Wii U Patch 1.0.8 (Lucas Patch) Data Thread Compilation

[ChikoLad]

I edited my post on Fox. TL;DR Wolf Flash sweetspot got buffed, otherwise still the same.

On a side note, I can't download any of the new DLC because the site is "too busy." It's like one of those zen riddles; how can there be too much traffic if no one can connect?

Getting connected = Arriving at your destination.
Everyone failing to connect = Everyone is stuck in a traffic jam.

 

[WwwWario]

And here I was hoping that Ganondorf's awfully weak Up B would get buffed, since the opponent needs over friggin 200% damage for it to even KO at the middle of the stage. But nah-ah, not even touched *sigh*

 

[Afro Smash]

Samus Up Smash got knockback buff

 

[CycIone]

Can anyone confirm the new stages showing up in Fun and Glory rooms?

 

[Ze Diglett]

I fought a Roy on N64 Dream Land Omega not too long ago on Glory. So yes, I can confirm, at least on Glory.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Wow...Did DK get buffed? No joke...
@ WwwWario is there anything changed with Ganon?
Damn...he really needs that Up B buff to be complete monster

 

[WeirdJoe27]

And here I was hoping that Ganondorf's awfully weak Up B would get buffed, since the opponent needs over friggin 200% damage for it to even KO at the middle of the stage. But nah-ah, not even touched *sigh*

If Doc's upB didn't get buffed, not sure why Dorf's would. He still has a better recovery than Doc and Mac.

 

[EXOgreyfox]

Any news on jiggs? she seems unchanged so far..

 

[CycIone]

Wow...Did DK get buffed? No joke...

Is his final smash better too?

 

[CycIone]

On an unrelated note, for some reason the games I'm playing with Kirby today all feel very good. Either I'm getting stronger or Kirby is stronger. The exception was a skilled Robin who got in my way and countered a KO move by KOing me while I had hardly any damage. Way too OP, counter still is.

 

[WwwWario]

If Doc's upB didn't get buffed, not sure why Dorf's would. He still has a better recovery than Doc and Mac.

Doc's Up B did actually get buffed. A MUCH bigger hitbox on his sweetspot Up B

 

[Kempatsu]

I made sure I used Yoshi about 10 times before posting this. F-air and Fsmash feel slower.

He just feels a TON slower all around.

 

[divade]

Robin cannot count

On an unrelated note, for some reason the games I'm playing with Kirby today all feel very good. Either I'm getting stronger or Kirby is stronger. The exception was a skilled Robin who got in my way and countered a KO move by KOing me while I had hardly any damage. Way too OP, counter still is.

Robin cannot counter?

 

[WeirdJoe27]

Doc's Up B did actually get buffed. A MUCH bigger hitbox on his sweetspot Up B

True, but his recovery is the same.

 

[Kienamaru]

I was messing around with Robin, will need someone else to confirm this. Comparing my results with the Smash Wikia, the following has been changed:


Tome tossing
normal toss 1% stronger (10%)

Levin tossing
normal toss 1% stronger (12%)

Timer says Levin resets after 9 seconds. I'm counting 8. Might just be my timing being off though.

Grab range possibly slightly increased?

Arcfire: increased damage 3% (10- 13%)

 

[WeirdJoe27]

I made sure I used Yoshi about 10 times before posting this. F-air and Fsmash feel slower.

He just feels a TON slower all around.

If accurate...... good! He needed to be slowed down to compensate for his weight. Maining Dr. Mario causes to despise characters that are quick, with good jump height, but also weighing a good amount. Why isn't Doc's weight higher when he can't move fast and can't jump high? Someone missed leg day at the gym?

 

[WeirdJoe27]

I fought a Roy on N64 Dream Land Omega not too long ago on Glory. So yes, I can confirm, at least on Glory.

Have you purchased Dream Land? I'm curious if the DLC stages will show up in For Glory for those that may not have purchased them.

 

[salaboB]

If accurate...... good! He needed to be slowed down to compensate for his weight. Maining Dr. Mario causes to despise characters that are quick, with good jump height, but also weighing a good amount. Why isn't Doc's weight higher when he can't move fast and can't jump high? Someone missed leg day at the gym?

