able to use any control scheme? If one controller and/or setup is considered better than another, you could just use it. If you preferred something else, you might be weakening your skill but that's all up to you.
What do you guys think?

 

[KokiriKory]

Everyone has a point with mapping the shield to another button. That's not what everyone will want to hear, but it's better than allowing people to play with custom controllers.

This is a new game, and pressing the R and L buttons down all the way is just another thing we'll have to get used to, as well as many other new changes to the game.

 

[Poel]

It should be banned. You can re-bind what your different buttons do, and you're the one choosing to play with the GC controller.

Controller mods need to just be avoided in general. Let skill and button configuration creativity be the keys in controller set ups, not various mods for people not willing to learn a new control habit.

 

[-=Untamed-Beast=-]

If you want an instant shield switch it to the z button and use r for grabbing

As far as I'm concerned that covers it.

 

[zergman]

I think a lot of tournaments are gonna start being held online so no one will know if you are moding your remote anyway.

 

[sagemoon]

I think a lot of tournaments are gonna start being held online so no one will know if you are moding your remote anyway.

It would be very hard to host a tournament online w/ brawls wii friend thingy. Tournaments are complicated enough as is to run.

 

[-=Untamed-Beast=-]

It would be very hard to host a tournament online w/ melees wii friend thingy. Tournaments are complicated enough as is to run.

...Melee's?

 

[Paradigm]

From the sound of this discussion, most of you proposing other options have either not been to a large Melee tournament or are not familiar with the amount of time it would take to sync up any controller scheme other than the NGC controller, as well as how long it would take to customize your controls on every different setup you'll use at one.

To be frank other non-default-NGC setups don't seem to be too practical for a large (offline) Brawl tournament. It'd take far too long. The choice really is between allowing modded NGC controllers or not; the other proposals don't seem practical.

 

[Break]

Honestly, I don't see why people are so against it, it takes about 5 minutes to do and requires basically no tech experience. Most sports have rules regarding what parts of equipment can be changed/modded, like bowling balls for example. I don't see why we can't just have rules regarding what can and can't be changed on a controller.

 

[WoodyDave]

Little bit of an off topic, but would the classic controller be easier to use over the gamecube controller then?

 

[FiveLeafClover]

Honestly, I don't see why people are so against it, it takes about 5 minutes to do and requires basically no tech experience. Most sports have rules regarding what parts of equipment can be changed/modded, like bowling balls for example. I don't see why we can't just have rules regarding what can and can't be changed on a controller.

Why bother going to all that trouble of modding your controller when you can simply map your shield to a different button (Z, X/Y maybe)?

 

[Surgo]

Weren't third party controllers allowed in tournaments anyway provided you didn't use turbo? If so, there's some fairly obvious rules lawyering around the modded controller issue:

* Have a website where you sell your "third-party" controllers (which are really just mods).
* Bring one of them to the tournament.

Tada! You're not a modded controller, you're "third party"!

 

[usea]

I can't think of any legitimate reason why the shoulder button mod should be disallowed in brawl.

I mean, you can just buy a third party controller that has L/R buttons that are easier to press, or use a classic controller, or use an arcade stick. Or remap the button. Why do you care if your opponent chooses method X instead of method Y to make their shield button digital? There is no reason why it should be banned.

 

[Break]

Why bother going to all that trouble of modding your controller when you can simply map your shield to a different button (Z, X/Y maybe)?

Well, it's really more of a quick alteration than a mod. The hardest part is taking off the controller's cover. The only problem I see with remapping is with tournaments, wouldn't you have to adjust your controls before every match? I just seems like more of a hassle than a quick five minute fix. However, arguing about this now is kind of silly - all we can do is wait and see.

 

[deathborn00]

well you can just map the shield button to another button on the controller, so modding the control isn't really necessary for quick shielding

edit: didn't notice someone said that already, sorry

 

[-=Untamed-Beast=-]

From the sound of this discussion, most of you proposing other options have either not been to a large Melee tournament or are not familiar with the amount of time it would take to sync up any controller scheme other than the NGC controller, as well as how long it would take to customize your controls on every different setup you'll use at one.

To be frank other non-default-NGC setups don't seem to be too practical for a large (offline) Brawl tournament. It'd take far too long. The choice really is between allowing modded NGC controllers or not; the other proposals don't seem practical.

What does Melee tourney experience have to do with controller sync up? Especially when GC don't sync. Also I can't see it taking more than a few seconds to sync your controller with the Wii with your personalized controls. All controller except the GC controller can syn, and those are the only ones that need to.
If you have to keep setting up gc control methods at a tourney everytime you switch wii's, that would only take a few seconds to do too.

All in all it would only take 2 minutes max for 4 players to get ready for a match on a different Wii.

 

[JusDBerube]

well you can just map the shield button to another button on the controller, so modding the control isn't really necessary for quick shielding

edit: didn't notice someone said that already, sorry

The question is this. If you try to do anything with L or R does it have to be pushed down all the way? I mean, do you have to push it all the way down to air dodge? What if you make it your attack button? It still makes it slower/harder to press.

I'm just trying to show everyone another way to look at the remapping issue.

 

[usea]

Changing controls is standard fare for console fighting game tournaments. It creates very little extra setup time (like, always under 10 seconds).

 

[deathborn00]

The question is this. If you try to do anything with L or R does it have to be pushed down all the way? I mean, do you have to push it all the way down to air dodge? What if you make it your attack button? It still makes it slower/harder to press.

I'm just trying to show everyone another way to look at the remapping issue.

ohh ok, well then i think modded controls should not be modded, because the modded control will have an advantage in terms of shielding. Competitive play is supposed to be as fair as possible to both players, so it can be a show of pure skill. If modded controls are tourney legal, then i wouldn't see why items and FS's can't be

 

[JusDBerube]

Deathborn00. I think that there is a chance that by not having the controller modded that it might give the other controllers an advantage in terms of shielding. That is part of the reason I brought this topic up.

I think it's safe to assume that most people will prefer everything about the GameCube controller minus how the shoulder buttons require you to press it all the way down. That is why I think there should be serious consideration about this.

 

[Miller]

People who use the classic controller will have the advantage if you put it that way. Its just making the cube controller represent the classic controller in terms of L&R buttons.

TBH I already modded mine.

 

[WoodyDave]

People who use the classic controller will have the advantage if you put it that way. Its just making the cube controller represent the classic controller in terms of L&R buttons.

TBH I already modded mine.

I dont know about that. IMO, the gamecube controller fits better in the hand and the button arrangement seems better. I'd say even with the L/R button problem, gamecube might still have the advantage.

Not my call, but if its only fixing the L/R button, i'd consider allowing that.

 

[Robble]

People who use the classic controller will have the advantage if you put it that way.

I agree with the above. For those people who want to avoid the frames of extra lag that they'll experience when trying to block they will have only one choice: pay the extra money to buy a classic controller. How is that fair? Sure, it's not much, but still...

I mean, if ALL they do is remove the springs from the L/R buttons then how is that unfair considering the fact that the game has no "analog button pressing" detection on any of the buttons (obviously I'm not including the analog stick)? The argument that, "well, if they're modding that they could make other mods," makes no sense since if it's so easy to sneak in mods to controllers then wouldn't people have been doing it all the time?

Unless I'm missing something here people are saying that the controllers should be banned purely because modded controllers were banned in Melee, when there was no legitimate reason to mod one then but there is one for Brawl.