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Halberd is hardly a transforming stage. It goes from being a floating platform with long platform to a slightly larger walled platform with the exact same platform.Well you cant ban cs, delfino, and halberg. So it's even. lol
double post (Sorry moderator)
It can kill you if you stay behind when the platform takes off though.
Yeah but that's such a minor part of the stage. If you pick halberd its either for the platform layout or the low ceiling.
We never said that. But we do prefer fine stages over not fine stages, and your reason for banning those 2 is water, which is non-intrusive and elfino has more of, and walkoffs, which are no longer a problem due to time limit and which Delfino has more of. Skyloft may have caves of life, but they are temporary. Wuhu may have more walkoffs, but they are temporary and the cooldowns between them and many, and long too. None of them are uncompetetive anyways, and the 2 of them were neutral until Apex happened and ruined Smash 4 in multiple ways.
To reply to this specifically and ignore the rest of what has been a not very good argument over stage policy...
I'm sorry kalos, norfair, and gamer? I didn't know running to a pod was competitve. This conversation is over xD We're thinking competitive here.
Legal issues. They probably have licences to use the songs in their games, but playing them over a stream that makes money is a different story. They can just turn the music off lol
Evo got a contract with Nintendo for what stages they could use and and only asked about the stages used at APEX. They never asked for Wuhu or Skyloft so they didn't get permission for them.
Thank god. Go away.
I cut out the rest of your post because I could go into paragraphs, even a few Word pages worth of responses to you and you thinking Skyloft is necessarily a nightmare, and your horrible examples on transformers. But this isn't worth the time. I look at your last post and see that nothing we do is gonna change anything you think. Also, you're entitled to my opinion, but not to insulting me. I'm glad this conversation is over.
(not really) 4ever M8
Really, this kind of thing was only a problem with Meta Knight in Brawl. Clearly we don't face that issue in Smash 4 anymore.
At least Smogon takes great care with their bans. Those guys take their rules and bans very seriously, it's a pleasure to read their analyzes.
I can't say I agree -- at least not this generation. Mega Lucario? Mega Mawile? Aegislash? Greninja? Chain Baton Pas? Swagger??
They were all banned for a good reason. Mega Lucario was broken as ****, Baton Pass was extremely broken and Aegislash made every other Steel type obsolete. Swagger was also a very powerful move that relied heavily on luck, which Smogon tries to avoid.
I disagree with each of those bans, but I see their reasoning and despite thinking it's not that big an issue, I know they needed to happen. Mainly because the community refused to adapt to them, and if they didn't ban it, this thing would have ruined them. AKA their own stubbornness forced it to happen.
Apparently there's 3rd party music, or something.
It's really stupid.
Music has a moderate (5-10%) chance of playing at minimum slider, so It's bound to happen at least once. Nintendo will likely not get sued, but Nintendo don't want to take those risks for the sake of a stage.
Streaming the music and putting it in a game are two different things even if it's a stream of the game that has that music in it, and depending on the contract Nintendo had with the music owner they may not be able to have music streamed at events they are sponsoring, although I think EVO could have gotten some more stages if they didn't just copy paste the APEX list when asking Nintendo for legal stages.
I'm confused. So is your definition of competitive is 'not running to a pod'? Until you provide a clear line of logic that implies that implies running to a pod is inherently non-competitive, no one can even try to contradict your point. And that's a bad thing.
Actually, I think I understand your misunderstanding, and I think it's a lot on the part of others for not explaining right, but then again I'm not really one to say one way or the other. I understand it like this: there's a transformation of Delfino that has a wall. I've seen this wall used in creative ways, which is a good thing. It spices up competitive and rewards experimentation and creativity. However, sometimes the wall leads to a stalemate. This is why stages like this are normally banned, because they sometimes lead to a stalemate. However, Delfino inevitably moves away, s there is no problem.
These 2 situations aren't equivalent. You never tried to prove they are equivalent. It's nothing but rhetoric, I'm afraid. People won't take you seriously not because they disagree with you, but because your attempts to refute them aren't grounded enough to argue against their points.
That's an interesting point. Why can't they? I imagine they don't want the music off for the stages that do have music they can use, and it would take too much time to switch. That's all I can think of.
I'm not very sympathetic to their argument, to be frank. If your character does well on, say, Wuhu Island, what does it matter if you dislike it personally? It's to your advantage to pick it and banning it is just shooting yourself in the foot. (To pick a random stage as an example, you get the point.)
Each stage is very different, it's unlikely that they'll hate all of them. And if that happens, and the stage gets chosen, choose a different character. If you don't want a stage because it's "tooo many", I don't know what to tell them. The argument is just a mess to argue, yet one of the most logically useless arguments there.
No respectable tournaments have removed KJ64 from the stage list, it's a good stage.
Good to hear!
These respectable tournaments don't seem to be on the most popular stream channels, then.
It's not about just not liking it, but thinking it's going to screw them over because it's a bad stage in general.
The arguments for why the 13 stages I'm sure we all know about are not, in fact, bad stages are very old hat so I won't bother reiterating them, especially since it seems like you agree already anyway.
Great. Ban Smashville and Town and City, then, because you can do the same thing on both of them by grabbing someone on the platform. Oh, and that doesn't go away on Smashville. Ever. You do realize that "the opponent is not that dumb and therefore didn't fall for it" pretty much says it all, right? Wait 40 seconds and it's over. If the walkoff is temporary, unless there's something similarly dumb on the rest of the transformations, then you can wait it out. It's not broken. It's not degenerate. It's only abusable if your opponent decides to take a huge risk - if they play poorly.
Pilotwings is universally banned, but not for any of the reasons you just listed. You almost hit on it when you said the red plane was campy, but no. The reason it's banned is because camping underneath a platform with a wall to your back is an incredibly powerful fortified position, and you can camp the engine on the yellow planes for a more or less hard circle. It has nothing to do with the stage tilting.
My reasons are still good nonetheless. People who organize tournaments don't think that in-depth and that is what frustrates me. But with Smashville and Town and City you have other ways of approaching the opponent while in Castle Siege 2 you have **** that blocks your projectiles as opposed to being able to go under and attack instead of being forced to make an aerial attack just to have it shielded then grabbed then cheap instant kill. Walk offs ruin a game as they remove off-stage gameplay and allow for easy and early kills. They shouldn't be allowed what so ever. It takes one hit near the edge as opposed to in a stage like battlefield you have to make multiple attacks and edgeguard while in Delfino Plaza you can make one cheap attack without much effort and win. That's what is frustrating. Working to earn kills should not be as simple as blocking to grabbing or require a simple cheap tactic.
