Why is weed illegal?

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

Well, weed prohibits nothing productive towards a re-build upon society. The way I view why the plant is illegal is due to the fact the plant attracts nitwits, established itself as a God to many individuals, and so forth.

Yes Marijuana is used as a medical excuse, but I will vow that 90% of individuals do not carry a medical condition however instead they disguise themselves as they do carry a medical condition when in reality, they're bluffing. Crime rates, death, yes yes same old same old, here's another theory why the plant is jailed up towards freedom. The plant damages the Immune System. Studies have shown that Marijuana effects eighteen particular entities inside the body's Immune System. Yes, well this could be why the plant is put through bars
Here's a link to clarify more professionally: http://www.healthline.com/health/addiction/marijuana/effects-on-body

Yet Hip hop which I'm strongly against encourages this sense of bs to commence, people like Snoop, Wiz and so forth. Keep in mind the plant was legal until 1937 which proves and demonstrates that the plant does effect society and humanity for the worse. I'm willing to put money on the line that you learned to enjoy the plant from watching Hip hop or from your brother which of course learned it from them.

Yes yes, in the old days they smoked the plant, however; society has never become this rampaged and stupid, as much as when Hip hop influenced the plant on a higher caliber that not even Woodstock could reach towards popularity.

Edit:

Forgot to add this, my apologies.

1 in 10 people who regularly smoke marijuana will develop a dependence

Driving while high will double the risk of a car crash

Teenagers who regularly smoke are twice as likely to drop out of school

Chronic use of cannabis as a teenager and into adulthood increases the likelihood of cognitive impairment (though the exact reason why is unknown)

Regular smokers have double the risk of developing mental disorder like schizophrenia, especially if there is a family history and they started smoking in adolescence state.

Marijuana smokers are more likely to develop chronic bronchitis (mucus).

Those who smoke marijuana as a teenager are much more likely to use other/harder illegal drugs

Okay now I'm finished. Thanks.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Well, weed prohibits nothing productive towards a re-build upon society. The way I view why the plant is illegal is due to the fact the plant attracts nitwits, established itself as a God to many individuals, and so forth.

You should meet my father and his group of friends. You could just as easily claim that alcohol attracts nitwits or establishes itself as a God... Actually, that's kind of a really bizarre statement, now that I think about it. What are you even talking about?

Yes Marijuana is used as a medical excuse, but I will vow that 90% of individuals do not carry a medical condition however instead they disguise themselves as they do carry a medical condition when in reality, they're bluffing. Crime rates, death, yes yes same old same old, here's another theory why the plant is jailed up towards freedom. The plant damages the Immune System. Studies have shown that Marijuana effects eighteen particular entities inside the body's Immune System. Yes, well this could be why the plant is put through bars
Here's a link to clarify more professionally: http://www.healthline.com/health/addiction/marijuana/effects-on-body

What they're referring to with the immune system are pilot studies with very little standing. Either way, yes, Marijuana has some effects on the body, not all positive. And most people after medical licenses are looking for them not for any real condition, but because they don't want to get busted. That said, none of this amounts to a particularly strong argument against legalization. There are all kinds of things that are legal and bad for us. Why? Because personal freedom is a convincing argument, and prohibiting something that doesn't hurt anyone other than the person using it leads to a lot of people going to jail for a victimless crime. That's not okay. As I said earlier, it costs billions to uphold these laws. Billions of dollars. Upwards of 10% of the prison population is in jail just for marijuana possession charges. This is worth stopping people from doing something they enjoy and which causes some minor health issues later in life? I don't think the pros outweigh the cons. At all.

Yet Hip hop which I'm strongly against encourages this sense of bs to commence, people like Snoop, Wiz and so forth. Keep in mind the plant was legal until 1937 which proves and demonstrates that the plant does effect society and humanity for the worse. I'm willing to put money on the line that you learned to enjoy the plant from watching Hip hop or from your brother which of course learned it from them.

wat

What are you talking about. Like, what? The bolded might be the worst argument I've ever seen. They banned pot in an attempt to stamp on Mexican immigrants in the 30s (yep, it's racism again!) based largely on things like "reefer madness" - propaganda based on absolutely no data whatsoever. The history of why marijuana is illegal is well-documented and has nothing to do with the plant having a negative effect on society. This would be a terrible argument even if we didn't know why marijuana was made illegal!

1 in 10 people who regularly smoke marijuana will develop a dependence

Citation needed.

Driving while high will double the risk of a car crash

Citation needed; also: still way lower than alcohol.

Teenagers who regularly smoke are twice as likely to drop out of school

Citation needed; also, no ****, nobody is advocating letting children smoke.

Chronic use of cannabis as a teenager and into adulthood increases the likelihood of cognitive impairment (though the exact reason why is unknown)

Citation needed.

Regular smokers have double the risk of developing mental disorder like schizophrenia, especially if there is a family history and they started smoking in adolescence state.

Citation needed.

Marijuana smokers are more likely to develop chronic bronchitis (mucus).

Citation needed.

Those who smoke marijuana as a teenager are much more likely to use other/harder illegal drugs

Citation needed.

Like, I've heard of some of this stuff, but come on. If you're going to throw things like that out there, I expect to be able to look at the research you're citing.

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

You should meet my father and his group of friends. You could just as easily claim that alcohol attracts nitwits or establishes itself as a God... Actually, that's kind of a really bizarre statement, now that I think about it. What are you even talking about?


What they're referring to with the immune system are pilot studies with very little standing. Either way, yes, Marijuana has some effects on the body, not all positive. And most people after medical licenses are looking for them not for any real condition, but because they don't want to get busted. That said, none of this amounts to a particularly strong argument against legalization. There are all kinds of things that are legal and bad for us. Why? Because personal freedom is a convincing argument, and prohibiting something that doesn't hurt anyone other than the person using it leads to a lot of people going to jail for a victimless crime. That's not okay. As I said earlier, it costs billions to uphold these laws. Billions of dollars. Upwards of 10% of the prison population is in jail just for marijuana possession charges. This is worth stopping people from doing something they enjoy and which causes some minor health issues later in life? I don't think the pros outweigh the cons. At all.



wat

What are you talking about. Like, what? The bolded might be the worst argument I've ever seen. They banned pot in an attempt to stamp on Mexican immigrants in the 30s (yep, it's racism again!) based largely on things like "reefer madness" - propaganda based on absolutely no data whatsoever. The history of why marijuana is illegal is well-documented and has nothing to do with the plant having a negative effect on society. This would be a terrible argument even if we didn't know why marijuana was made illegal!



