Why do people play low-mid tiers?(THIS ARGUMENT APPLIES TO BRAWL ONLY)

[Tom]

You shouldn't look at a tier list to determine what character you want to play as, you should play as them all and figure out whom you have the most fun with and play as them.

 

[Soulwithlife]

I disagree. I don't believe in tiers, at all.
'Playing low tiers(and usually even mid tiers) in brawl will never allow you to ever win a decent tournament filled with good players.'
If thats your opinion, thats fine. Just don't word it like its a fact.

 

[Laijin]

Wow. I'm a bit behind on responding here.
I'll just end my argument by saying "Everyone has their opinions of fun. Winning happens to be my view of fun."
You guys can continue to discuss low tiers

 

[Collective of Bears]

I may play Wario but tbh that's only
for semi-serious play. Any other time you'll probably see me using Bowser. I like playing low tiers a lot, and I oftentimes will unless it's serious, in which case I use Wario. I think low tiers are just as important as high tiers.

 

[CaptainOlimar123]

Do tiers really matter? =/

 

[SSSnake]

in my opinion, a lot of people are trying to build a low-tier, anti-meta enviornment where you can trump a meta knight with ganon or something. in my opinion, the only E/F tier person with potentual is link. anyway, people may be a fan of ness or link or ganon. you may see somebody who plays someone like ike, who really have no potentual. they probablt played with them when they were noobs.

 

[Collective of Bears]

in my opinion, a lot of people are trying to build a low-tier, anti-meta enviornment where you can trump a meta knight with ganon or something. in my opinion, the only E/F tier person with potentual is link. anyway, people may be a fan of ness or link or ganon. you may see somebody who plays someone like ike, who really have no potentual. they probablt played with them when they were noobs.

It's spelled Potential.

And I'd like to know how you're getting that Link is the only low tier with potential and Ike, Ganon, Ness, etc. have no potential.

 

[Adler]

...So that debates like this can continue. They're fun to read.

Seriously though.

1.) I play Ike/Captain Falcon/Ganondorf better than I play MK/Diddy/Falco, and always will.
2.) MK's boring.
3.) Even if they lose, it's funny when a low tier character get a lucky KO on a high tier.

There are other reasons but these are the ones I can think of right now.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

...So that debates like this can continue. They're fun to read.

Seriously though.

1.) I play Ike/Captain Falcon/Ganondorf better than I play MK/Diddy/Falco, and always will.
2.) MK's boring.
3.) Even if they lose, it's funny when a low tier character get a lucky KO on a high tier.

There are other reasons but these are the ones I can think of right now.

I am seriously sick and tired of ignorant comments like this. People seem to think that a low tier character can only win by luck against a higher tiered character. Ganon v. Pit, for example, is only 25-75. I believe that the Mario matchup with Ganon is about the same, though a few Marios I've talked to place it closer to the 65-35 mark, where the C. Falcon matchup is, if only because Ganon kills easier.

When I win, it's not because I got lucky, or you were playing badly, or you screwed up.

It's because I WON.

Now get over yourselves. The amount of arrogance by some people in this thread is astounding.

 

[DarkDragoon]

>_> I played Mewtwo in Melee for years. He just felt so natural to me. Lol...
<_< But when I started taking it more seriously, going from getting 1-2 stocked by people in a tournament match to getting 4 stocked on my counterpick just didn't really fly, so I picked up and am more or less dedicated to Sheik now.

And I can't stay focused enough on Brawl to play anyone but Lucario. Hes like Mewtwo all over again but with goodness.

Many lower tiers mirror higher tiers in play style or technique. [Melee talk] Pikachu is like low-tier Fox, Ness is like Low Tier Falcon, Mewtwo is low Tier Sheik, etc. [Brawl talk] I have no idea about how to play all the low tiers in Brawl. But I assume a similar principle is evident.

