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Why would Sakurai ignore the most popular character choices?

Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
1,538
Anyway, let's say that this 35-roster is true. Not discussing the count, but that specific roster with ROB and such in it.

Hidden characters in Brawl that people disliked as a whole:

Wolf
ROB

Hidden characters in Melee that people disliked as a whole:

Pichu
Dr. Mario
Mr. Game & Watch

More to hate about that, and at least Brawl doesn't have two characters that people not only hated before they were played as, but also hated as being redundant.
 

LucidDreamGod

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
67
Location
New York
S'cool. It happens.




Not really, and not necessarily. We'll see how Falco/Wolf/Falco and Wolf? will play

Krystal is kind of...awkward to talk about due to the fact that, sadly, a lot of her fanbase is filled to the brim with furry types. They're all extremely adamant about her addition mostly because of that. It's true...look at most fansites for her. They're really creepy.

As for this being "Melee Special Edition," Melee had so much less roster-wise that it may as well been called "Super Smash Bros. Special Edition." What people are failing to understand is that despite the roster being the most valued of the hardcore community, the biggest factor between Melee's additions from the original, and Brawl's additions from Melee are the various modes and little gimmicky type things.

Sure, we didn't get everything we wanted, but we got leaps and bounds more new moveset playables than Melee. The problem was, the majority of them were revealed to us from the get-go. The surprise of Snake and Sonic were spoiled too, which I think was kind of a mistake. Remember, Sakurai said he'd make sure MOST of the characters weren't secret, since people would play against them online anyway. That's why the 35/37 roster (35 + Dark Samus and Michaiah) seems likely.

But we're still getting potentially hundreds of songs, 41 stages if the 35 leak is true, Subspace Emissary with customizable characters, hundereds more trophies, a ton of stickers, and a roster that DOES put Melee's to shame, even if it lacks this guy and that guy.

MAYBE we'll get hit with some 60 character behemoth of liquid awesome, but can we please stop counting on it like it's required of them to do that? Game design is a creative business, an artistic industry. Zinfandel phrased my thoughts to a tee.
Yeah alot of what you said is true, I thought that low 30's would even be nice back when I didn't know about SWF's prodictions, and I honestly though there would be way less characters from melee reuturning, I know think the leak could be true, but really it doesn't stand up much do people really think there would be any more then 35 playable characters in a nintendo game, the game wasn't made really for hardcore players, thats not nintendos style.
 

Black/Light

Smash Master
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
3,207
You know what? I believe this 35 roster is real MOSTLY because of all the backing for it but partly because of the out-rage about it.

Think, when has there EVER been a roster leak that has gotten THIS much attention? We have been getting ton of fake rosters for the past month or so and NO ONE made much of a out-rage for it. . .why is this different? Cause of all the backing it has from reliable leakers.

This is EXACTLY who I would think people would react to a true roster leak.
"But SSBB is a fan servies so WHY would Sakurai choose Wolf over Krystal/ No ridley/ No Geno etc etc etc?". . . when the hell has Smash ever given fans exactly what they wanted? Getting Pitt/ MK/ D3/ Diddy/ Sonic/ Wario/ The RB STARTERS/ Lucario (AKA blue doggy) and most likely decloning of Falco/ Ganon/ Y Link seems to be a good amount of fan serving IMO.
 

LucidDreamGod

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
67
Location
New York
I'm actually getting used to the idea, I could even use Falco, hopefully he isn't nerfed (Though I'm prone to switching mains every month or so :p) guess this means a higher roster would be an even bigger suprise for me now.
 

PrettyGoodYear

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
1,792
Location
Panama, Panama, Central America...
Anyway, let's say that this 35-roster is true. Not discussing the count, but that specific roster with ROB and such in it.

Hidden characters in Brawl that people disliked as a whole:

Wolf
ROB

Hidden characters in Melee that people disliked as a whole:

Pichu
Dr. Mario
Mr. Game & Watch

More to hate about that, and at least Brawl doesn't have two characters that people not only hated before they were played as, but also hated as being redundant.
Then again Melee was rushed, and 2 of those characters you mentioned were clones, last minute additions, each with their own explanation.

There's hardly an excuse now. Making sucky clones is one thing, but making sucky originals is another.
 

White_Lightning

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
239
Location
Washington State
I posted this in another topic, but it got ignored...