Citation needed.



Citation needed; also: still way lower than alcohol.



Citation needed; also, no ****, nobody is advocating letting children smoke.



Citation needed.



Citation needed.



Citation needed.



Citation needed.

Like, I've heard of some of this stuff, but come on. If you're going to throw things like that out there, I expect to be able to look at the research you're citing.

What exactly makes my argument irrelevant? Weed is now a God to the people man. Many individuals see the plant in that sense of contact. Also here's the facts, I found the facts by the Mayo Clinic of research. The highest standard towards research of any facility. "Nitwit" to explain, all I'm writing in that content is (kids that smoke this plant for fun). As I wrote in my previous comment, there are individuals that need the plant for medical excuses; however, not so many individuals do need the plant to recover so the excuses are bs towards the majority.

See, if you looked closely you would view that I wrote "theory" I'm aware that this the problem towards why the plant wasn't legalized; however, I don't believe that bs that comes out of the government, my apologies if my biases towards the government offends you. I'm just not that type of individual who will believe that absurdity. I've read about the plant and why the plant is put through bars, yet I'm not believing what the government writes about. This will annoy you I'm aware, but I don't care in a sense that I understand your reasoning and hopefully you understand my reasoning. Thanks.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

What exactly makes my argument irrelevant? Weed is now a God to the people man. Many individuals see the plant in that sense of contact.

And I have no idea what this is even supposed to mean. Seriously, what does that mean? When you say "Weed is now a God to the people", what are you talking about? Are people worshipping weed or something? Why should this matter? People worship all kinds of things. I'm not sure what the problem is here, or why this has anything to do with legality.

Also here's the facts, I found the facts by the Mayo Clinic of research. The highest standard towards research of any facility.

Yes, and I'd appreciate a link to that. It's just good practice.

See, if you looked closely you would view that I wrote "theory" I'm aware that this the problem towards why the plant wasn't legalized; however, I don't believe that bs that comes out of the government, my apologies if my biases towards the government offends you. I'm just not that type of individual who will believe that absurdity. I've read about the plant and why the plant is put through bars, yet I'm not believing what the government writes about. This will annoy you I'm aware, but I don't care in a sense that I understand your reasoning and hopefully you understand my reasoning. Thanks.

So wait, you believe the government's motivation was actually better than what is actually recorded in history? That they're lying to make themselves look worse? That's weird. And of course, my sources weren't government sources, but don't let that bother you.

 

[Braydon]

What exactly makes my argument irrelevant?

It's an argument against weed. It says he's wrong to smoke weed, and he cannot believe he is capable of any wrong.

Also one thing I wanted to mention, the roughly 10% who aren't using medical issues as an excuse to smoke weed, they're only lied to to think they need to smoke it, there is a prescription THC drug called dronabinol that offers the same medical benefits and is more pure and therefor safer than marijuana which has a bunch of additional compounds that make it less predictable.

So wait, you believe the government's motivation was actually better than what is actually recorded in history? That they're lying to make themselves look worse? That's weird. And of course, my sources weren't government sources, but don't let that bother you.

Actually they have every motivation to lie to make previous administrations look bad, it makes the current administration look better by comparison, even though it's the worst in history.

Seriously people still act like Nixon's the worst president for planting I think it was 2 cameras and one sound bug, while as Obama has essentially went through with the bugging of the entire world with PRISM.

All right, you clearly missed a few posts, but I'll gladly go over this again. Here's an argument:

Costs of Marijuana Legalization:

• Some people become addicted and suffer as a result
  
• Very mild increase of DUI cases
• ... (you should help fill up this side)

Funny, I seem to remember making more points than that... I especially love how second hand smoke doesn't exist in your world.

Black people get arrested up to 8 times as often, despite the fact that they smoke weed at pretty much the same rates as whites.

Cite sources **** head. Oh wait, that only applies to me apparently...

And even if so, the police being racist doesn't make the law racist, so this is irrelevant.


I love how you are allowed to make arguments without backing like that there's medical need for marijuana because "pharmacology's complicated" with absolutely no evidence to say there is ever a reason to use it over dronabinol.

But when ever I make a perfectly reasonable argument if it isn't absolutely irrefutably proven it can be entirely ignored.

Hell you somehow can blatantly ignore that its a psychoactive drug.


No the reason you have no arguments against legalization is because you're a sociopath who believes your word is worth more than mine, your word is worth less than nothing.

Costs of Marijuana Prohibition:

• Millions of arrests on felony charges for victimless crime, billions of dollars wasted every year enforcing laws for victimless crimes, perpetuation of intense racial bias in law enforcement, and more than 12% of our burgeoning prison system for victimless crime (source: https://www.aclu.org/criminal-law-reform/marijuana-arrests-numbers, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/10/war-on-drugs-prisons-infographic_n_4914884.html)

Victimless crime? What the hell is wrong with you, I've already been over this. People buying Marijuana are financing the drug cartels, responsible for the deaths and ruin of thousands of central and southern Americans. Financing the cartel isn't a victimless crime, buying off the black market is not a victimless crime, you deserve to go to prison, you belong in a prison.

Apparently though my arguments have no merits, south American's lives have no meaning to a sociopath like you.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

It's an argument against weed. It says he's wrong to smoke weed, and he cannot believe he is capable of any wrong.

Maybe you can translate his arguments into english, because I have no idea what he's talking about.

Also one thing I wanted to mention, the roughly 10% who aren't using medical issues as an excuse to smoke weed, they're only lied to to think they need to smoke it, there is a prescription THC drug called dronabinol that offers the same medical benefits and is more pure and therefor safer than marijuana which has a bunch of additional compounds that make it less predictable.

