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Who We Are: Smash and Pornography

PseudoTurtle

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Messages
2,162
Location
Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
Warning Received
No it isn't. There are legitimate problems with the exploitation and objectification of women in pornography. You can't make statements like this and then say you don't want to talk about it. It's true that porn actresses consent to what they're doing, but that doesn't mean that porn isn't perpetuating harmful conceptions of women. Yes, women can like sex. But the depiction of sex in pornography is far from natural.
lol

Firstly, thank you so much for making this thread. I oppose porn for the following reasons:

-The Porn Industry is closely connected to human trafficking. Many 'professional' actors are trafficked into the industry. So by watching porn one is contributing to human trafficking.

-The Porn Stars are often victims of trafficking, abuse and ****. The industry is completely unregulated and filled with drugs and violence. So again, by watching porn one is contributing to this industry.

-Porn distorts and destroys healthy sexuality of an individual. It gradually desensitises the viewer leading one to look for more "hardcore" material, much like a drug as an user's tolerance for it rises. There are new studies that indicate how detrimental porn is to relationships, and how it affects the human brain. I think this is because our neurology cannot make a difference whether we are having sex with a real person or watching porn. The "wiring" is essentially the same, and what you "take in" from watching porn you inevitably bring in to the bedroom. And obviously that does not work.

I could keep on but here are the main reasons, porn is bad for you and it is bad for everyone else too. Check out the link below for more:

http://fightthenewdrug.org/get-the-facts/

Lastly some pics for lulz




LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
 

Shadow Light Master

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Messages
364
Location
McAllen, Texas
Well I certainly agree with that last paragraph. Now, about these legitimate problems with the exploitation of women. Let me ask you this:

Is gay porn exploiting men? Is lesbian porn exploiting women? Have you even thought about this?

And honestly the inaccuracies in the depiction of sex in pornography are comparable to the inaccuracies in the depiction of family life when you watch a show like "full house" or "family matters" (to use your phrase, it is far from natural). Stuff on TV and the internet is not real life, and it is depressing that people struggle identifying the difference between the two.
Yes, it is. I don't even understand how that's supposed to be a counter-argument -- especially when the vast majority of lesbian porn is aimed at heterosexual males and is made to cater to them.

I also don't understand how the TV example is supposed to be a counter-argument either. TV does have effects on its viewers -- for instance, TV viewing at a young age is linked to increased violence and aggression, which is why the American Pediatrics Society says kids shouldn't watch more than 2 hours a day.

Also, I don't know why people are trying to deny the porn industry has a problem with human trafficking. Sasha Gray, for instance, was forced to do porn by her boyfriend.

Lastly, if porn was more populist, as in, if it was amateur, most of these problems would be eliminated. The way the system is set up right now is really harmful. Capitalism has reduced the human body to a commodity.

"So by watching porn one is contributing to human trafficking."

Gotta stop you right there little buddy. This statement is absolutely ridiculous and offensive. By spreading ignorance you are part of the problem.

"The industry is completely unregulated and filled with drugs and violence."

So is the police force despite heavy regulation from agencies whose sole purpose is to eliminate corruption. I guess it's time we abolish the police force. There are drugs and violence in our own gaming scene. Abolish melee?
I don't understand how this is a counter-argument. The police force IS in need of drastic, drastic, overhaul. Even though I disagree with pornography on principle, I'm not proposing abolishing it, but this corporate system where it's done for money at the very least needs to be dismantled.
 
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JipC

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
367
Location
SoCal
I was agreeing with you until you started bashing porn by saying its harmful to woman and junk, theres a negative connotation with being involved with a porn company but you just seemed like you wanted to preach about your own opinions instead of the actual problem with being sponsored by a porn site.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
I don't counter argue necessarily. I just try to help lost souls find direction.

Sometimes, it can be quite a handful.

:denzel:
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
Yes, it is. I don't even understand how that's supposed to be a counter-argument -- especially when the vast majority of lesbian porn is aimed at heterosexual males and is made to cater to them.

I also don't understand how the TV example is supposed to be a counter-argument either. TV does have effects on its viewers -- for instance, TV viewing at a young age is linked to increased violence and aggression, which is why the American Pediatrics Society says kids shouldn't watch more than 2 hours a day.

Also, I don't know why people are trying to deny the porn industry has a problem with human trafficking. Sasha Gray, for instance, was forced to do porn by her boyfriend.

