Why do people think Palutena was a waste of the chatter slot?

[Creativion]

Some people say she is a waste of a character slot but I'm not sure why. She original, so she's not a clone or anything, and it's a cool new representative from Kid Icarus.

For dark pit I can see. I think he's just a clone, and he's just literally almost the same guy as pit. Not that creative if you ask me.

But I think Palutena is new, cool, and original as a kid Icarus character, why do some people prefer her not being in the game?

 

[BluePikmin11]

The most common answer:
Because Kid Icarus is not in the same league as Metroid or Donkey Kong.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Because Plautena's custom moves took up some valuable development time, which could have been spent on preventing a vet from being cut. Though that's more so a point against the Miis.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Because are jealous of her heavenly bosoms they hate the idea of Kid Icarus getting more reps because of "muh relevance" and Sakurai's Uprising bias.

 

[Reila]

She is pretty damn boring and the way she is portrayed in Smash is cringe worthy, but I wouldn't say she is a wasted slot.

Mainly because there isn't such a thing a "character slot".

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The most common answer:
Because Kid Icarus is not in the same league as Metroid or Donkey Kong.

This pretty much IS the common answer. It really frustrates me.

I wish people would stop viewing it as "Series get REPS, and X character can't possibly get in unless series Y gets another character"

First off, I hate the usage of the word "REP" because while every character technically represents their respective franchise, simply calling them a "rep" reduces them to nothing but a franchise character, and nothing else in my opinion. When talking about any character, I prefer to acknowledge what makes them different from the rest of the roster. While Palutena is boring to some, I don't mind her moveset. She's mainly defensive and in the hands of a good player, she can do fairly well.

Secondly, I can almost guarantee characters aren't chosen with the mindset of "Well, I'd like to add X character, but I can't add X because we don't have Y". That is simply faulty. If a character has unique abilities, popularity and GOOD reasons to be in, then they can viably be put into the game.

While GOOD reasons are obviously debatable, the idea of "This character can't get in until this other character gets in" is not a good reason. No ifs, ands, or buts.

 

[Zzuxon]

Because she is a constant reminder that Sakurai can't control his bias.

 

[Xzsmmc]

Because her normal moves are generic, and having more development time spent on her is not what I'd call 'unique'. Admittedly, personal bias probably plays a part here, since I really disliked her (and pretty much everyone who wasn't Hades) in Uprising.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Because she is a constant reminder that Sakurai can't control his bias.

She was a top 10 request in the East and in the West. There might be a lot of KI representation in the Smash 4, but, believe it or not, people actually wanted her in the game.

 

[Overmaster]

Because her normal moves are generic.

What is generic about her? Normal neutral-B is a homing projectile laser with reticle. Jab is a staff of energy stunning the person in place. Downsmash is two giant fricken' goddess swings smashing the ground and producing a windbox.

What, is it because her recovery is fundamentally similar to other recoveries? Yeah, she's moved upwards to facilitate returns to the stage-- like all the recoveries.

 

[Xzsmmc]

What is generic about her? Normal neutral-B is a homing projectile laser with reticle. Jab is a staff of energy stunning the person in place. Downsmash is two giant fricken' goddess swings smashing the ground and producing a hitbox.

B is a projectile, side B is a reflector, down B is a counter, jab hits multiple times, and downsmash hits both sides. From a gameplay perspective, it's all been done.

 

[ErenJager]

Palutena as a character is different from the others because she doesn't bring something unique to gimmicky like all the new additions brought. (Save for the clones, but their inclusion has been explained).

So if we look at Palutena in comparison to the rest shes not unique, gimmicky, or a clone. She's just an additional new comer to fill out the roster with a bland move set.

So the logical thought process is "If we're gonna add generic new comers, why not ones from franchises with less representation but more prestige?". Also other characters had a bigger following or were more "popular".

The answer to that is simple, the models from KI Uprising are newer therefore easier to upload to Smash.

Or as others like to say "Sakuari Bias" which it very well maybe.

This causes people to feel resentment towards the characters inclusion because in their opinions another character would have been better suited for a spot over Palutena.

 

[Dinoman96]

^Palutena does have a gimmick, though. She's the only 'regular' character (Mii Fighters seem to be considered separate from the rest) to have fully unique custom moves. Unfortunately it's turned off online with randoms, but she still has a unique gimmick going for her in that sense.