And if you're allergic to one of agents used in the delivery of dronabinol, you're **** outta luck. Look, I'm sorry, are we really going to rehash this **** again? You don't know anything about medicine in general and pharmacology in particular (and genetic engineering, scientific publishing, bias, and quite a few other things to do with medicine and science, but that's another thread - one you abandoned after you realized you couldn't keep up).

Funny, I seem to remember making more points than that...

Then make them! Or link to them, or quote them. I honestly don't care. Add 'em to the list, and show me how it stacks up!

I especially love how second hand smoke doesn't exist in your world.

Okay, we'll add "may cause some minor impairment to those who stand near a whole bunch of other people smoking or in a smoky room". It's not much (we've been over this at length), but it's something.

Cite sources **** head. Oh wait, that only applies to me apparently...

And even if so, the police being racist doesn't make the law racist, so this is irrelevant.

Same ACLU cite as later on: https://www.aclu.org/criminal-law-reform/marijuana-arrests-numbers

Hell you somehow can blatantly ignore that its a psychoactive drug.

I'm pretty sure I never did that.

No the reason you have no arguments against legalization is because you're a sociopath who believes your word is worth more than mine, your word is worth less than nothing.

You know, for all your talk about me insulting people, in this post you've called me "**** head" and "sociopath" so far. And you still haven't made a ****ing argument. See, here's how it would work ideally. You'd take that list, go over what works and what doesn't, add things you feel relevant, and then make the case that the pros outweigh the cons for prohibition. You haven't done that. You've made a couple of arguments while completely ignoring the big picture, glossing over important details, and generally refusing to see the forest for the trees. Yes, I get the Marijuana is psychoactive! I get that there are certain dangers involved in smoking it. I get that someone who is incredibly inattentive in a smoky room might get exposed to active doses of THC without wanting to. How does that fit into the big picture? Is it worth sending hundreds of thousands of people to jail and spending billions of dollars to keep this illegal?

Victimless crime? What the hell is wrong with you, I've already been over this. People buying Marijuana are financing the drug cartels, responsible for the deaths and ruin of thousands of central and southern Americans. Financing the cartel isn't a victimless crime, buying off the black market is not a victimless crime, you deserve to go to prison, you belong in a prison.

Yeah, buying marijuana illegaly might finance the cartels. It doesn't necessarily. For what it's worth, I know damn well that none of the marijuana I had in the USA (I don't smoke in Germany) came from the cartels. It came from old-school hippies who grew it on their own land. And in that case, it was absolutely victimless. It didn't fund organized crime, it funded drum circles* and trips to west Africa.

But even ignoring that crucial flaw, what does this have to do with it being legal? Oh, illegal weed furthers a black market that might fund some people who are baaaaad. Yeah, no ****. You do realize this is part of why we want it legal, right? So that my options include "Walgreens" and not just "the guy getting his stock from the cartels who hangs around in the vacant lot behind the Walgreens"!

Do you honestly think the cartels want marijuana to be legal? If your choice is "illegally imported cartel weed" and "Phillip Morris brand Spliffs", most people won't even give the cartels a second look! And we're already seeing this - the amount of weed caught by the US Border Patrol and the Mexican Army has dropped significantly in the last few years, which strongly indicates that they're sending less over - that the market for them is shrinking, because people want the homegrown stuff. Far from me not caring about the lives of these people, this is one of the very strongest arguments to legalize marijuana. Because the fact is, black markets only exist when the product is extremely overtaxed or illegal. Legalization will drive the cartels out of the marijuana market. They simply cannot compete on an even playing field when they have to deal with the costs and risks of smuggling it in.

Oh, and congratulations on completely ignoring the thrust of my argument, focusing on one little point... And getting that one wrong!

*(Insert your own "Drum Circles cause harm" joke here.)

Apparently though my arguments have no merits, south American's lives have no meaning to a sociopath like you.

You know, maybe if you stopped making so many assumptions, you wouldn't be so consistently wrong. Why don't you make a version of my list? Show us where the pros and cons are on your end of the spectrum.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

I want to address the argument that says "Those who smoke marijuana as a teenager are much more likely to use other/harder illegal drugs." Here's the thing, while it may be true that over lets say 80% of people who do cocaine started on marijuana, if you were to flip that statement around, it wouldn't be true. There's no way that 80% of marijuana users use cocaine. Seriously, with that logic you can make ANYTHING look bad. For example (and the figures here are made up, but express a point nonetheless): 95% of prison inmates had taken showers one week prior to their crime. By this logic, we should outlaw showers! But you're probably saying, "well showers don't cause people to commit crimes, there's no actual proof!" And you would be right to say that. But that shows the fact that IF A "CORRELATION" IS NOT TRUE BOTH WAYS, IT IS NOT A CORRELATION, BUT RATHER A COINCIDENCE. To go onto this point, cigarettes and alcohol are the real gateway drugs because they are physically addictive and cause dependency. Marijuana (unless it's laced) is not a physically addictive drug. While you can get mentally addicted to the drug, you cannot grow a physical dependence on it. For reference though, you can get addicted to anything: you can get addicted to video games, eating cerial, watching porn, etc. Bottom line is I don't want to see the gateway drug argument ever pop into this thread again because (a) there's no real correlation to suggest this idea, and (b) there are other drugs which are much more dangerous health-wise, and cause dependency.

 

[Braydon]

I want to address the argument that says "Those who smoke marijuana as a teenager are much more likely to use other/harder illegal drugs." Here's the thing, while it may be true that over lets say 80% of people who do cocaine started on marijuana, if you were to flip that statement around, it wouldn't be true. There's no way that 80% of marijuana users use cocaine. Seriously, with that logic you can make ANYTHING look bad. For example (and the figures here are made up, but express a point nonetheless): 95% of prison inmates had taken showers one week prior to their crime. By this logic, we should outlaw showers! But you're probably saying, "well showers don't cause people to commit crimes, there's no actual proof!" And you would be right to say that. But that shows the fact that IF A "CORRELATION" IS NOT TRUE BOTH WAYS, IT IS NOT A CORRELATION, BUT RATHER A COINCIDENCE. To go onto this point, cigarettes and alcohol are the real gateway drugs because they are physically addictive and cause dependency. Marijuana (unless it's laced) is not a physically addictive drug. While you can get mentally addicted to the drug, you cannot grow a physical dependence on it. For reference though, you can get addicted to anything: you can get addicted to video games, eating cerial, watching porn, etc.