Lastly, if porn was more populist, as in, if it was amateur, most of these problems would be eliminated. The way the system is set up right now is really harmful. Capitalism has reduced the human body to a commodity.



I don't understand how this is a counter-argument. The police force IS in need of drastic, drastic, overhaul. Even though I disagree with pornography on principle, I'm not proposing abolishing it, but this corporate system where it's done for money at the very least needs to be dismantled.
So your stance is the porn industry is evil, but if we made all amateur porn then the evils would go away? At this point you're not even contributing to the conversation (porn companies sponsoring smashers), you're just ranting about your own beliefs.
 
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Shadow Light Master

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Messages
364
Location
McAllen, Texas
So your stance is the porn industry is evil, but if we made all amateur porn then the evils would go away? At this point you're not even contributing to the conversation (porn companies sponsoring smashers), you're just ranting about your own beliefs.
Some of the problems would go away, yes, such as human trafficking, and the depiction of harmful or uncomfortable sex positions. If problematic depictions of sex are eliminated, the conditioning to expect them or desire them should also go down.

In amateur porn people just do what they enjoy doing. There is little fear of the perpetuation of harmful portrayals of sexuality. Of course, there are still questions of whether or not they're promoting objectification, but that can probably be solved with more humanizing camera work and portrayals of intimacy. nubilefilms and x-art do a pretty good job at this.

Yes, I personally object to pornography on the grounds that I think your body is special and you should only share it with people who can truly love, respect, and appreciate it the same way you do. But, I'm not pressing that point because it's more subjective and I can't demonstrate that it poses imminent harm. The reason why I'm bringing this up is because I want to make it a point that I'm not trying to impose a subjective belief, though I do have them.

You are right, I'm not talking about Smash at all right now. The only reason I brought this up is because some extremely intelligent people who I respect in this thread (such as ACE) are saying things that are breaking my heart. You can be against pornography and not be a misogynist. I don't think people who are for porn are misogynists either, even though I think they are passively supporting misogyny. I think everyone has good intentions here, but I think they're getting too caught up in how enjoyable porn is, and overreacting to the opposition.

Look, even though I'm a Muslim, I grew up in the same culture all of you did. I get it. Porn is awesome (even though I prefer hentai). It's really really fun. But there are really, really big issues when it comes to the porn industry that I think need to be discussed. We can't sweep them under the rug with "LOL" or "go back to tumblr" or what have you.

Anyway, I know we are hugely off-topic at this point. So if you want, I'll end the discussion here. I just got upset because I don't like being accused of being a misogynist because I don't support sex work. I love women, and I love freedom, but I also recognize that some choices can be self-destructive, and are encouraged by capitalism which reduces the human body to a commodity.
 

Shadow Light Master

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Messages
364
Location
McAllen, Texas
I was agreeing with you until you started bashing porn by saying its harmful to woman and junk, theres a negative connotation with being involved with a porn company but you just seemed like you wanted to preach about your own opinions instead of the actual problem with being sponsored by a porn site.
Well you see, in my opinion, the connotation doesn't really matter as long as Bizzarro Flame isn't doing something that is actually wrong. I'm more of the kind of guy who says "**** what other people think if you aren't doing anything wrong."

Now, I DO personally believe it's wrong that BF is supporting YouPorn or whatever, but like I said, BF represents himself, not Smash. The impact of his sponsorship on the scene, or as a gateway to pornography, is basically nonexistent. Especially when his name is rendered as YP | Bizzarro Flame and not even YouPorn.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
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Northern IL
The problem is that you have gotten so far off topic. We aren't here trying to discuss the evils of the porn industry, we are talking about whether we can show the letters YP on a stream.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
@ Shadow Light Master Shadow Light Master I just say whatever comes to mind on the boards. You really shouldn't put so much heart into a thread in melee discussion (that arguably belongs elsewhere).

It's good to know that you oppose the absolute worst consequences/aspects of the pornography industry. I also oppose horrific, immoral acts. I just don't think anyone of sound mind will look badly on the community because a swaggy charismatic Ganon main wears a Jersey and gamer tag showing "YP".
 
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Zodiac

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
3,557
Team YP does in fact represent e-sports, and I believe their offical name is "Team YP" There is no "Porn" in the name, its just YP. But that doesn't change that its still flipping "YOU PORN".

I could write a wall of text but lets be honest, Nintendo + Porn...LETS SEE HOW WELL THAT GOES OVER WHEN WE WANT NINTENDO TO START SPONSORING EVENTS.
 

