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Why I Hate Dark Pit (Other Clone Suggestions)

Dark Pit or Naw?


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Magikarpow

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I don't care if he's a clone character. He's still from a way over represented series.
I don't mind clones, like Dr. Mario or Lucina.

But why couldn't we get a different clone character??!??

Dark Samus, Shadow the Hedgehog, Paper Mario, Dixie Kong, Black Shadow, Ms. Pacman, Louie, Zero, Pockle, Funky Kong, Daisy...

Anyone else agree?? Did anyone even want Dark Pit...
 
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Blade Knight

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This isn't the best place to have this thread made, but given a character who could be represented decently well and done in the same short amount of Dev Time, I'd have taken Funky Kong as a DK clone over Dark Pit personally.
 

Ricochet J

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I would have preferred Roy returning over Lucina. As far as Dark Pit goes... You have to understand he's only a character because he didn't increase development time. Someone like Chunky Kong or Black Shadow would have required a brand new model.
 

Flaxr XIII

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Shadow a clone of Sonic? Excuuuuse me? Shadow's walking animation alone is totally different from Sonic. You know how much time that would have taken to program compared to Dark Pit?
The only one you listed as being deemed clone worthy would be Ms. Pacman, Louie, and Funky Kong. Zero is nothing like Megaman, Dark Samus is nothing like Samus, Paper Mario is nothing like Mario, and so on. Sure, the others could be considered the Falcon's Ganon but it's still way too much work for the little time they had.
 
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SmashWolf

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Ugh, great. Another ignorant person thinking Dark Pit could've been replaced by anyone at all, with no idea how development works whatsoever. You can have your opinion of not liking Dark Pit in the game, that's fine. But don't think for a single second he could've been replaced by anything at all. Let me give you a bit of a detailed explanation why your suggestions are nothing more than a showing of ignorance, since you're not the first to do so.

1: Dark Pit is an actual recolor by design. This fact alone deters alot of suggestions you could come up with.
2: The voice actor for Dark Pit is also conveniently Pit's. It was very easy to set up without costing any big money.
3: He is LITERALLY a clone, making him even easier to copy over Pit whilst keeping him accurate.
4: Dark Pit is Sakurai's work. This means he already has knowledge of the character, he already has the rights to use the character, and he already has the materials available to MAKE the character. There are no hassles involved at all.
5: Dark Pit needed less manpower to make than even a SINGLE one of your precious 8 Koopalings. He took far less work than ONE Smash Run enemy. Even a single new item would've taken more effort. Don't get me started on all the technical babble. Anyone who's ever done visual designing, animated anything, or has written any type of code, will agree with me on this.

In short, quit complaining. I'm not saying that just because I disagree with your opinion, I'm saying that because you(and many others like you) don't know what you're talking about. Nothing you could "suggest" would've been a possible alternative to Dark Pit. But the ignorance of people like you spread to others like some kind of contagious mental disease. They'll act pretentious like a better "decision" could've been made, with the knowledge other ignorant people agree with their opinion. Yet this isn't a matter of opinion at all. It's a matter of cold hard facts. Dark Pit was the easiest "character" they could've added, period.

You're also deluding yourself if you think DP's presence didn't make hundreds of people happy. Once again, a matter of facts.
 

Blade Knight

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You're kinda deluding yourself if you think DP's presence didn't make MORE people unhappy though, which is also a matter of facts. Honestly, he probably took more work than all 7 Koopaling costumes put together considering all their voice clips are recycled and modeling takes next to no time and work at all, hense why trophies exist. Dark Pit meanwhile took programing and balancing his (admittedly minor) changes, a little bit of modeling work for the Staff, electroshock arm, orbitars, and alt colors.

