Wii U Patch 1.0.8 (Lucas Patch) Data Thread Compilation

[WeirdJoe27]

There is never enough damage for Ganon

Ha! Very true, very true.

 

[SeanS]

Hi, G&W boards reporting in.

No perceptible changes to our character between patches, except that post-patch G&W has increased knockback on dtilt, now killing at 146% on 3DS FD Mario in standard position (previous kill percentage was 198%).

I hate Sakurai's balance philosophy of nerfing / buffing things that no one wanted buffs for and ignoring the fundamental issues ailing certain characters. This is the last thing I asked for as a G&W player.

 

[Skydra]

Needle fidgeting and SH fair combos are still in for Sheik, and all throw combos seem to still work (tested F throw to bfish, fair, Uair and D throw to fair, Uair. Damage values need testing with previous version.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Guys, if you want to see some changes, look at Lucina and Marth's Up B. :3

 

[divade]

I feel that saying "this one thing hasn't been changed for a character" isn't worth posting in here, only if something did change, or If they see no changes (like SeanS). Saying what hasn't changed could take forever.

 

[CycIone]

Robin cannot count

Robin cannot counter?

Sorry, I meant Roy.

 

[Smash Bro]

Sorry, I meant Roy.

What do you mean, "Roy can't counter?" You mean it's not as good as Melee? Because he does, indeed, still have his counter...

Never mind, I understand the context now. Also can confirm that Lucina's Up-B got quite the range buff. I don't play Marth so I can't tell for him.

 

[tarextherex]

git gud

Yoshi has some weakness that really hurts him. His grab game is high risk/low reward, doesn't have much true combos, struggles to land kill moves, has a mediocre neutral game and all of his moves are unsafe on shield except a well spaced Fair which has 20+ frames of ending lag.

The reason Yoshi is so much better than Dr. Mario is because Dr. Mario is a really bad character and strong candidate to be one of the worst characters in the game while Yoshi is probably top 15. There's no reason to want Yoshi nerfed when he already struggles against some of the best characters in the game (Sheik, Diddy, Sonic, Pikachu, Luigi and Mario).

Yoshi is only "OP" in low level competitive play because he's good at punishing mistakes, but at high/top level play he lacks important tools that the better characters tends to have, such as kill options (Diddy Kong, Luigi, Ness, Rosalina), good neutral game (Sheik, Diddy Kong, Rosalina, Sonic, Mario) and follow ups (Luigi, Ness, Sheik, Diddy kong, Mario)

>bad neutral game
>good jab, aerials, tilts, usmash anti air, projectile that combos into stuff, command grab

Yoshi's problem is relying on reads to get kills instead of having grab follow ups like the low iq characters, that's it. He's otherwise very solid but if you want to play him don't expect to be carried by him.

Have you ever seen a high level Yoshi vs a player that knows what he is doing? fAirs everywhere while struggling to get anything done in the neutral.

And that's why raptor isnt a high level yoshi lmfao. Speaking of that fool saw on twitter that someone said that he said that yoshi didn't have dj armor anymore which is NOT TRUE. smashboards yoshis being hopeless as always, yall stuck on that low tier mindset. instead of ******** about details that make yoshi not braindead, try actually getting good and optimizing your stuff. some much worse characters like robin and shulk actually have good players getting over terrible matchups and winning why every single us yoshi is still bad. smh

 

[Kienamaru]

A DK maining friend of mine stated that it feels like all of Cargo's throws have reduced endlag. He also says that Cargo Dthrow for sure has gotten a KB and possibly even angle change. DK users confirm.

 

[Goesasu]

A DK maining friend of mine stated that it feels like all of Cargo's throws have reduced endlag. He also says that Cargo Dthrow for sure has gotten a KB and possibly even angle change. DK users confirm.

Mine dk friend main say that too and he considered it a nef because now he cant follow up with up airs as he used too.

Also dk up and down tilt has more endlag, very noticable tbh you have to be blind to not see it.

 

[Lukingordex]

>bad neutral game
>good jab, aerials, tilts, usmash anti air, projectile that combos into stuff, command grab

Yoshi's problem is relying on reads to get kills instead of having grab follow ups like the low iq characters, that's it. He's otherwise very solid but if you want to play him don't expect to be carried by him.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this but mediocre means that it's useful but not amazing, it's different from "bad". In other extend, there are characters like Sheik, Diddy, Mario and some others that are clearly better than Yoshi in that department.

I didn't say he has bad jabs, neither bad aerials, neither bad tilts, neither a bad usmash and neither that egg throw can't combo into an aerial (despite it being situational) so I don't see the point of this part of your post.

