Who Here Has Read 5 or More Books in The Bible and Your Interpretation

[urdailywater]

I've read the Gospel, Job, some of Revelations, and most of Genesis.

It's very interesting, I used to would read it every night -- but stopped.

There were some insane things in there, I'd have to admit. That's why you call it faith though.
I like it though. Something weird though -- the Old Testament is competetly destroyed with the New Testament laws wise. It's like God got stricter after Jesus' death, which I can understand since you don't have to sacrafice lambs, or anything else like that, anymore every day to cover your sins.
I learned this a long time ago but once you actually read both testaments you get to see a lot of differences.

Moses was alive, and Genesis.

Wasn't Moses alive in Genesis, or was that Exodus?

 

[-Mars-]

The Sumarians have evidence they existed around 8,000 BCE and actually, by Christian timelines, created glue before existence started.

If you have any sort of awareness of the "gap theory" (which I doubt), then you would know that the Bible never claims how long it took God to create the Earth.

Which means the Earth could be really old and the Sumerians existed at the time period everyone believes. I don't see where everyone is getting this strict 6,000 year number from.

Also to the thread creator- God tested Job, just like he tests believers even today. God allows Satan to do certain things on this Earth because he gave the Earths rule to Satan.

 

[Ryusuta]

Also to the thread creator- God tested Job, just like he tests believers even today. God allows Satan to do certain things on this Earth because he gave the Earths rule to Satan.

That, and the entirety of the Fox Reality TV line-up...

 

[illinialex24]

If you have any sort of awareness of the "gap theory" (which I doubt), then you would know that the Bible never claims how long it took God to create the Earth.

Which means the Earth could be really old and the Sumerians existed at the time period everyone believes. I don't see where everyone is getting this strict 6,000 year number from.

Also to the thread creator- God tested Job, just like he tests believers even today. God allows Satan to do certain things on this Earth because he gave the Earths rule to Satan.

Then God isn't a sweet kind loving god, if Satan rules the earth. And why would you want to have a personal relationship with God then if his people made in his own image are under the care of a person who lives to cause suffering?

 

[adumbrodeus]

*sigh.

Did... anyone read my post?

No.

Because moderates don't exist, and any explanation other then the Bible is 100% bunk or an exact and literalistic description of everything that ever happened is obviously conscious intellectual dishonesty..[/sarcasm]


Seriously, ever debate always devolves into those two sides and us moderates (not in terms of consciously attempting to choose a "moderate" position but believing a position that a neutral observer would classify as moderate) get drowned out by the two extreme camps.


Perfect example, in my school, there's a club called the "free thinkers", however the entire eboard of the club is hardcore anti-theist, and specifically chose a definition of "free thinker" which excludes anyone who is not atheist of some stripe to be framed as what defines the club. So essentially, according to them, everybody who is not an atheist is not a free thinker (yes, deists, agnostics, etc are not Free thinkers). And of course, at the other end they have a nice feud with our local Born Again Christian club, with neither side giving way.



It's rather sad actually.

 

[-Mars-]

Then God isn't a sweet kind loving god, if Satan rules the earth. And why would you want to have a personal relationship with God then if his people made in his own image are under the care of a person who lives to cause suffering?

God loves everyone, but he's also a just God. Adam is the whole cause of pain and suffering here on the Earth. God gave the human race one chance and they screwed it up. Christians are given the tools to combat Satan, it's not like God just abandons us here.

I'm going to start almost preaching here, so i'll stop before all the flaming happens. <_<

 

[Crimson King]

If you have any sort of awareness of the "gap theory" (which I doubt), then you would know that the Bible never claims how long it took God to create the Earth.

Which means the Earth could be really old and the Sumerians existed at the time period everyone believes. I don't see where everyone is getting this strict 6,000 year number from.

Also to the thread creator- God tested Job, just like he tests believers even today. God allows Satan to do certain things on this Earth because he gave the Earths rule to Satan.

The Sumarians also established a 24 hour day way before the bible was created. During the age the bible was popular, people were stupid, uneducated people, so when they said "a day" in the bible, they meant it. To suggest otherwise, is just picking and choosing what is literal and what is not. You say it's not an actual day, but then you say everything else about it is true? That's because science contradicts the 7 day creation, and the only way to explain that is by creating a bull**** theory.