That's not how a correlation works... For both 80% of cocaine users to use marijuana, and 80% of marijuana users to use cocaine, their would have to be the same amount of cocaine users as marijuana users. In reality 80% of cocaine users is much less than 80% of marijuana users because cocaine is less common. What you have here isn't how correlations work its a really contrived backward way to prove two numbers are equal.

Bottom line is I don't want to see the gateway drug argument ever pop into this thread again because (a) there's no real correlation to suggest this idea, and (b) there are other drugs which are much more dangerous health-wise, and cause dependency.

Bottom line is I don't want to see your flawed arguments ever pop into this thread again. Learn what you're talking about or stop talking.

Oh, and also physical alcohol addiction only occurs in extreme cases where people were already addicted anyway.

Maybe you can translate his arguments into english, because I have no idea what he's talking about.

They are in english... Maybe not the clearest point but I don't think you're really trying to understand it.

Still I'll change it so you can't misunderstand;

"Well, weed contributes nothing productive towards society. The way I view why the plant is illegal is due to the fact the plant attracts uneducated, and unintelligent people, who don't fully understand what they are getting into, and establishes itself deeply in many individuals lives, and is addictive and mind altering, making it hard to quit, and so forth.

here's another theory why the plant is kept illegal. The plant damages the Immune System. Studies have shown that Marijuana effects eighteen particular entities inside the body's Immune System. Yes, well this could be why the plant is left behind bars
Here's a link: http://www.healthline.com/health/addiction/marijuana/effects-on-body

Hip hop which I'm strongly against encourages this sense of bs to commence, people like Snoop, Wiz and so forth. Keep in mind the plant was made illegal in 1937 which proves that Society was against the plant. I'm willing to put money on the line that you enjoy the plant because you listen to Hip hop or from your brother which of course learned it from hip hop.

Yes yes, in the old days they smoked the plant, however; society has never become this rampant and stupid in its use, as much as when Hip hop influenced the plants popularity on a higher level than even Woodstock."


Get it now?

And if you're allergic to one of agents used in the delivery of dronabinol, you're **** outta luck. Look, I'm sorry, are we really going to rehash this **** again? You don't know anything about medicine in general and pharmacology in particular (and genetic engineering, scientific publishing, bias, and quite a few other things to do with medicine and science, but that's another thread - one you abandoned after you realized you couldn't keep up).

And if you're allergic to Marijuana which is air born when smoked and it is legalized you are royally ****ed, if you're sensitive enough potentially killed.

And I'm sorry I don't remember when it was proved how little I new.

Then make them! Or link to them, or quote them. I honestly don't care. Add 'em to the list, and show me how it stacks up!

Costs of Marijuana Legalization:

• People become addicted and suffer as a result
  
• Increase of DUI cases
• Potentially dangerous airborne psychoactive drug
• Commercial use of psychoactive drugs for non medical purposes

Benefits of Marijuana Legalization:

• Everything in the "costs of marijuana prohibition" section goes away

Costs of Marijuana Prohibition:

• It costs money to enforce laws
• Budget player cadet can't do whatever the **** he wants and have it be legal

Benefits of Marijuana Prohibition:

• Everything in the "costs of marijuana legalization" section goes away... to an extent.

Fixed.

Personal freedom can only be used if you believe it trumps American's freedom to govern, it's not just freedom from governing...

s it worth sending hundreds of thousands of people to jail and spending billions of dollars to keep this illegal?

You commit a crime, you go to jail, laws don't send you there, you do.

Yeah, buying marijuana illegaly might finance the cartels. It doesn't necessarily. For what it's worth, I know damn well that none of the marijuana I had in the USA (I don't smoke in Germany) came from the cartels. It came from old-school hippies who grew it on their own land. And in that case, it was absolutely victimless. It didn't fund organized crime, it funded drum circles* and trips to west Africa.

But even ignoring that crucial flaw, what does this have to do with it being legal? Oh, illegal weed furthers a black market that might fund some people who are baaaaad. Yeah, no ****. You do realize this is part of why we want it legal, right? So that my options include "Walgreens" and not just "the guy getting his stock from the cartels who hangs around in the vacant lot behind the Walgreens"!

How is that an argument for legalization? The black market will include all illegal things that become available to criminals (pretty much everything but nukes and chemical weapons) it's not a reason to legalize weed it's a reason to prosecute people who support black market trade and a reason you shouldn't smoke weed.

If we legalize everything you can get on the black market we'll have to remove basically all laws and regulations, that's not the way to fight the black market.

Do you honestly think the cartels want marijuana to be legal?

What? When did I say that?

 

[Deleted member 269706]

That's not how a correlation works... For both 80% of cocaine users to use marijuana, and 80% of marijuana users to use cocaine, their would have to be the same amount of cocaine users as marijuana users. In reality 80% of cocaine users is much less than 80% of marijuana users because cocaine is less common. What you have here isn't how correlations work its a really contrived backward way to prove two numbers are equal.
Bottom line is I don't want to see your flawed arguments ever pop into this thread again. Learn what you're talking about or stop talking.

Oh, and also physical alcohol addiction only occurs in extreme cases where people were already addicted anyway.

They are in english... Maybe not the clearest point but I don't think you're really trying to understand it.

...

Hip hop which I'm strongly against encourages this sense of bs to commence, people like Snoop, Wiz and so forth. Keep in mind the plant was made illegal in 1937 which proves that Society was against the plant. I'm willing to put money on the line that you enjoy the plant because you listen to Hip hop or from your brother which of course learned it from hip hop.

