Whose Mafia Is it Anyway - Game Over!

[Tom]

i ISO'd Lore and all i got was this stupid t-shirt

 

[OrangeXhtml]

I’m not sure why people were leaping for lynching an uncc’d PR, so there’s more reading I have to do.

I agree with this. If nothing else, an un-CC'd Oracle should definitely live past D1; if they don't, we don't get to try and trigger their ability.

thats because youre not caught up

Fair enough, I'll keep reading lol.

 

[Tom]

its convenient. i know im town. i dont think ANYONE wants to go kary today other than you. i am interested in exploring pythag tho so im all ears if you have more on that

also cant help but feel its fairly arbitrary how i ended up in scum pile as opposed to tom/kevin/ryker. like do you really see my slot/play as so different from theirs? it seems like you just picked my name out of the hat and used my meta against me to shade me

gotta do some **** but ill b around sporadically while i think **** over. were spose to do a fireworks thing tonight but its raining and were waiting to see if itll b delayed to tomorrow

btw this is where marshy is. probably rude of me to ask him to show up when he said he would be out.

I said I would vote Tom in my next post. Tom flipping town is irreverent to what I would do.

irrelevant* oooooo brownie pooooints

 

[ranmaru]

He's becoming a monster

 

[Tom]

 

[OrangeXhtml]

So here's my thought. I think our best town winning play is lynching Soup. I think he's scum and he is desperate. I also think Lore is scum with him, due to Lore's grimy vote on Soup, which makes much more sense now. He had some sudden reversal and it didn't really make sense until now. Then the third scum... as no surprise... is Spak. Yet I'm more confident Soup > Lore flip scum, and then after we can get Spak. Yes, I think all scum have been wagoned.

Jeez, I thought you'd have more respect for the three of us as players. With a hypothetical Spak/Soup/Lore scumteam, that would've been by far the worst played D1 start for scum in the history of mafia lol.

 

[Tom]

im fully ok with orange v lore competing wagons. i do not get orange's pythag angle.

if pythag is scum kevin could be scum and i refuse to live in that world. my worst fear right now is a pythag/kevin/FF scumteam. wow i did it guys. i hypothesized a scumteam and now i want to die.

 

[KevinM]

I am frankly bored of you talking about your own meta.



We are not friends. If you could refrain from offering me pleasantries it would considerably reduce the amount I hate your guts.

Hope you're having a good night Kary

 

[KevinM]

im fully ok with orange v lore competing wagons. i do not get orange's pythag angle.

if pythag is scum kevin could be scum and i refuse to live in that world. my worst fear right now is a pythag/kevin/FF scumteam. wow i did it guys. i hypothesized a scumteam and now i want to die.

don't be dumb silly <3, just checked my town meter and it actually just hit 675,000% town. Wild. VERY town. VERY cool.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

giraffelasergun Thirdkoopa votecount plz ty

 

[Tom]

Tom
Kev
Kary
Fan
Ryker
Marshy
Soup
Pythag
Gorf
Ran
FF
Orange
Lore

 

[Tom]

I'll wake up and put it more work tomorrow before End of Day

 

[OrangeXhtml]

OK, I'm through Soup's reads and headed to bed because I need to make up some hours at work tomorrow (and then I'm probably going down to Indy for a bit). I should be on more tomorrow evening, and I'll definitely be around (and hopefully read up) by deadline.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Votecount

Soup (5): Kary, Kevin, Fandangox, marshy, lore
Lore (2): Tom, Ryker
OrangeXHTML (4): Gorf, Frozen Flame, Pythag. ranmaru
Pythag(2): OrangeXHTML, Soup

Not Voting(0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in 13 hours and 44 minutes from this post.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

works gonna make it tough for me to get on my computer by the end of the phase.

i really think that a lot of the hubbub surrounding soups lynch is founded on a combination of his play being all over the place (but not necessarily in a scummy way, just in a hes stuck in a loop of playing ****ty kind of way, which plenty of townies in the past have been guilty of (take lore, up, and ran from last game as examples)) and him being a liability that is comfortable to lynch for the moment.

i dont think his play is that scummy but i guess my big problem is that i cant really defend because a lot of it has just been bad. but enough of his play hasnt and i feel like his obnoxiousness has obscured that. either way, i think that there are two BIG reasons why he feels like the suboptimal play:

1) his claim. whether we like it or not, the pros to keeping him around for AT LEAST another Day phase severely outweigh the cons. tbh i think itd be such an absurd gamble to have scums rolecop be the one that claims town oracle and risk being cc’d. he also did it with DAYS before the deadline and at l-3. thats bad timing for scum to pull that out and take that risk. there was also enough time for him to have finessed the lynch and thrown it elsewhere. and objectively, lets say town isnt convinced of him being town by toMorrow. the possibility of having a clear is ****ing raw and all we have to do is delay the lynch by a Day and hes either town and gets a result, town and gets none (showing theres an rb), town and he dies at Night giving us a result based on NAR (but that IS highly doubtful), or hes scum and theres DEFINITELY enough people who want him dead.

