Which characters do you think are gonna get nerfed?

[Lil Puddin]

Topic title, ofc. Will probably be half salt-fueled and half data-fueled, but all opinions are valid. Unless it's something hilariously wrong like "Wow Robin is sooooo OP and oppressive!" then you might get some blowback lolrip.

I think the most obvious ones are the several characters who have no true weaknesses (Inkling the Hedgehog). Or characters who have too much going for them in one particular area that makes them too awkwardly lopsided (Fire Kitty A N G E R Y downB). My main vote is Inkling for sure since they weren't properly balanced - since "o they got everything and are fast but they run out of paint which they can manually replenish/not all their moves need anyway!!!" is basically a horrible way to balance a character. King K Rool is also another one, although he's not without weaknesses (he still has so much going for him), but because he has too many crutches (cheese that can actually be fatal since he has more than 1 form of cheese to throw out).

OFC I'd be willing to forgive King K Rool's cheese if Zelda actually got some of that. Or his attack range. Or his KB angles. Or his attack power.

 

[ｐｓ＿]

I predict K. Rool will be nerfed. Too many complaints about him being cheap, though I don't agree with any of them (he's a character I beat super consistently.)

But given what happened with Sm4sh I think everyone with any power whatsoever will end up nerfed. The game will end up stale as a result. It'll fool bad players into thinking the development team cares, and it will pave the way for $5 fighters who dominate so hard they you simply have to buy them if you want to compete (see: Cloud, Bayonetta.)

 

[ZephyrZ]

I predict K. Rool will be nerfed. Too many complaints about him being cheap, though I don't agree with any of them (he's a character I beat super consistently.)

But given what happened with Sm4sh I think everyone with any power whatsoever will end up nerfed. The game will end up stale as a result. It'll fool bad players into thinking the development team cares, and it will pave the way for $5 fighters who dominate so hard they you simply have to buy them if you want to compete (see: Cloud, Bayonetta.)

Actually 4 had great balancing before the end. Nerfs generally weren't super significant (Diddy and Sheik were relevent throughout Smash 4's entire life) and significant balance changes usually took the form of buffs (Bowser and DK for instance).

It wasn't until the very end when I think the balance team just kind of gave up, but even then there were still plenty of base roster characters who were still completely viable. Diddy and Sheik were still in top tier like Cloud and Bayo you know, and the high tiers were still pretty diverse.

 

[ｐｓ＿]

Actually 4 had great balancing before the end. Nerfs generally weren't super significant (Diddy and Sheik were relevent throughout Smash 4's entire life) and significant balance changes usually took the form of buffs (Bowser and DK for instance).

It wasn't until the very end when I think the balance team just kind of gave up, but even then there were still plenty of base roster characters who were still completely viable. Diddy and Sheik were still in top tier like Cloud and Bayo you know, and the high tiers were still pretty diverse.

Diddy is powerful, but if you boil it down he was the only base character who could compare to DLC at all. Free characters who were initially considered powerful (Shiek, Rosalina, Metaknight) fell off hard early into the game's life, and it really can't be stated enough how much of a joke Sm4sh ended up being purely because of Bayonetta. "High tiers" ended up little more than plebs squabbling among themselves in the mud, well below 3 guys indisputably sat at the top, two of whom cost money to play.

I predict something similar with this game. Maybe if you're lucky the Fire Emblem guys will remain powerful, guarding the moneybags echelon from below like a metrosexual vanguard.

 

[Nepht]

Played enough punchy face games to know for some reason it is always the lowest tier fighters that get nerfed first :I

 

[ZephyrZ]

Diddy is powerful, but if you boil it down he was the only base character who could compare to DLC at all. Free characters who were initially considered powerful (Shiek, Rosalina, Metaknight) fell off hard early into the game's life, and it really can't be stated enough how much of a joke Sm4sh ended up being purely because of Bayonetta. "High tiers" ended up little more than plebs squabbling among themselves in the mud, well below 3 guys indisputably sat at the top, two of whom cost money to play.

I predict something similar with this game. Maybe if you're lucky the Fire Emblem guys will remain powerful, guarding the moneybags echelon from below like a metrosexual vanguard.

https://smashboards.com/tiers/#WiiU

Sheik is S-tier on the current Smash 4 tier list you know. Melee Fox gets his own tier while Smash 4 Bayo doesn't. Corrin, who came after Cloud, is only B-tier. Let's not even talk about Roy. Mario, Sonic, Rosa, Fox, Zamus, and Marth are all A-tier and still had significant tournament presence even just before Ultimate released.

I won't lie, I think Bayo was very toxic to Smash 4's community, but I don't think that there was intentional malice behind their balance as both of them were given significant weakness (Bayo's landing lag, Cloud's horredous recovery). I just think they were just a tad bit rushed and clearly lacked fine-tuning. Bayo just happened to be really nasty because she's such an gimmicky character that it's hard too balance her without making her way too OP or way too underpowered. Had Smash 4 balance patches lasted for even a little longer we would have seen her and Cloud some more nerfs. Heck the last balance patch we did receive was basically just to nerf Bayo.

I can understand people being suspicious in the current gaming landscape but I think people can be overly cynical at times to. Bayo isn't the Brawl Meta Knight people made her out to be, and Nintendo isn't anywhere close to near EA levels of corrupt.

And let's be honest even worse then Bayo herself was the immaturity of a lot of the community on both sides of the Bayo controversy. The reason for competitive Smash 4 being seen as a joke runs deeper then Bayo herself - the Fighting game community has always looked down on Smash players, and Smash 4 especially. There's a reason you see the term "nerf culture" getting thrown around so much these days.