Heh, Braydon, it was implied that we were taking a similar group of people into consideration when looking at the "correlation". I didn't think I should have to specifically spell that out. And also, you of all people telling me to get my facts right is pretty entertaining when you're the guy who writes off everything we say as lies or bull****, yet continues to argue with us.

Also wanted to throw in there, I hate hip-hop, rap, and everything that goes with it. Saying that it has an impact is a pretty great claim though.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Oh, and also physical alcohol addiction only occurs in extreme cases where people were already addicted anyway.

And the same isn't true about marijuana? Honestly I'm not sure if this is the case at all, but the implication that somehow marijuana is more addictive than alcohol doesn't hold up in the literature.

"Well, weed contributes nothing productive towards society. The way I view why the plant is illegal is due to the fact the plant attracts uneducated, and unintelligent people, who don't fully understand what they are getting into, and establishes itself deeply in many individuals lives, and is addictive and mind altering, making it hard to quit, and so forth.

here's another theory why the plant is kept illegal. The plant damages the Immune System. Studies have shown that Marijuana effects eighteen particular entities inside the body's Immune System. Yes, well this could be why the plant is left behind bars
Here's a link: http://www.healthline.com/health/addiction/marijuana/effects-on-body

Hip hop which I'm strongly against encourages this sense of bs to commence, people like Snoop, Wiz and so forth. Keep in mind the plant was made illegal in 1937 which proves that Society was against the plant. I'm willing to put money on the line that you enjoy the plant because you listen to Hip hop or from your brother which of course learned it from hip hop.

Yes yes, in the old days they smoked the plant, however; society has never become this rampant and stupid in its use, as much as when Hip hop influenced the plants popularity on a higher level than even Woodstock."


Get it now?

Yes, thank you. The arguments are still not particularly convincing, but at least it makes sense now.

And if you're allergic to Marijuana which is air born when smoked and it is legalized you are royally ****ed, if you're sensitive enough potentially killed.

First of all, I actually cited that there are other ingredients in drobinol that could act as allergens. The dangers of second-hand marijuana smoke are... I couldn't find anything indicating that it was more dangerous in any way than second-hand cigarette smoke. With that in mind, I have absolutely no problems applying similar common-sense regulation to second-hand pot smoke and second-hand cigarette smoke. In Bavaria, for example, you're not allowed to smoke inside public establishments such as bars and restaurants, and extending that to marijuana seems like straight-up common sense. As for allergies to Marijuana, I'd be interested in any evidence that the dose received second-hand is actually enough to trigger a reaction.

Costs of Marijuana Legalization:

• People become addicted and suffer as a result
  
• Increase of DUI cases
• Potentially dangerous airborne psychoactive drug
• Commercial use of psychoactive drugs for non medical purposes

Benefits of Marijuana Legalization:

• Everything in the "costs of marijuana prohibition" section goes away

Costs of Marijuana Prohibition:

• It costs money to enforce laws
• Budget player cadet can't do whatever the **** he wants and have it be legal

Benefits of Marijuana Prohibition:

• Everything in the "costs of marijuana legalization" section goes away... to an extent.

Fixed.

"It costs money to enforce laws". Are you serious? Yes, it costs an insane amount of money! So when making a law, it's relevant to examine whether the money we spend on said law is actually well-spent. For example, enforcing laws against murder: is the money well-spent? Well, yes, because murder is an act that is clearly harmful to individuals and society, and those who murder need to be kept away from society in order for society to be safe. But enforcing marijuana laws? Again, I feel the need to point out that a massive amount of our prison system is filled by people on possession charges. That's not okay.

Meanwhile, I love the hysteria in your list. "Airborne psychoactive drug". As said previously, and I'm really getting sick of rehashing this point, you'd need prolonged exposure to highly concentrated marijuana smoke in order to get any effects of THC from second-hand smoke. Anyone exposed to that will notice; if you walk by someone on the street who is smoking a joint, the likelihood of you feeling any effects from the second-hand THC is approximately zero.

The increase of DUI cases is a real phenomenon but vastly overstated by opponents of legalization; indeed, the streets seem to be, on average, pretty darn safe:

(source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...lities-in-colorado-are-at-near-historic-lows/ )

You list the commercial use of psychoactive drugs as though this was inherently negative. As if there's something inherently wrong with someone using psychoactive drugs. I'm not sure how you justify this; it doesn't effect anyone else and all potential effects on others are already listed.

Personal freedom can only be used if you believe it trumps American's freedom to govern, it's not just freedom from governing...

No, personal freedom is always an important and useful component when it comes to examining laws like this. Yes, the government will govern, but the freedom of the individual to act is not something we should ignore. I understand that you don't consider this concept worthwhile, but it's deeply ingrained in the philosophy surrounding a free society.

You commit a crime, you go to jail, laws don't send you there, you do.

Congratulations, you're still ignoring the problem. This argument is bland sophistry on your part, and I'm getting kind of sick of it. It doesn't matter if you send yourself to jail or if the laws do, the fact is that if the laws were different, we wouldn't incur these costs to the government budget or to society. You don't just get to ignore the heavy costs of something just because "that's how the law works". You have to factor it in. Are the massive expenditures for marijuana regulation (along with the massive amount of tax revenue states lose out on by not regulating and taxing it) and the huge human cost of jailing hundreds of thousands for something that shouldn't be illegal in the first place! Have we learned nothing from alcohol prohibitionism?

How is that an argument for legalization? The black market will include all illegal things that become available to criminals (pretty much everything but nukes and chemical weapons) it's not a reason to legalize weed it's a reason to prosecute people who support black market trade and a reason you shouldn't smoke weed.

I don't know how to make this any more clear to you. When marijuana is illegal, people buying marijuana support the cartels. When marijuana is legal, people buying marijuana don't. In fact, that was basically your whole argument against it being a victimless crime - that it supported the cartels. Well, guess what: that victim goes away if we legalize it. People are going to buy marijuana. Why not let the buy it from legal providers within the USA?

If we legalize everything you can get on the black market we'll have to remove basically all laws and regulations, that's not the way to fight the black market.

