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Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

Munomario777

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Power-ups don't provide gameplay, they support it. Power-ups are something you use, and they give you the power to get the job done easier.
Health bars provide gameplay, however. They tell you how much damage you can take. If PP is allowed, then so are health systems, and Mario would be a lot lower, dying in two hits.
The Fire Flower provides the gameplay element of throwing fireballs. Without a Fire Flower, Mario cannot access the gameplay element that is throwing fireballs.
:4robinm: Grima you're welcome
I see. What I'm seeing (after reading Wikia articles) is that
Grima possesses Robin at the beginning, and at the end, if Robin kills Grima, both Grima and Robin cease to exist.
Doesn't really seem like this would mean that Robin can't be killed by anything else, and since we have evidence to the contrary (that being Robin's ability to be killed in gameplay), I'm going to assume that he can be killed.
 
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the king of murder

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I am playing FE:Awakening now and I see spoilers of Robin????? :crazy:Well, you know what time it is for me....



You won't be seeing me for a long time(not that anybody cares, haha)
 
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ShadowLBlue

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Like I said previously, I don't know anything about Xenoblade. What do you mean with that thing? Also where would you put Shulk?
How are you enjoying awakening?

I think I'm about 70% through Xenoblade (which is crazy cause I'm 70 hours in), so hopefully I'll be able to come back and give an idea of his powers after another 30 hours or so. From what I've seen so far though, he's at least high tier 3. His most noticeable traits (I'm being brief here):

Pros:
-can heal nearly half of his health at any time with only an 18 second cool down. Happens quick enough to be useful.
-max level monado speed makes him essentially immune to physical attacks.
-max level monado shield blocks one of any attack.
-Just like in Smash, his sword is freaking big
-not sure how vision's would translate to this game since they are victim to story and gameplay segregation (meaning in cutscenes they show impending doom, but in battle happen randomly, and usually only against moves that would kill), but those would clearly help.

Cons:
-He lacks projectiles
-2 of his best moves require him to hit opponent from a certain angle to work.
-Outside of Pokemon Trainer, he's probably hurt the most by not having access to all (or in his case, any) of his partners.

Also, @ Munomario777 Munomario777 , my only counter to your sonic vs mario thing is he could also counter spin dash by swinging his hammer around him, but obviously that requires precise reflexes against Sonic's speed. Also not buying Sonic's quill's sensing Vanish cap mario, but I don't think either changes he fact Sonic wins somewhat easily vs Mario.

You should do Sonic vs Ganondorf next.
 

Munomario777

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Also, @ Munomario777 Munomario777 , my only counter to your sonic vs mario thing is he could also counter spin dash by swinging his hammer around him, but obviously that requires precise reflexes against Sonic's speed. Also not buying Sonic's quill's sensing Vanish cap mario, but I don't think either changes he fact Sonic wins somewhat easily vs Mario.

You should do Sonic vs Ganondorf next.
Your point about the Spin Dash/Hammer is quite true. As for the quills sensing danger, in Sonic and the Secret Rings he senses danger right before a dinosaur breaks through a wall in front of him, which would likely be fatal. Thus, I'm taking it as Sonic's quills sensing any type of danger, even when he can't see it (come to think of it, this may partially explain his superhuman reflexes).

As for Sonic vs. Ganondorf, that's an interesting idea, but I'd need to get a better idea of what Ganondorf is actually capable of before I delved into that.
 

the king of murder

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How are you enjoying awakening?
Fantastic game. I really love it and I am definitely going to buy the new Fire Emblem as well. I am currently in chapter 13.
I just hate, how I had to kill Mustafa
Also, what should I reclass/promote Cordelia and Gregor? I am not sure which is the best. I am also trying to level up some horribly underleveled units, any tips?

@ Munomario777 Munomario777 Here is a list I did some pages ago about Ganon.
-invincibility on anything that is not holy(in OOT final battle you can use only use the Master Sword to finish him off. Element Arrows, Dins Fire, Bombs, Hammer, Biggoron Sword, which is actually a lot stronger than the Master Sword ect cannot do anything to him in the last round. In Wind Waker Waker, the firebreath of Valoo, who is a powerful dragon and the unblessed Master Sword didnt even do a scratch to him and in TP any other weapon than the Master Sword(and Light Arrows from Zelda I guess) wont scratch him as well
-immortality(kinda debatable)
-godlike strength(broke free from heavy chains in TP and kills a sage with his bare hands , opened an entrance in the pyramid in ALTTP with brute strength, has a punch that causes the floors to break in OOT, he broke free from the heap of ruins of his castle when the entire castle fell down on him, and he destroys pillars and castles like its not even there in his Ganon form
- in general a powerful magic user and with the Triforce of Power he becomes near god like
- possesses incredibly powerful darkness, fire and lightning magic with a lot of variety i.e large fireballs, fire rings, bat shaped fire attacks, lightning/darkness blast ala Dragon Ball style or Genkidama like attack or straight up lightning ala empereor style (see OOT, ALTTP, Oracle games there are too many to list)
- teleportation (see in TP, ALTTP ect..)
- can travel through dimensions(OOT, TP twilight portal)
- can fly/levitate (OOT,WW, ALTTP ect..)
-can revive other creatures(OOT Volvagia, TP the horseback fight where he summons the undead plus Zant revives a Fossil, who is basically just using Ganondorfs power)
- can freeze things (ask the Zoras how they are doing)
- can possess others (TP(Zelda), ALTTP(Agahnim) though it might not be useful for the more powerful charachters)
- can send/teleport others(see ALTTP,OOT, TP indirectly through Zant)
-can create barriers in multiple forms that either imprison his victims or makes them unable to move( too many games)
-powerful and agile swordsman(WW, TP)
- can transform into a beast form that makes him even more powerful and can crush people with just his size
- can create earthquake like attack that stun his opponent or damage them, might count as super strength as he causes it with his sheer power(oracles, OOT)
- his flame head form in TP that causes an explosion that leveled Hyrule Castle in his fight with Midna(I dont know exactly what it is but it seems to be one of his powers)
- had the entire Triforce in ALTTP (I know this is cheap but we are speaking of full potential here)

I think those things are not everything Ganon could do but the things I listed are the most important. Also his feats are nothing to laugh at
-conquerd and ruled Hyrule aka the world for 7 years without Link to stop him
- after breaking the seal, Ganon went on a rampage in the adult timeline and the Gods had to flood the world just to stop him
- conquered an entire dimension in ALTTP aka the sacred realm and transformed it into a dystopia
- destroyed an entire island just to search for Jabun
- defeated/killed Midna who possessed the power of the fused shadows, an artifact so powerful, it had to be sealed away by the gods
- destroyed his castle with his "last dying breath"
- plunged the entire world in enternal darkness(search for endless night in WW) with most of his powers sealed away with most powers sealed away
- in TP he transformed the light world into a twilight zone(okay that was Zants doing but remember that Zant draws his power from Ganondorf)
-actually killed Link in one of the timelines(look up Hyrule Hystoria timeline)
-and of course his endurance feat where he gets slashed by the Master Sword so many times that you cant count anymore, blasted by Light Arrows, gets his own castle to fall on him plus in TP got stabbed in the stomache(or heart) twice by holy swords and he still stood back up and tells them everything they do is useless before he dies while standing.(And in WW he got stabbed in the head, and he still laughs it off) In OOT all Link, Zelda and the Sages could do, was seal him away, which would later result in the WW events.

Some new things to add that I forgot:
-Ganon can the alter space (Oracle games, OOT, TP indirectly through Zant)
-powerful weapons-->(Trident, two handed swords ect..)

Personally, Sonic vs Ganon is a tie for me.
 
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ShadowLBlue

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The Fire Flower provides the gameplay element of throwing fireballs. Without a Fire Flower, Mario cannot access the gameplay element that is throwing fireballs.

I see. What I'm seeing (after reading Wikia articles) is that
Grima possesses Robin at the beginning, and at the end, if Robin kills Grima, both Grima and Robin cease to exist.
Doesn't really seem like this would mean that Robin can't be killed by anything else, and since we have evidence to the contrary (that being Robin's ability to be killed in gameplay), I'm going to assume that he can be killed.
I've played Awakening and can confirm Robin is definitely able to be killed (as is Grima), and btw is NOT a dark god. Or any kind of god. That guy is like the 5th person to make that mistake.

IDK how to do spoiler tags so I'm just going to post this instead:

************FIRE EMBLEM AWAKENING SPOILERS*******

Evil Robin from the future is a god; regular Robin merely has the potential to be one. Grima also isn't immortal; he can be killed by normal means, it would just be extremely difficult unless you have a divine weapon or a dragon slaying one. If he's not killed by Robin, he'll merely turn to bones and sleep for a millenia, which would count as a loss in this hypothetical situation.

************FIRE EMBLEM AWAKENING SPOILERS ENDED*******

As for Robin's ranking, I've said before he's high tier 3 at worst and probably more like mid-tier 2. Aversa's night hits hard and replenishes half of Robin's HP. Combined with sol, every other attack will fully heal Robin. For simplicity's sake, let's say Vantage works like Shulk's vision's except only at 50% of his health or less and guarantees he'll get first attack attempt.
His weakness would be he's got average speed (meaning he's vulnerable to really fast characters) and doesn't have any spells for defense.
So basically his game is all about staying out of range and stealing your HP to replenish his. He also has book of Naga as a means of dealing with Ganondorf.
Off the top of my head, Sonic, both Pits, Palutena, and Samus should definitely be above him. Ness, Pokemon Trainer, Ganondorf and Kirby are debatable.

Your point about the Spin Dash/Hammer is quite true. As for the quills sensing danger, in Sonic and the Secret Rings he senses danger right before a dinosaur breaks through a wall in front of him, which would likely be fatal. Thus, I'm taking it as Sonic's quills sensing any type of danger, even when he can't see it (come to think of it, this may partially explain his superhuman reflexes).

As for Sonic vs. Ganondorf, that's an interesting idea, but I'd need to get a better idea of what Ganondorf is actually capable of before I delved into that.
Sounds fair enough, referring to Sonic's quill thing.