If Yoshi got his attack startups slowed down then I hope he had some of the lag after them reduced too.

Almost all of Yoshi's attacks are punishable once you know how he plays, I think he's consistently being overrated because people just don't know what he does.

Also, you should be asking for Dr Mario buffs, not nerfs to everyone else above him (Which would be an awful lot of the cast...)

 

[Ze Diglett]

Have you purchased Dream Land? I'm curious if the DLC stages will show up in For Glory for those that may not have purchased them.

No, I didn't buy Dream Land yet. I might in a future, though.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

If Yoshi got his attack startups slowed down then I hope he had some of the lag after them reduced too.

Almost all of Yoshi's attacks are punishable once you know how he plays, I think he's consistently being overrated because people just don't know what he does.

Also, you should be asking for Dr Mario buffs, not nerfs to everyone else above him (Which would be an awful lot of the cast...)

I do! Honestly, even though I believe certain characters are overpowered (and not as many as you might think), I still don't believe they necessarily need to be nerfed. I do think the characters that are obviously lacking need to be buffed in certain areas. Even though most people consider Doc to be low tier, I think it's that they don't know how, or can't, play as him or any character that takes skill. He's more technical than most people give him credit for. He's not your typical powerhouse, you have to read your opponent and be incredibly precise to be successful. When used correctly, he's average at worst. Most people that use characters with quick attacks, quick speeds, super armor and other perks don't quite comprehend the level of skill needed for the "lower tier" of characters. My belief that that a character is considered 'low tier' if they're not as easy to pick up and play rather than underpowered or flat out bad. I always say there are no bad characters in Smash Bros, just bad players.

Regarding what you said about Yoshi, I know how to play against him, but he's still uber quick and a tough match-up for me. Maybe a character with quicker attack start-ups can punish him more, but not Doc. Yoshi can throw out attacks consecutively and seemingly with no cool off. Either way, it's funny how I always see Yoshi players say he's not really that great and hard to use and non-Yoshi players say the exact opposite. Probably the widest difference of opinion of any character in the Smash community.

 

[salaboB]

Regarding what you said about Yoshi, I know how to play against him, but he's still uber quick and a tough match-up for me. Maybe a character with quicker attack start-ups can punish him more, but not Doc. Yoshi can throw out attacks consecutively and seemingly with no cool off. Either way, it's funny how I always see Yoshi players say he's not really that great and hard to use and non-Yoshi players say the exact opposite. Probably the widest difference of opinion of any character in the Smash community.

He's got his weaknesses, they're just not Dr. Mario.

Edit: Specifically what I'm getting at here is that judging a character's strengths from a single character's perspective isn't really a good way to do it. Yoshi has problems with anyone who's very fast themselves -- because then the lag after his attacks really gets him punished. He excels against slower characters that can't recover in time to punish him.

The answer though, is to fix the characters who are too slow to react in time. This will also help *them* in MUs against the very fast, low lag characters -- who probably also give you problems.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

No, I didn't buy Dream Land yet. I might in a future, though.

Interesting. That's good to know. Right now I play mostly online so I decided to skip Dream Land for the time being. My thought is that maybe when the other 2 Smash 64 stages come out, they'll bundle all 3 for a reduced cost. Yeah.... I'm cheap.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

He's got his weaknesses, they're just not Dr. Mario.

Name a few. I'm curious what a Yoshi mainer feels are his weak points. Perhaps I do just approach the match-up poorly and your insight can help me out a little.

 

[salaboB]

Name a few. I'm curious what a Yoshi mainer feels are his weak points. Perhaps I do just approach the match-up poorly and your insight can help me out a little.

Sheik, Sonic, Captain Falcon come to mind.

Fast rush down characters.

How does Doc do against them?

 

[WeirdJoe27]

Sheik, Sonic, Captain Falcon come to mind.

Fast rush down characters.

How does Doc do against them?

They're tough, but I can beat them with reads, spacing and a little luck.