Stryker

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
206
Location
Eastern Canada
"Having players, having the community, associated with pornography is not the way to gain respect. Pornography, among tons of other stuff, is hurtful to women."

Having players able to live from playing smash is what makes this esport grow.
Funnily enough, did you know women watch porn as well? Yeah.. they kind of do. some pornography objectifies women, some pornography objectifies men. Hell, some pornography objectifies farm animals. There is literally porn of everything.

I believe it is the players decision, and thats literally the only one who should have a say in it. No one else should be able to alter someones career in esports just because they don't agree with a sponsor.
If I don't morally agree with someones sponsor, I should not have the right to deny that players career simply based on my beliefs. Das dumb and wrong.
 

JipC

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
367
Location
SoCal
SeagullJoe's gf is also sponsored by YP now if noone knew
If you dont know who he is he's a prominent Brawl/PM/Smash 4 player who does a bit of Melee. Never have seen his gf play but apparently she's at least decent
 
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Fortress | Sveet

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SeagullJoe's gf is also sponsored by YP now if noone knew
If you dont know who he is he's a prominent Brawl/PM/Smash 4 player who does a bit of Melee. Never have seen his gf play but apparently she's at least decent
Or hes dating a porn star ;)
 

Spoice

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
Messages
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England, Birmingham
NNID
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I could write a wall of text but lets be honest, Nintendo + Porn...LETS SEE HOW WELL THAT GOES OVER WHEN WE WANT NINTENDO TO START SPONSORING EVENTS.
I think that is the main problem here. We all want melee to be a major e sport, or at the very least, be a well known e sport. But when we have such a reluctant company as Nintendo, we need to do everything we can to get them to acknowledge us, and having a member of our community sponsored by a team that is affiliated with porn is not gonna leave a good taste in their mouth is it? I've said it before. The best solution to this is also the easiest. Just simply have the name team YP changed to something else. That way, biz is still sponsored, there would be less controversy, and the team would only be affiliated with You Porn through the head company.
 

JipC

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
367
Location
SoCal
Or hes dating a porn star ;)
no its definetly the smash side

Team YP does in fact represent e-sports, and I believe their offical name is "Team YP" There is no "Porn" in the name, its just YP. But that doesn't change that its still flipping "YOU PORN".

I could write a wall of text but lets be honest, Nintendo + Porn...LETS SEE HOW WELL THAT GOES OVER WHEN WE WANT NINTENDO TO START SPONSORING EVENTS.
http://www.gamnesia.com/news/nintendo-and-playboy-team-up-to-promote-bayonetta-2
 
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Shadow Light Master

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Messages
364
Location
McAllen, Texas
@ Shadow Light Master Shadow Light Master I just say whatever comes to mind on the boards. You really shouldn't put so much heart into a thread in melee discussion (that arguably belongs elsewhere).

It's good to know that you oppose the absolute worst consequences/aspects of the pornography industry. I also oppose horrific, immoral acts. I just don't think anyone of sound mind will look badly on the community because a swaggy charismatic Ganon main wears a Jersey and gamer tag showing "YP".
I agree. I do want to point out though that wrong is wrong, and it has to be opposed everywhere, unless it's said as a joke. If we don't, the negative beliefs will be perpetuated. Forums for discussions on feminism and the like is exactly the kind of place where these arguments matter the least. Academics aren't going to change society. It's discussions with our peers that will.
 

FinalVictory

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 4, 2014
Messages
2
Hey guys. I usually just lurk on the forums, but I'm compelled to respond to the discussion here. I know this is a long post, with which many of you will disagree, but bare with me.

I'm surprised by some of the perspectives offered in this thread. Porn is harmful. This fact is supported by virtually every study concerning the topic. The porn industry does contribute to human trafficking. Not every porn star is trafficked, but some of the unnamed women you watch are not performing on their own volition. They are threatened, beaten, enslaved. This isn't a personal belief. This happens. There are testimonials from women who have had this happen to them. By watching the videos in which these women star, one creates demand for the creation of similar videos. One contributes to human trafficking.

The effects of porn on ones brain are also well documented. As your brain experiences the pornographic material, dopamine is released. Over time your brain rewires itself and begins to crave the release of dopamine through pornography. It is chemically addictive. This isn't an opinion or belief. It's scientifically supported fact.