And it was a long way back, but me and I believe the king of murder have both done long lists of Ganondorf's skills and weapons. It was probably like whatever page my 5th to last post (give or take a few) was on. I'll try and dig it up later (not necessarily this week) if I can find it if you don't want to look for it.

NVM, I see king of murder just reposted his list. Just don't forget he can turn intangible for like 3 seconds while on the move.

Fantastic game. I really love it and I am definitely going to buy the new Fire Emblem as well. I am currently in chapter 13.
I just hate, how I had to kill Mustafa
Also, what should I reclass/promote Cordelia and Gregor? I am not sure which is the best. I am also trying to level up some horribly underleveled units, any tips?
Good to hear.

And Make Cordelia a Dark Flier so she can get the galeforce skill. It lets her move again in a turn if she kills an enemy (but only once per turn.) If you haven't already promoted Sumia, make her a Dark Flier too. And make Gregor a hero. Much, much better than a bow knight, especially since hero's get the Sol skill (heals half of hp dealt).

And how many units are you using? The average amount you can bring in is like 10-16, so hopefully you're not spreading your exp too thin. But if you need to level up, you have 3 options:
1) Give a strong unit a weak weapon so they will fatally wound but not kill an enemy, and let the underleveled unit finish it off.
2) Buy reeking boxes and use the above strategy
3) Buy the golden DLC ($6) and play exponential growth. If you plan on playing any post-game, I'd recommend that anyway though. Just don't abuse it during the game or you'll end up overleveled.

3 other tips:
1) IF you haven't already, get Anna (i believe from paralouge 4). Unlike your other healers, she can take care of herself in battle.
2) Be aware of reinforcements in chapter 16. VERY aware.
3) Don't rush to get the children during the main game; you'll either wind up with an over leveled party or children who have possibly inherited lackluster skills.
 

Munomario777

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@ ShadowLBlue ShadowLBlue , use the same thing as quotes but replace "quote" with "spoiler" to use the spoilers.

EDIT: :4greninja:'d

Anyway, I'll do Sonic vs. Ganondorf sometime soon, but first I'm working on a moveset for Make Your Move.
 
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the king of murder

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Good to hear.

And Make Cordelia a Dark Flier so she can get the galeforce skill. It lets her move again in a turn if she kills an enemy (but only once per turn.) If you haven't already promoted Sumia, make her a Dark Flier too. And make Gregor a hero. Much, much better than a bow knight, especially since hero's get the Sol skill (heals half of hp dealt).

And how many units are you using? The average amount you can bring in is like 10-16, so hopefully you're not spreading your exp too thin.
I managed to avoid the spoilers, whew*.

Thanks for the tips.
Yeah, I do have a core unit but I want to aim for certain pair ups, which involves certain high leveled units pairing with my underleveld ones.
 

Burruni

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If we're going to discuss "canonical" power, we come down to about 5 "top contenders."

:4ganondorf:: Infused with the raw power of one of the three deities that crafted the world. Only defeated by very specific items of divine-infused power (Light Arrows, Silver Arrows, Master Sword). Controls immense physical power, magic, speed (WW Ganondorf is a fatass who rolls around faster than Link himself). "It is written that only Link can defeat Ganon."

:4kirby:: Has faced entities on levl of gods, turning a myriad of attacks into his own arsenal. Depends on how strictly you wish to use his "control" over powers (Milkyway Wishes instant swapping).

:4samus:: While not having some of the raw arsenal of :4megaman:, with a fully empowered suit she has: Power Bombs which can decimate entire caverns in one explosion, near-immunity to intense temperatures (spending minutes in lava), insane resistance (being able to take dozens of slashes from Ridley's massive claws), and the raw power of her Power Beam and various forms of Missiles. Also... shinesparks. Super-human agility and athletic ability for navigation. Certainly requires notice.

:4shulk:: Healing, Stat buffs, limited visions of future attacks, and a sword of pure life force that can extend out the length of a family's home. Basically :4myfriends: or :4robinm::4robinf:'s combat history with more direct skills and a canonically stronger weapon.

:4sonic:: Blinding speed, incredibly adaptive (learned swordsmanship in a day), and... well... Super Sonic being a limited-invicible form that has slain godly beasts about as often as :4mario:'s been blue-balled out of rescuing :4peach: from :4bowser:.
 

Alotoaxolotls

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Since Kirby is canonically known to be able to survive the explosion of stars without a scratch, punch entire planets in half, destroy cosmic horrors (while being 8 inches tall, mind you), and possessed of an infinite pocket dimension within his stomach, I think it is safe to assume that he is at least top tier.
(:kirbymelee:=Hide yo kids)

Also, since Meta-Knight is theorized to be of the same species as Kirby and has demonstrated the same level of indestructiblenessability (the most that has ever happened to him is having his mask break), is the greatest warrior in the galaxy (In the Super Super Star Ultra sub-game Meta Knightmare Ultra, he is able to defeat Galacta Knight, the one whom Nova states is "the greatest warrior in the galaxy"), possesses super OP weaponry, such as a cape capable of manipulating space, and a sword crafted by a race of light and a fire god, and is capable of swinging said sword at uber fast speeds, I personally think M. Knight Shyamalan is even stronger than Kirby
(:metaknight:=Hide yo galaxy)

just my two cents
 
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Nerdicon

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As for Robin's ranking, I've said before he's high tier 3 at worst and probably more like mid-tier 2. Aversa's night hits hard and replenishes half of Robin's HP. Combined with sol, every other attack will fully heal Robin. For simplicity's sake, let's say Vantage works like Shulk's vision's except only at 50% of his health or less and guarantees he'll get first attack attempt.
His weakness would be he's got average speed (meaning he's vulnerable to really fast characters) and doesn't have any spells for defense.
So basically his game is all about staying out of range and stealing your HP to replenish his. He also has book of Naga as a means of dealing with Ganondorf.
Off the top of my head, Sonic, both Pits, Palutena, and Samus should definitely be above him. Ness, Pokemon Trainer, Ganondorf and Kirby are debatable.
Wheel Kirby destroys Robin because Robin doesn't have access to any spikes (Swords don't count). So Robin literally can't win because Kirby is invincible. There's also Mirror Kirby who can create a near endless army of Mirror Kirbies which by the way has an invincible block that reflects projectiles, a giant blade for cutting, and a short ranged projectile. Also Hypernova could completely strip Robin of all his weapons.
 

Kirby Dragons

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I still disagree with the PP. Power-ups are in no way a game mechanic. Game mechanics are constructs of rules, and power-ups are in no way constructs of rules.

Yes, there are instances of running out of PP in the anime, but there are also instances of turn-based fighting, a mechanic that draws back all the other RPG characters, like Robin. So if we go with limit points, we also have to go with turns.

This doesn't make sense, however. In EarthBound, after Ness swings his bat, he can't attack again until everyone else does something. Would there really be something preventing him from attacking again?

And listen to this. Jigglypuff has a move called Pound where he punches the opponent. Pound has PP. Does that mean he can't use it anymore after he runs out of it?

No, it doesn't! Jigglypuff has a fist, he can punch his opponent whenever he wants to. Same thing goes for other moves. If you have the ability to breathe fire, you wouldn't actually lose it just because you use it a few times.

PP is a rule of the Pokémon games, not an actual fight that a Pokémon gets into.
 

Nerdicon

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I still disagree with the PP. Power-ups are in no way a game mechanic. Game mechanics are constructs of rules, and power-ups are in no way constructs of rules.

Yes, there are instances of running out of PP in the anime, but there are also instances of turn-based fighting, a mechanic that draws back all the other RPG characters, like Robin. So if we go with limit points, we also have to go with turns.

This doesn't make sense, however. In EarthBound, after Ness swings his bat, he can't attack again until everyone else does something. Would there really be something preventing him from attacking again?

And listen to this. Jigglypuff has a move called Pound where he punches the opponent. Pound has PP. Does that mean he can't use it anymore after he runs out of it?

No, it doesn't! Jigglypuff has a fist, he can punch his opponent whenever he wants to. Same thing goes for other moves. If you have the ability to breathe fire, you wouldn't actually lose it just because you use it a few times.

PP is a rule of the Pokémon games, not an actual fight that a Pokémon gets into.
The difference is turn-based gameplay is just that: gameplay. It's a gameplay mechanic and not necessarily a rule of that world. There are instances in the anime of one Pokémon using more than one move at a time. While PP is shown in both the games and anime and while the decision may have been made for gameplay purposes, it's still a part of the world. My favorite example would be the morph ball. Is the morph ball just a game mechanic? Or is it an inherent part of the character because of a gameplay mechanic/hardware limitation? So yes I feel if Mewtwo ran out of PP he could float over and smack someone, but he couldn't just use psychic until the end of time.
 

Munomario777

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I still disagree with the PP. Power-ups are in no way a game mechanic. Game mechanics are constructs of rules, and power-ups are in no way constructs of rules.
Also:
Wikipedia's page on power-ups said:
In video games, power-ups are objects that instantly benefit or add extra abilities to the game character as a game mechanic.
Plus this:
Wikipedia's page on game mechanics which you also quoted said:
Key game mechanic categories
[...]
Game modes
[...]
Changing modes while the game is ongoing can be used as a means to increase difficulty and provide additional challenge, or as a reward for player success. Power-ups are modes that last for a few moments or that change only one or a few game rules; for example power pellets in Pac-Man give the temporary ability to eat the enemies for a few seconds.
Yes, there are instances of running out of PP in the anime, but there are also instances of turn-based fighting, a mechanic that draws back all the other RPG characters, like Robin. So if we go with limit points, we also have to go with turns.
Turn-based combat is a gameplay style (in the same way that a platformer is). Power-ups are a gameplay mechanic within a game (or part thereof) of a certain gameplay style (in the same way that PP are within the turn-based game called Pokemon). This thread is about taking characters and the mechanics associated therewith and putting them in a universal "gameplay style", which is really just the characters meeting and battling, no holds barred.
This doesn't make sense, however. In EarthBound, after Ness swings his bat, he can't attack again until everyone else does something. Would there really be something preventing him from attacking again?
Again, gameplay style =/= gameplay mechanic. Moving on.
And listen to this. Jigglypuff has a move called Pound where he punches the opponent. Pound has PP. Does that mean he can't use it anymore after he runs out of it?