And by 'weaknesses', I more meant character weaknesses, not opponent weaknesses. What traits of Yoshi do you feel are a weakness and/or something that can be exploited? Everyone has tough match-ups, that doesn't mean the character is weak or the opponent is overpowered.

For example, most people say Rosalina is Doc's toughest match-up. I agree, but I've beaten some very tough ones. It's difficult and not fun at all, but not impossible.

 

[PadWarrior]

What's the word on Mario,Luigi, Pit, Greninja and Link? Any changes?

 

[Kienamaru]

Shulk's nair seems to have increased ending lag and landing lag. Someone with two versions compare them at your leisure.

 

[WwwWario]

True, but his recovery is the same.

Yeah, true. And I didn't mean making Ganon's Up B longer. I meant making it a bit more powerful. I mean, to electroshock them and make them blow up should do more than 10 damage.

 

[Lukingordex]

I made sure I used Yoshi about 10 times before posting this. F-air and Fsmash feel slower.

He just feels a TON slower all around.

Yoshi is unchanged in terms of start up lag and ending lag on moves.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

Edit: Specifically what I'm getting at here is that judging a character's strengths from a single character's perspective isn't really a good way to do it. Yoshi has problems with anyone who's very fast themselves -- because then the lag after his attacks really gets him punished. He excels against slower characters that can't recover in time to punish him.

The answer though, is to fix the characters who are too slow to react in time. This will also help *them* in MUs against the very fast, low lag characters -- who probably also give you problems.

You're making an incorrect assumption in that case. I am judging this character based solely on its attributes, not just one or two match-ups. I've played as Yoshi and don't have issues with the characters you mentioned. Rushdown characters can be tough match-ups for a lot of players, you just have to know how to read and counter them with the character you're being. As Doc, you'd think rushdown characters would be bad, but I can often use that against them.

Again, no characters are bad, just the player. You have to know how to minimize your character's weaknesses and maximize their strengths (and even you must admit Yoshi has an awful lot of strengths compared to 90% of the roster). On the other hand, since I main Doc, I'll admit he does have weaknesses as a character that are easily exploited by the majority of the roster. I use those weaknesses to my advantage. If I win as Doc, that's on me, not the character since I was going in at a disadvantage.

Ultimately, though, the problem with 'balance' in Smash is that some characters simply have more advantages versus disadvantages. In my opinion, for every advantage a character has, he should have an equal disadvantage. I like to use Little Mac as a good example of this. He's very fast, very strong and has more Super Armor than he knows what to do with. On the flip side, if you get him over the edge, he can't do much to get back on stage. He also has no aerial game. Thus, I feel he's balanced.

On the other hand, I look at Doc and Yoshi as being imbalanced. Yoshi is heavy, but moves quick. He also has a high jump that has Super Armor. He's very strong and can rack up damage with his quick attacks that can easily be strung together as well as a homing projectile. His Fair spike is easy and safe. Low risk, high reward. Doc weighs the same as Mario, but is slower and has no vertical distance on his jumps. He's strong, but I'm not sure he's any stronger than Mario or Luigi. His attacks come out very slow and he can be punished quite easily. His Tornado has good priority, but has horrible ending lag, thus it's also quite punishable. He has no spike and his best move (Fair) is tough to hit and you're a sitting duck if you whiff it. High risk, low reward.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

Yeah, true. And I didn't mean making Ganon's Up B longer. I meant making it a bit more powerful. I mean, to electroshock them and make them blow up should do more than 10 damage.

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense, but when you have tilts that act like smashes, I'm not sure you need more damage.