You're right! But in most cases, we have good reasons why things should be illegal! Why should guns be illegal to those with mental issues? Because we don't want another clocktower shooting. Why should heroin be illegal? Because it is incredibly addictive and destroys lives. Why should cyanide be tightly regulated? Because it's a phenomenally dangerous substance and very easy to murder someone with. Why should marijuana be illegal? Because it's psychoactive?

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

And I have no idea what this is even supposed to mean. Seriously, what does that mean? When you say "Weed is now a God to the people", what are you talking about? Are people worshipping weed or something? Why should this matter? People worship all kinds of things. I'm not sure what the problem is here, or why this has anything to do with legality.



Yes, and I'd appreciate a link to that. It's just good practice.



So wait, you believe the government's motivation was actually better than what is actually recorded in history? That they're lying to make themselves look worse? That's weird. And of course, my sources weren't government sources, but don't let that bother you.

So I'm going to write these sentences as slim as possible.

I do not believe pretty much any aspect that is related towards a governmental standard. Why? You be the judge on that.

When I mentioned "God" that's what I meant in general. I don't know how that can become translated unless you're simply wasting my time. But to end this situation; through a dictionary: God, a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity, so what does that mean? It simply states that a person or thing that has power over nature which includes us of course. People made shirts, people died for this plant, and they fought each other in order to grasp the plant therefore the plant is a "God" among humans, people can not leave without the plant, they always come back to the plant. There you go, I translated my sentences from Japanese to English. Thanks.

 

[Deleted member]

I have done hours of research on marijuana/pot/weed/ganja/spliff or whatever the hell you call it, and have never read on weed having negative effects on the body unless it was smoked in high amounts during infancy. I have a friend who "smokes weed everyday" (read that in Snoops voice for added effect) and they function fine if not better than other students at my school. I wont blab on about the endless amounts of health benefits to spare you the time but I must say, there's lots o' em.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I have done hours of research on marijuana/pot/weed/ganja/spliff or whatever the hell you call it, and have never read on weed having negative effects on the body unless it was smoked in high amounts during infancy. I have a friend who "smokes weed everyday" (read that in Snoops voice for added effect) and they function fine if not better than other students at my school. I wont blab on about the endless amounts of health benefits to spare you the time but I must say, there's lots o' em.

Try this video. If you don't care to read it, try the citations in the description instead. C0nc0rdance, as is his usual style, looks through the peer-reviewed research on the subject and offers a balanced, objective view on the subject. Marijuana is associated with schizophrenia, causes dependency, contains noteworthy carcinogens and does, in fact, increase the risk of lung cancer, and there are numerous other risks. Let's not mince words here; you are burning a plant and inhaling the smoke, including numerous noteworthy pharmacologically active ingredients. It would be absolutely astounding if this had no negative effects on the body.

I mean, let's be clear, I'm firmly pro-legalization, but people deserve to know that marijuana is not some harmless drug. It has known risk factors, and ignoring these risks is a bad idea. It's important to understand what you're putting in your body.

As for health benefits, I'd be interested in hearing it. You claim there's lots, can you back that up with decent sources?

 

[Deleted member]

Try this video. If you don't care to read it, try the citations in the description instead. C0nc0rdance, as is his usual style, looks through the peer-reviewed research on the subject and offers a balanced, objective view on the subject. Marijuana is associated with schizophrenia, causes dependency, contains noteworthy carcinogens and does, in fact, increase the risk of lung cancer, and there are numerous other risks. Let's not mince words here; you are burning a plant and inhaling the smoke, including numerous noteworthy pharmacologically active ingredients. It would be absolutely astounding if this had no negative effects on the body.

I mean, let's be clear, I'm firmly pro-legalization, but people deserve to know that marijuana is not some harmless drug. It has known risk factors, and ignoring these risks is a bad idea. It's important to understand what you're putting in your body.

As for health benefits, I'd be interested in hearing it. You claim there's lots, can you back that up with decent sources?

Link to article you were asking for ---> http://www.businessinsider.com/health-benefits-of-medical-marijuana-2012-11?op=1&IR=T

(I only skimmed through it so it might be total BS)

I agree with you that there are negative effects to it and I as well are also pro-legalization but (only just realizing this now) I am extremely biased towards this topic for multiple personal reasons and wont be able to provide professional answers so I will leave this thread alone

P.S. Thanks for showing me I'm biased (this is genual gratification, not sarcasm)

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Link to article you were asking for ---> http://www.businessinsider.com/health-benefits-of-medical-marijuana-2012-11?op=1&IR=T

(I only skimmed through it so it might be total BS)

I agree with you that there are negative effects to it and I as well are also pro-legalization but (only just realizing this now) I am extremely biased towards this topic for multiple personal reasons and wont be able to provide professional answers so I will leave this thread alone

P.S. Thanks for showing me I'm biased (this is genual gratification, not sarcasm)

It's got a fair amount of BS. For example, the claim that marijuana helps with glaucoma is technically true, but the effects don't last as long as the high. This is a large part of why the Glaucoma Research Foundation does not recommend it - it simply is not an effective treatment unless you smoke on a near-constant basis. The claims about seizures are overstated somewhat - animal models are not human trials, and I couldn't find any information on how long the relief lasted. Could be we run into the same problem as with glaucoma. The claims about cancer are just straight-up bad science reporting. Cannabidiol kills cancer cells in a petri dish. You know what else does? A gun. All this phase of tests says is "here is a lead we should investigate". No more, no less. There's a lot more listed; I'd take it all with a grain of salt, personally. Check their sources and see if it checks out. Remember that the gold standard is large-scale human trials, and that you can only say so much from animal trials, and keep potential confounding variables in mind - things like duration of effect vs. side-effects (it doesn't matter how good of an anti-glaucoma medication it is if you can't work while under its influence).

There's nothing wrong with being pro-legalization, but there is something wrong with denying the health effects of a substance. It's always better to make informed, rational decisions. Personally, I think the risks of marijuana, while not negligible, are worth the positive benefits I get from smoking it. I reckon for some, it's different, and I don't begrudge them that.