Of the recommended characters from only his list that could be represented fairly and done in similar if not the same time, Louie (or another Pikmin Captain since Alph is already in the game), Daisy, Funky, and Black Shadow could all be fairly represented, but let's toss Black Shadow since we don't need another falcon clone. That leaves a second pikmin rep, admittedly another Mario Rep, or throwing the DKC series a bone in a game where it got next to no representation already. All of these characters have easily recyclable voice clips or no voice at all, meaning we don't need to bring in an additional VA, modeling is very simple and most of them already have models in the game as trophies or could be recolors, and all three would represent a more well recieved and popular series than Kid Icarus.

I'm not trying to sound angry or mean if this post comes across that way, you're just looking at this very one sidedly. Dark Pit was not the objective, end all be all 'easiest' choice they could have made, and he certainly isn't the one that would have made the most people happy.
 
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Ryu Myuutsu

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You're kinda deluding yourself if you think DP's presence didn't make MORE people unhappy though, which is also a matter of facts. Honestly, he probably took more work than all 7 Koopaling costumes put together considering all their voice clips are recycled and modeling takes next to no time and work at all, hense why trophies exist. Dark Pit meanwhile took programing and balancing his (admittedly minor) changes, a little bit of modeling work for the Staff, electroshock arm, orbitars, and alt colors.

Of the recommended characters from only his list that could be represented fairly and done in similar if not the same time, Louie (or another Pikmin Captain since Alph is already in the game), Daisy, Funky, and Black Shadow could all be fairly represented, but let's toss Black Shadow since we don't need another falcon clone. That leaves a second pikmin rep, admittedly another Mario Rep, or throwing the DKC series a bone in a game where it got next to no representation already. All of these characters have easily recyclable voice clips, meaning we don't need to bring in an additional VA, modeling is very simple and most of them already have models in the game as trophies, and all three would represent a more well recieved and popular series than Kid Icarus.

I'm not trying to sound angry or mean if this post comes across that way, you're just looking at this very one sidedly. Dark Pit was not the objective, end all be all 'easiest' choice they could have made, and he certainly isn't the one that would have made the most people happy.
However, you and the OP are making the mistake of assuming that Dark Pit got over a number of potential characters when that is not the way it works. You bring suggestions but Dark Pit's presence or lack off wouldn't have meant squat for whatever clone character you mention.
And the people who are "unhappy" about this are usually a small minority; this roster has a lot of variety to more than make up for a couple of clones. People will just go out of their way to ignore this and make it sound like an actual problem like when Robin and Lucina were announced, a lot of haters ranted about the fact that we got a clone while forgetting that Robin was a brand newcomer of his own. You can add 10 unique newcomers and one clone to a roster but that won't stop people from overlooking them and directing their anger against the lonely clone.
 

Blade Knight

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You're putting words in my mouth, really. I never said Dark Pit stole a spot or anything of the like. I realize he was a last minute addition much like Dr. Mario. My wording was that he was not the one choice that would make the most people happy.

Honestly I'm not complaining about clones at all, I never complained about Lucina and I fail to see how that's relevent to what we're talking about. Dark Pit simply was not a clone I, nor really most people were happy about. He pleases a small group of people, and great for them I'm glad they got something they liked, but I feel it was completely possible to have made more people happy with the same amount of effort.


Edit: Off topic, but nice Team Fortress Announcement in your signature, I really love that series of videos.
 
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Magikarpow

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1: Dark Pit is an actual recolor by design. This fact alone deters alot of suggestions you could come up with.
2: The voice actor for Dark Pit is also conveniently Pit's. It was very easy to set up without costing any big money.
3: He is LITERALLY a clone, making him even easier to copy over Pit whilst keeping him accurate.
4: Dark Pit is Sakurai's work. This means he already has knowledge of the character, he already has the rights to use the character, and he already has the materials available to MAKE the character. There are no hassles involved at all.
5: Dark Pit needed less manpower to make than even a SINGLE one of your precious 8 Koopalings. He took far less work than ONE Smash Run enemy. Even a single new item would've taken more effort. Don't get me started on all the technical babble. Anyone who's ever done visual designing, animated anything, or has written any type of code, will agree with me on this.