2) theres another player who has mad wagon support who is, imo, more scummy and has plenty to look at upon a flip.

 

[Lore]

We are not friends. If you could refrain from offering me pleasantries it would considerably reduce the amount I hate your guts.

Last game, I asked you to calm down the hostilities. You did so this game, so far. So I thanked you for it.

And then I get this tossed in my face.

You are a genuinely unpleasant person to interact with, and I have done every single thing in my power to try to bridge the gap. You continue to be a toxic, miserable human being to play a game with.

This is above and beyond both the spirit of mafia and the site's rules, and I will be speaking to the mods assigned to this sub about this issue. Frankly, I'd be infracting you for this if I was assigned here.

It has gotten to the point where I'd rather quit the game instead of interacting with you further, but I refuse to be bullied out of a forum game. So I'm staying.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

ive been puttin my time to good use. cotton candy flavored water ice, baby

we need to make a decision and lynch someone. ill b around in a lil bit

 

[Lore]

For today's lynch I want Soup gone. All the theorycrafting about an Oracle action is well and good, but I believe he is lying about being an Oracle so it's moot to me.

I'm also OK with Spak/Orange. It's a slot that I have been iffy on all Day, and while it's not a hard scum read like Soup, it's a slot that I'm having a hard time reading and deciding on. Between that and the sheer amount of people talking about Spak, a flip would be very helpful. I'd support this wagon (or a vig shot on this slot while lynching Soup).

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Lore

Except the thing is that I'm trying to get along with you better. Which is why I'm telling you what i find frustrating about your behaviour, e.g. when you patronizingly thank me for being 'better behaved'. I really do not have a beef with you, I just find you annoying, and I would really prefer to just focus on the game and not have this be about our obviously conflicting personalities. But if you want to call the mods, by all means go ahead.

 

[Lore]

Why yes, saying how much you hate my guts is "getting along better."

I'm fine with shelving this until post game, but you're a genuinely unpleasant player that multiple people have complained about. It's not just me.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Tom
Kev
Kary
Fan
Ryker
Marshy
Soup
Pythag
Gorf
Ran
FF
Orange
Lore

damn this hurt to see but also pretty understandable if you're thinking about a pythag/me scumteam because yeah I get it, he's like open buddying me and our slots aren't exactly gleaming with townieness atm

the fact that you have my top two lynch picks below me tho is a great silver lining tho lmao

For today's lynch I want Soup gone. All the theorycrafting about an Oracle action is well and good, but I believe he is lying about being an Oracle so it's moot to me.

I'm also OK with Spak/Orange. It's a slot that I have been iffy on all Day, and while it's not a hard scum read like Soup, it's a slot that I'm having a hard time reading and deciding on. Between that and the sheer amount of people talking about Spak, a flip would be very helpful. I'd support this wagon (or a vig shot on this slot while lynching Soup).

top paragraph is ****ing grimeeeeee bro holy **** where is this confidence coming from? "it's a moot point?" Nah dude if you think there's any p<1 chance that soup isn't scum then your risk assessment should be factoring in the different punish values we get hit with depending on if soup is a PR and we do this all in strat of lynch before night phase against standard "book play" theory. Makes me think you aren't actually thinking about the risk reward. Could be idgaf/brash townie but this comes off like scum flavor certainty

works gonna make it tough for me to get on my computer by the end of the phase.

i really think that a lot of the hubbub surrounding soups lynch is founded on a combination of his play being all over the place (but not necessarily in a scummy way, just in a hes stuck in a loop of playing ****ty kind of way, which plenty of townies in the past have been guilty of (take lore, up, and ran from last game as examples)) and him being a liability that is comfortable to lynch for the moment.

i dont think his play is that scummy but i guess my big problem is that i cant really defend because a lot of it has just been bad. but enough of his play hasnt and i feel like his obnoxiousness has obscured that. either way, i think that there are two BIG reasons why he feels like the suboptimal play:

1) his claim. whether we like it or not, the pros to keeping him around for AT LEAST another Day phase severely outweigh the cons. tbh i think itd be such an absurd gamble to have scums rolecop be the one that claims town oracle and risk being cc’d. he also did it with DAYS before the deadline and at l-3. thats bad timing for scum to pull that out and take that risk. there was also enough time for him to have finessed the lynch and thrown it elsewhere. and objectively, lets say town isnt convinced of him being town by toMorrow. the possibility of having a clear is ****ing raw and all we have to do is delay the lynch by a Day and hes either town and gets a result, town and gets none (showing theres an rb), town and he dies at Night giving us a result based on NAR (but that IS highly doubtful), or hes scum and theres DEFINITELY enough people who want him dead.