No, it doesn't! Jigglypuff has a fist, he can punch his opponent whenever he wants to. Same thing goes for other moves. If you have the ability to breathe fire, you wouldn't actually lose it just because you use it a few times.
Jigglypuff could punch the opponent, but it wouldn't be the same move that is called "Pound"; the PP for that move is gone, and gameplay rules dictate that Jigglypuff cannot use that move again. It makes sense that many of the Pokemon moves would have such limits; the fire breath you brought up is a good example. Fire is energy, and energy is limited. That energy is represented by PP. Likewise, punching takes energy, and energy is limited. That energy is represented by PP. A PP-refilling item is, in a way, like an energy drink; it gives the Pokemon energy.
PP is a rule of the Pokémon games, not an actual fight that a Pokémon gets into.
More like a limitation on the Pokemons' (Pokemen? Pokepeople? You get what I mean.) physical stamina.
 

Nerdicon

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Anyways, I should probably bring up that Robin can't use all his skills in one class, and that he has to switch around using a seal.
What the heck, give him all his possible skills. There are plenty of other what-if scenarios created for these characters to bring them to their full potential
 

Munomario777

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:4sonic:VS:4ganondorf:
FIGHT!!!
First off, I'd like to thank @ the king of murder the king of murder for compiling this convenient list of Ganondorf's abilities for me to use:
@ Munomario777 Munomario777 Here is a list I did some pages ago about Ganon.
-invincibility on anything that is not holy(in OOT final battle you can use only use the Master Sword to finish him off. Element Arrows, Dins Fire, Bombs, Hammer, Biggoron Sword, which is actually a lot stronger than the Master Sword ect cannot do anything to him in the last round. In Wind Waker Waker, the firebreath of Valoo, who is a powerful dragon and the unblessed Master Sword didnt even do a scratch to him and in TP any other weapon than the Master Sword(and Light Arrows from Zelda I guess) wont scratch him as well
-immortality(kinda debatable)
-godlike strength(broke free from heavy chains in TP and kills a sage with his bare hands , opened an entrance in the pyramid in ALTTP with brute strength, has a punch that causes the floors to break in OOT, he broke free from the heap of ruins of his castle when the entire castle fell down on him, and he destroys pillars and castles like its not even there in his Ganon form
- in general a powerful magic user and with the Triforce of Power he becomes near god like
- possesses incredibly powerful darkness, fire and lightning magic with a lot of variety i.e large fireballs, fire rings, bat shaped fire attacks, lightning/darkness blast ala Dragon Ball style or Genkidama like attack or straight up lightning ala empereor style (see OOT, ALTTP, Oracle games there are too many to list)
- teleportation (see in TP, ALTTP ect..)
- can travel through dimensions(OOT, TP twilight portal)
- can fly/levitate (OOT,WW, ALTTP ect..)
-can revive other creatures(OOT Volvagia, TP the horseback fight where he summons the undead plus Zant revives a Fossil, who is basically just using Ganondorfs power)
- can freeze things (ask the Zoras how they are doing)
- can possess others (TP(Zelda), ALTTP(Agahnim) though it might not be useful for the more powerful charachters)
- can send/teleport others(see ALTTP,OOT, TP indirectly through Zant)
-can create barriers in multiple forms that either imprison his victims or makes them unable to move( too many games)
-powerful and agile swordsman(WW, TP)
- can transform into a beast form that makes him even more powerful and can crush people with just his size
- can create earthquake like attack that stun his opponent or damage them, might count as super strength as he causes it with his sheer power(oracles, OOT)
- his flame head form in TP that causes an explosion that leveled Hyrule Castle in his fight with Midna(I dont know exactly what it is but it seems to be one of his powers)
- had the entire Triforce in ALTTP (I know this is cheap but we are speaking of full potential here)

I think those things are not everything Ganon could do but the things I listed are the most important. Also his feats are nothing to laugh at
-conquerd and ruled Hyrule aka the world for 7 years without Link to stop him
- after breaking the seal, Ganon went on a rampage in the adult timeline and the Gods had to flood the world just to stop him
- conquered an entire dimension in ALTTP aka the sacred realm and transformed it into a dystopia
- destroyed an entire island just to search for Jabun
- defeated/killed Midna who possessed the power of the fused shadows, an artifact so powerful, it had to be sealed away by the gods
- destroyed his castle with his "last dying breath"
- plunged the entire world in enternal darkness(search for endless night in WW) with most of his powers sealed away with most powers sealed away
- in TP he transformed the light world into a twilight zone(okay that was Zants doing but remember that Zant draws his power from Ganondorf)
-actually killed Link in one of the timelines(look up Hyrule Hystoria timeline)
-and of course his endurance feat where he gets slashed by the Master Sword so many times that you cant count anymore, blasted by Light Arrows, gets his own castle to fall on him plus in TP got stabbed in the stomache(or heart) twice by holy swords and he still stood back up and tells them everything they do is useless before he dies while standing.(And in WW he got stabbed in the head, and he still laughs it off) In OOT all Link, Zelda and the Sages could do, was seal him away, which would later result in the WW events.

Some new things to add that I forgot:
-Ganon can the alter space (Oracle games, OOT, TP indirectly through Zant)
-powerful weapons-->(Trident, two handed swords ect..)

Personally, Sonic vs Ganon is a tie for me.

Additionally, here's a list I compiled of Sonic's abilities:

So, I thought I'd just make a comprehensive guide to Sonic's abilities, for future reference.

Speed
Sonic's most notable, consistent, and famous trait is his superhuman (or superhedgehog, as it were) speed. As his name implies, Sonic is able to run faster than the speed of sound. Additionally, in the Sonic Adventure DX manual, he is stated to be "the world's fastest, hypersonic hedgehog," "hypersonic" being speeds ranging from 3,840 mph to 7,680 mph. In fact, in Sonic Unleashed, it's hinted that Sonic can run far beyond the speed of light, since the Light Speed Dash (more on this move later) clocks in at 396 SPD, while Sonic's running speed clocks in at above 2,800 SPD. This speed allows him to scale vertical surfaces as well as wall-run horizontally, and he can also run on the surface of water. He can also run as fast backwards as he can forwards. Despite this speed, however, he can turn very sharply at top speed, and almost never misses his target, since he has reflexes to match his speed. The Drift and the Quick Step can also help him maneuver at high speed. His super speed has other applications as well. For instance, Sonic can heal himself by vibrating his molecules very quickly, he can create shockwaves, and he can create an Insta-Shield made of speed energy for a split second to pierce enemy defenses.

Physical Abilities
In addition to his super speed, Sonic also possesses a great amount of agility, being able to dodge nearly anything thrown at him. He can jump several hundred feet in the air, and possesses many jumping techniques, such as a short hop, Spin Jump, Wall Jump, Triangle Jump, double jump, and more midair techniques. He also has great control over his movement, able to dodge attacks swiftly and gracefully despite their incoming speed and his own current velocity. While he may not be quite as physically strong as his friend Knuckles, Sonic still possesses superhuman strength. He can push large objects with ease, and he can lift objects much larger than he is while still running at top speed. His Spin attacks are also very powerful, but they'll be getting their own section. Most of his physical attacks involve kicks rather than punches, since his legs are where his true power lies, between his kicks and his running. For instance, the Stomp can crush many surfaces and defeat many foes, and in Sonic Adventure 2, he was able to topple the huge Egg Golem with just one kick. In addition, Sonic has been shown to be able to tough it through many dangers. He can survive crossfire from all angles, he can smash through several robots with his fist without showing any signs of pain, and most impressively, he can survive atmospheric reentry, doing so on many occasions throughout the series. He also possesses a great amount of willpower, shown in Sonic Unleashed when he keeps his head when under Dark Gaia's influence. This also allows him to keep fighting even when the situation seems bleak and hopeless, and even if he does get mind controlled, it's safe to say that he will do everything in his power to get his head back. Contrary to popular belief, Sonic can swim by using his Spin Jump repeatedly in water, but he still can't breathe while submerged, needing to come up for air eventually (unless using certain power-ups listed below).

Techniques and Moves/Miscellaneous
Besides his running speed, Sonic's signature technique is his ability to curl up into a spiky, spinning ball to attack opponents. In Sonic Heroes, this attack can break through the entire Egg Fleet without even moving at the speed of sound. He can perform this attack when jumping, rolling along the ground, homing in on enemies with the Homing Attack, rocketing downward and bouncing off the ground with the Bounce Bracelet, and revving up with the Spin Dash, allowing him to rocket off at top speed from a standstill. The Spin Attack also allows him to burrow through the ground, depending on how soft it is. The Light Speed Dash has him him dashing along a line of Rings at light speed, and the Light Speed Attack combines this with the Homing Attack to create an extremely powerful strike. The Blue Tornado has him running in circles and creating a whirlwind to throw opponents, defenses, or weapons into the air, and he can concentrate this wind into a blade to fire at his opponents with the Sonic Wind. The Boost allows him to create a blue aura of pure speed (or wind, whatever floats your boat) to blast through opponents at top speed without taking any damage. This move can also be used in midair, allowing him to rocket forward without even touching the ground. Sonic can also apparently control how hard his quills are, since they appear sort of floppy normally, but in his spinball form, they're razor-sharp. This is also demonstrated in his Up Smash in Smash Brothers. His quills can also sense danger, as shown in Sonic and the Secret Rings. Sonic is also very skilled at riding Extreme Gear (super-fast hoverboards), taking on the world's champion in the field, and then even defeating Metal Sonic, who had copied all the data, skills, and techniques from the top Extreme Gear riders in the world. He can also transfer his speed to other objects, shown when he propels mining platforms forward in Sonic Generations's Planet Wisp stage. Sonic has also been shown to be extremely skilled at swordfighting, defeating the Knights of the Round Table and even King Arthur himself in Sonic and the Black Knight when wielding the legendary sword Caliburn (which later becomes Excalibur).