In short, quit complaining. I'm not saying that just because I disagree with your opinion, I'm saying that because you(and many others like you) don't know what you're talking about. Nothing you could "suggest" would've been a possible alternative to Dark Pit. But the ignorance of people like you spread to others like some kind of contagious mental disease. They'll act pretentious like a better "decision" could've been made, with the knowledge other ignorant people agree with their opinion. Yet this isn't a matter of opinion at all. It's a matter of cold hard facts. Dark Pit was the easiest "character" they could've added, period.

You're also deluding yourself if you think DP's presence didn't make hundreds of people happy. Once again, a matter of facts.
1. Many of these characters are the same, or have slight differences, like Marth-Lucina.
2. A lot of the characters I suggested are the same actor/or don't need an actor, like Dark Samus.
3. He has quite a few different attributes about him, most notably his Final Smash.
4. True enough. But I can't imagine it would be too hard to get rights for a character from a universe he already has in Smash.
5. That's debatable. His Final Smash only would probably take quite a while to create.

Anyways, that's my opinion...
 

Blade Knight

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Really his final smash wouldn't take much time at all. The programming's all in, it'd just be rigging/animating the motion and pose he does and modeling the staff. It's still a cloned move off of Zelda's FS so it'd take minimalistic time. He is completely correct in that regard, man.
 

LIQUID12A

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Making a thread about why you hate Dark Pit in the Dark Pit sub forum doesn't scream "good idea".

I'm no fan, but arguments like these lead nowhere. He's in, get over it.
 

Magikarpow

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Making a thread about why you hate Dark Pit in the Dark Pit sub forum doesn't scream "good idea".

I'm no fan, but arguments like these lead nowhere. He's in, get over it.
Ok, I may have over exaggerated when I said I "hate" him. He just seems kinda like a wasted spot. Even for a clone.
 

Knight Dude

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I get that you don't like him. Personally, I just don't find him all that interesting gameplay wise, so I ignore him. But it's perfectly fine to enjoy using this character. Usually, threads like this lead to pointless flaming and all that junk.

Having said that, yeah in a more biased light, I would have chosen a different clone. But I'm not that annoyed about it.
 

Magikarpow

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I get that you don't like him. Personally, I just don't find him all that interesting gameplay wise, so I ignore him. But it's perfectly fine to enjoy using this character. Usually, threads like this lead to pointless flaming and all that junk.

Having said that, yeah in a more biased light, I would have chosen a different clone. But I'm not that annoyed about it.
Wow Your username is really cool
 

shinhed-echi

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I would have preferred Dark Samus.

Her Assist trophy shares a LOT of animations with Samus, so that was half the battle won already.

That would have been my go to clone. Dark Pit is my least favorite clone as well. It used to be Lucina, but at least Lucina didn't start out as a recolor.

Anyway, now that we know DLC is coming, I don't really hate any character's presceence in this game.
 

Tepig2000

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I don't get people who complain about clones. More clones = more characters. And more characters is good. If you don't like him, just don't play as him. If he wasn't in, he wouldn't have been replaced by another character. Would you rather have the current roster or the current roster minus Dark Pit?
 

Judo777

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I don't get people who complain about clones. More clones = more characters. And more characters is good. If you don't like him, just don't play as him. If he wasn't in, he wouldn't have been replaced by another character. Would you rather have the current roster or the current roster minus Dark Pit?
Umm I would actually. I don't like that I have twice the chance of getting the same character when I pick random as every other character. And he is literally a clone. Like there are almost no differences at all (from what I hear all the non-arrow differences favor pit for the most part). They could have simply gave dark pit's arrows as another custom move.

Don't get me wrong I'm not mad or anything, but he was hand down the worst clone idea ever followed closely by Lucina.

I also for see Pit and DarkPit being right next to each other in the order i stated on every tier list that gets made for the whole games because they are like the same character. This is of course unless one gains no tournament representation because they are completely outclasses by the other.
 
