Why So Dead?

[it's Papa]

"Why So Dead?: The Official Ice Climbers Video Thread"

 

[SPAZ494]

Is there a YouTube channel or website that has multiple of your ice climbers videos, Hylian? They are very helpful to me​

 

[941]

Is there a YouTube channel or website that has multiple of your ice climbers videos, Hylian? They are very helpful to me​

I'm not Hylian, but I'll link you his Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCjPmXjg8N6ldIYGKjPakYA

 

[SPAZ494]

Thanks! Hopefully this can give me more ice climbers help.

 

[Hylian]

On another note, here are some highlights from a recent tournament .

Spoiler

 

[941]

So we're posting highlights now?

 

[Foxy K]

Yo @ Hylian how do you do that Nana Ice Block/Popo Fair from the ledge shenanigan? I can't figure it out.

 

[Hylian]

Uh...I don't recall of the top of my head my hands just do it when I'm playing lol. I'm pretty sure it's just me jumping off the ledge and doing a move with popo within the 5 frames she still cannot act off ledge but popo can and then that buffering her getup into me doing another move.

 

[Phresh123]

I'm looking for as much feedback as possible; check me out:

Spoiler

vs Falco

vs ZSS

vs Zelda

Highlights:

Desync Double Down Smash

Handoff

 

[SPAZ494]

Yay! Project M 3.6! I somehow could feel that this was coming soon. So hopefully we'll get some long desired bug fixes on ice climbers! I'm hopeful

 

[it's Papa]

Blew a huge finals tournament set against one of the best players in Ohio tonight because of the turnaround glitch.
Can we please get 3.6, Hylian?

 

[QuickLava]

I've actually been looking to learn IC's for some time now. I think there's a ton of untapped potential here, and I'd like to try to figure some stuff out. So if someone here could potentially point me in the right direction, that'd be great.

 

[Foxy K]

I've actually been looking to learn IC's for some time now. I think there's a ton of untapped potential here, and I'd like to try to figure some stuff out. So if someone here could potentially point me in the right direction, that'd be great.

The right direction? If you're starting from scratch, read the Melee IC boards. Notable differences in PM include Brawl-style Up B tether, both can grab ledge, and almost all desynchs from both brawl and melee are available. Nana is also smart enough to recover on her own, most of the time.

Other than that, just read what's here.

 

[it's Papa]

I've actually been looking to learn IC's for some time now. I think there's a ton of untapped potential here, and I'd like to try to figure some stuff out. So if someone here could potentially point me in the right direction, that'd be great.

Honestly with 3.6 imminent, I wouldn't even bother until the patch drops.

 

[QuickLava]

Even with the patch on it's way, should I not go check out the Melee boards just to try to familiarize myself with the mindset behind the character?

 

[it's Papa]

Read Fly Amanita's guide on the Melee IC board, it's absolutely incredible. As far as actually practicing the character, just wait til the patch.

 

[941]

Even with the patch on it's way, should I not go check out the Melee boards just to try to familiarize myself with the mindset behind the character?

I don't know how much experience you have with Smash, but since I'm currently getting started by playing ICs in Melee/PM, I can tell you what's worked for me. I would suggest reading the melee boards (most specifically the thread on desyncs) and just trying to get a feel for the character. Once you've got an understanding for how the character works on a fundamental level, I would suggest watching some old (like 2006) melee videos of ICs players like Chudat. Study those videos to get an idea for the characters basic options, and try to emulate it as much as possible. I also recommend practicing movement and technical skill with Melee ICs, as PM ICs are a bit buggy and don't always play like they should. Also it can't hurt to practice L-Canceling with a more strict timing. I hope that's enough to get you started with the character, but I'll answer any other questions you may have as best I can.

 

[QuickLava]

Holy crap you guys are quick. But thanks for the advice, I'll get on it.

 

[it's Papa]

I love that the Why so Dead? thread has actually become pretty active lol

 

[941]

I love that the Why so Dead? thread has actually become pretty active lol

"Why So Dead?": the official Ice Climbers everything thread. Once 3.6 drops, the number of PM ICs mains might reach double figures.

 

[Hylian]

After I body some well known players in tournament with them we should see some new mains.

 

[Phresh123]

I love that I named the thread this, because now with the 3.6 on the way it'll be much more of an understatement. IC's are the ****. Also, can I get some feedback on the videos I posted above.

 

[941]

I love that I named the thread this, because now with the 3.6 on the way it'll be much more of an understatement. IC's are the ****. Also, can I get some feedback on the videos I posted above.

Your ICs are pretty good. The only things that come to mind when watching your videos is that you miss ledge handoffs when Nana F-throws, and you sometimes use Ice Blocks or Blizzards from unsafe ranges. You also probably go for the Up-B KOs a bit too much but the style is worth it.

I'm going to predict that @ xFumbles will win at least a regional-size tournament with ICs if they work well enough in 3.6.

 

[it's Papa]

Gonna be an uphill battle for Fumbles considering the two best players in our state have great Peaches and I'm still rocking the Ivysaur. 25:75 matchups for days

 

[941]

I've been thinking that the Peach MU might be a bit better for ICs than people think due to ICs being able to strike/ban FD and Dream Land every game. Still a rough MU, but it's a lot better without those 2 stages.