Items/Power-ups
Sonic's first power-ups are the Shields. The basic Shield allows him to take an extra hit, but he also has the Elemental Shields, which block a hit like the normal one does, but with added bonuses. The Bubble Shield grants Sonic a bounce attack and lets him breathe underwater, as well as deflecting minor projectiles. The Electric Shield allows Sonic to double jump, blocks small projectiles, and negates electric attacks, but goes away upon contact with water. The Fire Shield gives Sonic a midair dash attack and protects him from fire attacks, but can't touch water without being extinguished.

In Sonic 2006, Sonic obtains special shoes called the Custom Shoes at the beginning of the game. He can then buy upgrades for these special shoes known as Gems (not to be confused with the Chaos Emeralds, which I'll get into later on), of which there are eight. These Gems grant Sonic different abilities, listed below:
- The Blue Gem gives Sonic a speed boost that allows Sonic to reach top speed instantly
- The Green Gem creates a tornado that can be used to attack enemies
- The Purple Gem shrinks Sonic, allowing him to slip through tight areas, as well as jump infinitely
- The Red Gem slows down time, useful for sneaking past enemies in combination to Sonic's natural speed
- The Sky Gem can be thrown, and when it lands, it draws Sonic towards it like a tractor beam
- The White Gem allows Sonic to levitate in place in mid-air to control his direction more easily and enhance his Homing Attack
- The Yellow Gem gives Sonic a Thunder Shield, but without a double-jump
- A mysterious eighth "Rainbow Gem" from the beta versions of the game, the purpose of which is unknown

In addition, the alien power-ups known as Wisps grant him different Color Power transformations, such as:
- A laser that can pierce through enemies and obstacles, as well as bouncing off surfaces
- A drill that can burrow through soft material and damage enemies/obstacles, as well as giving better underwater mobility and underwater breath
- A rocket that can shoot up into the sky, as well as breaking obstacles and harming enemies
- A spiked ball that can cling onto walls/ceilings, as well as breaking obstacles and harming enemies
- A cube that sends out a shockwave that damages enemies and obstacles, as well as toggling blue rings/blocks
- A hovering green thing that can fly through the air, as well as harm enemies
- A nightmarish giant chomping head thing that grows in size when it eats things, such as obstacles and enemies
- A black hole that can fly, as well as sucking in obstacles and enemies
- A fireball that can fly with explosions, as well as blowing up obstacles and enemies
- A different black hole that creates an asteroid belt with the enemies and obstacles it sucks up, as well as jumping higher with a bigger belt
- An eagle that can soar through the skies, as well as attacking obstacles and enemies
- A music note that can... flop around. (And damage obstacles and enemies!)
- A lightning bolt that can move very quickly and travel through conductive substances, as well as attacking obstacles and enemies
- An iron ball that can climb walls, as well as creating shockwaves when it lands, damaging obstacles and enemies
- A bomb that can explode on obstacles and enemies

Now, this is where he really starts to get impressive.

Chaos Powers
The seven Chaos Emeralds are the most powerful artifacts in the Sonic universe, containing ultimate power when combined. Luckily for Sonic, he has access to all seven of them. Using these gems, he can freeze time, slow down time, teleport, and use other Chaos Powers. However, these all pale in comparison to Sonic's ultimate transformation:

Super Sonic Style!
Combining all of the Chaos Emeralds along with fifty Rings (of which he can hold up to 999 30,000, or possibly 999,999; see Sonic Adventure 2 Battle's Chao Garden), Sonic can transform into Super Sonic, turning golden and gaining a golden aura. He gains the ability to fly, becomes practically invincible (except to crushing, drowning, and falling into bottomless pits), and becomes even faster, being able to move at the speed of light. Sonic can jump higher, has increased reflexes to match his increased speed, and becomes much stronger, being able to smash through robots, barriers, and space fleets with his face! He also possesses a reflective shield, waves of destructive golden energy, and the Super Sonic Boost, which is similar to the regular Boost, but faster and more powerful. Of course, this form also allows Sonic to use the aforementioned Chaos Powers, since both use the Chaos Emeralds. The only real limitation to this form is the fact that Sonic needs Rings to maintain this form, and it drains one Ring every second he remains in the transformation. However, as mentioned above, Sonic's maximum Ring count is 999 (see above strikethrough note) Rings, which would allow him to stay in this form for about 16 minutes eight hours and twenty minutes going with the 30,000 count, or about 11 days with the 999,999 count. This is plenty for someone of Sonic's speed to finish a battle. Even if he runs out of Rings before the battle is over, he still has numerous backup transformations, such as:
- Hyper Sonic, obtained by harnessing the power of the Super Emeralds (Chaos Emeralds + Master Emerald) and 50 Rings. Basically Super Sonic, but with enhanced abilities and a screen nuke. Used sparingly.
- Darkspine Sonic, obtained by harnessing the World Rings of rage, hatred, and sadness. Grants flight, greater strength, unlimited Soul Gauge powers (which are increased speed with Speed Break and slowing down time with Time Break), and pyrokinetic abilities.
- Excalibur Sonic, obtained using the power of the four sacred swords. Grants flight, a golden suit of armor, a red cape, and the ability to wield the legendary sword Excalibur.
- Sonic the Werehog, induced by Dark Gaia's negative energy. Loses his trademark speed, but retains his agility and gains super strength, stretchy arms, and limited energy manipulation.
- The aforementioned Color Powers granted by the Wisps.

All in all, with his speed, agility, strength, willpower, and Super Sonic, Sonic is truly a force to be reckoned with, able to adapt to almost any situation thrown at him. However, he rarely shows his true potential except when he's in truly dire situations. As said by the Blue Blur himself, "An adventure's no fun if it's too easy!"

Feats
- Defeated several god monsters, such as Dark Gaia, Solaris, the Time Eater, the Biolizard (AKA the ultimate life form), and even singlehandedly defeated Perfect Chaos, which harnessed the power of the Chaos Emeralds, in his normal form
- Foiled Dr. Robotnik/Eggman's plans, from enslaving five entire planets with a space amusement park in order to mind control the world to erasing time and space itself
- Won the Extreme Gear tournaments and even defeated a robot which harnessed the skills of the world's top Gear riders
- Defeated King Arthur himself at swordfighting
- Defeated Ultimate Emerl, who had the abilities of every character in the game as well as the raw power of all seven Chaos Emeralds, in his normal form
- Travelled through time on multiple occasions
- A bunch of stuff that I'm probably forgetting

Source
The Sonic News Network (Sonic Wiki)

First off, some rules:
  • The battlefield is a ten-mile-wide square arena, with a solid concrete floor and infinitely thick and infinitely high solid steel walls; nothing comes in, nothing comes out.
  • No ally assistance is allowed here.
  • No time travel, teleportation, etc. to escape; if a combatant is absent from the arena for more than ten seconds of normal time, they forfeit the match.
  • Limited-use attacks, techniques, etc. cannot be used to counter attacks that can be used more than them (for instance, if Sonic used a one-time-use Shield to protect against one of Ganondorf's punch attacks, he could simply punch again after the Shield was destroyed and thus Sonic would have to do something different; thus, I will be skipping to the second time).
  • All items, techniques, attacks, etc. the character has used are compiled here.
With the ground rules out of the way, let's get right into this versus! First up, Ganondorf is on the offensive!

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Brute Strength to Punch Things
Ganondorf possesses immense physical strength, breaking free from heavy chains, punching floors to break them, and destroying entire pillars and castles like it ain't no thing. This could definitely be directed into a hedgehog-bound punching or kicking attack.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Sonic Speed!/Chaos Control
Sonic's superhuman speed (surpassing that of Mach 10/the speed of light with certain attacks) and reflexes to match would definitely allow Sonic to dodge Ganondorf's attacks and perform a counterattack (I'll get to that when Sonic goes on the offensive). Alternatively, Sonic can teleport with Chaos Control to dodge attacks.

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: A Bunch of Magic Attacks
Ganondorf's magic attacks include large fireballs, fire rings, bat shaped fire attacks, lightning/darkness blasts, and normal lightning bolts.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Sonic Speed!/Fire Shield/Lightning Shield
Aside from dodging the attacks with his speed or Chaos Control, Sonic can also use the Fire Shield and Lightning Shield to ignore any fire or lightning attacks respectively. If he really wants to be fancy, he could even jump through the fire rings!

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Plain, Simple Flight
Ganondorf can fly to attack from the air and stay away from Sonic's own attacks.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Extreme Gear
Sonic can use his Extreme Gear (a hoverboard type thing) to fly into the air and attack Ganondorf. Alternatively, he could go all Super Sonic on him (which I will get to later).

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Freezing People in a Bunch of Ice
Ganondorf can freeze objects and opponents in ice to prevent movement.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Willpower/Darkspine Sonic
Sonic's extreme willpower allows him to retain consciousness and stay calm even when situations look bleak. He can stay aware of things even when mind controlled, so a bit of ice shouldn't be too much to hinder this. While conscious, he could activate the World Rings of Rage, Hatred, and Sadness to transform into his Darkspine Sonic form, which possesses pyrokinetic abilities to melt the ice.

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Possessing Innocent People Even Though He's More Powerful Than Them Sometimes
Ganondorf has been shown to possess characters throughout the Zelda series to bend them to his will. However, this likely doesn't work on the stronger minded.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Willpower
As stated above, Sonic has immense willpower, and can retain control even while being possessed by evil magic (he resists the negative influences on his mind in Sonic Unleashed, even when Dark Gaia transforms him physically).

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Teleportation and Such
Ganondorf can teleport not only himself, but also others to any location.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Chaos Control
Sonic can teleport with Chaos Control, as stated above, to teleport back into the arena before the ten second forfeit timer is up.

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Barriers to Make Jails and Stuff
Ganondorf can create barriers to either imprison his opponents or make them unable to move at all.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Chaos Control
Sonic can teleport out of small prisons like this using Chaos Control (shown in Sonic Adventure 2 when he escapes a falling capsule in space using a fake, less powerful Chaos Emerald).

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Swords, Tridents, the Works
Ganondorf has swords, tridents, and other such weapons, and is skilled at using them in combat.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Caliburn
This will come up a bit later, but Sonic is also versed in swordplay, since in Sonic and the Black Knight, he wields the mythical sword called Caliburn with great skill, defeating the Knights of the Round Table and even King Arthur himself!