-DD

 

[sasquatch1]

I don't know if this thread is dead or not but anyways @OP

a couple reasons people play low/mid tiers
1. Not everyone exclusively cares about winning
2. Not everyone exclusively cares about money
3. Some people don't want to sell out just to win as a high/top tier
4. Ignorant people like you who can't see reason (fail arguments against multiple people in this thread)
5. low tiers are fun because its challenging, not all people love being spoon fed easy matchups and an easier shot at winning tournys
6. Because a challenge in some peoples eyes is a lot more fun
7. If there were no variety at tourny's besides 3-4 top tier characters no one would go cuz it would be boring as ****
8. If people stopped going to tourny's you would have no one to win money against

On a different topic. If your sole reason for playing is winning and winning money why do you play? Looking back at the 25 recognizable tournys from 2009 there were a lot of prize money, but your name didn't show up at all!??!!?!!? so using your own logic you should stop playing because it looks like your having no fun

 

[-Kiros-]

I asked this same question last year, and I believe that there is no real competitive reason to not go high tier. The only real reason is to prove a point (highly uneffective) or to just enjoy the game on an non-competitive level. If you're looking to win a tourney there's no feasible reason not to use a high tier character.

 

[ShardFenix]

realistically low tiers have no chance at winning against high tiers.

You are either a troll, or really stupid.

 

[jhorx123]

i use ganon, cf and mario but idc. i use wario sometimes

 

[SSSnake]

It's spelled Potential.

And I'd like to know how you're getting that Link is the only low tier with potential and Ike, Ganon, Ness, etc. have no potential.

i was just a bit tired at the time but anyway, yeah everyone has some potentual, and for lox tiers, i find that link has the most. i just dont see much for some charcters like ike. ikes cool and all, dont get get me wrong, i just dont see him in competitive play.

 

[Laijin]

You are either a troll, or really stupid.

I am neither. This is my own opinion and I am only specifically talking about brawl seeing as how I have not seen a low/mid tier place very well at a major tournament in a long time

 

[Purple]

I am neither. This is my own opinion and I am only specifically talking about brawl seeing as how I have not seen a low/mid tier place very well at a major tournament in a long time

Your arguement says nothing about only including brawl.

Luigi wins tournaments all the time over here.

And what about that Reflex guy who won Herb3.


hmmm...

 

[thumbswayup]

You are either a troll, or really stupid.

Explain to me how he is wrong in thinking low tiers in BRAWL don't stand a chance at winning? And no, don't bring up Herb 3 as an example because there was no outstanding competition for Reflex. When a low tier beats M2k's MK or Ally's Snake or ADHD's Diddy and WINS A NATIONAL TOURNAMENT then you can come back and say told you so.

 

[Purple]

Kismet2 is one of the top Falco players in the nation, and he is using a high tier character.

You might as well ask why people use snake in brawl considering mk is obviously the best character in the game and barely anyone stands a chance against him

 

[Laijin]

Kismet2 is one of the top Falco players in the nation, and he is using a high tier character.

You might as well ask why people use snake in brawl considering mk is obviously the best character in the game and barely anyone stands a chance against him

Last time I checked Falco and Snake were high tier characters.
Cool argument bro.

Also. This argument only applies to Brawl.
Most other fighting games the tier list are not so unbalanced.

 

[Purple]

dude, the whole arguement was reflex beats kismet2, Pokemon Trainer > Falco now? lolol

Oh, and luigi-> Biglou was the arguement i was using as person beating people in georgia.

 

[Laijin]

The argument is low tiers in brawl realistically can't win in a national tournament(Since that is the highest level of competitive play, and therefore the only thing that holds weight in this argument). Herb 3 was not a national tournament and your examples are from there.
So I don't really count those examples. Plus the best players in the nation were not even present, so Reflex beating a couple of random dudes at a random tournament does not really count for much in this argument

 

[Purple]

lol @ random dudes = top players from NC, GA, AL, and SC

But why only national tournament? I mean, you're giving me an arguement that "BLAH PEOPLE SHOULDN'T PLAY LOW TIERS BECAUSE IN NATIONAL TOURNAMENTS.."

...

Not everyone goes to national tournaments, that defeats that entirely. Some people just want to be the best in the city, state, regional, etc. With that being known, Does a place like random state with no smash community #5 really care about whether using metaknight makes link entirely viable? Hell, do they always know their mistakes of rolling too much and how do punish random f-smashes. No they don't, because of that, characters like Ike might be amazing because "HE KILLS AT 50 OH MY GOOOOOOOD" and generally, that's all that matters to them, that's as far as they will get with their metagame until someone goes to smashboards.

So, the problem i see with your arguement is you're using outliers, which in a general sense doesn't apply to the entire world.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

i main mario because hes my favorite character, i dont really care about how "bad" or how low he is on the tier list..