 

[Lukingordex]

On the other hand, I look at Doc and Yoshi as being imbalanced. Yoshi is heavy, but moves quick. He also has a high jump that has Super Armor. He's very strong and can rack up damage with his quick attacks that can easily be strung together as well as a homing projectile. His Fair spike is easy and safe. Low risk, high reward. Doc weighs the same as Mario, but is slower and has no vertical distance on his jumps. He's strong, but I'm not sure he's any stronger than Mario or Luigi. His attacks come out very slow and he can be punished quite easily. His Tornado has good priority, but has horrible ending lag, thus it's also quite punishable. He has no spike and his best move (Fair) is tough to hit and you're a sitting duck if you whiff it. High risk, low reward.

git gud

Yoshi has some weakness that really hurts him. His grab game is high risk/low reward, doesn't have much true combos, struggles to land kill moves, has a mediocre neutral game and all of his moves are unsafe on shield except a well spaced Fair which has 20+ frames of ending lag.

The reason Yoshi is so much better than Dr. Mario is because Dr. Mario is a really bad character and strong candidate to be one of the worst characters in the game while Yoshi is probably top 15. There's no reason to want Yoshi nerfed when he already struggles against some of the best characters in the game (Sheik, Diddy, Sonic, Pikachu, Luigi and Mario).

Yoshi is only "OP" in low level competitive play because he's good at punishing mistakes, but at high/top level play he lacks important tools that the better characters tends to have, such as kill options (Diddy Kong, Luigi, Ness, Rosalina), good neutral game (Sheik, Diddy Kong, Rosalina, Sonic, Mario) and follow ups (Luigi, Ness, Sheik, Diddy kong, Mario)

 

[JipC]

Doc's Up B did actually get buffed. A MUCH bigger hitbox on his sweetspot Up B

You ever play him pre-patch? It was always that big.

 

[Aenglaan]

Changes I've noticed:

-n-air has quicker start-up

-f-air quicker start-up and faster
-f-tilt has less lag

-jab connects better.

There's probably *a lot* more, but these really stuck out to me.

 

[Meian]

Here is to hoping they don't nerf Palutena's custom move game.

Yoshi is only "OP" in low level competitive play because he's good at punishing mistakes, but at high/top level play he lacks important tools that the better characters tends to have, such as kill options (Diddy Kong, Luigi, Ness, Rosalina), good neutral game (Sheik, Diddy Kong, Rosalina, Sonic, Mario) and follow ups (Luigi, Ness, Sheik, Diddy kong, Mario)

LOL these are exactly the reasons why Yoshi is incredibly good, just... wow that you said that haha oh boy highlight of the night outside of the patch.

 

[Lukingordex]

Then prove in a tournament that I am wrong.

 

[godogod]

It's also worth noting that buying any item/bundle for both consoles is cheaper than buying them for one console now and another console later.

If you have only one system/version of the game, but plan to get the other eventually anyway, you're best off buying whatever content you want for both versions now.

To save time, yeah.. But there can be discounts down the road.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Here is to hoping they don't nerf Palutena's custom move game.



LOL these are exactly the reasons why Yoshi is incredibly good, just... wow that you said that haha oh boy highlight of the night outside of the patch.

Have you ever seen a high level Yoshi vs a player that knows what he is doing? fAirs everywhere while struggling to get anything done in the neutral.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Ah, gotcha. That makes sense, but when you have tilts that act like smashes, I'm not sure you need more damage.

There is never enough damage for Ganon

 

[WeirdJoe27]

git gud

Yoshi has some weakness that really hurts him. His grab game is high risk/low reward, doesn't have much true combos, struggles to land kill moves, has a mediocre neutral game and all of his moves are unsafe on shield except a well spaced Fair which has 20+ frames of ending lag.

The reason Yoshi is so much better than Dr. Mario is because Dr. Mario is a really bad character and strong candidate to be one of the worst characters in the game while Yoshi is probably top 15. There's no reason to want Yoshi nerfed when he already struggles against some of the best characters in the game (Sheik, Diddy, Sonic, Pikachu, Luigi and Mario).

Yoshi is only "OP" in low level competitive play because he's good at punishing mistakes, but at high/top level play he lacks important tools that the better characters tends to have, such as kill options (Diddy Kong, Luigi, Ness, Rosalina), good neutral game (Sheik, Diddy Kong, Rosalina, Sonic, Mario) and follow ups (Luigi, Ness, Sheik, Diddy kong, Mario)

You're joking, right? I can't even justify this with a real response.