 

[Sharkz]

I've been thinking that the Peach MU might be a bit better for ICs than people think due to ICs being able to strike/ban FD and Dream Land every game. Still a rough MU, but it's a lot better without those 2 stages.

That still leaves FoD open. Also, some IC's prefer FD against peach (such as DizzKidBoogie).

 

[Foxy K]

In PM, I don't understand why anyone would even try to go ICs against a character like Peach. I love the climbers, but I have no shame using a secondary.

 

[941]

In PM, I don't understand why anyone would even try to go ICs against a character like Peach. I love the climbers, but I have no shame using a secondary.

I do it because all my other characters are as fraud as eSports, and it's easier for me to learn a difficult MU for ICs than it is for me to learn a new character for that MU. I have occasionally played other characters in tournament, but that was mostly because I was getting frustrated with bugs, as well as Nana dying when all she has to do is drift back to the stage.

 

[it's Papa]

it's easier for me to learn a difficult MU for ICs than it is for me to learn a new character for that MU

Peach is really more than just a difficult matchup. ICs Peach is one of the most notoriously brutal matchups in the history of the franchise. It's almost necessary to have a secondary to deal with her, especially since PM ICs can't even fall back on wobbling to stay somewhat in the game, like they can in Melee. The only boon ICs get against Peach in PM is that we can wavedash grab turnips and use them to kinda protect our shield via glide tossing.

 

[941]

Wobbles has beaten some really good Peach players with ICs, so until I'm playing against a Peach that's as good as Armada, I'm just going to play through the bad MUs. ICs only MUs that are +1 or better are low tiers anyway, so if I pick a character for the MU I would rarely play them at all.

 

[xFumbles]

I wish people in my region carpooled and traveled more >_> I only get to go to Smash 4 tournaments now...I barely even like that game! But yeah, ICs have so many unwinnable match-ups. For ME at least, I feel a lot of shame switching character in tournament being one of the only ICs representatives...I'll stay true to the twins as long as I play PM!

 

[Hylian]

I went 100% Ic's at the last two tournaments I went to, one of them being a large regional and got 2nd/5th place . Beat some peaches along the way.

 

[it's Papa]

I've gotten a bunch of KOs lately by landing a grab w/ Popo mid stage on a 90-100% opponent, handing off to Nana (who will always upthrow) and then chasing DI with an up-B. It's absolutely godlike, and I feel like everyone should be doing it.

 

[Phresh123]

I've been doing this for quite some time now. Once nana finishes her u-throw animation i jump with popo then up-b. People aren't aware of how strong this move is. Kill range starts from 60%- 80% stage/height dependable.

 

[Hylian]

I purposefully made it stronger to help with kills against floaty characters also just because it's the longest animation-wise up-b in the game and one of the most punishable, so it made sense to increse the risk/reward aspect of it when used offensively.

But yeah..glad people are utilizing it .

 

[Phresh123]

Just placed my highest at my weekly in my town (5th) with about 25+ entries going all IC's. Because of Nana's Up-throw in the middle of the stage, I was able to capitalize with an up-B and win my set, beating one of the top Bowser mains in PM (Darkblues). It was so hype I was doing some crazy desync setups.

Here's the stream for those who would like to view my match it starts at 01:37:27: http://www.twitch.tv/freesaltines/b/651048425

Here's bracket: http://challonge.com/NovaPMSingles3

 

[Hylian]

IC's vs Bowser is like the worst match-up in the entire game lol :3. Soooooo bad for bowser, you can 0-death him off one grab anywhere on any stage.

Edit:

You have a solid grasp on what you should be doing but your execution is sloppy. Your dthrow dairs need work, you need to know when to not dair and just regrab as well, you drop wayy too many grab combos against the easiest character in the game to grab combo, and you should never miss a single ledge hand-off against bowser. You use basic descynching well but I would like to see some more pivot desynchs instead of mostly spotdodge/roll desychs, though you used them pretty well. You need to learn to invincibile ledge dash and stop squalling back from the ledge. You missed a ton of punish opportunities because you don't really wavedash OoS as well.

Good stuff otherwise.

 

[941]

IC's vs Bowser is like the worst match-up in the entire game lol :3. Soooooo bad for bowser, you can 0-death him off one grab anywhere on any stage..

Can confirm. I have 0-deathed Bowser with SoPo simply by D-throw chaingrabbing across the stage and killing with a F-air spike. There's also that hand-off infinite that's easiest to do on Bowser because of how heavy he is.

Can anyone explain what happened in that third game against DarkBlues (around 1:52:00)? It looked like Bowser was able to get the ledge while Nana was on it causing up-B to fail.

 

[Phresh123]

Thank you for the feedback!

My only question is what is the "invincible ledge dash?"

 

[Hylian]

It's dropping down the first frame you can after grabbing the ledge, jumping, and then airdodging on stage. If you do it fast enough you get an invincible waveland onto the stage, and IC's have one of the best ledgedashes in the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-l4zL-9BiA&t=3m01s