 

[thumbswayup]

Generally, the idea of playing a fighting game in tournament is to compete, so why on earth would you constantly enter ANY kind of tournament with a low tier in Brawl if you DIDN'T have it somewhere in your head that you'd want to move up in the ranks and attend the bigger tournaments? If you're so content with playing your character because he is your favorite and you always lose with him then fine, play with your friends or online or w/e to pass the time. Why waste your money and time in the process? Are you honestly going to enter tournaments every single weekend with Link not caring about winning and just doing it for fun? It's called friendlies, Brawl is not a good competitive fighter, do not defend it as such.

 

[ranmaru]

Generally, the idea of playing a fighting game in tournament is to compete, so why on earth would you constantly enter ANY kind of tournament with a low tier in Brawl if you DIDN'T have it somewhere in your head that you'd want to move up in the ranks and attend the bigger tournaments? If you're so content with playing your character because he is your favorite and you always lose with him then fine, play with your friends or online or w/e to pass the time. Why waste your money and time in the process? Are you honestly going to enter tournaments every single weekend with Link not caring about winning and just doing it for fun? It's called friendlies, Brawl is not a good competitive fighter, do not defend it as such.

Also, tournaments would be used to see how good or bad one can be at the game. So if one wants to know how good they are with a low tier, they can use the tournament (even a national, although for a first time that is sort of scary) as a skill checker. Money wouldn't have to matter, if they are reaping experience benefits. As some have said, it is much much harder to win with low tier, but if you love that character, then you'd do it. Why waste the money and time? Well, you can get better, you can learn new things, you can meet people with your interests, you can see what level you are on, etc. IF you really want to get good, it doesn't matter what character you will use. Well how much hardship and toil you'll go through will be different depending on what character you use, but that would be up to YOU and only YOU.

Course, I use Diddy in Brawl, so I don't really have much to say for that. Of course, I used him from the start, so I didn't know who was good or not. I picked him because he seemed closest to my doc, and closer than mario in brawl, to doc.

To me, winning money doesn't matter. Winning, does matter to me. Like Laijin said, I'd have fun in winning. Although I just have to work really hard. I really want to be good at this game, and so I will try my best to practice as much as I can, and lose constantly in tournaments, hopefully learning what I'm doing wrong and how I can improve.

But, if I ever got good, I'd definetly like the convenience of winning money. But I'd rather just work for money, and play to win.

But also, you could say I'm hardheaded, so that could be your reason why I'd enter tournaments using low tiers constantly (I'm also persistent). Although I don't enter brawl tournaments.

 

[Purple]

Generally, the idea of playing a fighting game in tournament is to compete.

Compete in what fashion? Against their friends? Against their School? We are in the smash community, we know of the huge smash tournaments and how the tier list works. Therefore we can only see MLG, and Apex, and Pound, as the memorable tournaments to be the best in. While someone who just wants to beat their friend in a competitive setting would only see entering a tournament at their local school as the end point.

so why on earth would you constantly enter ANY kind of tournament with a low tier in Brawl if you DIDN'T have it somewhere in your head that you'd want to move up in the ranks and attend the bigger tournaments?

You see that's where we have a problem, you can't say EVERYONE wants to beat Mew2King, everyone doesn't know who Mew2King is.

If you're so content with playing your character because he is your favorite and you always lose with him then fine, play with your friends or online or w/e to pass the time.

What about the people who already do this? By 'this' I mean playing with their friends and playing Online, and only do that. They don't know to or go to actual SWF-centered smash tournaments. While you want to say 'EVERYONE KNOWS MK IS THE BEST CHARACTER EVAR' You can't, merely because it can't be proven that everyone even plays that character in every community.

Why waste your money and time in the process? Are you honestly going to enter tournaments every single weekend with Link not caring about winning and just doing it for fun?

What if a Link player is playing amongst his friends and wins all the time every weekend in these local tournaments. Why would he have any reason to stop investing or to stop playing?

It's called friendlies, Brawl is not a good competitive fighter, do not defend it as such.

Brawl is a competitive fighter in a certain setting. To say that Brawl isn't a competitive is to say MvC2 isn't competitive, and that's played at every regional/national tournament continuously, you just have to use certain characters.

 

[Yonder]

Well my best is Luigi, and I can play with anyone else nearly as good as I can with him. If I decided to pick up a high or top tier, then i'd still lose anyways because there's just going to be people who are better with that character.

At least playing low-mid tiers gives you the advantage with the opponent being unknowledgeable against the character since they would of never played them.