I clearly said Yoshi is in the top 15 range so I obviously don't think he's bad, what I tried to inform with my post is that he's not as good as the likes of Sheik or Diddy.

 

[Kienamaru]

Wii Fit Trainer... did her bair, dair, and nair always get a 2% buff from Deep Breathing? I know the rest of her moves only get 1%. WFT users confirm.

 

[godogod]

Can anyone test the movement speed, weight and other attributes of Lucas, Ryu, and Roy?

 

[Runic_SSB]

Okay this thread almost immediately turned into an unflushed Taco Bell toilet, but I'm gonna start testing some other characters (Wii U vs. 3DS, so I can't accurately test kill %s) after I figure out just how much of a monster Roy is (seriously, forward smash hits frame 14 and kills Bowser at 70% fresh at the spawning point of FD).

 

[WwwWario]

You ever play him pre-patch? It was always that big.

Nah, you sure? Skip to 0:14 on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SU2CcZ8cck

 

[WeirdJoe27]

Nah, you sure? Skip to 0:14 on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SU2CcZ8cck

I think Yoshi is going for an attack, thus increasing his hurtbox and making Doc's upB hitbox appear bigger. I've been playing and I can't replicate it. I think it was just an anomaly since Yoshi can attack so fast out of hitstun. If you slow the video down frame-by-frame, you can sort of see him going into an attack animation just as the upB starts.

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

I have the feeling that the Knee of Justice has less lag... The animation seems to be faster. May anyone confirm it?

 

[Runic_SSB]

I have the feeling that the Knee of Justice has less lag... The animation seems to be faster. May anyone confirm it?

No noticeable difference in landing lag or duration. If there is a difference, it's too small for me to notice even at 1/4 speed.

 

[Onyxsbayne]

Do we have a master thread somewhere of all the confirmed changes? Scrolling through pages of speculation doesn't exactly thrill me.

 

[JAZZ_]

Sometimes we all just have to live with another Marth clone. The world is cruel like that.

Interestingly enough Roy isn't as Clone like as he used to be, his specials are mostly untouched but all his tilts and his jabs flow in an odd but eccentric way that is kind of awesome

 

[Naklsonofnakkl]

As someone who uses as his main, I can confirm his UpB has been shortened. A lot less distance can be covered using it.
As for speculation, I think the hitbox for drills have been altered, they seem to be harder to pin down unless enemy is directly on them. Canon seems a bit faster to charge/fire and grab seems faster. Not sure on percentages, I'll have to compare and confirm.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Im definatly going to check for main character changes later


Im wondering if some nut while check the data files again

And ruin everything again

(Ryu and roy leaked early)

 

[RaptorTEC]

Yoshi's problem is relying on reads to get kills instead of having grab follow ups like the low iq characters, that's it. He's otherwise very solid but if you want to play him don't expect to be carried by him.





And that's why raptor isnt a high level yoshi lmfao. Speaking of that fool saw on twitter that someone said that he said that yoshi didn't have dj armor anymore which is NOT TRUE. smashboards yoshis being hopeless as always, yall stuck on that low tier mindset. instead of ******** about details that make yoshi not braindead, try actually getting good and optimizing your stuff. some much worse characters like robin and shulk actually have good players getting over terrible matchups and winning why every single us yoshi is still bad. smh

Agree with what Yoshis flaw is. That's pretty much it. Nothing huge.

Anyway, idk why you always randomly bring up my name I've seen you do it many times and you're always talking ****. I have results and wins to back myself up so think whatever you want, but if you spent all that time practicing instead of hating maybe you would actually be doing something for once. Free

The double jump armor removal was a joke and people realized I was trolling by the end of the day.

Edit: Once again people are way overrating Yoshi, if they think he's OP. He's 10-12th best in the game at best. He's a well rounded character but his inability to get easy kills in a game where rage is such a big factor sets him back. He has to work for kills. If he had a kill throw or combo throw or anything that the real top characters had he'd easily be top 5 but he doesn't. If you're dying to Yoshi easily learn the MU or work on your fundamentals

 

[CrazyPerson]

This is a really long thread that I don't have the time to read through... but is there a place with all the balance changes... sense devs nerfed my best kill move with my main unnecessarily... jerks...

 

[WeirdJoe27]

This is a really long thread that I don't have the time to read through... but is there a place with all the balance changes... sense devs nerfed my best kill move with my main unnecessarily... jerks...

Right now it seems no one is interested in checking what has changed in the patch, but more just playing all the new content. That's cool, but I do wish more was being done to test the characters like it's been done in the past.