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shinhed-echi

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I'm torn, but he should have been kept as a color swap, if he was going to be pretty much the exact same thing. I mean, even Melee handled clones better. Pichu, Y.Link, Doc, Falco, and Ganondorf were extremely, noticeable different from their counterparts.
Had Pit been a... I dunno, super slow+strong, or superfast+weak version of Pit at least, I think he'd get more respect around here.

But like I said, it's water under the bridge now for me. I mean, Sakurai worked so hard on this game already, I really can't complain if that was his last breath of a character.
And now that Mewtwo's coming, I can forgive these clones.
 
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Belgrim

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Did anyone even want Dark Pit...
I'm sure some people wanted Dark Pit but also hoped he'd have a different moveset. Having only one different special was kind of stupid on the devs part. Especially when their were so many other options for the devs to use for Dark Pit's basics.
 

Mettie7

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Honestly, if DP used his staff and not the Silver Bow like he has in his splash art, I would've liked him a little more (still next to last, but a little more regardless). But alas, Silver Bow I guess....... Stinks that his staff only in his FS.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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I'm sure some people wanted Dark Pit but also hoped he'd have a different moveset. Having only one different special was kind of stupid on the devs part. Especially when their were so many other options for the devs to use for Dark Pit's basics.
Perhaps, however he makes a lot of sense as a clone compared to others in the Smash series, in fact he is the only character that is a clone copy of someone in his home series. Dark Pit was also intended as an alt rather than his own character so nothing is really lost in promoting him to be playable instead.
 

SmashWolf

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You're kinda deluding yourself if you think DP's presence didn't make MORE people unhappy though, which is also a matter of facts.
Sadly, you may indeed be correct, if only because ignorant people assume the work that went into Dark Pit could've been put into "someone else". People are unhappy because of their own lack of understanding.

Honestly, he probably took more work than all 7 Koopaling costumes put together considering all their voice clips are recycled and modeling takes next to no time and work at all, hense why trophies exist. Dark Pit meanwhile took programing and balancing his (admittedly minor) changes, a little bit of modeling work for the Staff, electroshock arm, orbitars, and alt colors.
You're mistaken here. A professional-grade model that needs to be made from scratch, revised twice for 2 different systems, each with their own rigs, offsets, texture-allignments and scaling, not to mention testing sessions to see if every single one of them works in-game without glitching out(something hardly necessary, nor actually done for Dark Pit as seen in his Final Smash animation having clipping issues: http://www.ssbwiki.com/images/f/fe/SSB4_-_Dark_Pit_Screen-8.jpg).....takes a lot of effort. I'm not saying it takes "forever" for a team of professionals, but in comparison it's already more effort by far than Dark Pit took. As for his weapons, they were taken from Sakurai's own KI:U game, already in the correct 3DS format.

Alt colors take no time at all(minus a few exceptions like the Pikachu hats, Villager Alts, Wario, etc). Dark Pit was going to be an alternate costume regardless. More info on that on my reply to Magikarpow.

Of the recommended characters from only his list that could be represented fairly and done in similar if not the same time, Louie (or another Pikmin Captain since Alph is already in the game), Daisy, Funky, and Black Shadow could all be fairly represented, but let's toss Black Shadow since we don't need another falcon clone. That leaves a second pikmin rep, admittedly another Mario Rep, or throwing the DKC series a bone in a game where it got next to no representation already. All of these characters have easily recyclable voice clips or no voice at all, meaning we don't need to bring in an additional VA, modeling is very simple and most of them already have models in the game as trophies or could be recolors, and all three would represent a more well recieved and popular series than Kid Icarus.
I'm afraid you let bias cloud your judgement. To fairly represent Daisy, Funky, or Black Shadow in a professional setting, do you have any idea how much more effort is necessary? Even little things like Peach's heart effect getting replaced by flowers(And Final Smash art and tune. What would she even drop as food? And when did Daisy ever throw turnips?), and the....well....funkier style that Funky Kong moves has to be taken into consideration. And when you make huge changes, like Black Shadow obviously being much heavier and more powerfull than Falcon(huh, that sounds familiar), alot more testing and balancing comes into play. The whole point I'm trying to get across is that Dark Pit was the fastest and most convenient clone Sakurai could've made. This is hardly even argueable. But just to drive my point further home....