 

[Laijin]

Compete in what fashion? Against their friends? Against their School? We are in the smash community, we know of the huge smash tournaments and how the tier list works. Therefore we can only see MLG, and Apex, and Pound, as the memorable tournaments to be the best in. While someone who just wants to beat their friend in a competitive setting would only see entering a tournament at their local school as the end point.



You see that's where we have a problem, you can't say EVERYONE wants to beat Mew2King, everyone doesn't know who Mew2King is.



What about the people who already do this? By 'this' I mean playing with their friends and playing Online, and only do that. They don't know to or go to actual SWF-centered smash tournaments. While you want to say 'EVERYONE KNOWS MK IS THE BEST CHARACTER EVAR' You can't, merely because it can't be proven that everyone even plays that character in every community.



What if a Link player is playing amongst his friends and wins all the time every weekend in these local tournaments. Why would he have any reason to stop investing or to stop playing?



Brawl is a competitive fighter in a certain setting. To say that Brawl isn't a competitive is to say MvC2 isn't competitive, and that's played at every regional/national tournament continuously, you just have to use certain characters.

I don't like making multiquotes in posts because its too much ****ing effort so i'll just manually address your points sir in list fashion.

1. Whats your point? Tournaments = You want to compete. I'm pretty sure thats clear.

2. Nine times out of nine, if you are going to a brawl tournament that was announced smash boards, its likely everyone in that room knows who Mewtwo King is. If you are going to a casual tournament with completely random people who don't even know what smashboards is, then of course they won't know who M2K is because they literally only play for fun and don't compete. This argument is clearly not focused towards those group of people. So..once again. Whats your point?

3. Once more. Whats your point? We are not talking about casual gamers here.

4. Its like your completely focusing on the casual gaming side and not the actual competitive smash side of things. It was clearly implied that he was talking about this Link main entering larger tournaments where it would be very hard for him to win, and probably nearly impossible too.

5. Brawl is a competitive fighter. I won't deny that, however this comment is completely irrelevant to the argument. So I'm just gonna ignore this one..

At least playing low-mid tiers gives you the advantage with the opponent being unknowledgeable against the character since they would of never played them.

A little bit of advice. I played Young Link for so long because I was able to beat people who had zero match up experience against him. I honestly thought "Hey. If they don't know the match up, it tough for them!". However, this is sadly not the case with exceptionally good players. It doesn't matter if they don't know the match up at all, you still get ***** if they are a very good player and their character destroys your character. Unless of course you are actually ridiculously good with said character, then you actually have a chance. This of course is ridiculously much harder to do with Brawl in particular. So seriously, don't bank on that.

 

[Purple]

I don't like making multiquotes in posts because its too much ****ing effort so i'll just manually address your points sir in list fashion.

1. Whats your point? Tournaments = You want to compete. I'm pretty sure thats clear.

2. Nine times out of nine, if you are going to a brawl tournament that was announced smash boards, its likely everyone in that room knows who Mewtwo King is. If you are going to a casual tournament with completely random people who don't even know what smashboards is, then of course they won't know who M2K is because they literally only play for fun and don't compete. This argument is clearly not focused towards those group of people. So..once again. Whats your point?

3. Once more. Whats your point? We are not talking about casual gamers here.

4. Its like your completely focusing on the casual gaming side and not the actual competitive smash side of things. It was clearly implied that he was talking about this Link main entering larger tournaments where it would be very hard for him to win, and probably nearly impossible too.

5. Brawl is a competitive fighter. I won't deny that, however this comment is completely irrelevant to the argument. So I'm just gonna ignore this one..



A little bit of advice. I played Young Link for so long because I was able to beat people who had zero match up experience against him. I honestly thought "Hey. If they don't know the match up, it tough for them!". However, this is sadly not the case with exceptionally good players. It doesn't matter if they don't know the match up at all, you still get ***** if they are a very good player and their character destroys your character. Unless of course you are actually ridiculously good with said character, then you actually have a chance. This of course is ridiculously much harder to do with Brawl in particular. So seriously, don't bank on that.

1) Tournaments = Compete yes, but putting something on the line also = competiting. So these casual tournaments are competition?

2)This arguement only applies to brawl. The reason i brought it up is because that isn't something that's clear, and it's something that needs to be brought up. You're ignoring the fact that casual tournaments are completely different than national tournaments. You're going to need to change your arguement again?