So who cares if one is addicted to porn? What is the harm in it?
Beyond the already addressed issue of human trafficking, there are many negative effects of pornography. Porn is extremely detrimental to relationships. Fight the New Drug is obviously anti-porn. So you can expect that any of their articles will exhibit that bias. But do yourself a favor and read this article (or any number of other articles online) and pay attention to the logical progression of the studies referenced within.

http://www.fightthenewdrug.org/porn-kills-love-2/

Porn creates distrust within relationships if one member is unhappy that the other watches. Porn causes viewers to compare their real life partners to what they view on screen. Men who watch porn statistically rate themselves as less in love with their partners than men who do not watch porn. Porn use is listed as an issue in a high percentage of divorce cases. It goes on and on.

Porn can be very enjoyable, which is why it's hard to avoid reacting negatively to someone telling you it's wrong. However, I'd encourage those of you who support it to do some research on it's long term effects on:

1. the physiology of one's brain

2. the success of one's romantic relationships

3. the demand for human trafficking

4. the perception of sexuality and what is sexually normal

As some of you have stated, Porn isn't a one-gender issue. It is, however, an industry created primarily by males for the consumption of a primarily male audience. This is why statements like "porn depicts women as sexual objects" are not wrong. Statistically, men who view more porn express a preference for women who are more submissive. Porn quietly contributes to the misogynistic culture in which we live.

I could go on, but I'll likely not convince you regardless of how many studies I link and how much factual analysis I offer. Porn has many harmful effects and that is a factually supported statement. But that isn't the topic of this thread:

It is not for any one of us to decide who may or may not sponsor any given player within this community. Each player must decide for himself or herself what he or she is willing to advertise. And let's be clear — accepting a sponsorship from a company is an advertisement for them. That's why they sponsor you — to gain publicity through your notoriety.

I don't think the OP was suggesting any direct repercussions for the players who have accepted these sponsorships. My understanding of his post was that it was an appeal to the community as a whole to carefully consider who they accept as their own sponsors and an appeal to the players who are already sponsored by these companies.

I've offered a number of facts in this post, but it is only an opinion that I can offer in relation to the actual topic of this thread:
These sponsorships are potentially harmful to the smash community for reasons that have been offered by several posters before me.

TL;DR — Porn is physically and psychologically harmful to viewers and to participants in its creation. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact supported by a large and growing pool of data. However, whether porn is harmful or not harmful is not the topic of the thread. My opinion is that these sponsorships could harm the smash community through its relationship with Nintendo, as well as negatively shaping outside perception of the community.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
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The back country, GA
It would be cool if we could like, avoid the original topic completely and preech about the negative aspects of porn.

Oh wait.
 

FinalVictory

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 4, 2014
Messages
2
Well I think the negative aspects of porn tie closely in with the many reasons for which porn sponsorships are (in my opinion) negative for the smash community. I also directly addressed the topic of the thread at the end of my post.

I offered a well reasoned argument for my stance and you responded with a sarcastic one liner that addresses none of the issues I raised.

Let's do a thought experiment. Say that enslaving women for sex is legal somewhere in the world and there are established companies profiting off of this trade. Would you be okay with those companies sponsoring smash players?
Hopefully you're response to this question is "No, I'm not okay with that." If that's the case, then we both agree that a line should be drawn at some point, and there are indeed companies that we should not advertise within our community.

For me, porn sponsorships cross that line. For you, perhaps they do not. But at least I have offered an argument with factual evidence behind it so support my view.
 

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,647
Location
Lowell, MA
I don't understand why everyone thinks porn ruins your perception of sex.

Allow me to elaborate.

Whenever I have sex, it's just like a porno. I'm sorry, but this factually factual statement is supported by my **** and if you can't accept that you're just an misogynist or something.
 

ChaikaBestGirl

Smash Journeyman
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Jul 18, 2015
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285
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weeaboo protection chamber
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digdugfury
I just think that if anyone is going to help the Smash scene grow, it doesn't matter who it is. Coastward is sponsored by Fakku, and just because they are a porn site doesn't make it a bad thing. I have met several Fakku employees and they are just average guys whose jobs just happen to be selling porn. They also want the Smash scene to grow, so why not let them? Any effort forward should be a positive thing. I mean YP has an incredibly unknown Dota 2 team and Fakku even hosted their own Dota 2 tournament, and that is the fastest growing ESport there is. As long as they don't actively try to slander the community and the professional play, they should be fully accepted as a positive force
 
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