Yes, you can hack a halfassed low-poly unoptimized model into a finished game without ever fine-tuning it's hitboxes or animations. Yes, you can then recycle out-of-place voice clips from unrelated games like Mario Kart or F-Zero. But that's not how things go from a professional point of view. You must pay respect to the characters you've been proudly given permission to borrow.

(Even if you DID half-as.s your characters like that, it would VERY likely still take more time than Dark Pit)


1. Many of these characters are the same, or have slight differences, like Marth-Lucina.
2. A lot of the characters I suggested are the same actor/or don't need an actor, like Dark Samus.
3. He has quite a few different attributes about him, most notably his Final Smash.
4. True enough. But I can't imagine it would be too hard to get rights for a character from a universe he already has in Smash.
5. That's debatable. His Final Smash only would probably take quite a while to create.
1. Dark Pit has the least changes of any clone in the Smash Bros series by far, both visually and mechanically.
2: Dark Samus has no real voice actor(neither does Power-Suit Samus), but makes different sounds nonetheless, not to mention the countless different animations and properties necessary to do her justice. Think from a professional developer's perspective, one who wants to do every character justice.
3: You miss the point. I meant that his skeleton bonedata, sound effects(footsteps, slashes, etc), animations, etc would require no finetuning at all. He's all set and ready from the very start.
4: Paperwork and meetings.
5: Same attributes as Zelda and Sheik's with an edited blast that uses recycled effects. Even in his FS animation his hair clips through his face. If that's not the epidemy of a quick rushjob, I don't know WHAT you think it is. Most of his special move effects are all recycled from Ganondorf, Pit, or Pikachu. Hell, even the "custom" weapons like the Electroshock Arm and DP Staff are simply ripped from Kid Icarus Uprising, which was already conveniently in the proper format since it was made by Sakurai on the same platform. Convenient pretty much sums up Dark Pit.

Convenient pretty much sums up Dark Pit. I don't know what you think you're mad about. If anything, the only thing you COULD hate is that Dark Pit's not classified as alternate costume. And you're half-right. He could EASILY have been an alternate costume like the Koopalings, because that's just how easy it would've been.(Except he's a recolor in design, so it'd be even EASIER than the Koopalings) In fact, it's how things were planned from the start. But they decided to spend 2 hours of their time to change some mechanics, and now he's seperated as character. And then people like YOU come around and pretend like his "slot" could've been replaced by anything else.

Ah, right. Excuuuuse them for doing little extras, in what was probably done during some poor guy's lunch break. Are you honestly suprised about Sakurai's reaction to pretentious people like you? http://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-on-the-clone-characters-in-smash-bros-wii-u3ds/

There was no "choice". There is no "replacement". There will only be ignorance. If you wished so badly to see other characters in the game in favor of other things, go hate whatever actually hogged development time. Like that one mode you hate, that one from-scratch character while Ganondorf is still a clone, that one stage with way too many chaotic features, or that stupid feature that mirrors character animations to always face the screen.(Sakurai actually complained it took effort too...)
 

Frostwraith

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What's the point of making a character hate thread on said character's discussion board?

Anyway, I 100% agree with @ SmashWolf SmashWolf . I couldn't have explained things better.

And to say no one wanted him is just false. I wanted him in the game and I'm happy about his inclusion. Also, he is quite popular in Japan. He pops more often in Japanese Smash Bros. fan art, ranked highly in popularity polls for Nintendo characters even after a year since KIU was released, along with characters like Mario, Link, Pikachu, Yoshi, Marth, Ike and fellow Kid Icarus characters Pit, Palutena and Viridi. He even had an action figure released in Japan. If those are not indicators of popularity, I don't know what are.

Sure, he could have been more unique, but it was what could be done during the little time the development team had. It's what he is: a bonus addition, a simple extra to appeal to a certain section of fans, mainly those from Japan.