It's characters like Greninja, WFT, and I suppose Pac-Man that don't really have two much of a central gimmick to them, like Little Mac's power meter, Rosalina's Luma, Shulk's Monado Arts, and of course Palutena's customizable powers.

 

[CardiganBoy]

I don't really hate her, but i think Kid Icarus may be considered more relevant is because it had a recent entry, in reality i'll put KI close to F-Zero or Mother, yeah, there was no reason to not add a F-Zero newcomer or removing Lucas if we consider this.

 

[Dinoman96]

I don't really hate her, but i think Kid Icarus may be considered more relevant is because it had a recent entry, in reality i'll put KI close to F-Zero or Mother, yeah, there was no reason to not add a F-Zero newcomer or removing Lucas if we consider this.

I think losing Lucas was unfortunate (Though I guess I can see why he was seen as a lower priority. He was a semi-clone who whose game was never released outside of Japan and is apart of a series that's been declared finished by its creator), but as for F-Zero, I think Falcon represents it just fine. Even when you ignore the fact that F-Zero hasn't had a game in years, I think it can be said that a vehicle based racing series whose main playable rep had to have his entire moveset made up isn't something that needs more than one character. Likewise, I think Villager is all the Animal Crossing series needs due to its nature, even though it's one of Nintendo's new top series.

 

[ErenJager]

^Palutena does have a gimmick, though. She's the only 'regular' character (Mii Fighters seem to be considered separate from the rest) to have fully unique custom moves. Unfortunately it's turned off online with randoms, but she still has a unique gimmick going for her in that sense.

It's characters like Greninja, WFT, and I suppose Pac-Man that don't really have two much of a central gimmick to them, like Little Mac's power meter, Rosalina's Luma, Shulk's Monado Arts, and of course Palutena's customizable powers.

Doesn't count as a gimmick if you can't use it in for glory.
Also all the other characters have custom moves, just not as many.
Plus the custom moves just hurt Palutena more because they're not even from source material, so their just generic stuff Sakurai thought of which feels very similar to how the Mii's function.

Greninja, WFT, and PACMAN don't have a gimmick but what they do have..
Greninja: From the newest generation of Pokemon, this wasn't likely but they made it happen in little time.
WFT: Is boring but meant to be "Oh no way, Wii Fit gets a rep? get outta here, cool"
Pacman: Third party...old as can be... nostalgia, retro, history, third parties are pretty much exempt from not having a gimmick.

 

[Dinoman96]

Doesn't count as a gimmick if you can't use it in for glory.
Also all the other characters have custom moves, just not as many.
Plus the custom moves just hurt Palutena more because they're not even from source material, so their just generic stuff Sakurai thought of which feels very similar to how the Mii's function.

...except they are from the source material. All her moves are based on powers Pit could equip in Kid Icarus Uprising.

http://www.kidicaruswiki.org/Powers

Yes, all characters have custom specials, but, unlike Palutena and the Mii Fighters, they're all simple variations (though MM's are a little more elaborate), while the aforementioned characters's customs are fully unique.

 

[CardiganBoy]

I think losing Lucas was unfortunate (Though I guess I can see why he was seen as a lower priority. He was a semi-clone who whose game was never released outside of Japan and is apart of a series that's been declared finished by its creator), but as for F-Zero, I think Falcon represents it just fine. Even when you ignore the fact that F-Zero hasn't had a game in years, I think it can be said that a vehicle based racing series whose main playable rep had to have his entire moveset made up isn't something that needs more than one character. Likewise, I think Villager is all the Animal Crossing series needs due to its nature, even though it's one of Nintendo's new top series.

Pit alone may represent Kid Icarus as well too and i'm not ignoring the lack of new F-Zero or Mother games, i was saying that the reason why Kid Icarus can be considered "more relevant" is just because of Uprising being a recent game, and mostly, the momentum Sakurai is giving it from Smash, nothing else.
In reality between these series, getting a new entry is the only reason why they can be placed above the other.
By that logic if F-Zero gets receives a new game they should put a newcomer as well.

 

[Flaxr XIII]

Because people didn't get characters they like so they're taking it out on characters they don't like.
Regarding slots, I can't think of anyone who would be considered a "waste". Except maybe ...

 

[YoshiandToad]

"Why do people think Palutena was a waste of the chatter slot?"