Asking only for popular characters to appear in Smash... doesn't get me excited - Masahiro Sakurai

Just something to keep in mind when your main argument against the 35 roster is because it doesn't have as many popular characters as you expected. Don't get me wrong, I don't fully believe the 35 roster, my belief is only that it could be real.
 

PrettyGoodYear

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
1,792
Location
Panama, Panama, Central America...
I posted this in another topic, but it got ignored...

Asking only for popular characters to appear in Smash... doesn't get me excited - Masahiro Sakurai

http://wii.qj.net/Smash-Bros-Brawl-U...g/49/aid/52149

Just something to keep in mind when your main argument against the 35 roster is because it doesn't have as many popular characters as you expected. Don't get me wrong, I don't fully believe the 35 roster, my belief is only that it could be real.
Out of context. That dude was actually asking about Mario and Link. :ohwell:

I he meant Popular as "well known" not as in "likeable". See the difference?
 

Igneous42

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Messages
964
Location
Colorado
Anyway, let's say that this 35-roster is true. Not discussing the count, but that specific roster with ROB and such in it.

Hidden characters in Brawl that people disliked as a whole:

Wolf
ROB

Hidden characters in Melee that people disliked as a whole:

Pichu
Dr. Mario
Mr. Game & Watch

More to hate about that, and at least Brawl doesn't have two characters that people not only hated before they were played as, but also hated as being redundant.
There is a Major flaw in your post. One not everyone hates Game and Watch, and not everyone hated him when they first saw him. But that goes without saying that not only as smash fans but gamers as a whole have grown up. When we saw that character in melee most of us were like wth who is that? But knowing who he is most of us understand why he's in now.

ROB doesn't have that, G&W is important, ROB is not. ROB is an old extra that never really did anything major for Nintendo. G&W represents the predecessors to the game boy, the best selling line of systems ever, not only for Nintendo.

And Pichu and Doc are both clones, so while not prime character it makes sense to have them get in before other popular character. There was significantly less work to add them in than to create another entire moveset.

Melee's roster made sense. the 35 one doesn't. That doesn't mean it's fake, but I also don't think people should go around saying we should take it as fact.
 
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
1,538
Then again Melee was rushed, and 2 of those characters you mentioned were clones, last minute additions, each with their own explanation.

There's hardly an excuse now. Making sucky clones is one thing, but making sucky originals is another.
Oh, and might I add on the other four clones that people thought were a waste because they lacked any originality in their movesets?

And how people hated the Ice Climbers because they were teh lame?

Brawl's roster is better. Much, much, much better. Melee's roster wishes it could dream of being considered even an eighth as good.

So what is bad, then? The only bad pick would be ROB, and the only HONESTLY bad miss would be Ridley (no matter how much you want Krystal, Bowser Jr., King K. Rool, or Isaac, Metroid only has one rep and needs another, more than Star Fox, Mario, DK, and GS need). Perhaps you'll lambaste the roster size? Well, it's perfectly great. The fact of the matter is that clones don't count in this comparison - you can't compare quasi-characters to full characters. Melee has only 20 original characters, eight new. Brawl has, so far, 27 characters, 14 new. 12 new, starting characters. Melee had four. Hell, we got more newcomers in the starting roster than SSB has characters. That Melee has hidden characters. That Melee has original newcomers. The only thing Melee's got Brawl beat in so far is "number of newcomers, original or not, versus number of starting newcomers".

On top of ignoring the vast number of newcomers as well as how great most of them have been, you also ignore that he needed to spend as much time implementing Ganondorf, Young Link, and presumably Falco, since he's not just going to give them their old clone movesets and a make-over. So in all intents and purposes, those three count as new characters. So that's 17. And what with Luigi and Ness only needing new B moves, Hell, that's easy as cake. So that's 19. And then, if this roster is true (it isn't, but let's say it is), Wolf, Lucario, and ROB. That's 22. The only one that anyone could complain about is ROB, and the fact remains that people complained about G&W for the exact same reasons.

Face it. The only thing Melee beats Brawl in is the amount of complaints of the roster. It's been the exact same situation with Brawl, so tell me - what happened when people got Melee? I believe they... liked the characters, right? Would that be correct of me to say?

There is a Major flaw in your post. One not everyone hates Game and Watch, and not everyone hated him when they first saw him. But that goes without saying that not only as smash fans but gamers as a whole have grown up. When we saw that character in melee most of us were like wth who is that? But knowing who he is most of us understand why he's in now.