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: This is... Actually my Final Form
Ganondorf can turn into the pig-esque beast Ganon, growing immensely in size and power, able to crush opponents with his size
:4sonic:'s Attack: Piggyback Ride! :D
Sonic's agility would allow him to hop on top of Ganon for a ride, allowing him to use his spinball form to burrow into Ganon to deal some extra damage.

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Earthquake Via Punching the Ground
Ganondorf can use his brute strength to create an earthquake attack, which can stun and damage opponents.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Jump/Extreme Gear
Sonic could either simply jump over the earthquake or hop on his aforementioned Extreme Gear to hover above the attack.

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Flame Head Explosion of Castle-Flattening Epicness
Ganondorf can turn into a flaming head form and create an explosion with the power to flatten an entire castle.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Flame Shield/Invincibility
Sonic could either use the Flame Shield (which negates all fire/heat-based attacks) or the standard Invincibility power-up to tough it through the explosion.

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Triforces of Power, Wisdom, and Courage
When the three pieces of the Triforce are united, the true Triforce is completed. This ancient relic grants the wishes of whoever touches the artifact.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Wait, Wasn't There an Ancient Prophecy Here Somewhere?
The ancient Triforce prophecy reads, "if a person without an equal balance of power, wisdom, and courage makes a wish, the Triforce will split into its three separate parts: the piece that best personifies the wish-maker will be the only piece to remain in hand, whilst the other two will take residence in whosoever most personifies them." This is shown in Ocarina of Time, when Ganondorf tries to make a wish and this same thing happens. Not only would this rid Ganondorf of the full Triforce, but the pieces could also possibly go into Sonic's possession, and then it would be all over for Ganondorf.

Now that we've got Ganondorf's offenses out of the way, let's move onto Sonic's!

:4sonic:'s Attack: A Bunch of Attacks That Aren't the Ones I'll List Below
Sonic has a bunch of different attacks (see the above summary in the quote).
:4ganondorf:'s Counter: Not Holy = Laugh it Off
Ganondorf is immune to any attack that isn't blessed by the gods, so a lot of Sonic's attacks are thrown out the window here. That said, Sonic does have other options...

:4sonic:'s Attack: Essentially the Master Sword, But With a Golden Suit of Armor and Flight to Boot
I've talked about Sonic's skill in wielding the legendary sword Caliburn, but he can also combine the four sacred swords to become Excalibur Sonic! In addition to wielding the legendary sword Excalibur, this also gives Sonic a golden suit of armor, a red cape, and flight. It's likely that Sonic could finish Ganondorf off with this, since it's a legendary sword like the Master Sword.
:4ganondorf:'s Counter: Not Specifically Holy
However, Excalibur wasn't specifically created by the gods. Thus, it's not 100% certain that this would work. However, that's not all Sonic has in the realm of holy weapons...

:4sonic:'s Attack: Hyper Sonic Style!
Combining the power of the seven Chaos Emeralds with the power of the Master Emerald (this was created by the gods to prevent the Chaos Emeralds from being misused) to create the Super Emeralds, Sonic can turn into Hyper Sonic! This is basically Super Sonic+, with invincibility, increased speed, agility, strength, the works. See the Sonic summary for more information. Anyway, this godly-power-infused transformation would be enough to finish Ganondorf off (especially since Sonic can still perform his other maneuvers while in this form, and with a maximum Ring count of 999,999, he could stay in this form for about eleven days).
:4ganondorf:'s Counter: Not a Holy Weapon
However, the Emeralds aren't specifically holy weapons, and that's all that Ganondorf has ever been killed with.
:4sonic:'s Counter Counter: Hyper Sonic + Excalibur
HOWEVER, Hyper Sonic could still wield the legendary sword Excalibur and infuse this legendary blade with the Emeralds' holy power to create the ultimate Ganondorf-slaying sword. Plus, Super Sonic (and by extension Hyper Sonic) has access to the "Arrow of Light", which has striking similarities to the Light Arrow, which is another of Ganondorf's weaknesses.

SUMMARY
While Ganondorf might have powerful attacks and a very specific weakness, Sonic's speed, agility, transformations, and equally specific strengths are just enough to power through Ganondorf's defenses.
WINNER: :4sonic:

This analysis is part of the bracket
 
Last edited:

Kirby Dragons

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 30, 2014
Messages
5,186
Location
Another Dimension
:4sonic:VS:4ganondorf:
FIGHT!!!
First off, I'd like to thank the king of murder for compiling this convenient list of Ganondorf's abilities for me to use:

Additionally, here's a list I compiled of Sonic's abilities:


First off, some rules:
  • The battlefield is a ten-mile-wide square arena, with a solid concrete floor and infinitely thick and infinitely high solid steel walls; nothing comes in, nothing comes out.
  • No ally assistance is allowed here.
  • No time travel, teleportation, etc. to escape; if a combatant is absent from the arena for more than ten seconds of normal time, they forfeit the match.
  • Limited-use attacks, techniques, etc. cannot be used to counter attacks that can be used more than them (for instance, if Sonic used a one-time-use Shield to protect against one of Ganondorf's punch attacks, he could simply punch again after the Shield was destroyed and thus Sonic would have to do something different; thus, I will be skipping to the second time).
  • All items, techniques, attacks, etc. the character has used are compiled here.
With the ground rules out of the way, let's get right into this versus! First up, Ganondorf is on the offensive!

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Brute Strength to Punch Things
Ganondorf possesses immense physical strength, breaking free from heavy chains, punching floors to break them, and destroying entire pillars and castles like it ain't no thing. This could definitely be directed into a hedgehog-bound punching or kicking attack.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Sonic Speed!/Chaos Control
Sonic's superhuman speed (surpassing that of Mach 10/the speed of light with certain attacks) and reflexes to match would definitely allow Sonic to dodge Ganondorf's attacks and perform a counterattack (I'll get to that when Sonic goes on the offensive). Alternatively, Sonic can teleport with Chaos Control to dodge attacks.

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: A Bunch of Magic Attacks
Ganondorf's magic attacks include large fireballs, fire rings, bat shaped fire attacks, lightning/darkness blasts, and normal lightning bolts.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Sonic Speed!/Fire Shield/Lightning Shield
Aside from dodging the attacks with his speed or Chaos Control, Sonic can also use the Fire Shield and Lightning Shield to ignore any fire or lightning attacks respectively. If he really wants to be fancy, he could even jump through the fire rings!

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Plain, Simple Flight
Ganondorf can fly to attack from the air and stay away from Sonic's own attacks.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Extreme Gear
Sonic can use his Extreme Gear (a hoverboard type thing) to fly into the air and attack Ganondorf. Alternatively, he could go all Super Sonic on him (which I will get to later).

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Freezing People in a Bunch of Ice
Ganondorf can freeze objects and opponents in ice to prevent movement.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Willpower/Darkspine Sonic
Sonic's extreme willpower allows him to retain consciousness and stay calm even when situations look bleak. He can stay aware of things even when mind controlled, so a bit of ice shouldn't be too much to hinder this. While conscious, he could activate the World Rings of Rage, Hatred, and Sadness to transform into his Darkspine Sonic form, which possesses pyrokinetic abilities to melt the ice.

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Possessing Innocent People Even Though He's More Powerful Than Them Sometimes
Ganondorf has been shown to possess characters throughout the Zelda series to bend them to his will. However, this likely doesn't work on the stronger minded.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Willpower
As stated above, Sonic has immense willpower, and can retain control even while being possessed by evil magic (he resists the negative influences on his mind in Sonic Unleashed, even when Dark Gaia transforms him physically).

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Teleportation and Such
Ganondorf can teleport not only himself, but also others to any location.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Chaos Control
Sonic can teleport with Chaos Control, as stated above, to teleport back into the arena before the ten second forfeit timer is up.

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Barriers to Make Jails and Stuff
Ganondorf can create barriers to either imprison his opponents or make them unable to move at all.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Chaos Control
Sonic can teleport out of small prisons like this using Chaos Control (shown in Sonic Adventure 2 when he escapes a falling capsule in space using a fake, less powerful Chaos Emerald).

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Swords, Tridents, the Works
Ganondorf has swords, tridents, and other such weapons, and is skilled at using them in combat.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Caliburn
This will come up a bit later, but Sonic is also versed in swordplay, since in Sonic and the Black Knight, he wields the mythical sword called Caliburn with great skill, defeating the Knights of the Round Table and even King Arthur himself!

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: This is... Actually my Final Form
Ganondorf can turn into the pig-esque beast Ganon, growing immensely in size and power, able to crush opponents with his size
:4sonic:'s Attack: Piggyback Ride! :D
Sonic's agility would allow him to hop on top of Ganon for a ride, allowing him to use his spinball form to burrow into Ganon to deal some extra damage.

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Earthquake Via Punching the Ground
Ganondorf can use his brute strength to create an earthquake attack, which can stun and damage opponents.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Jump/Extreme Gear
Sonic could either simply jump over the earthquake or hop on his aforementioned Extreme Gear to hover above the attack.

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Flame Head Explosion of Castle-Flattening Epicness
Ganondorf can turn into a flaming head form and create an explosion with the power to flatten an entire castle.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Flame Shield/Invincibility
Sonic could either use the Flame Shield (which negates all fire/heat-based attacks) or the standard Invincibility power-up to tough it through the explosion.

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Triforces of Power, Wisdom, and Courage
When the three pieces of the Triforce are united, the true Triforce is completed. This ancient relic grants the wishes of whoever touches the artifact.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Wait, Wasn't There an Ancient Prophecy Here Somewhere?
The ancient Triforce prophecy reads, "if a person without an equal balance of power, wisdom, and courage makes a wish, the Triforce will split into its three separate parts: the piece that best personifies the wish-maker will be the only piece to remain in hand, whilst the other two will take residence in whosoever most personifies them." This is shown in Ocarina of Time, when Ganondorf tries to make a wish and this same thing happens. Not only would this rid Ganondorf of the full Triforce, but the pieces could also possibly go into Sonic's possession, and then it would be all over for Ganondorf.