Further proof that this "theory" is just bull****:

There have been many attempts over the years to harmonize the Genesis account of creation with accepted geology (and its teaching of billions of years for the age of the earth), such as “theistic evolution” and “progressive creation.”

The gap theory was another significant attempt by Christian theologians to reconcile the time scale of world history found in Genesis with the popular belief that geologists provide “undeniable” evidence that the world is exceedingly old (billions of years).

In this definition of it, it actually claims that the Earth being old is just a belief, instead of FACT using science. This is why Religion needs to stay very far from science; it doesn't work together.

 

[RDK]

That's assuming that 4000 B.C.E is a correct date. While carbon dating can give a good estimation of "when" i've read that radioisotope carbon-14 isn't always as accurate as scientists would like.

NO NO NO NO NO. No.

You don't know what you're talking about. Stop posting.

You have no idea how radiocarbon dating actually works, and you'll never know because you refuse to actually put thought into any of the sources we give you on the subject.

 

[Ryusuta]

God loves everyone, but he's also a just God. Adam is the whole cause of pain and suffering here on the Earth. God gave the human race one chance and they screwed it up.

Even setting aside the fact that the entire book of Genesis is OBVIOUSLY a metaphor...

God created Adam knowing what he would do. Essentially, there was no choice at all. Doesn't seem very fair to me.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Who knows, a lot of the bible could be a metaphor, or a moral for humans.

Its an established rule that to us, nothing will ever be fair. Not death, or loss of anything. But, depending on what you believe, you may find just cause. This is why there's faith in God, the belief of just cause and deliverance.

 

[Ryusuta]

So, people have faith in God in order to protect themselves. Again, these ideals don't seem entirely on the up-and-up. It's one of the thing I think I have the greatest distaste for in terms of Christian moralistic teachings, really: they rationalize judgments, reward cowardice, and punish rational skepticism.

 

[Crimson King]

Who knows, a lot of the bible could be a metaphor, or a moral for humans.

Its an established rule that to us, nothing will ever be fair. Not death, or loss of anything. But, depending on what you believe, you may find just cause. This is why there's faith in God, the belief of just cause and deliverance.

Then, you are saying that Jesus is a metaphor and didn't exist. If you really can say "Oh this part? It's a metaphor. But the part about stoning homosexuals and it being an abomination? TOTALLY true." Jesus isn't automatically safe. He is in the same book as a lot of fallacious stuff is, so to say everything but him is a metaphor is laughable.

 

[illinialex24]

NO NO NO NO NO. No.

You don't know what you're talking about. Stop posting.

You have no idea how radiocarbon dating actually works, and you'll never know because you refuse to actually put thought into any of the sources we give you on the subject.

Exactly.

Even setting aside the fact that the entire book of Genesis is OBVIOUSLY a metaphor...

God created Adam knowing what he would do. Essentially, there was no choice at all. Doesn't seem very fair to me.

Yeah, that is the only reasonable interpretation of Genesis.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Then, you are saying that Jesus is a metaphor and didn't exist. If you really can say "Oh this part? It's a metaphor. But the part about stoning homosexuals and it being an abomination? TOTALLY true." Jesus isn't automatically safe. He is in the same book as a lot of fallacious stuff is, so to say everything but him is a metaphor is laughable.

I never specified which parts are metaphors, neither did I claim every part but those of Jesus. I feel like Genesis is, and Revelations was either a foreshadow or a metaphor itself. This subject is very controversial I should watch what I say. God is very specific, and he's loving, but so are parents, but they are easily angered aswell.

 

[Crimson King]

No, you don't follow. If Genesis is metaphorical, then so are other parts. Several books have no basis in history, and other parts have been ripped from stories that were told over and over again.

God is not all loving. If he was, then why create hell? Hell, by definition, is the absence of God. Meaning, when he casts you into hell, he is saying he is done with you. That is not all loving.

Then you have the fact that God is supposed to be all loving, all knowing, and all powerful, but that's also not the case. He gave us free-will, but he knows what we will do, so we really don't have free will OR he can't affect our free choices. With the former he is not all loving, but with the later, he is not all powerful.

 

[Steel]

He doesn't send you to hell, you willingly choose to go there if you don't love him back. But we have no idea if people are actually sent to hell, we should just know that it exists.

You're saying he is not all powerful because he let's us do whatever we please? Sounds like a loving thing to do.. not force you to do anything.