 

[CrazyPerson]

Right now it seems no one is interested in checking what has changed in the patch, but more just playing all the new content. That's cool, but I do wish more was being done to test the characters like it's been done in the past.

It shouldn't be on us to figure out how it changed... that is work... work is the developers job not the customer's job.

There should be clear patch notes given out whenever big changes are made...

But sense that won't happen I really appreciate all the people who do the unpaid work to figure stuff out.

Thank you in advance to all who do!

 

[WeirdJoe27]

It shouldn't be on us to figure out how it changed... that is work... work is the developers job not the customer's job.

There should be clear patch notes given out whenever big changes are made...

But sense that won't happen I really appreciate all the people who do the unpaid work to figure stuff out.

Thank you in advance to all who do!

Couldn't agree more. It's extremely frustrating and disappointing that Sakurai and Nintendo absolutely refuse to release patch notes. They know what's been changed, why not share that information with the world? What is there to hide?

And yes, a huge thanks to all those that spend their own time and effort figuring this stuff out for the community.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Does anyone know where Lucas, Roy, and Ryu are placed in All-Star mode's chronological order? So far, we know that Mewtwo is placed between Diddy Kong and Pikachu.

 

[Iblistech]

Does anyone know where Lucas, Roy, and Ryu are placed in All-Star mode's chronological order? So far, we know that Mewtwo is placed between Diddy Kong and Pikachu.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/All-Star_Mode

This might help.

 

[JipC]

Nah, you sure? Skip to 0:14 on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SU2CcZ8cck

You can see Yoshi going off for a fair
Edit: oh the second one. Yeah it was always pretty big.

 

[divade]

I agree that It would be nice if op could setup a speculation and confirm list of changes.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

Usually when a balance patch is released, everyone goes nuts trying to figure out what's been changed. This time, no one seems interested in the least. I know it's because of all the DLC goodness, but still, we should be testing what's been changed.

 

[divade]

Usually when a balance patch is released, everyone goes nuts trying to figure out what's been changed. This time, no one seems interested in the least. I know it's because of all the DLC goodness, but still, we should be testing what's been changed.

I'm not on my pc tonight to go through every entry, but I've heard DK, BowJr, have speculation and I think Dr Mario's up special was deconfirmed.

 

[Leford]

Changes in Link:
AERIALS
U-Air: nothing.
D-Air: little stronger KB.
F-Air: Weaker KB, less damage. I remember it was 21% of damage, now its 18%
B-Air: Weaker KB, less damage, before: 10% and now:7%. But its fine, now the doble B-Air combo can now be more times.
N-Air: More damage, before: 10% and now: 11%.

SPECIALS
Up-B: in the air, nothing, in the ground, sends oponents less higher, and more to the sides.
Side-B: Nothing.
Neutral-B: Nothing.
Down-B: If the bombs hit only with the explosion, I mean, not directly with the oponent, deals 9% of damage now, before it was 10%

NORMAL ATTACKS:
Up-Tilt: less KB at low %, but in higher % its more strong.
Side-Tilt: nothing.
Down-Tilt: more faster, less KB, damage reduced from 12% to 11%
Jab: First two hits are more faster.
Dash Attack: nothing.

SMASH ATTACKS:
Up-Smash: Now have a suction effect and increased damage from 17%-23% to 18%-23%.
F-Smash: Nothing.
D-Smash: In the first hit, with the body of the sword do a little stun and deals more damage, now its:17% before it was 14%?.

GRABS
Z-Air: nothing
Grab: the clawshot have more range and priority, can easily grab oponents are falling or not are in the ground.
U-Throw: Nothing.
D-Throw: Have less KB, now can be use to do most combos.
F-Throw: Nothing.
B-Throw: Nothing.
Pummel: Nothing.

Some of this information may not be correct , I am someone who plays a lot with Link, and those are the changes that could have noticed .
If you have some more information about the changes in link , share : D
Daddy Sakurai tried to make a character more likely to combos, and with stronger smash attacks, the current link now would focus using the Clawshot and D -throw to make combos and accumulate damage , instead of the previous one was devoted to spacing and spam.
I apologize if I errors when writing in English is not my native language , and I 'm trying to learn independently.

 

[Retroend]

can anyone post any changes done to ness and kirby? i can't seem to find any info.

 

[Runic_SSB]

Here's a list of the current confirmed findings from the character boards. Any character not listed doesn't have confirmed changes yet. Note that this is not cataloging how universal changes effect each character individually:

Bowser:

• Up tilt now hits in front of Bowser, hits 1 frame earlier, can be acted out of 10 frames earlier, and does 1% less damage.