Now that we've got Ganondorf's offenses out of the way, let's move onto Sonic's!

:4sonic:'s Attack: A Bunch of Attacks That Aren't the Ones I'll List Below
Sonic has a bunch of different attacks (see the above summary in the quote).
:4ganondorf:'s Counter: Not Holy = Laugh it Off
Ganondorf is immune to any attack that isn't blessed by the gods, so a lot of Sonic's attacks are thrown out the window here. That said, Sonic does have other options...

:4sonic:'s Attack: Essentially the Master Sword, But With a Golden Suit of Armor and Flight to Boot
I've talked about Sonic's skill in wielding the legendary sword Caliburn, but he can also combine the four sacred swords to become Excalibur Sonic! In addition to wielding the legendary sword Excalibur, this also gives Sonic a golden suit of armor, a red cape, and flight. It's likely that Sonic could finish Ganondorf off with this, since it's a legendary sword like the Master Sword.
:4ganondorf:'s Counter: Not Specifically Holy
However, Excalibur wasn't specifically created by the gods. Thus, it's not 100% certain that this would work. However, that's not all Sonic has in the realm of holy weapons...

:4sonic:'s Attack: Hyper Sonic Style!
Combining the power of the seven Chaos Emeralds with the power of the Master Emerald (this was created by the gods to prevent the Chaos Emeralds from being misused) to create the Super Emeralds, Sonic can turn into Hyper Sonic! This is basically Super Sonic+, with invincibility, increased speed, agility, strength, the works. See the Sonic summary for more information. Anyway, this godly-power-infused transformation would be enough to finish Ganondorf off (especially since Sonic can still perform his other maneuvers while in this form, and with a maximum Ring count of 999,999, he could stay in this form for about eleven days).
:4ganondorf:'s Counter: Not a Holy Weapon
However, the Emeralds aren't specifically holy weapons, and that's all that Ganondorf has ever been killed with.
:4sonic:'s Counter Counter: Hyper Sonic + Excalibur
HOWEVER, Hyper Sonic could still wield the legendary sword Excalibur and infuse this legendary blade with the Emeralds' holy power to create the ultimate Ganondorf-slaying sword. Plus, Super Sonic (and by extension Hyper Sonic) has access to the "Arrow of Light", which has striking similarities to the Light Arrow, which is another of Ganondorf's weaknesses.

SUMMARY
While Ganondorf might have powerful attacks and a very specific weakness, Sonic's speed, agility, transformations, and equally specific strengths are just enough to power through Ganondorf's defenses.
WINNER: :4sonic:

Who should I do next? Leave a reply with suggestions, and I might even take one of them up! :)
That looks fun. I might actually do some of them myself, if you don't mind.
 

Nerdicon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
339
Location
Planet Pop-Star
:4sonic:VS:4ganondorf:
FIGHT!!!
First off, I'd like to thank the king of murder for compiling this convenient list of Ganondorf's abilities for me to use:

Additionally, here's a list I compiled of Sonic's abilities:


First off, some rules:
  • The battlefield is a ten-mile-wide square arena, with a solid concrete floor and infinitely thick and infinitely high solid steel walls; nothing comes in, nothing comes out.
  • No ally assistance is allowed here.
  • No time travel, teleportation, etc. to escape; if a combatant is absent from the arena for more than ten seconds of normal time, they forfeit the match.
  • Limited-use attacks, techniques, etc. cannot be used to counter attacks that can be used more than them (for instance, if Sonic used a one-time-use Shield to protect against one of Ganondorf's punch attacks, he could simply punch again after the Shield was destroyed and thus Sonic would have to do something different; thus, I will be skipping to the second time).
  • All items, techniques, attacks, etc. the character has used are compiled here.
With the ground rules out of the way, let's get right into this versus! First up, Ganondorf is on the offensive!

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Brute Strength to Punch Things
Ganondorf possesses immense physical strength, breaking free from heavy chains, punching floors to break them, and destroying entire pillars and castles like it ain't no thing. This could definitely be directed into a hedgehog-bound punching or kicking attack.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Sonic Speed!/Chaos Control
Sonic's superhuman speed (surpassing that of Mach 10/the speed of light with certain attacks) and reflexes to match would definitely allow Sonic to dodge Ganondorf's attacks and perform a counterattack (I'll get to that when Sonic goes on the offensive). Alternatively, Sonic can teleport with Chaos Control to dodge attacks.

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: A Bunch of Magic Attacks
Ganondorf's magic attacks include large fireballs, fire rings, bat shaped fire attacks, lightning/darkness blasts, and normal lightning bolts.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Sonic Speed!/Fire Shield/Lightning Shield
Aside from dodging the attacks with his speed or Chaos Control, Sonic can also use the Fire Shield and Lightning Shield to ignore any fire or lightning attacks respectively. If he really wants to be fancy, he could even jump through the fire rings!

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Plain, Simple Flight
Ganondorf can fly to attack from the air and stay away from Sonic's own attacks.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Extreme Gear
Sonic can use his Extreme Gear (a hoverboard type thing) to fly into the air and attack Ganondorf. Alternatively, he could go all Super Sonic on him (which I will get to later).

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Freezing People in a Bunch of Ice
Ganondorf can freeze objects and opponents in ice to prevent movement.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Willpower/Darkspine Sonic
Sonic's extreme willpower allows him to retain consciousness and stay calm even when situations look bleak. He can stay aware of things even when mind controlled, so a bit of ice shouldn't be too much to hinder this. While conscious, he could activate the World Rings of Rage, Hatred, and Sadness to transform into his Darkspine Sonic form, which possesses pyrokinetic abilities to melt the ice.

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Possessing Innocent People Even Though He's More Powerful Than Them Sometimes
Ganondorf has been shown to possess characters throughout the Zelda series to bend them to his will. However, this likely doesn't work on the stronger minded.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Willpower
As stated above, Sonic has immense willpower, and can retain control even while being possessed by evil magic (he resists the negative influences on his mind in Sonic Unleashed, even when Dark Gaia transforms him physically).

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Teleportation and Such
Ganondorf can teleport not only himself, but also others to any location.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Chaos Control
Sonic can teleport with Chaos Control, as stated above, to teleport back into the arena before the ten second forfeit timer is up.

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Barriers to Make Jails and Stuff
Ganondorf can create barriers to either imprison his opponents or make them unable to move at all.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Chaos Control
Sonic can teleport out of small prisons like this using Chaos Control (shown in Sonic Adventure 2 when he escapes a falling capsule in space using a fake, less powerful Chaos Emerald).

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Swords, Tridents, the Works
Ganondorf has swords, tridents, and other such weapons, and is skilled at using them in combat.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Caliburn
This will come up a bit later, but Sonic is also versed in swordplay, since in Sonic and the Black Knight, he wields the mythical sword called Caliburn with great skill, defeating the Knights of the Round Table and even King Arthur himself!

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: This is... Actually my Final Form
Ganondorf can turn into the pig-esque beast Ganon, growing immensely in size and power, able to crush opponents with his size
:4sonic:'s Attack: Piggyback Ride! :D
Sonic's agility would allow him to hop on top of Ganon for a ride, allowing him to use his spinball form to burrow into Ganon to deal some extra damage.

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Earthquake Via Punching the Ground
Ganondorf can use his brute strength to create an earthquake attack, which can stun and damage opponents.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Jump/Extreme Gear
Sonic could either simply jump over the earthquake or hop on his aforementioned Extreme Gear to hover above the attack.

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Flame Head Explosion of Castle-Flattening Epicness
Ganondorf can turn into a flaming head form and create an explosion with the power to flatten an entire castle.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Flame Shield/Invincibility
Sonic could either use the Flame Shield (which negates all fire/heat-based attacks) or the standard Invincibility power-up to tough it through the explosion.

:4ganondorf:'s Attack: Triforces of Power, Wisdom, and Courage
When the three pieces of the Triforce are united, the true Triforce is completed. This ancient relic grants the wishes of whoever touches the artifact.
:4sonic:'s Counter: Wait, Wasn't There an Ancient Prophecy Here Somewhere?
The ancient Triforce prophecy reads, "if a person without an equal balance of power, wisdom, and courage makes a wish, the Triforce will split into its three separate parts: the piece that best personifies the wish-maker will be the only piece to remain in hand, whilst the other two will take residence in whosoever most personifies them." This is shown in Ocarina of Time, when Ganondorf tries to make a wish and this same thing happens. Not only would this rid Ganondorf of the full Triforce, but the pieces could also possibly go into Sonic's possession, and then it would be all over for Ganondorf.

Now that we've got Ganondorf's offenses out of the way, let's move onto Sonic's!

:4sonic:'s Attack: A Bunch of Attacks That Aren't the Ones I'll List Below
Sonic has a bunch of different attacks (see the above summary in the quote).
:4ganondorf:'s Counter: Not Holy = Laugh it Off
Ganondorf is immune to any attack that isn't blessed by the gods, so a lot of Sonic's attacks are thrown out the window here. That said, Sonic does have other options...

:4sonic:'s Attack: Essentially the Master Sword, But With a Golden Suit of Armor and Flight to Boot
I've talked about Sonic's skill in wielding the legendary sword Caliburn, but he can also combine the four sacred swords to become Excalibur Sonic! In addition to wielding the legendary sword Excalibur, this also gives Sonic a golden suit of armor, a red cape, and flight. It's likely that Sonic could finish Ganondorf off with this, since it's a legendary sword like the Master Sword.
:4ganondorf:'s Counter: Not Specifically Holy
However, Excalibur wasn't specifically created by the gods. Thus, it's not 100% certain that this would work. However, that's not all Sonic has in the realm of holy weapons...