3)Change your arguement. Because if we're not including casual, then obviously people should only use high tiers. But wait, don't low tiers still have gimmicks? San is an Ike player who almost beat Ally (one of the best in the nation) JUST yesterday!

4) I have no reason to stop bringing up casual gameplay, cause fact of the matter is, it isn't implied that this argument is only for MLG play, you're just saying it is. Eventually your arguement is going to be "Why do people play low tiers at a tournament with 50 m2k's who only use MK."

 

[Laijin]

Alright dude. To put it simply, I find adding casual gaming into an argument thats about people who play brawl and in tournaments frequently, making that not casual gaming, kinda dumb. If I was arguing about casual gaming, I'd post this argument on gamefaqs...not smashboards.
So no. Casual gaming does not matter in this argument because people who are casual gamers generally don't care about tiers and play purely for fun(Which btw I addressed both of these in this argument and I won't address them again). Which is completely not what this argument is about.

 

[Yung Mei]

here's my contribution:

Low tiers are much more awesome than high tiers. If you killed someone using MK's "coolest" attack (in a tourney match), everyone would be like "ok, x got y there"

BUT

if someone kills an opponent with a Falcon Punch (in a tourney match again lol), EVERYONE who sees it would orgasm simultaneously


i myself main Captain Falcon. i can't go to actual tourneys, but i do get to play in Wifi Tourney's every now and then. In every tourney that i have played in so far, i always used Captain Falcon. I never win, but i do improve. By getting my *** kicked repeatedly by higher tier characters, i have learned how to fight against them and end up fighting better than ever.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I <3 the SWF Lucas community to stop using him.

I've also gotten too good with him that I try playing other characters, and I'm like, "man, If I were Lucas I know EXACTLY how to punish that / I wish I could use X move of Lucas to hit them." He's just my means of playing Smash, I play other characters to cover some other MU's but, he's staying my main.

 

[BigDaddy4]

People love to use the characters they enjoy more than they use the best characters for the most part.

 

[Mota]

Funzies, **** low tier tourneys, gets you laid.

 

[Sleek Media]

How does a character become high tier? IIRC, you guys use tournament rankings to determine tiers. If there are 3000 MK players in tournaments, and 10 Mario players, MK is obviously going to have better results.

MK and Snake's flat-out brokenness aside, I think the tiers are useless. They're mostly an approximation of how cheap you can be with each character (infinites, chain grabs, priority, etc). If you need a distinct character advantage to win your matches, then go high tier. Doesn't say much for your skill, though.

 

[Jman115]

I do it for the challenge.

 

[Shorts]

You make it sound like losing a tournament is the end of the world. I honestly hate tiers. Like, if being good isnt enough for a Jiggs player to win a bad MK player than there is something wrong. Tiers just point out the easiest character to be so everyone is them. I be Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mario, ZS and IC because I like them, not for any other reason.

 

[Purple]

People play low tiers for fun. you make it seem like spending money is the worst thing possible, and losing tournaments is the worst thing possible.

You're pressuring that no one should play high tiers competitively, and sliding off all other arguments.

Let's change the scenario for a moment.

Why do people only have sex with girls and not have relationships? Instead of spending MONEY every time just to lay with a girl, you could be top tier and have relationships right? Some people don't care for relationships, and rather go through the trouble of ****ing a bunch of girls and spending money every time because that's just what they'll enjoy, if they find that they get serious about a girl, they'll develop a relationship, but if that never happens, they'll enjoy themselves with what they do.

Some people don't want the glory of winning tournaments, if it happens then it happens, but there's more to playing a game competitively than winning. You make winning tournaments seem like the best thing in the world. I want to take an example from GA, Biglou got top 8 at MLG Orland using luigi the entire time. Playing against matchups like Marth, ZSS, and MK, all of them BAD matchups! These players weren't mid-level players either, each of them had high-level skill, each of them known for their superior character (mikeHAZE, best marth, Snakeee, one of the best ZSS, Atomsk, one of the best D3's and MK's coming from the best region in the nation). He didn't win, fine, he proves your arguement or w/e about not winning with mid tiers. But we were proud of him as a community for sporting his character, and i'm sure he was just as proud of himself. There comes a sense of accomplishment doing what you want to do because you enjoy it, instead of doing it competitively.


End of arguement.


/unsubscribe

 

[Diddy Kong]

I play Diddy, cause I don't like Meta Knight. And I don't play Meta Knight, cause I like Diddy. =)

He's far from low tier though.