Because I'd of preferred Doc Louis doing chatter instead of Palutena, Viridi and Pit.

 

[4theRECORD]

Because some people are just like that.

Personally, I don't think she was a waste. Her franchise had a new game just two years ago, and Uprising itself was a great game with a wonderful cast, including her. Besides, a lot of her stuff in Smash was probably imported from Uprising anyway.
I considered Bowser Jr to be a bit of a waste before , since at that point there was already Rosalina, and Dr.Mario alone would have been enough for the sixth Mario rep, but I'm having a lot of fun with Iggy so I can't complain.
So yeah, there was no "wasting".

 

[Xevious 1]

I think she is fine. She has been a constant in the Kid Icarus games along with the recent installment, I think she is deserved.
Of course I don't think anyone on the roster is a waste, even Dark Pit given the fact that he didn't take very long to make.

Because people didn't get characters they like so they're taking it out on characters they don't like.
Regarding slots, I can't think of anyone who would be considered a "waste". Except maybe ...

Jigglypuff is far from a wasted character.

 

[Flaxr XIII]

I think she is fine. She has been a constant in the Kid Icarus games along with the recent installment, I think she is deserved.
Of course I don't think anyone on the roster is a waste, even Dark Pit given the fact that he didn't take very long to make.


Jigglypuff is far from a wasted character.

I know. I think a better term to describe it is "ugggggghhhhhh" or something like that.

 

[Chandeelure]

"Slots" ... He he he.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

A series that has only had 3 games. I think Pit (& Dark Pit to some extent) are all we need for Kid Icarus.

Basically, Kid Icarus Uprising has way too much influence in this game. And by adding Palutena she only furthers that statement. That's why I hate Palutena in this game. Her codecs are still awesome.

 

[Lilfut]

Speaking as someone who has an actual emotional reason to hate the Kid Icarus series (association with an ex)...
Get over yourselves. Palutena has a plenty unique and creative moveset, particularly with the customs, and if you wanna whine about 3 KI reps Dark Pit is a much more worthwhile target.
I do think Doc Louis codecs would have been way better than Palutena codecs, though.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Palutena as a character is different from the others because she doesn't bring something unique to gimmicky like all the new additions brought. (Save for the clones, but their inclusion has been explained).

So if we look at Palutena in comparison to the rest shes not unique, gimmicky, or a clone. She's just an additional new comer to fill out the roster with a bland move set.

So the logical thought process is "If we're gonna add generic new comers, why not ones from franchises with less representation but more prestige?". Also other characters had a bigger following or were more "popular".

The answer to that is simple, the models from KI Uprising are newer therefore easier to upload to Smash.

Or as others like to say "Sakuari Bias" which it very well maybe.

This causes people to feel resentment towards the characters inclusion because in their opinions another character would have been better suited for a spot over Palutena.

She was a top 3 request in Japan, literally the only newcomers that could have made it in that where more popular then her where K. Rool, Dixie, and arguably Ridley.

Also, her Gimmick is being an anti-air zoning character.

 

[Frostwraith]

Palutena was popular and demanded. The "Sakurai bias" argument is really getting out of hand.

The version to have tons of KIU content is the 3DS version due to easily ported assets from KIU (guess what, a 3DS game), whereas the Wii U version curiously has as much KIU stuff as other minor series. If there was actual bias, the Wii U version would also have a crapload of content from KIU.

Also, I agree with @ Scoliosis Jones . The reps nonsense really needs to end. Yes, franchise balance is important, but if a franchise has more characters that stand out from others, it will obviously benefit from that.

Animal Crossing is a huge franchise, but what prominent characters besides the Villager does it have that can be unique and stand out?

That's why we have 3 Fire Emblem characters despite the series being relatively smaller. The series as an immense cast of characters to choose from. Each FE character in Smash is unique on their own, with Marth as an agile swordsman, Ike as a heavyweight sword fighter and Robin as a magic knight.

And don't bring these guys () into this, because their inclusion is result of entirely different circumstances that I'm not going to elaborate here since I've done that to death already. Those are just bonus characters easily made from already existing alts (= they would have been playable characters anyway, just not have their own slots on the roster and slight gameplay differences that were made at the last second).