:4sonic:'s Attack: Hyper Sonic Style!
Combining the power of the seven Chaos Emeralds with the power of the Master Emerald (this was created by the gods to prevent the Chaos Emeralds from being misused) to create the Super Emeralds, Sonic can turn into Hyper Sonic! This is basically Super Sonic+, with invincibility, increased speed, agility, strength, the works. See the Sonic summary for more information. Anyway, this godly-power-infused transformation would be enough to finish Ganondorf off (especially since Sonic can still perform his other maneuvers while in this form, and with a maximum Ring count of 999,999, he could stay in this form for about eleven days).
:4ganondorf:'s Counter: Not a Holy Weapon
However, the Emeralds aren't specifically holy weapons, and that's all that Ganondorf has ever been killed with.
:4sonic:'s Counter Counter: Hyper Sonic + Excalibur
HOWEVER, Hyper Sonic could still wield the legendary sword Excalibur and infuse this legendary blade with the Emeralds' holy power to create the ultimate Ganondorf-slaying sword. Plus, Super Sonic (and by extension Hyper Sonic) has access to the "Arrow of Light", which has striking similarities to the Light Arrow, which is another of Ganondorf's weaknesses.

SUMMARY
While Ganondorf might have powerful attacks and a very specific weakness, Sonic's speed, agility, transformations, and equally specific strengths are just enough to power through Ganondorf's defenses.
WINNER: :4sonic:

Who should I do next? Leave a reply with suggestions, and I might even take one of them up! :)
Nice analysis, but I have a few problems
1. Sonic wouldn't instantly figure out how to beat Dorf, and Ganon could counter with any of his attacks which should do heavy damage
2. Ganon may not be fast, but he can use his teleport to sneak up on Sonic and attack him and since Ganon goes intangible while teleporting I doubt Sonic could sense him
3. Ganon doesn't instantly die to holy weaponry, though it's debatable if Ganon would actually be smart enough to get away while Sonic was attacking him by creating one of those seemingly unbreakable barriers around himself
4. Ganon would probably notice when Sonic stops using his shields and do his ultimate-fire-head-attack-of-death-and-cookies to defeat him.
There are a few other things to say but my main point is, I don't feel that Sonic wins a hundred percent of the time. Would I be willing to say Ganon wins more of the time? No not really but if I were to put a win ratio on this it would probably be a 60:40
 

Munomario777

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Nice analysis, but I have a few problems
1. Sonic wouldn't instantly figure out how to beat Dorf, and Ganon could counter with any of his attacks which should do heavy damage
2. Ganon may not be fast, but he can use his teleport to sneak up on Sonic and attack him and since Ganon goes intangible while teleporting I doubt Sonic could sense him
3. Ganon doesn't instantly die to holy weaponry, though it's debatable if Ganon would actually be smart enough to get away while Sonic was attacking him by creating one of those seemingly unbreakable barriers around himself
4. Ganon would probably notice when Sonic stops using his shields and do his ultimate-fire-head-attack-of-death-and-cookies to defeat him.
There are a few other things to say but my main point is, I don't feel that Sonic wins a hundred percent of the time. Would I be willing to say Ganon wins more of the time? No not really but if I were to put a win ratio on this it would probably be a 60:40
1. Trial and error. If Sonic's Light Speed Attack, etc. doesn't work, he'll go into Super Sonic, which renders him invincible. If that doesn't work, he'll go into Hyper Sonic, which has holy properties via the Master Emerald.
2. Sonic's quills can sense danger, including the danger of Ganondorf teleporting and attacking. Even if he doesn't sense it, Hyper Sonic/Super Sonic is invincible.
3. Well, it's implied that Sonic would hit Ganondorf multiple times to defeat him.
4. True, but Super/Hyper Sonic is invincible and could withstand the blast.
 

Nerdicon

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1. Trial and error. If Sonic's Light Speed Attack, etc. doesn't work, he'll go into Super Sonic, which renders him invincible. If that doesn't work, he'll go into Hyper Sonic, which has holy properties via the Master Emerald.
2. Sonic's quills can sense danger, including the danger of Ganondorf teleporting and attacking. Even if he doesn't sense it, Hyper Sonic/Super Sonic is invincible.
3. Well, it's implied that Sonic would hit Ganondorf multiple times to defeat him.
4. True, but Super/Hyper Sonic is invincible and could withstand the blast.
1. Well while he's Normal or Super Sonic he can still be damaged (though to a far lesser extent in his super form) which may cause him to lose some rings early on
2. The difference is Sonic was sensing a large dinosaur charging him at full-speed, this is a massless being silently moving behind him
3. Ganondorf can teleport as well as create powerful barriers for protection, he might even be able to outlast Sonic's transformation this way
4. Super Sonic would take a little damage, and I was more referring to normal sonic
 

the king of murder

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Good job analyzing the match @ Munomario777 Munomario777 . Would argue some points but too busy playing, lol. Also, you forgot Ganon's ability to alter space. He did it in Oracle games, as the room changes and the button input becomes completly different similar to what Palkia does in Smash Bros just even more chaotic.
 
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Munomario777

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1. Well while he's Normal or Super Sonic he can still be damaged (though to a far lesser extent in his super form) which may cause him to lose some rings early on
2. The difference is Sonic was sensing a large dinosaur charging him at full-speed, this is a massless being silently moving behind him
3. Ganondorf can teleport as well as create powerful barriers for protection, he might even be able to outlast Sonic's transformation this way
4. Super Sonic would take a little damage, and I was more referring to normal sonic
1. Super Sonic can only be harmed by bottomless pits, being crushed by moving walls and such, and drowning. Even if Sonic did get hit, he would only lose half of the Rings in his possession (and even then, he could pick them up again).
2. Sonic couldn't see the dinosaur (it was behind a wall that it then broke throygh), and I don't believe there was a sound effect for the dinosaur prior to it busting through the wall. Either way, again, Super/Hyper Sonic is invincible.
3. For eleven days? Hyper Sonic can create a screen nuke, move at the speed of light, teleport, and even freeze time; a few walls and teleportation won't stop him.
4. No, he wouldn't. Again, Super Sonic can only be harmed by bottomless pits, being crushed by moving walls and such, and drowning.

Edit: @ the king of murder the king of murder , I didn't forget it; I just didn't see any real offensive purpose to something that vague.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Super Sonic "only" being able to get hurt by those sort of things mean ; he can be harmed, unlike Ganondorf unless you can bypass his Triforce of Power. Which Super Sonic can't. Only characters I could see that doing without any holy weapons of themselves are the Psychics.
 

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Super Sonic "only" being able to get hurt by those sort of things mean ; he can be harmed, unlike Ganondorf unless you can bypass his Triforce of Power. Which Super Sonic can't. Only characters I could see that doing without any holy weapons of themselves are the Psychics.
I never said that Super Sonic was 100% invincible; I was just pointing out that the things that Nerdicon was talking about wouldn't harm Super Sonic. Also, Sonic does have holy weaponry; read my analysis for details on that.
 

Nerdicon

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1. Super Sonic can only be harmed by bottomless pits, being crushed by moving walls and such, and drowning. Even if Sonic did get hit, he would only lose half of the Rings in his possession (and even then, he could pick them up again).
2. Sonic couldn't see the dinosaur (it was behind a wall that it then broke throygh), and I don't believe there was a sound effect for the dinosaur prior to it busting through the wall. Either way, again, Super/Hyper Sonic is invincible.
3. For eleven days? Hyper Sonic can create a screen nuke, move at the speed of light, teleport, and even freeze time; a few walls and teleportation won't stop him.
4. No, he wouldn't. Again, Super Sonic can only be harmed by bottomless pits, being crushed by moving walls and such, and drowning.

Edit: @ the king of murder the king of murder , I didn't forget it; I just didn't see any real offensive purpose to something that vague.
I posted about this earlier in the thread so I'll bring up a source if I need to, but in Sonic Rush Sonic would lose about 5-7 rings when hit with the missile attack from the final boss. This is can be assumed to be a powerful attack, but not that strong in hindsight. Given what most characters in Smash can do, I'm sure they could put a dent in Sonic. As for the screen nuke that isn't effective against bosses, even if it did harm Ganon he could use these protective barriers and teleportation to dodge it because the "hyper flash" doesn't stay on screen for long. Finally, Hyper Sonic is never seen flying and although you could probably assume he could fly given the fact that he's a direct upgrade to Super Sonic, it's still worth noting. As for the sensing ability, he can't see Ganondorf either, it is worth noting that in aLttP a loud noise sounds whenever Ganon teleports, but Ganon stops before reappearing so Sonic could easily lose track of where Ganon went. Ganon is also invincible/invisible in darkness.
 

Munomario777

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I posted about this earlier in the thread so I'll bring up a source if I need to, but in Sonic Rush Sonic would lose about 5-7 rings when hit with the missile attack from the final boss.
This is can be assumed to be a powerful attack, but not that strong in hindsight. Given what most characters in Smash can do, I'm sure they could put a dent in Sonic.
Eh, five to seven Rings isn't that big of a loss when you have over 900,000 of them at your disposal. Either way, given Hyper Sonic's added durability, I'd imagine that he could survive such missile blasts (plus, in Doomsday Zone, Hyper Sonic isn't harmed by similar missiles).
As for the screen nuke that isn't effective against bosses, even if it did harm Ganon he could use these protective barriers and teleportation to dodge it because the "hyper flash" doesn't stay on screen for long.
Fair enough.
Finally, Hyper Sonic is never seen flying and although you could probably assume he could fly given the fact that he's a direct upgrade to Super Sonic, it's still worth noting.
His running animation is the same as Super Sonic's (that is to say, flying above the ground).
As for the sensing ability, he can't see Ganondorf either, it is worth noting that in aLttP a loud noise sounds whenever Ganon teleports, but Ganon stops before reappearing so Sonic could easily lose track of where Ganon went. Ganon is also invincible/invisible in darkness.
Sonic could sense the dinosaur, which he couldn't see, hear, or have any other indication that it was coming besides his spines. Thus, he should be able to sense Ganondorf even while he's intangible. It's not a matter of losing track of where Ganondorf is; it's a matter of sensing when he's going to strike and where he's going to strike to dodge and counter attack accordingly. Of course, again, this is unnecessary given that he can become invincible via Hyper Sonic.
 