Captain Falcon:

• Up air does 2% less damage and less knockback.
• Down throw does more knockback.

Charizard:

• Down throw's knockback has been reduced severely and now sends opponents upward instead of to the side.
• Up throw's knockback has been increased severely.

Diddy Kong:

• Up air has 2 extra frames of landing lag and has less horizontal reach.
• Down throw does 1% less damage.
• Forward air no longer auto-cancels.

Donkey Kong:

• Forward Cargo Toss does 2% more damage and has less endlag.
• Backwards Cargo Toss does 4% more damage, has less endlag, and sends the opponent at a more vertical angle.
• Upward Cargo Toss does 3% more damage.
• Downward Cargo Toss does 1% more damage, has less endlag, and has a mini hop that floats you while throwing them in the air.

Falco:

• Jab no longer knocks opponents behind him.
• Neutral air's second hit does 1% less damage, all hits connect better, and the final hit now always knocks the opponent in front of Falco.
• Forward air now has 6 hits instead of 5. It does 1% more damage if all hits connect, the landing hit does 2% less damage, it has faster start up, and has less landing lag.
• Up air does 1% less damage and comes out 3 frames earlier.
• Down air no longer spikes grounded opponents and has less landing lag.

Greninja:

• Forward tilt comes out faster.

Ike:

• Forward tilt comes out faster, but does 2% less damage.
• Dash attack comes out faster and does 4% more damage.
• Neutral air has less landing lag.
• Up B's suction properties altered.
• Jab 1 transitions into Jab 2 faster, and Jab 3 covers its animation.
• Forward air covers its animation and has less landing lag.
• Up air has a lot less landing lag
• Down air has a lot less landing lag.
• Side B comes out earlier.

Kirby:

• Up angled forward smash does 1% less damage.

Link:

• Down tilt is now faster, but its spike is significantly weaker.
• Down throw now knocks opponents almost directly upward.
• All individual hits of up smash connect better.
• Grab range is longer.
• Hylian Shield now blocks Villager's slingshot.

Lucina:

• Jab 1 can no longer jab lock and properly combos into Jab 2.
• Forward Tilt does 0.5% more damage.

Marth:

• Jab 1 does 1% less damage, can no longer jab lock, and properly combos into Jab 2.
• Up tilt is faster and more powerful, body hitbox now sends opponents upward.
• Neutral air has less landing lag.

Meta Knight:

• Endlag on jab lowered.
• Forward tilt now has better reach, does 1% more damage, sends opponents at a different angle, and has significantly increased knockback.
• Neutral air has less endlag.

Mii Swordfighter:

• Back air does 2% more damage.

Mr. Game & Watch:

• Down tilt does more knockback.

Ness:

• Charged up smash has higher knockback when hitting behind Ness.
• Charged down smash has slightly lower knockback.
• Forward throw has increased knockback.
• Down throw does 2% less damage and has increased knockback.
• Down B's endlag has been severely reduced.

Palutena:

• Up tilt does more damage, no longer does reduced damage when hitting from behind, and the vacuum effect is slightly more pronounced.

(Dark) Pit:

• Forward smash does 1% less damage.
• Down smash does 0.5% less damage.
• Down tilt does 2% less damage.

Robin:

• Tomes and Levin Sword do 1% more damage when thrown normally.

Rosalina:

• Luma's HP increased by 3.

Samus:

• Up smash has larger hitboxes and increased knockback.

Sonic:

• Up smash has lower knockback.
• Up throw has slightly higher knockback.
• Burning Spin Dash does 2% more damage.
• Down air can be interrupted sooner.

Toon Link:

• An exploit where catching a bomb right before it explodes would give you a brand new bomb has been fixed.

Villager:

• Down throw does 2% more damage.
• Pushy Loid does more damage.
• The decay on Up B's travel distance has been increased.

Zelda:

• Up smash has increased knockback.
• Neutral air now does 4% more damage total when hitting in the front of her, but does 4% less damage when hitting behind her.

 

[CycIone]

They nerfed Kirby? How dare they.

 

[Kienamaru]

Changes in Link:
AERIALS
F-Air: Weaker KB, less damage. I remember it was 21% of damage, now its 18%
B-Air: Weaker KB, less damage, before: 10% and now:7%. But its fine, now the doble B-Air combo can now be more times.

I'm almost 100% certain that these attacks have always been this way. I think Link's forward aerial did 21 in Brawl, but not in Smash 4. Can't say KB wise.