Also, in Melee, we had 2 Star Fox characters and back then, Star Fox had 2 games with one of them being a recent release met with success. No one cared about that. Now, a series with 3 games with one of them having a recent successful release having 3 characters is somehow bad. Nice logic there. (Sakurai bias, more like fanbase bias. Tsk tsk.)

Closing words: haters gonna hate. No character is a waste as long as they have a fanbase that cares about them. If you don't like a character, you got a good choice, which is to deal with it, respect said character's fans and simply don't play as them. Simple, I know.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

She was a top 3 request in Japan, literally the only newcomers that could have made it in that where more popular then her where K. Rool, Dixie, and arguably Ridley.

It's the power of hindsight bias, where people forget or ignore the fact that Palutena made up part of the SmashBoards Elite 4, alongside K. Rool, Ridley and Little Mac.

 

[BirthNote]

The most common answer:
Because Kid Icarus is not in the same league as Metroid or Donkey Kong.

It's not, but I have no issues with Palutena. She's not a clone so I'm not complaining.

There's only 3 characters I think are wasting slots, regardless of development time. I however forget they exist until I face someone who uses them.

 

[Wintropy]

I wasn't aware that people thought this. I won't begrudge people for their opinions, though, even if I disagree with them.

Palutena's as old as Ridley and Samus. She's the title character of the series in Japan. She's a well-written, endearing, charming and exceptionally clever deconstruction of the "Big Good" archetype. Above all, some people just like her and some people dislike her, and that's okay.

 

[Frostwraith]

It's not, but I have no issues with Palutena. She's not a clone so I'm not complaining.

There's only 3 characters I think are wasting slots, regardless of development time. I however forget they exist until I face someone who uses them.

There are no slots. They can put as many characters as they want, especially now with DLC.

And you can't compare well-thought and well-planned unique characters with three clones that were made from turning alts using already existing assets at the last minute during the balancing process.

The same question that's getting old fast: 51 characters with Dr. Mario, Lucina and Dark Pit or 48 characters with no last minute clones tweaked from already existent alts? Because that was the last roster decision that was made for this game.

The three clones being gone wouldn't bring any other character to their place.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Strangeeeee. I personally would have thought Palu not being an odd addition since Brawl-times, considering she's basically Zelda of the series (and ONLY NPC from an existing Nintendo-game to be a supportive character in SSE). While KIU might have played a lot with her inclusion, I think she's still a legit choice to the roster by the series standard and she's wholly welcomed to the fray IMO.

On slots though, lol.

 

[Flaxr XIII]

Its what happens when you ask the director of Kid Icarus Uprising to make a new Smash right after he just finished KI:U.

 

[BirthNote]

There are no slots. They can put as many characters as they want, especially now with DLC.

Time constraints say otherwise. They had a deadline, and unless they wanna keep delaying the game for years they can't put as many as they want. Every game developer has to consider time when adding things and none have made a game with everything planned from the beginning making the cut. Couple that with the need to have a big holiday release this year to keep Wii U momentum up and it gets clear to see they couldn't add as many as they want; there likely wouldn't be DLC for this game if they could accomplish adding every character. The ICs would be in if that's the case and the whole matter isn't as simple as who they want, regardless of DLC. Post release characters won't be the magical problem-solver of requests as there's tons to factor in for each.

BTW, what's your definition of character slots? With this being a fighting/party game with plenty of characters to choose, I have a hard time accepting there's no slots.

And you can't compare well-thought and well-planned unique characters with three clones that were made from turning alts using already existing assets at the last minute during the balancing process.

So we can't hold a handful of characters to the same standard as the majority in the same game? This is a finished product; since when was it widely accepted to give one aspect of a game an easy pass and not the other because of the developer diary? The irony here is that clone or not, playable characters is only one aspect of the game, and we can't compare last minute roster dressings to the roster when they're a part of it? Right now, it sounds like we shouldn't waste time holding them to the same standard; there's less effort put into them, and they weren't meant to have their own slot and they got here through cheap circumstances, so we either put them in a 2nd class category or acknowledge that they're inferior to the well-thought and well-planned additions.

The same question that's getting old fast: 51 characters with Dr. Mario, Lucina and Dark Pit or 48 characters with no last minute clones tweaked from already existent alts? Because that was the last roster decision that was made for this game.

The three clones being gone wouldn't bring any other character to their place.

I prefer the latter, and the clones are a minor nuisance to me that I easily ignore.