Some people won't like his addition, but that's their problem, not that of the actual fans of the character.
 
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guedes the brawler

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There is literally only ONE chocie that could've been made over Dark Pit: :4alph:.


and let's remember that Dark Pit is the second most important playable character in his Series and that Sakurai himself ignored Hades and Medusa before smash due to Ridleyitis, so he was, really, the best choice for a 3rd rep. Sure, his execution could've been better (i see no excuse for them sharing a down special)....

:4lucina: on the other hand is but the tritagonist of Fir eemblem Awakening and onc ecould say that all other lords in the SERIES are more important than her, that includes Chrom. She literally has no right to be in smash, and is the clone that needs to go; unlike:4darkpit:
 

SwoodGrommet

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These threads are ridiculous; all they'll do is cause tension in the community. Yes, I personally like Dark Pit, but I can't believe the game has been out for about a month now and people are still whinging about clones being in the game. He's in the game and he's staying.
Ugh, great. Another ignorant person thinking Dark Pit could've been replaced by anyone at all, with no idea how development works whatsoever. You can have your opinion of not liking Dark Pit in the game, that's fine. But don't think for a single second he could've been replaced by anything at all. Let me give you a bit of a detailed explanation why your suggestions are nothing more than a showing of ignorance, since you're not the first to do so.

1: Dark Pit is an actual recolor by design. This fact alone deters alot of suggestions you could come up with.
2: The voice actor for Dark Pit is also conveniently Pit's. It was very easy to set up without costing any big money.
3: He is LITERALLY a clone, making him even easier to copy over Pit whilst keeping him accurate.
4: Dark Pit is Sakurai's work. This means he already has knowledge of the character, he already has the rights to use the character, and he already has the materials available to MAKE the character. There are no hassles involved at all.
5: Dark Pit needed less manpower to make than even a SINGLE one of your precious 8 Koopalings. He took far less work than ONE Smash Run enemy. Even a single new item would've taken more effort. Don't get me started on all the technical babble. Anyone who's ever done visual designing, animated anything, or has written any type of code, will agree with me on this.

In short, quit complaining. I'm not saying that just because I disagree with your opinion, I'm saying that because you(and many others like you) don't know what you're talking about. Nothing you could "suggest" would've been a possible alternative to Dark Pit. But the ignorance of people like you spread to others like some kind of contagious mental disease. They'll act pretentious like a better "decision" could've been made, with the knowledge other ignorant people agree with their opinion. Yet this isn't a matter of opinion at all. It's a matter of cold hard facts. Dark Pit was the easiest "character" they could've added, period.

You're also deluding yourself if you think DP's presence didn't make hundreds of people happy. Once again, a matter of facts.
In fact, nevermind, that post is literally my thoughts summed up nicely. It irks me so much that people complain of Dark Pit being a recolour of Pit, when he is literally a clone of him.
 

Frostwraith

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There is literally only ONE chocie that could've been made over Dark Pit: :4alph:.


and let's remember that Dark Pit is the second most important playable character in his Series and that Sakurai himself ignored Hades and Medusa before smash due to Ridleyitis, so he was, really, the best choice for a 3rd rep. Sure, his execution could've been better (i see no excuse for them sharing a down special)....

:4lucina: on the other hand is but the tritagonist of Fir eemblem Awakening and onc ecould say that all other lords in the SERIES are more important than her, that includes Chrom. She literally has no right to be in smash, and is the clone that needs to go; unlike:4darkpit:
Except Alph isn't nearly as popular as Lucina and Dark Pit, especially if we're considering the Japanese fanbase.

Lucina was the most popular female character of FEA in Japan and one of the most popular FEA characters overall. Dark Pit ranked high in Japanese polls. Both are from 3DS games, a console with a much bigger install base than the Wii U, for which Pikmin 3 was released.

Obviously, of all the plausible alts (as in, not Koopalings or gender swaps), priority was given to the characters with more fans. They are the ones to appeal to more people.