ROB doesn't have that, G&W is important, ROB is not. ROB is an old extra that never really did anything major for Nintendo. G&W represents the predecessors to the game boy, the best selling line of systems ever, not only for Nintendo.

And Pichu and Doc are both clones, so while not prime character it makes sense to have them get in before other popular character. There was significantly less work to add them in than to create another entire moveset.

Melee's roster made sense. the 35 one doesn't. That doesn't mean it's fake, but I also don't think people should go around saying we should take it as fact.
The ROB bundle was the primary reason why stores decided to sell the NES, since gaming was still suffering from the crash.

Didn't do anything for Nintendo, huh?
 

White_Lightning

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
239
Location
Washington State
Out of context. That dude was actually asking about Mario and Link. :ohwell:

I he meant Popular as "well known" not as in "likeable". See the difference?
I think I get what your saying. He meant that he had no interest in having a small roster with only popular characters such as Link and Mario, am I right? Regardless, you still have to remember that Dedede and Wario were the third and fourth most requested characters for SSBM and despite being the second most popular SSB64 character, the only thing that saved Ness' inclusion was Mother 3's delay. I understand Melee was rushed and Brawl isn't, but it's still just something to keep in mind.
 

aznhomieboi1689

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
58
I cant believe people actually want Ridley in this.... =_=.................

EDIT:

And if anyone say anything about R.O.B. as playable....you're dumber than you look.....that is completely idiotic and stupid. And if it ends up being one....I will shoot myself
 

matthewmilad

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
212
I must say that I don't find this 35 character leak to make any sense at all. Of course it's not sure yet if it is true, but if it is, it's just too odd...

I mean most of the most popular characters would be left out, at least as far as playable character goes. I mean no Ridley, no Geno, no Krystal, no Mega Man, and so on. None of the new characters would be female (ZSS doesn't count) besides Krystal I think that Midna and Micaiah would be great choices too.

I just can't believe that he would choose Wolf over Krystal. I have nothing against Wolf, but Krystal is the far popular one, she was one of the highest in Sakurai's poll, why not include that character then? It doesn't make any sense to me... And Ridley, even if I personally doesn't want him that much in because he would feel awkward (spelling?) I still think it seems odd that he would not make it in as a pc. He was also high on Sakurai's poll, and I also think it seems strange that the Metroid franchise would not get a new Playable character (and no, ZSS doesn't count).

And then Geno, I'v read somewhere that Sakurai himself like this character because it reminds him of Pinochio (Spelling?) and he was also one of the highest on the poll. Doesn't the poll mean anything??

I don't think I need to explain myself with the other characters I mentioned. Other popular characters didn't make it too like Claus, Isaac, Bowser JR and so on, instead they have ROB which I might add feels a little like a punch in the face. Rob of all characters instead many of the most popular choices!

I just doesn't think this makes any sense at all. But if it's true, I will still buy the game, and I will enjoy it. So this isn't a "I won't buy it because my favorite characters isn't in it" thread. I just feel a little dissapointed and doesn't understand this at all.

Does anyone else think this doesn't make any sense?


It makes plenty of sense, and it is perfectly believable until you get to R.O.B.
Expect the final roster to be very similar to that (except for R.O.B..)
Krystal, Ridley, and Claus, and Micaiah are inferior selectable characters compared to guys like Wolf, Marth, Hector, Lucario, etc. Get over it.

Ridley = boss, Geno = maybe in, but probably too hard to get the rights to.
 

KaiserX

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
258
Then again Melee was rushed, and 2 of those characters you mentioned were clones, last minute additions, each with their own explanation.

There's hardly an excuse now. Making sucky clones is one thing, but making sucky originals is another.
Did you just honestly say that crappy clones is BETTER than crappy originals?

Who's to say Brawl isn't "rushed" from a developer perspective of what he wanted to do, even with delays? A lot of these deadlines come as the result of the publisher.
 

matthewmilad

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
212
Anyway, let's say that this 35-roster is true. Not discussing the count, but that specific roster with ROB and such in it.

Hidden characters in Brawl that people disliked as a whole:

Wolf
ROB

Hidden characters in Melee that people disliked as a whole:

Pichu
Dr. Mario
Mr. Game & Watch

More to hate about that, and at least Brawl doesn't have two characters that people not only hated before they were played as, but also hated as being redundant.