 

[mel0]

Because it can induce cancer under frequent use, causes air pollution, smells like ****, and makes idiots and delinquents out of people. The only reason it's cousin, Tobacco, is legal is because the business is filthy rich, even more so than the government who wishes to outlaw it.

 

[Lysergic]

Because it can induce cancer under frequent use, causes air pollution, smells like ****, and makes idiots and delinquents out of people. The only reason it's cousin, Tobacco, is legal is because the business is filthy rich, even more so than the government who wishes to outlaw it.

Finally someone that has common sense.

 

[mel0]

Finally someone that has common sense.

Hyes!
...
wait
...
Lysergic
...
holding a mushroom
...
I find your sarcasm unamusing

 

[Trynone]

Sorry for not replying to your post directly. I just have a heavy heart about this as it relates to Smash... My family has a past littered with addictions and knowing that I'm easily addicted, I have to distance myself from addictions. Marijuana and alcohol are super frequent in just about every Smash gathering/tourney in my area, so it makes it hard for me to be a part of the community. Plus, I can't take my nephew to these events anymore. I love Smash, and I want it to grow big in our area and be recognized publicly. However, these tournaments are becoming more underground, more secretive, and adults only.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Because it can induce cancer under frequent use, causes air pollution, smells like ****, and makes idiots and delinquents out of people. The only reason it's cousin, Tobacco, is legal is because the business is filthy rich, even more so than the government who wishes to outlaw it.

So here's a question. Are removing those detriments actually worth the cost of prohibition? I recommend going back to read more of the thread, as this topic has come up again and again. Yes, there are clear detriments to marijuana use. I don't think any here disputes that at this point. It is mildly addicting, mildly carcinogenic, has some nasty effects on the brain with long-term heavy use, and impairs your ability to drive and operate similar machinery. There are consequences to marijuana being used.

However.

There are significant consequences to marijuana prohibition as well. The American prison system is absolutely swamped with people who are stuck in jail on simple possession charges - an action which doesn't necessarily harm anyone but those involved. These people cost billions of dollars a year to house, feed, and clothe, and locking up non-violent offenders with violent offenders encourages recidivism and more violent behavior, never mind the personal cost of destroying people's lives.

It also encourages gang activity. Much of the weed bought in the US is smuggled in from Mexico. The cartels were brought up earlier, but the fact is that in Colorado, Washington, and other states where dope is legal, they've taken a beating, at least in that market, because legal home-grown weed is simply cheaper and less dangerous. This is a good thing, because it means less money going to dangerous, violent criminal organizations and more going towards things like building schools.

And then there's the way that many people are already using weed. I guarantee you, almost any teenager living the US who isn't totally sheltered knows a guy who knows a guy. At my school back in Maine, it was basically an open secret who had the goods. The number of people who smoke weed is pretty high, and I find it pretty hard to believe that the number of regular users would increase dramatically if it was legalized.

And of course, none of this should be new to us. Remember alcohol prohibition? We had all the same problems. People would just drink illegally, the money would go to the mobs, and a whole bunch of people got thrown in jail for no good reason.

I think the consequences of marijuana legalization pale in comparison to the consequences of marijuana prohibition.

 

[Braydon]

Give up.

I might be paraphrasing a little with that quote but that is what you want right?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I might be paraphrasing a little with that quote but that is what you want right?

Dude, this is a debate. I'd like to see people who disagree with me either teach me something, or learn something. Obviously, I'm going to present my views and explain why I think those I disagree with are lacking. If @ mel0 changes his mind, all the better; if he comes up with a good counterargument, and I learn something, that's great too. I don't know how you got "give up" from that.

 

[Braydon]

Dude, this is a debate. I'd like to see people who disagree with me either teach me something, or learn something. Obviously, I'm going to present my views and explain why I think those I disagree with are lacking. If @ mel0 changes his mind, all the better; if he comes up with a good counterargument, and I learn something, that's great too. I don't know how you got "give up" from that.

I mean give up on enforcing our laws, not give up on the debate. Most of you're argument pretty much just seems to be that we should give up instead of trying to find another solution to current problems caused by prohibition.

Personally I'd focus on stopping the cartels if it was up to me...

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I mean give up on enforcing our laws, not give up on the debate. Most of you're argument pretty much just seems to be that we should give up instead of trying to find another solution to current problems caused by prohibition.

My argument is that if enforcing a law causes more damage than simply allowing what the law prohibits, then the law should be abandoned. Furthermore, I would argue that the hypothetical damage that would be caused by marijuana legalization is far outweighed by the damage that marijuana prohibition causes. Whether we should find an alternative solution or not... Personally, I don't think we should, because I don't think that a drug with such minor effects, a drug which effects the user and really nobody else, should be illegal to begin with. There's simply no good reason for it to be such.

Personally I'd focus on stopping the cartels if it was up to me...

And legalizing marijuana would be one step towards doing this.

 

[Braydon]

My argument is that if enforcing a law causes more damage than simply allowing what the law prohibits, then the law should be abandoned. Furthermore, I would argue that the hypothetical damage that would be caused by marijuana legalization is far outweighed by the damage that marijuana prohibition causes. Whether we should find an alternative solution or not... Personally, I don't think we should, because I don't think that a drug with such minor effects, a drug which effects the user and really nobody else, should be illegal to begin with. There's simply no good reason for it to be such.

Yes, why would we consider the alternative of trying to simply enforce our laws, god forbid our police were productive or our judicial process worked.

And legalizing marijuana would be one step towards doing this.

... Ya no... That's a great way to get them to switch to selling something worse. The proper method to stop them is with bullets.

 

[mel0]

Damn, I don't even really give a **** anymore. I don't want to get dragged into @ Budget Player Cadet_ 's little game, he's taking this way too seriously.

 

[Sucumbio]

Damn, I don't even really give a **** anymore. I don't want to get dragged into @ Budget Player Cadet_ 's little game, he's taking this way too seriously.