Dr. Mario, Lucina, Dark Pit and Alph were the only viable alt-to-clone choices. The first three are more popular and easier to implement than Alph. Alph, with the more complex Pikmin mechanics, would have taken more work and time, something Sakurai explicitly stated he didn't want to spend on the clones, as they were meant to be extra additions and to avoid balancing issues.

These threads are ridiculous; all they'll do is cause tension in the community. Yes, I personally like Dark Pit, but I can't believe the game has been out for about a month now and people are still whinging about clones being in the game. He's in the game and he's staying.


In fact, nevermind, that post is literally my thoughts summed up nicely. It irks me so much that people complain of Dark Pit being a recolour of Pit, when he is literally a clone of him.
People will complain as long as they don't let things go and as long as they're incapable of moving on and accept reality as it is.

People can't get all they want in life. Truth may be harsh and cold, but it's the truth nonetheless.
 

Weldar

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I do think that from a purely mechanical perspective, Alph probably did deserve to be bumped up to a full character slightly more. In my fairly casual experience Olimar always felt like one of the more complex and intimidating to play. It would have been very easy to give Alph a Lucina style treatment, give him the exact same moves as Olimar but only one colour of Pikmin (either some new rock Pikmin that's like the average of all of them or just one of the existing basic ones like the reds or something), its a character who could have actually used a simpler beginner friendly version.
But yes character popularity was obviously a factor too, and I'm sure Dark Pit being one of the Sakurai's characters didn't hurt matters. At the end of the day even if I don't care for Dark Pit much I can't rationalize hating him, or any of the clones, they were all minimal work and its not lot them being still all just costumes would mean the game would have significantly more other content in it.
 

Carrill

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I don't automatically hate clone characters for being clone characters. I think Toon Link and Ganondorf are actually good examples of clones. Dark Pit on the other hand is probably the worst clone character to date. He has the same exact silhouette as Pit and many of the same animations. That's bad design and can lead to confusion whenever the two are both onscreen.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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I don't automatically hate clone characters for being clone characters. I think Toon Link and Ganondorf are actually good examples of clones. Dark Pit on the other hand is probably the worst clone character to date. He has the same exact silhouette as Pit and many of the same animations. That's bad design and can lead to confusion whenever the two are both onscreen.
Not really, because mirror matches have been a thing since the beginning. You can have a 4 or 8 player match with the same character, with the exact silhouette and animations. If people can play like that there should be no problem with the Pits which would be an identical situation, except that at least DP has a different weapon, arrow, and Side B.
 

Carrill

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Not really, because mirror matches have been a thing since the beginning. You can have a 4 or 8 player match with the same character, with the exact silhouette and animations. If people can play like that there should be no problem with the Pits which would be an identical situation, except that at least DP has a different weapon, arrow, and Side B.
It really varies from person to person. To be honest, the first time I saw a video featuring Dark Pit I thought it was regular Pit at first. For some people, it might be easy but for other people, it could be confusing. I think any developer should use all the tools in their power to make the differences between two characters like this visually clear.
 

Frostwraith

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Easiest way to tell Pit and Dark Pit apart: the wings.

While some costumes alter the wings' tint a bit, Pit's wings are always white or a light color, while Dark Pit's wings are black or a dark color.

Also, after comparing them side-by-side, I've noticed metal Pit and metal Dark Pit have different shades of grey as their metallic color.

Anyway, I agree with @ Ryu Myuutsu Ryu Myuutsu . Mirror matches have been a thing since ever and there hasn't been a real problem with those.
 
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loganhogan

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I used to hate Dark Pit but then it hit me.

1. He started off as a palette swap like the koopalings/alph so the transitioning to add him onto his own slot must have been incredibly easy.
2. He is his own character so he makes sense to me. Dark Pit in KIU is his own identity, I'm more puzzled by Dr. Mario being his own slot than Dark Pit if anything I say he's the biggest offender.
3. There will always be someone to "hate on" that's just natural, so regardless if Dark Pit was in the game or not people would just hate on someone else if he wasn't. Adding him made his fans happy so good for them.