2) theres another player who has mad wagon support who is, imo, more scummy and has plenty to look at upon a flip.

this is an excellent ****ing take, if you're scum and leveling up and playing me again **** you but for real this just keeps the whole claim situation a buck

we need to make a decision and lynch someone. ill b around in a lil bit

but actually though. can you tell me if I'm being crazy for my needle not moving anywhere away from Lore or OrangeXHTML as top two plays today?

 

[ranmaru]

I think the best play is Soup right now. I am starting to feel that if soup is scum, spak and Lore may not be scum. Kary brings up that Lore voting soup would be suicide and that is a good point. Now with Spak, his interactions with Lore don't seem like he is aligned with Lore. I feel Soup's explosion is to place a seed of doubt and confusion as scum. His reads seem more like scum spew rather than a townie trying to find scum. I still feel his frustration was not a genuine reaction to Tom or Kary. Due to this, I am unvoting and have my vote on Soup in spirit. His claim was pre-mature and Soup has not been productive all game, which does not match the alignment of town.

Unvote

 

[#HBC | Kary]

1) his claim. whether we like it or not, the pros to keeping him around for AT LEAST another Day phase severely outweigh the cons. tbh i think itd be such an absurd gamble to have scums rolecop be the one that claims town oracle and risk being cc’d. he also did it with DAYS before the deadline and at L-3. thats bad timing for scum to pull that out and take that risk. there was also enough time for him to have finessed the lynch and thrown it elsewhere. and objectively, lets say town isnt convinced of him being town by toMorrow. the possibility of having a clear is ****ing raw and all we have to do is delay the lynch by a Day and hes either town and gets a result, town and gets none (showing theres an rb), town and he dies at Night giving us a result based on NAR (but that IS highly doubtful), or hes scum and theres DEFINITELY enough people who want him dead.

I just have two comments on this:
1. I don't know why we're debating whether soup is a rolecop, I think soup wanting to live is a good enough reason for him to fake a claim as any mafia role.
2. I'm pretty sure he was at L-2, with myself, Kevin, Ryker, Lore and Fandangox being the waggon. His claim comes immediately after Fand's vote.

 

[Tom]

Look, there's only two votes on Lore right now and that's mine and Ryker's.

I disagree with a lynching an Oracle claim before they can feasibly make a target.

If this means Orange is the lynch by default I'm so okay with it.

If others want to load up a Lore wagon, now is the time.

8 hours remain.

 

[ranmaru]

what gave you the impression that frozens entrance was hot fire? whatd you like so much about it?

Did soup ever answer this

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Unvote

I am fine with continuing the Soup lynch for a plethora of reasons, but I don't want this wagon anywhere close to hammer time until we hear from everyone on the wagon why they are OK with risking a PR lynch.

I personally believe that his inconsistency in his defense ("I didn't realize vote count" to "saying I didn't know post count was part of the joke" then back to saying it was just a mistake), his blow up, and his lack of scum hunting make him feel like scum going for damage control to me.

I'd like to hear similar confirmations from every wagon person that they are OK with the risk before I hop back on. This is not a lynch where lazily just keeping the vote on is OK.

I feel like this post aged really poorly?

 

[Tom]

ranmaru
#HBC | ѕoup
#HBC | marshy
OrangeXhtml
KevinM
#HBC | Kary
Lore
#HBC | Ryker
Pythag
Fandangox
#HBC | Gorf
#HBC | FrozeηFlame

 

[#HBC | marshy]

i feel like lore went hella quiet during the soup debacle and has done nothing but tunnel soup since then. his narrow scope concerns me and reads like scum tunneled on someone hanging themselves. he posted but theres lack an oomph to his posts that my eyes just glaze over. if soup flips town id prolly clap him. but if soup is scum then id hav to read over their ****

 

[#HBC | marshy]

also

if oracles **** goes thru before a kill then one idea is to lynch lore/spak then blast soup if we hav a vig. it clears up the wagons while still getting soups oracle result

 

[KevinM]

Its kind of why I think it has to be soup or lore.. they both make it tomorrow what do we do on a potential mislynch today?

