Why is PT universally considered to be terrible?

[DoubleAced]

In most custom tier lists I've seen and in other discussions and such, Pokemon Trainer always seems to be at the bottom of the list. The only thing I see that could possibly drop him down is the fatigue issue, but that's nothing that's match deciding. Why does everyone think he's so bad?

 

[Trip.]

Because he hasnt done well in tournies.

 

[Elliot Gale]

Because he hasnt done well in tournies.

This is one reason.

There's more to it, though. Squirtle is, for the most part, incompetent at handling anything short of space animals and Wario (probably Falcon too). That's a real drag to the team.

Ivysaur has the tether, which like or not drags the character down further.

Charizard is good but not great, the fact that the other two need to be in at some point damages his effectiveness.

 

[DoubleAced]

This is one reason.

There's more to it, though. Squirtle is, for the most part, incompetent at handling anything short of space animals and Wario (probably Falcon too). That's a real drag to the team.

Ivysaur has the tether, which like or not drags the character down further.

Charizard is good but not great, the fact that the other two need to be in at some point damages his effectiveness.

I understand this, but it's quite easy to avoid bad match ups such as Squirtle vs Space Animals with down B.

 

[Trip.]

I understand this, but it's quite easy to avoid bad match ups such as Squirtle vs Space Animals with down B.

Which = Free damage.

Free damage = bad.

 

[DoubleAced]

Which = Free damage.

Free damage = bad.

Not necessarily. If you get a good blow on them you can change.

 

[Retro Gaming]

And that requires, as eGale said, for the other two to have to be in at some point.

 

[Elliot Gale]

You also totally misread what I said. Squirtle's best match-ups are space animals and other characters with limited range.

 

[Charizard92]

For the most part, PT is very complicated and has a system that turns off all but the fans of his Pokemon or those who see potential in PT. Squirtle is pathetic in general, Ivysaur has a rather pathetic recovery, and Charizard is the only non-pathetic part. Alone, it would not be surprising that Charizard would be mid-high tier while Squirtle will be low and Ivysaur will just edge him out. The fact that they are together in a manner that forces you to use them all drags all three down. Personally, I prefer that PT is mid tier, but with lack of confidence from the rest of the Boards, PT is ranked low.

 

[Nitrix]

The pokemon get tired, so you eventually have to switch. The majority of people don't like switching to Squirtle or Ivysaur for reasons already stated. Thus, PT is bad.

 

[Bomber7]

*sigh* Ok, how to start this. PT belongs in mid tier. Even us who main PT can see he has no place among the high or god tier otherwise we'd be shot down and humiliaed beyond belief. Also the deal with this fatigue, well if people would realize the concept of PT's basic fighting style which is TEAM WORK then the switching out wouldn't be a problem not to mention, use a little common sense if you have that much of a problem with switching out either go commit suicide to switch or knock your opponent off the stage and switch out like I do. PT is a little bit different than Ice Climbers EGale could back me up on the whole team work factor. Ice Climbers requires a style of teamwork. EGale I need you to comfirm this due to my ignorance but, do you hear people saying how stupid or useless Ice Climbers is because if you lose one of the siblings, unless you are highly skilled, the other is utterly *****ed over? If this sounds like flame, it's not, I'm just getting a point across because Pokemon Trainer is basically the butt of all "sucky character" jokes. Otherwise, heck still play as PT. As a fellow PT user please dont get intemidated(forgive if mispelled) and then drop PT. Besides, tiers are really don't mean a thing other than tourny stats, and what you should watch out for. Tiers do not a will not run the way we play or who we play as. Any more complaints or comments?

 

[Greenstreet]

moral of the story. if u want pt to b a high tier, master him and win every tourney in the world.


intimidated*

 

[Elliot Gale]

Oh god SoPo is worse that Falcon lol. ICs are utterly useless when they're split. Even together, they're only average.

But PT's problem is the inverse: PT sucks BECAUSE the pokemon are together, and they're all mid to bottom tier material seperately as is. =(

 

[Bomber7]

Though even you have to admit EGale, if you can get the team work style of fighting down PT is a formidable opponent.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

Against characters like Marth and ROB, he sure won't be a formidable opponent.

But yeah, everyone pretty much covered why PT is considered low tier, but I've got something else to add.

You've got to be careful of how much you attack, and make sure your attacks are accurate if you don't want fatigue to screw you over. While you may want to be fatigued in regards to Squirtle, or it isn't that bad for Charizard, it's still another add on to the pain we have.

But my biggest problem with PT is Pokemon Change. I want to love it, but I hate it. Compared to Zelda and Samus, PT got jipped. Zelda and Sheik can transform in the air. Samus can taunt and it may take a while, but she gets items with good damage and knockback because of it. PT gets...a third character. Being at the mercy of the Wii's loading times really sucks too. If they just loaded all of the characters before the match like they did in Melee I probably wouldn't mind it as much, but trying to figure out the speed of how fast Pokemon Change is in the heat of battle with no extra benefit over the other two transformation characters just sucks.

 

[Elliot Gale]

More or less, the concept of PT is great, but the execution was wrong. If they were all undoubtedly mid area seprately, then the versatility might actually matter a lot more and push them higher.

Ivysaur needed leaf storm rather than a lone razor leaf. Charge the leaves like Sheik charges needles or something.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Fatigue really didn't need to be a timer, either. Last time I checked, no one really gets tired for just sitting around. I'm fine with an "every attack that connects" lowers fatigue approach, but it's ridiculous that you have a maximum of two minutes before you get "tired," even if all you do is let Squirtle do his little dance.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

A Charizard having the same amount of stamina as a Squirtle is hilarious. Pokemon Trainer is a really bad trainer. XD

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

@Yuki, is it just a disc reading problem as to why the time the change takes varies?