I don't know who you think you are saying Wolf and G+W are disliked as a whole.
Wolf is a very popular character being supported for this game, why don't you get over yourself?
And I know many people are awaiting G+W's return.
 

PrettyGoodYear

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
1,792
Location
Panama, Panama, Central America...
Oh, and might I add on the other four clones that people thought were a waste because they lacked any originality in their movesets?
People thought this, people thought that... did you conduct polls or something?

And how people hated the Ice Climbers because they were teh lame?
Ice Climbers are awesome.

Brawl's roster is better. Much, much, much better. Melee's roster wishes it could dream of being considered even an eighth as good.
Agreed.

So what is bad, then? The only bad pick would be ROB, and the only HONESTLY bad miss would be Ridley (no matter how much you want Krystal, Bowser Jr., King K. Rool, or Isaac, Metroid only has one rep and needs another, more than Star Fox, Mario, DK, and GS need). Perhaps you'll lambaste the roster size? Well, it's perfectly great. The fact of the matter is that clones don't count in this comparison - you can't compare quasi-characters to full characters. Melee has only 20 original characters, eight new. Brawl has, so far, 27 characters, 14 new. 12 new, starting characters. Melee had four. Hell, we got more newcomers in the starting roster than SSB has characters. That Melee has hidden characters. That Melee has original newcomers. The only thing Melee's got Brawl beat in so far is "number of newcomers, original or not, versus number of starting newcomers".
The misses are the picks OVER other characters, Wolf? ROB? If they were added besides the other characters then fine, but WTF about them getting on instead? And Brawl also has Melee beat in terms of development time. More than double. 35 would be disappointing.

On top of ignoring the vast number of newcomers as well as how great most of them have been, you also ignore that he needed to spend as much time implementing Ganondorf, Young Link, and presumably Falco, since he's not just going to give them their old clone movesets and a make-over. So in all intents and purposes, those three count as new characters. So that's 17. And what with Luigi and Ness only needing new B moves, Hell, that's easy as cake. So that's 19. And then, if this roster is true (it isn't, but let's say it is), Wolf, Lucario, and ROB. That's 22. The only one that anyone could complain about is ROB, and the fact remains that people complained about G&W for the exact same reasons.
I loved G&W, but ROB is another case. He's lame because he makes comebacks in every single series. I'm sick of him having comebacks, let him actually die for once, so maybe his next comeback will matter. He's not even WTF he's just *rollseyes* The WTF character in Brawl has to pack more punch than ROB, I have faith in that.

Face it. The only thing Melee beats Brawl in is the amount of complaints of the roster. It'sbeen the exact same situation with Brawl, so tell me - what happened when people got Melee? I believe they... liked the characters, right? Would that be correct of me to say?
I don't look at the Melee roster with satisfaction... back then I just picked characters and stuck with them. No one liked every single character. And before you say it, yes, that applies to the 35 roster too, but my point is that they can do much better, 2+ years of development time means I'm betting on it.
 

Igneous42

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Messages
964
Location
Colorado
I cant believe people actually want Ridley in this.... =_=.................

EDIT:

And if anyone say anything about R.O.B. as playable....you're dumber than you look.....that is completely idiotic and stupid. And if it ends up being one....I will shoot myself
He's a Dragon and a Pirate. That there makes him one of the coolest characters ever. Add to that he's a space pirate. A space pirate dragon. It's like three kind of nerdgasms
 

KaiserX

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
258
I can't believe people actually don't want Ridley in this.....................................

i can overuze periuds tew!
MEGA-ELLIPSES, GOOOOOO.