Now we're 50/50 on D2 where we could be looking at a pretty accelerated LYLO path.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Marshy ask me questions

what do you want to do? are you going to make a push?

i see your vote on lore and tagging ppl but like. wheres the push at doe. if you had control what would you do? ive been waiting a bit to see if youd commit hard to anything but deadlines here and i dont see a decision

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Hello yes I would like to play but I have a problem right now

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Y'all gonna complain about my playstyle, this is your chance to ask me things and I will do my best to answer you tomorrow daytime.

are you lowkey an undercover weeb?

the k pop links n avy make me think so but youve got this edgy persona thing goin that weebs usually dont rock

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

a) show me the post because your description is deeply unhelpful.

b) you went from being "indecisive" on Spak (#379) to basically singing his praises (#457, #460)

a)

Kary -

Call it OMGUS, Call it '**** you', whatever. Do not like Kary's play this game at the slightest. I think Kary plays close to how Ryker plays, but where I give Ryker null and I give Kary scum is that Kary tries to subtle and it backfires. Ryker is unabashedly Ryker while Kary as scum will just be really snide and pretend he knows better than everyone else while failing to explain it. Separate from this however I think Kary's behavior is closest to scum, especially how I'm reading the game. Context matters, it's why I gave it, and he plays closest to how I feel this game is being directed. He picked something easy to hop on and all he has to do is feign ignorance. I probably would be falling for it too had it not be on me. What has Kary done besides mildly interject, make some snide remark, and then continue to keep his vote on me? I don't think the idea of town is that you're self-assured to the point where you never need to answer for your own actions, so the stage is set for you Kary now that I've revealed my hand to reveal yours. Scum.

b) I can be pressured into submission because I'm not that oblivious to others. I think there's a high possibility for me to be wrong at worst I am and it was the right lynch or I wasn't and people will perhaps listen to me more the next day. When it comes to Spak, I did a double-take based on the progression of the thread and how's it moved forward. I don't know why this is hard to understand or seemingly scummy. I genuinely don't think outside of a couple episodes my logic and progression in my reads has been confusing.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

think its ****ing weird that spak doesnt think soup or lore are scum to the point its scummy cuz i dont see a townie thinking like that

by that logic weve done nothing but wagon townies all day. dont feel like thats the case. think weve hit at least one today

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I skimmed Spak's sorta case on Pythag. I think timing is something that I really believe in terms of finding scum. I think what it boils down to is if you believe Pythag's response to come back despite being V/LA is a scum trying to keep suspicion off of them by jotting off a few reads, or Spak is a scum who is trying to push an agenda further so he doesn't die. It seems the majority of you feel the latter.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I think we could get the votes for Soup today, would just need Ryker and Ranmaru to switch over, but I feel like that's a result many people wouldn't like, and is fundamentally letting scum dodge a bullet if soup does happen to be legit. yes they could have a roleblocker for him but that requires them to at least commit some resources towards him. I can see letting him live to tomorrow at least, although this does kind of mess up our momentum.

The Orange slot I really don't like in general. I feel like they've fumbled almost everything they have done this game and it kind of makes me feel like it is the first time Spak has ever been mafia and he has no idea what to be doing. The one thing that gives me pause is that I think it's strange of them to avoid (and by avoid I mean not join or push) the lore/soup waggons if they are scum... but in general Orange is a slot that absolutely deserves to get lynched and so I would be happy to vote them if I didn't have certain other people volunteering themselves instead.

If both Spak and soup are town, frankly, I'm mad, because I don't think that gives me any good leads whatsoever and puts us at poor odds to win this game. For example, I don't think Gorf is bussing Spak, but if Spak is town, I really have no clue on Gorf. His play has essentially just been textbook to me, it's very argument-focused and it's hard for me to actually get a read off of that. I could see him being scum and just positioning himself well.

I don't think Lore is scum, I think he's just a liability. I'm prepared to be wrong on this but I'm just not really sold on it yet. I would love to hear more argument about this because I feel like a lot of people have him in their 'can go' pile but without anything particularly damning.

In fact frankly its a bit weird that after the soup v lore argument, people generally liked soup more, then after soup claimed... seems like there ought to be more of a backlash onto Lore that hasn't really happened?

As I'm typing this and thinking about it, I feel like what we ought to do is disassemble the soup waggon entirely for today and go from there. This current situation doesn't tell us anything. Of course, if Lore is town, again it's going to be tough, but we at least need to stir the pot some at this point.

The other option, is that a few people could turn a corner and start showing their towniness in order that we could build a sufficiently large town circle. Right now I still have a lot of questions on certain slots that aren't easily resolved.

Anyways, Unvote

 

[Tom]

Lynch Lore

I tried to do a neat ISO package and got nothing

I dont like his push for Soup

 

[Pythag]

i feel like lore went hella quiet during the soup debacle and has done nothing but tunnel soup since then. his narrow scope concerns me and reads like scum tunneled on someone hanging themselves. he posted but theres lack an oomph to his posts that my eyes just glaze over. if soup flips town id prolly clap him. but if soup is scum then id hav to read over their ****

Do you view this tunneling as actually scummy?

To me it looks a lot like Lore from previous game. Townie Truly convinced of his own read.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Do you view this tunneling as actually scummy?

To me it looks a lot like Lore from previous game. Townie Truly convinced of his own read.

if soup is town yes

ask yourself how a scum!lore would play that situation. doubt itd b much different from what we saw