Also, am I the only person in this thread who can function with a fatigued pokemon? Squirtle is much more competent when fatigued. His grabs chain together better, he can combo better and he can still gimp just as well.

Charizard can also CG better and can chain together his grab releases while fatigued.

 

[Elliot Gale]

No, Squirtle doesn't combo any better because he doesn't combo at all either way due to the lack of hitstun. His gimp game goes down the toilet since Dair sends them nowhere.

Charizard still isn't CGing past 30, and the grab release mechanics remain the same. =\

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

You gimp with Squirt's dair?

 

[Elliot Gale]

Yeah, it has the knockback. It's not as if Squirtle is capable of chasing with Fairs like Jigglypuff can. He only has one double jump and a meh recovery.

 

[Judge Judy]

PT isn't bad it's just that with fatigue and a limited options with his pokemon change he has some major character flaws. The could at least of allowed you to choose who comes out first but even that they made random. I think at the hightest level of play he could be mid mid. And yah, he's unfortunantly below Mario...

 

[Natch]

Um, they DO allow you to choose who comes out first.

Hover the cursor over one of the pokemon(same place you choose your name and CPU Level, etc), and select it. The character name "Pokemon Trainer" will change to "Squirtle", "Ivysaur", or "Charizard" depending on which pokemon the cursor was over. Not only that, but you'll hear that announcer dude who tells you what character you just chose say their name.

 

[Judge Judy]

Oh yah, XD

****, I just lost all my creditibility in one fowl swoop lol. Good Luck, I obviously can't help you.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

it's actually fell swoop judy...

 

[Onxy]

Teh, you think the IC's are bad with seperate? Imagine Olimar with no Pikmin, and the enemy chasing you everywhere. Lol.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Olimar can function without pikmin... just not very well. Try PT without any pokemon.

 

[Onxy]

Olimar can function without pikmin... just not very well. Try PT without any pokemon.

It can't happen, so I can't try it, lol. Popo (or Nana) can function without the other one, it's just hard.

 

[infernovia]

If the poke actually did decent damage with their moves (Ivysaur's bair) and actually sent anyone anywhere (Charizard's fair), PT would be mid tier with no question. Squirtle really wants a spike... or a usable side b and neutral b.

 

[Bomber7]

LOL PT w/o pokemon. I saw a comic with Squirt vs DK. DK picked up Squirtle and placed him asside and patted him o nthe head and then went after PT and then threw him off the stage ending the match instantly. Also how can you Tim be a Smash Debator and only have 470 posts and Onxy still be a Smash Journyman such as my self but with 493?

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

If the poke actually did decent damage with their moves (Ivysaur's bair) and actually sent anyone anywhere (Charizard's fair), PT would be mid tier with no question. Squirtle really wants a spike... or a usable side b and neutral b.

Wtf are you talking about? Chars fair is amazing and I always use Squirtle's water gun.

If you hate pokemanz, go home!

@Bomber: I was invited to the Debate Hall so I can post in the Debate Hall.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Fatigue is not that big deal, you can also play with it pretty well, so it even makes the pokemon more versatile, alos, dont think your pokemon is fatigued just because it shows fatigue signs, remember that, acording to the Dojo, if your pokemon starts doing that you still have 30% of stamina left, so you can trick your oponent and hit it with a good blow , then switch. Alos, squirtle does gimp well when fatiged, his Fair still kills at the side of the screen and connects itself a lot, and i have suicided very few times doing it, also, water gun can gimp it doesnt matter if fatigued or not, also, a fatigued bullet seed=win

 

[Onxy]

Fatigue is pointless...

 

[Yukiwarashi]

@Yuki, is it just a disc reading problem as to why the time the change takes varies?

Also, am I the only person in this thread who can function with a fatigued pokemon? Squirtle is much more competent when fatigued. His grabs chain together better, he can combo better and he can still gimp just as well.

Charizard can also CG better and can chain together his grab releases while fatigued.

I think it's a disc reading problem. I have a grudge against it.

In the first tournament I participated in, I was screwed up by it. I was facing a Toon Link and found the time to switch to Ivysaur. But when I switched, he didn't come out. Both my opponent and I looked at each other in confusion. Toon Link charged up an up smash, but Ivysaur didn't come out. He did it again and Ivysaur got hit...and killed. =_=;

So yeah....stupid Wii screwed me over big time.

 

[Roller]

I don't think PT is bad... Not after I saw Yuuki play. =)

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I heard a lot of people say that PT would be mid-tier if he wasn't forced to switch pokemon all the time (both because of stock-loss and for the sake of hitting with a kill move).

 

[infernovia]

Wtf are you talking about? Chars fair is amazing and I always use Squirtle's water gun.

If you hate pokemanz, go home!

@Bomber: I was invited to the Debate Hall so I can post in the Debate Hall.

Ok, imagine if Bair did 13% damage instead of 8% (making it comparable to GW's turtle) and Charizard's huge knockback extended to the tip of his flames (or the tip of the flames has a knockback/hitstun). Do you see what I am saying now?

Edit: I am not saying they are bad moves, but changes like that could easily push PT to mid tier.

 

[Bomber7]

How about this guys, now that I thought of it. Do you think the 3 pokemon would gain a little more respect if they had those special moves that they have in Fire Red and Leaf Green that in a pinch their attack power is raised? All I know is Overgrowth for Ivy ^^' I forgot the others. It would be just like Lucario but in a counter fatgue sense and get people off our backs about them getting tired which by the way if you ask me, doesnt bother me one bit that they get tired.

 

[Elliot Gale]

God, Torrent, Overgrow, and Blaze would be *****in, but then that would make Lucario less special. =(