Back to OP, I have nothing negative to say about Palutena.

 

[Frostwraith]

Time constraints say otherwise. They had a deadline, and unless they wanna keep delaying the game for years they can't put as many as they want. Every game developer has to consider time when adding things and none have made a game with everything planned from the beginning making the cut. Couple that with the need to have a big holiday release this year to keep Wii U momentum up and it gets clear to see they couldn't add as many as they want; there likely wouldn't be DLC for this game if they could accomplish adding every character. The ICs would be in if that's the case and the whole matter isn't as simple as who they want, regardless of DLC. Post release characters won't be the magical problem-solver of requests as there's tons to factor in for each.

BTW, what's your definition of character slots? With this being a fighting/party game with plenty of characters to choose, I have a hard time accepting there's no slots.

Yes, time constraints are a thing, but what I meant to say is that they can decide the number (or an estimate) of characters to be added in the game.

They're not going to be all like "this roster will have X slots and we will decide who will fill each slot". That's not how it works. They try to aim for a certain number of playable characters, prioritizing some above others based on different criteria. If they have extra time, they can make more characters. If they don't have enough time, they have to cut some.

No characters take over other slots. That's asinine logic.

I poorly worded my phrase, so I didn't get the right message across, so I hope you can understand my point better.

So we can't hold a handful of characters to the same standard as the majority in the same game? This is a finished product; since when was it widely accepted to give one aspect of a game an easy pass and not the other because of the developer diary? The irony here is that clone or not, playable characters is only one aspect of the game, and we can't compare last minute roster dressings to the roster when they're a part of it? Right now, it sounds like we shouldn't waste time holding them to the same standard; there's less effort put into them, and they weren't meant to have their own slot and they got here through cheap circumstances, so we either put them in a 2nd class category or acknowledge that they're inferior to the well-thought and well-planned additions.

The whining about clone characters has always been blown out of proportion. People have a strange hatred for clones that I can't really understand.

They should be treated as what they are: bonus characters. Easter eggs. They took little to no effort just to appease specific sections of fans. You can't go wrong with that, honestly.

Clone characters added at the last minute cannot be compared with characters planned from the beginning due to the different circumstances of their addition. Apples and oranges: both fruits, yet different.

And it's not a matter of laziness (I think it's not laziness to add extra bonus content) or being inferior or superior or whatever.

I prefer the latter, and the clones are a minor nuisance to me that I easily ignore.

I prefer having a 51-character roster over a 48-character roster.

I don't mind clones as long as they don't take up a large percentage of the roster (e.g. if the Koopalings were all separated, as that would stagnate the roster). They're just three characters out of 51 sitting in their clone corner. Like I said, they're bonus content. Even Sakurai himself said that and, in my opinion, they should be treated as that.

Yet, they're treated like they are some sort of abomination.

 

[Wintropy]

In all honesty, if Sakurai included, say, Hades or Viridi as another character with their own moveset that took time and effort to crate as well as what we already have...

Then, yeah, I would say something's amiss.

@ ~ Valkyrie ~ hit the nail on the had when he said that she's the Zelda of her series, right down to the fact that, in Japan, her name is right there in the title.

She's pretty important to Nintendo's hustory. I personally think Sakurai did a great job reinventing the series and the character and her role as a playable character Smash is a celebration of that.

 

[YoshiandToad]

She's pretty important to Nintendo's hustory. I personally think Sakurai did a great job reinventing the series and the character and her role as a playable character Smash is a celebration of that.

I'm actually not sure if she is that important to Nintendo's history. Hear me out:

She's not exactly fleshed out in the first two Kid Icarus games, nor a particularly iconic instantly recognizable character nor in the first KI did she have a role outside of the Peach/Zelda/Pauline archetype. Okay, she cursed Medusa and there's some backstory in the booklet, but her basic role is to meet Pit at the end of the game.

Overall she was pretty unimportant, unrecognizable and fairly forgettable until Sakurai came along and fleshed her out in Uprising.

Do I think she's a waste of development time? A little, but only due to all the additional customs that needed making. The character certainly has a fanbase now and thus is not a waste of a 'character slot'.

 

[SS-bros14]

Because apparently Sakurai can't add a character from a game he created without being called biased.

 

[Brickbuild101]

If anything, I'd say Pittoo is the unnecessary one.