If anything I wish Sakurai took liberties to add MORE alternate characters or even more semi-clones/clones.
 

Mazdamaxsti

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I, personally, wish that Dark Pit wasn't in the game, but instead the used the time (if minimal) on other characters. Dark Pit is cool, but I don't think worth it.
 

Khao

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I don't mind Dark Pit being in the game.

Really, I don't. I'm even actually looking forward to the possibility of him being Luigi-fied in a future game.

But at the same time, I can't help but to feel like he's a completely unnecesary addition in this game. And the same goes to the other two clones.

I'd understand the separation from Pit if it wasn't for Palutena, making a clone for a series that's already getting new characters is just kind of a waste. I know they require no real effort when compared to a unique character (Dark Pit especially) but it's just... The ones they chose barely add anything new to the game. We didn't really need another KI character when we have Palutena as the newcomer. We didn't need another FE character when we have Robin as the newcomer. And we especially didn't need another Mario character, with it getting two fully unique newcomers in this game. If the clones were instead given to series that didn't get a proper newcomer, I'm sure everyone would be far more understanding.

So, would the game be better off without the clones we got?

Of course not. (Though I personally would rather have Dr. Mario as a costume and am personally against his inclusion even if he wasn't a clone)

But I argue that their inclusion doesn't do anything to improve the game either, they could have been a great way to beef up the representation of older series that aren't getting new characters, but instead were given to series that already got unique newcomers.
 
D

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Making a thread about why you hate Dark Pit in the Dark Pit sub forum doesn't scream "good idea".

I'm no fan, but arguments like these lead nowhere. He's in, get over it.
finally a voice of reason.lol :-)
 

Sarki Soliloquy

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The argument of, "Clones aren't bad additions because they add more characters." is flawed. A character addition really feels justified if they provide a unique moveset or provides an alternative playstyle to an existing moveset a la Falco or Ganondorf. Adding redundant movesets only to buffer up character representation is lazy justification for many of these development-convenient extras. Sakurai likely doesn't care about how I think it should be, but if you aren't going to make these characters unique from their addition, just don't include them at all.

It's like Ryu to Ken to Akuma and the rest of the Shotokan lot. And out of all the characters occupying Clone Row, Lucina has the least Shotokan flavor. And if all 3 were originally meant to be alt costumes, Alph was the most respectable clone we got in this game.

With that being said, I see Dark Pit as "wasted potential" instead of "wasted character." I supported his inclusion, but I hope he gets Luigification or a straight-up overhaul in SSB5.

Sure, it'll take a bigger workload, but Dark Pit is the most convenient character to increase representation for additional weapons in KI:U. Everything he has now feels like stock custom moves for Pit.

His slight mechanical adjustments are fine as they are. Maybe exacerbate them a bit to give him a stronger, weightier feel from Pit. His Silver Bow is fine as his main weapon, even for his standard special. But given that his namesake staff is in his splash art, either make Dark Pit Staff his standard special, main weapon, or both. A lot of Pit's attack animations work fine with it, maybe with replacing his jab combo and some smashes and tilts to make use of the staff's range. Viridi Flight is fine. His additional weapons should reflect his theme of darkness. Change his side special to Pandora Claws. Change his down special to Doom Cannon. Give him a Cursed Palm for extra range and combo setups with his grab and throws. Dark Pit Staff being relegated to Final Smash when it's present in splash art means it's taken out of half of adjusted gameplay, like For Glory. Instead, why not take the facets of another long-lost character: Solid Snake. Have his Final Smash be similar to the Grenade Launcher, but have Dark Pit flying with a large reticle as he dishes out the super-powered attacks of each of his weapons during KI:U's air battles.

Too visually redundant? Give his robes and ringlets a tattered appearance, along with ruffling the feathers of his wings. Change his irises to red and give him an anime canine to accent his feral appearance (both of which are in the Palutena trailer).

There ya go, unique Dark Pit. I'd be on that **** posthaste. :4darkpit:
 
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