Nerdicon

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Eh, five to seven Rings isn't that big of a loss when you have over 900,000 of them at your disposal. Either way, given Hyper Sonic's added durability, I'd imagine that he could survive such missile blasts (plus, in Doomsday Zone, Hyper Sonic isn't harmed by similar missiles).
I personally feel Sonic should have the max number of rings he can have in a normal stage as opposed to in an overworld of sorts, similarly to why I don't think Mario should be able to repeatedly use items in battle. That's a whole other can of worms though, so I'll pass on arguing that point. I should also mention that in the same game Supah Sonic takes knockback from any attack, so some characters might be able to do massive damage to Super Sonic by comboing him into oblivion

His running animation is the same as Super Sonic's (that is to say, flying above the ground).
DOH!

Sonic could sense the dinosaur, which he couldn't see, hear, or have any other indication that it was coming besides his spines. Thus, he should be able to sense Ganondorf even while he's intangible. It's not a matter of losing track of where Ganondorf is; it's a matter of sensing when he's going to strike and where he's going to strike to dodge and counter attack accordingly. Of course, again, this is unnecessary given that he can become invincible via Hyper Sonic.
While he couldn't see or hear the dinosaur, it still made a sound the duration it was moving. Say Sonic's quills sense vibrations in the air well the dinosaur makes plenty of those, stomping, roaring, even air resistance from it moving. The difference is that aside from the weird sound near the beginning of the teleport, Ganondorf makes no indication of his being in the area at all. Because he's invisible and intangible he can't be seen or heard in any way possible (bar the Lens of Truth or something similar). You simply can't sense what isn't there.
 

Munomario777

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I personally feel Sonic should have the max number of rings he can have in a normal stage as opposed to in an overworld of sorts, similarly to why I don't think Mario should be able to repeatedly use items in battle. That's a whole other can of worms though, so I'll pass on arguing that point.
So you won't be refuting the 999,999 Ring count, then?
I should also mention that in the same game Supah Sonic takes knockback from any attack, so some characters might be able to do massive damage to Super Sonic by comboing him into oblivion
Combos and knockback won't do any good if the person you're trying to combo is invincible.
You missed!:4wario2:
While he couldn't see or hear the dinosaur, it still made a sound the duration it was moving. Say Sonic's quills sense vibrations in the air well the dinosaur makes plenty of those, stomping, roaring, even air resistance from it moving. The difference is that aside from the weird sound near the beginning of the teleport, Ganondorf makes no indication of his being in the area at all. Because he's invisible and intangible he can't be seen or heard in any way possible (bar the Lens of Truth or something similar). You simply can't sense what isn't there.
The quills don't sense vibrations. They sense danger. If something endangers Sonic's life, his quills will let him know. Vibrations are too broad; there's a lot of non-dangerous things that can cause vibrations. Sonic isn't sensing something that isn't there; he's sensing the very real danger of Ganondorf teleporting to him and attacking. As for how exactly this happens, let's just say that there are a lot of other things in this discussion that don't make too much sense. :p

Anyway, if you're still not convinced about the whole danger sensing thing, then I'd just like to play the "Hyper Sonic is invincible" card and leave it at that.
 

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So, I'd like to make a more organized approach to the character-versus-character posts, as well as the thread as a whole. That's why I'm introducing a bracket system! How it works is simple: users nominate a character(s) who they think is a serious contender to be top tier. Then I will write up a simple bracket including all of the contestants and match them up in fitting ways. I (and anyone else who wants to participate) will then write up versus analyses for each battle in the bracket, round-by-round. Whoever wins the tournament will be crowned the Canonically Strongest Character in Smash! Depending on how many nominations there are, there might be quite a few versus analyses to make, so I'll definitely need a bit of help with this! :) For now, though, you can nominate a character or two to join the tournament! I'll start things off with my nominations:
The plumber that doesn't wear ties, the Italian mushroom muncher, Mister Video Game himself! :4mario:Joins the Battle!
The hypersonic hedgehog, the extremist spinning speeder, the Fastest Thing Alive! :4sonic: Joins the Battle!
Leave your nominations below! The flavor text is 100% optional. ;)

Current Nominees:
:4mario:Mister Video Game Himself
:4sonic:The Fastest Thing Alive
:4kirby:The Pink Puffball
:4metaknight:The Masked Swordspuff
:4shulk:Really Feeling It The Monado Master
 
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Nerdicon

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So you won't be refuting the 999,999 Ring count, then?
Not now anyway

Combos and knickknack won't do any good if the person you're trying to combo is invincible.
I literally just explained why I even made this point, Super Sonic still takes knockback and takes a minuscule amount of damage when hit with a strong attack, if someone could repeatedly hit Sonic with strong attacks (in super form) he wouldn't have time to react. Granted I don't think Ganondorf has that kind of speed.

You missed!:4wario2:
:facepalm:

The quills don't sense vibrations. They sense danger. If something endangers Sonic's life, his quills will let him know. Vibrations are too broad; there's a lot of non-dangerous things that can cause vibrations. Sonic isn't sensing something that isn't there; he's sensing the very real danger of Ganondorf teleporting to him and attacking. As for how exactly this happens, let's just say that there are a lot of other things in this discussion that don't make too much sense. :p

Anyway, if you're still not convinced about the whole danger sensing thing, then I'd just like to play the "Hyper Sonic is invincible" card and leave it at that.
Lack of evidence, no logical reasoning...IT BUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRNS!!!!! Video Game Logic then
 

Munomario777

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Not now anyway
Okay then.
I literally just explained why I even made this point, Super Sonic still takes knockback and takes a minuscule amount of damage when hit with a strong attack, if someone could repeatedly hit Sonic with strong attacks (in super form) he wouldn't have time to react. Granted I don't think Ganondorf has that kind of speed.
True, except Sonic can react to things traveling towards him at light speed, so I don't think many attacks would give him that kind of trouble.
Lack of evidence, no logical reasoning...IT BUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRNS!!!!! Video Game Logic then
Like the lack of evidence you had for sensing vibrations (whereas the danger sensing thing has a clear in-game line of dialogue telling us that it exists) and the lack of logical reasoning in sensing vibrations (which I pointed out by saying that vibrations aren't always danger)? Anyway, I agree that video game logic is the best way to go here.
 

Nerdicon

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Should I do an ability dump for Kirby? Yes I should
:4kirby:
General
Kirby is an unknown species from Planet Popstar and resides in Dreamland. Standing at 8 inches tall, he's pretty small and he's not too bright either, but he can prove his remarkable abilities

Mobility
Kirby, being the stout little puffball he is doesn't move particularly fast when running, barely clocking in at a few feet per second. He can also float, but his movement is a little erratic and even slower than his running speed. His main method of transportation is the Warp Star. He has a seemingly infinite number of them and can call them at any time. He can fly it around while attacking, the warp star itself can also shoot stars as a separate attack. It's not really known how fast the warp star is. If the map from milky way wishes is to scale (though kirby is enlarged) the warp star caps out at 6371 kilometers per second way faster than sound but way slower than light. Other than that there's no real estimate of the warp star's speed other than it being described as warp speed in some smash trophy descriptions which are to be considered, but what "warp speed" actually means is up to debate so I feel the 6371 km per second should be the definitive number. Besides that, Kirby also has the wheel and Snow Bowl abilities for faster movement and invincibility.

Durability
Being so malleable, Kirby has shown differing degrees of tolerance to pain. Sometimes when crushed he'l just die, other times he'll be flattened and take a considerable amount of damage, but still be alive. Kirby can use a guard to greatly reduce the damage he takes. In the case of Leaf, Ice, and Mirror he won't take any damage when hit while guarding. Only Marx's giant laser and black hole are able to harm Ice or Mirror Kirby. As Stone Kirby he can turn into a completely invincible stone for protection, only getting crushed by a massive surface can harm him in this form.

Offense
Kirby has several abilities at his disposal for combat, literally. First and foremost is Kirby's trademark inhale ability, which can swallow enemies up to twice his size and steal their abilities, and he can generally use their abilities better than the original. Some enemies however are too big to be inhaled normally like most bosses (Ridley) Kirby thankfully has plenty of other abilities to use.
Copy: Allows him to copy enemies using some sort of scanner, better than the normal inhale as it can copy abilities from larger foes that he couldn't swallow before
Baton: Gives Kirby the ability to control his opponent's movements after hitting them with a strange beam, at any time he can destroy them by throwing the baton
Ice: Makes Kirby invincible while blocking as well as giving him several ice based attacks like ice breath or a short ranged blizzard.
Snow Bowl: Kirby can turn into a giant invincible snowball and roll after enemies. Only lasts for about 2-3 minutes
Wheel; Similar to snow bowl, Kirby turns into a wheel and charges at his opponents being nearly invincible while doing so. He can be damaged by spikes and while turning (In Squeak Squad wheel is immune to spikes). At it's fastest the wheel can clock in at 216 km per hour in Kirby Air Ride
Tornado: Allows Kirby to transform into a small, invincible tornado for a short time or create a giant tornado to defeat his enemies
Mirror: Allows Kirby to create a seemingly infinite number of clones of himself that are invincible when guarding as well as reflecting projectiles while guarding, creating a blade of light to attack with, and shooting short ranged projectiles that also reflect projectiles
Hypernova: Allows Kirby to swallow enemies up to 6 times his size and upwards of 200 pounds, he can also swallow projectiles no problem.
Crash: A potent screen nuke that can only be used once per ability
Bell: When Kirby blocks he does damage, has several sound based attacks. Invincible while blocking
Archer: Invincible while crouching, powerful long range arrows.
Ghost: Gives Kirby complete control over lesser entities, he can kill them at any time
Stone: Turns Kirby invincible whenever he uses it, labeled up to 8 tons
He can also shoot using the warp star, or crash into someone using the warp star doing massive damage especially if he's in stone form.
:4kirby: <----- Fear him, FEAR THE PUFF!
 
Last edited:

Nerdicon

Smash Journeyman
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True, except Sonic can react to things traveling towards him at light speed, so I don't think many attacks would give him that kind of trouble.
Well I did say they'd have to be fast

Like the lack of evidence you had for sensing vibrations (whereas the danger sensing thing has a clear in-game line of dialogue telling us that it exists) and the lack of logical reasoning in sensing vibrations (which I pointed out by saying that vibrations aren't always danger)? Anyway, I agree that video game logic is the best way to go here.
Sorry if I came off a little rude there, I was more referring to the in-game lack of evidence:) Video game logic for the win!
 
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