Anyways, too many posts to go through. But for all the people who said "people didn't like X" being met with "X is awesome!" you're kinda the reason for why I think this will all kind of click and work out, and why I think the initial reaction to this may-be-true roster may just be hot air being blown off. People are just plain opinionated about certain additions. People will enjoy Brawl regardless.
 

ndm508

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
202
Has anyone even thought that we possibly will get new characters via download? I mean it's not like it's an impossibility.
 

berserker515

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
36
Location
East Elmhurst, NY
where did the idea come from that because "supposedly" reliable sources claimed this true that it is? who cares about there credibility? even serebii (who called lucario) has, in the past had false information about diamond/pearl (later blaming it on a misleading source). also does anyone remember that this game is under heavy wraps? game sites like ign have little to no info on this game and everything they do have is just rehashing the dojo. the most we have as info NOT from the dojo are some videos and notes took at gaming conventions. also for the "reliable sources". if the game is under such wraps there is no way in hell reno and whoever could have gotten inside info (i'm also calling lucky with serebii). and another thing (forgive me if i'm wrong on this one) wasn't krystal confirmed in by some voice actor or something? that alone would prove this roster invalid.

on another subject. wolf to me is what shadow is to sonic. nothing more than a knock off of the original (even though they look pretty badass). r.o.b TBH i kinda like but he shouldn't take the place of characters who should be in. sorry to the ridley fans but personally i would like to see a hunter from mp3 or mph (sylux or kanden for brawl!!!).

people also need to think about this. why would they take 6 years to give us what we had before with a little extra? this isn't halo 3!!!!!! and for the pro-35 you are all pretty foolish for buying into it. if reno/watergurl w.e their names are said harry potter was in the game would you believe them? i don't think so. what makes the roster look so believe able is because it took safe ground by just copying the dojo, took what was left from melee and threw in a few safe to assume characters. there was nothing there to raise an eyebrow or make anyone call BS off the bat. so what if their reps are on the line? if i was in the same position as them i would most likely abuse my influence over people too just for kicks. all in all i'm just saying, 31st we'll know. i'm not expecting the worst but i'm prepared for it. it's still fun to speculate who's in being as thats the only thing we have to kill the time.


side notes-MPH sold more than command. it's online is still very much alive and kicking unlike command, which died out 3 months after launch.
 

Reyairia

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
2,473
He's a Dragon and a Pirate. That there makes him one of the coolest characters ever. Add to that he's a space pirate. A space pirate dragon. It's like three kind of nerdgasms
You also forget he's a cyborg with ninja stealth skills. +1000 points of awesomeness, and it's hard to get a 100 out of me, lol.
 

KaiserX

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
258
where did the idea come from that because "supposedly" reliable sources claimed this true that it is? who cares about there credibility? even serebii (who called lucario) has, in the past had false information about diamond/pearl (later blaming it on a misleading source). also does anyone remember that this game is under heavy wraps? game sites like ign have little to no info on this game and everything they do have is just rehashing the dojo. the most we have as info NOT from the dojo are some videos and notes took at gaming conventions. also for the "reliable sources". if the game is under such wraps there is no way in hell reno and whoever could have gotten inside info (i'm also calling lucky with serebii). and another thing (forgive me if i'm wrong on this one) wasn't krystal confirmed in by some voice actor or something? that alone would prove this roster invalid.
Krystal was confirmed via voice actor, which can mean she's in a cutscene or may appear as an AT. There's no guarantee of a character appearence because she was a voice actress. She was down for freakin' Knuckle JOE, too.

people also need to think about this. why would they take 6 years to give us what we had before with a little extra? this isn't halo 3!!!!!!
2 years. Development and resources for a sequel doesn't appear immediately after the first one's done. -_-

and for the pro-35 you are all pretty foolish for buying into it. if reno/watergurl w.e their names are said harry potter was in the game would you believe them? i don't think so. what makes the roster look so believe able is because it took safe ground by just copying the dojo, took what was left from melee and threw in a few safe to assume characters. there was nothing there to raise an eyebrow or make anyone call BS off the bat. so what if their reps are on the line? if i was in the same position as them i would most likely abuse my influence over people too just for kicks. all in all i'm just saying, 31st we'll know. i'm not expecting the worst but i'm prepared for it. it's still fun to speculate who's in being as thats the only thing we have to kill the time.
Their rep isn't on the line. Their accounts are. They'll be IP banned indefinitely.

That's a lot right there.

Foolish or not, we believe what we do. Everything will be clear, in time.
 

Trakor

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
8
Ridley just needs to be in you guys ...
Metroid just deserves it. I honestly think that everyone who clearly DOESNT want him to be in considers Metroid not a good game , thus Nintendo not a perfect game Producer :p
Conclusion : Everone needs to want Ridley ! FOr Nintendo plx !
 

motsalogeL

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 1, 2008
Messages
1,582
But he is making the game FOR us. Why would he not put in characters that people want? Especially when most of them deserve the spot.
 
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