Not really. His post is indicative of what we expect in the DH. That's where a lot of people get confused. And trust me, things are way more lax than they used to be. When I first joined it was like writing a research paper (even had footnotes once lol)

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Yeah, @ mel0 if you're not interested in debate, don't try to start one.

Yes, why would we consider the alternative of trying to simply enforce our laws, god forbid our police were productive or our judicial process worked.

Well then let's get into that, once you get unbanned. What would work to discourage marijuana use that would actually be worthwhile and not worse than what it's trying to prevent?

 

[mel0]

Naw I wasn't trying to debate I was just saying what I felt like saying. Not everyone is willing to elaborately argue over things like this.

 

[Sucumbio]

Naw I wasn't trying to debate I was just saying what I felt like saying. Not everyone is willing to elaborately argue over things like this.

Very true, just not in the Debate Hall lol otherwise we'd call it the Opinion Hall.

 

[mel0]

Very true, just not in the Debate Hall lol otherwise we'd call it the Opinion Hall.

So no opinions allowed? Damn, this board should just be renamed the Salty Suite. If I had the rights to, I would make this board Smash related debates only.

 

[Sucumbio]

Well that's why they made this place, as a means to get away from smash debate. You are free to post a new thread in the pool room though as it's far more laid back, and perfect for casual posting.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Well that's why they made this place, as a means to get away from smash debate. You are free to post a new thread in the pool room though as it's far more laid back, and perfect for casual posting.

Please don't ostracize future potential members that I like. You can harass all the other ones.

 

[Sucumbio]

See kids? Spam begets spam.

Hey, at least he got away without an infraction (and so have you).

Besides! You could do us some good, as you can tell the DH is languishing in recent months. Help us out! PLEASE.

 

[mel0]

Whatever, I came to simply make my point, I wasn't inviting anyone to argue about it with me. I think it's pretty silly and kind of ironic that if I'm not willing to furiously debate in a series of long ass posts with someone, I'm considered a spammer. Anyway, @ Sucumbio , have fun with your power, because I'm done with this thread.

 

[Sucumbio]

Not to belittle your point, but that's precisely what spam is considered here, lol. You would know this if you'd read the forum rules, the one that says "please read before posting." It's all good, though, if you should change your mind, your opinion isn't invalid, it's just worthless - in here- if you're not prepared to defend it.

 

[Braydon]

Well then let's get into that, once you get unbanned. What would work to discourage marijuana use that would actually be worthwhile and not worse than what it's trying to prevent?

Mainly we need to crack down on growers/smugglers/dealers, rather than individual users. We also clearly need to work more on the whole education thing as is obvious from this thread, look at how many people are so ignorant they believe weed won't cause lung cancer. I don't have a fully comprehensive plan, but we need to work on our police force, police officers should be subjected to much greater scrutiny and we should require higher productivity.

I also honestly don't see why we can't use military personnel to stop the cartel, I really don't see the sense in having so many soldiers in reserve when we could have them actively help protect America.

Not to belittle your point, but that's precisely what spam is considered here, lol. You would know this if you'd read the forum rules, the one that says "please read before posting." It's all good, though, if you should change your mind, your opinion isn't invalid, it's just worthless - in here- if you're not prepared to defend it.

He posted everything he had to say on the topic, I don't see why he has to say anything else. Going further is really pretty pointless, a lot of the people here are simply biased in favor of legalization because they want to "smoke weed everyday." Seeing as the evaluation of whether or not weed should be legal ends up coming down to an individuals judgement of what should and shouldn't be legal they can always say your argument is "not good enough" as a response...

 

[Izanagi97]

Benefits of Cannabis

Hemp
Good Food
Storage
Protein
Storage
Fiber
Strong building material
Bio-plastic
Paper
Jewelry
Cords
Animal Bedding
Weed Control
Purifier
Biodiesel
Cultivation
Safe for the Environment


Drug
Safest on the drug list
Gateway Drug theory is a myth
The happy plant
Makes one more creative
Lot of great people are/were pot smokers (Bill Gates, Micheal Phelps, Seth Macfarlane


Medical use and things it cures
Nausea
Vomiting
Pain
HIV AIDS
Neurological Problems
Cancer
Dementia
Diabetes
Epilepsy
Glaucoma
Tourette
Alzheimer's
Crohn's Disease
Ear infections


People and their Reasons for being illegal
Sheeple: No research
Alcohol: Can't get money
Tobacco: Lose profits
Prisons: Lose money from caging stoners instead of actual criminals (Murderers, Rapists, Pedobear, Robbers)
Law Enforcement: They'd be forced to tackle actually dangerous criminals
Pharmacies: They get rich prescribing crap that doesn't work and curing these diseases will kill profits
Republicans: They can't get you to hate minorities
Politicians: Spineless idiots
Religious people: Think it is a sin despite the fact that the happy plant is in the Bible
Morallizers: Sadistic thrill of jailing people below them
Some parents: Fear for children and think pot will kill them (0 people died from it) and they believe propaganda


Conclusion: This herb is only bad if you abuse it and you only get addicted when you have an addictive personality. It's the holy grail of medicine. The only reason people want it to stay illegal is because they are sheep who believe propaganda and myths like all stupid people or they are corporations and lobbies who only care about lining their own pockets.

 

[proxibomb]

From what I've heard, aside from the some basic stereotypes for the drug, it's extremely destructive if you have a mental addiction for it. I wouldn't really know how to explain it, but I would assume people will put aside important activities (social activities, jobs) to just smoke pot all day.

 

[Bee18]

From what I've heard, aside from the some basic stereotypes for the drug, it's extremely destructive if you have a mental addiction for it. I wouldn't really know how to explain it, but I would assume people will put aside important activities (social activities, jobs) to just smoke pot all day.

yeah, this makes sense. i was 'addicted' to a particular anti-depressant for a while but not because the drug itself is addictive, but because my i had been taking it for so long that i literally believed that i needed it and that it was keeping me alive. having an addictive personality doesn't help either.

like anything, as long as the drug itself isn't inherently destructive, it's fine as long as it isn't abused. think alcohol or coffee.