 

[RDK]

He doesn't send you to hell, you willingly choose to go there if you don't love him back

He created us, ipso facto he's responsible for every single thing we do, directly or indirectly. Plus, he created hell, so yeah, he sends us there. If he didn't create it (or us, for that matter) nobody would go there.

But we have no idea if people are actually sent to hell, we should just know that it exists.

Why does it exist if nobody goes there? Seems a bit wasteful.

Isn't wastefulness one of those sin thingies?

You're saying he is not all powerful because he let's us do whatever we please? Sounds like a loving thing to do.. not force you to do anything.

Sure, he just sends you to be tortured for eternity if you don't follow him. That's worlds better.

 

[Deleted member]

Everybody stop posting; RDK just said "ipso facto". Debate over.

 

[Crimson King]

He doesn't send you to hell, you willingly choose to go there if you don't love him back. But we have no idea if people are actually sent to hell, we should just know that it exists.

You're saying he is not all powerful because he let's us do whatever we please? Sounds like a loving thing to do.. not force you to do anything.

Actually, we DON'T know it exists. People "believe" it does, but there is no real proof, and there never will be.

He has to be all loving, all powerful, and all knowing due to many definitions of him. If he lets you do choose as you wish, but knows what you are going to do and knows that you are going to go to hell, then that is not all loving. If he can't stop you, then that is not all powerful.

 

[illinialex24]

No, you don't follow. If Genesis is metaphorical, then so are other parts. Several books have no basis in history, and other parts have been ripped from stories that were told over and over again.

God is not all loving. If he was, then why create hell? Hell, by definition, is the absence of God. Meaning, when he casts you into hell, he is saying he is done with you. That is not all loving.

Then you have the fact that God is supposed to be all loving, all knowing, and all powerful, but that's also not the case. He gave us free-will, but he knows what we will do, so we really don't have free will OR he can't affect our free choices. With the former he is not all loving, but with the later, he is not all powerful.

First of all, Genesis is very disconnected from the rest of the Bible, so saying Genesis is metaphorical is a lot different than saying Deuteronomy is metaphorical. The latter would pretty much force you to believe Leviticus and most of the Bible is metaphorical, while Genesis would just make you suspicious.

Next, God is not all loving. Job is enough to counter that view. Giving the Earth to Satan because we failed him and we knew we were going to fail him is the exact opposite of loving. Next, God being all powerful is also pretty wrong (if God as the Bible says he is exists), because we see him with very strong morals at the start of the Biblebut change his views because the people forsake him so much and instead of killing someone for holding idols he lets them live and just curses them. That means that humans can shape God, and by using the Bible to show this, he is not all powerful.

 

[Ryusuta]

He doesn't send you to hell, you willingly choose to go there if you don't love him back. But we have no idea if people are actually sent to hell, we should just know that it exists.

You're saying he is not all powerful because he let's us do whatever we please? Sounds like a loving thing to do.. not force you to do anything.

Tell me, is free will truly free if your choices are already known before you make them - really, before you even exist?

Think VERY carefully before you answer this one.

 

[Steel]

Well let's see..

I am allergic to peanuts.. my mother sets down a bag of peanuts and some pieces of fruit for me to choose what I want to eat. My mother KNOWS that I will choose the fruit for obvious reasons, but does that take away my freedom to choose the peanuts?

 

[RDK]

Well let's see..

I am allergic to peanuts.. my mother sets down a bag of peanuts and some pieces of fruit for me to choose what I want to eat. My mother KNOWS that I will choose the fruit for obvious reasons, but does that take away my freedom to choose the peanuts?

You're mother didn't predetermine before the beginning of time that you'd have an allergic reaction if you ate peanuts, and then give you the power to eat those peanuts.

Put this way, God seems like an incredible **** more than anything else.

 

[arrowhead]

your mother doesn't KNOW, she is very certain. you could've been crazy at the time and pick the peanuts.

but according to christians, god KNOWS, which means there is only ONE possible path the future can take. that eliminates the choice for obvious reasons.

 

[Crimson King]

That is a horrible example. You have no choice but to choose fruit because you will die if you choose peanuts. That is called a planned choice. It's like me saying "You are either a drunk or a starving, black space alien." Since the latter clearly isn't a choice, you have to be a drunk.