 

[Call_Me_Red]

I pray that King K doesn't get nerfed. He really doesn't have a lot going for him as it is. I would be heartbroken if they took anything away from him.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I predict the Inklings will get nerfed. The roller is just too annoying as it is. And the ink mechanic is kind of broken too.

 

[Call_Me_Red]

I predict the Inklings will get nerfed. The roller is just too annoying as it is. And the ink mechanic is kind of broken too.

I don't understand why people think roller is broken? Just jump, shield, or attack. It's no different than Jigglypuff rollout, or squirtle side-b, or Bowser Jr side-b. It has no priority, it's predictable, easy to punish, and uses a ton of ink putting them in a huge disadvantage if they miss.

But I do agree, ink is annoying

 

[RealPokeFan11]

I HIGHLY guarantee that K. Rool is gonna get a major nerf next patch. While he's my current main, and super fun to play as, he really needs to be toned down. I think his armor's durability needs to get reduced, his crown should not go through shields, and his super armor should be removed from some of his specials. Alpharad's video on him explains it well.

Also Inkling may need a small nerf to his/her forward Smash, ink, and a small decrease to the roller's bury duration. Other than that, the roller seems fine and completely balanced

 

[Call_Me_Red]

I HIGHLY guarantee that K. Rool is gonna get a major nerf next patch. While he's my current main, and super fun to play as, he really needs to be toned down. I think his armor's durability needs to get reduced, his crown should not go through shields, and his super armor should be removed from some of his specials. Alpharad's video on him explains it well.

Also Inkling may need a small nerf to his/her forward Smash as well as the roller's bury duration. Other than that, the roller seems fine.

I will preach this all day, K Rool isn't even good, much less OP. He does not need to be toned down because people can't consistently beat him 2 weeks into the game. He has glaring weaknesses and his only saving grace is his super armor, projectiles, and recovery. If he was toned down even a little, in 2 more weeks he would be bottom tier, I guarantee it.

If you go to the "Tournament Results" thread in the Competitve Discussion forum, there are 12 King K placements out of well over 350 entries, and at least half of those 12 are as a secondary. He is no where near top tier or OP.

 

[Kairyu24]

The specific ink values are easy to chanfe to nerf Inkling fairly. Both the damage boost and apply/dissapear ratio can be easily tinkered with. It’s easy to see as a tweak instead of a harsh nerf. Maybe that’s why nobody dislikes inklings outright.

Maybe Chrom might get powered down a bit to make Roy shine more and make Chrom less oppressive? I’m not quite sure how much Roy gains on a sweetspot on Chrom, but I hardly see mention of his power at all, which weirds me out.

 

[Aemuli]

It's way to early in the game to be predicting nerfs or buffs for characters in my opinion. As ZeRo said it's not gonna be till after a few majors until people can actually fully determine the extent of each character's individual abilities in the meta. Unless it's something like painfully obvious like the Chrombo or something that gives you an easy kill within the game at 0%; I don't think anyone should being pulling out the buff/nerf hammer anytime soon.

 

[Lil Puddin]

I pray that King K doesn't get nerfed. He really doesn't have a lot going for him as it is. I would be heartbroken if they took anything away from him.

He does have quite a lot going for him, but suffers just as all giant-hurtbox enemies do (combo food). However, the cheese he has offers too many crutches for just 1 character to have. It really looks like a case of oversights more so than intentional things (early bottom stage spike, simple n effective edge guard, early upward KO with UpB).

It's way to early in the game to be predicting nerfs or buffs for characters in my opinion. As ZeRo said it's not gonna be till after a few majors until people can actually fully determine the extent of each character's individual abilities in the meta. Unless it's something like painfully obvious like the Chrombo or something that gives you an easy kill within the game at 0%; I don't think anyone should being pulling out the buff/nerf hammer anytime soon.

Painfully obvious, ye. Like Inkling in general, amirite?

 

[Call_Me_Red]

He does have quite a lot going for him, but suffers just as all giant-hurtbox enemies do (combo food). However, the cheese he has offers too many crutches for just 1 character to have. It really looks like a case of oversights more so than intentional things (early bottom stage spike, simple n effective edge guard, early upward KO with UpB).

Sure he has crutches, but Little Mac has crutches too, and Mac is still bottom tier.

King K has massive kill power because his neutral game is so bad. He's so heavy because he will literally get combo'd to death before even landing a hit (Metaknight and Fox destroy King K). His edge guarding is good, but his recovery is extremely exploitable. He has superarmor but it easily breaks, and when he's in risk of breaking, some of his best moves are no longer viable. On top of that every thing he does is slow with little range, it is very easy to avoid all of his attacks. He has items, his crown is decent but puts him in a ton of lag (throwing and picking up) and can be used against him. He doesn't do well against projectiles, especially one he provides for you. His cannonball is a joke and you should feel bad if it hits or grabs you. Up-B killing is a gimmick and again, you should feel bad if you get hit by it. Both of his spikes are extremely slow and predictable, mix up your recovery.

Sure, he has gimmicks, but they are not nearly enough to warrant a nerf.

 

[REZERO]

K. Rool will probably not get nerfed. Nintendo has the Elite mode for other reasons (probably character winrate percentages) and I BET that K. Rool doesn't do very well at higher levels of play.

I foresee incoming Inkling nerf and Pikachu/Pichu nerfs.

 

[SmashBro99]

I pray that King K doesn't get nerfed. He really doesn't have a lot going for him as it is. I would be heartbroken if they took anything away from him.

This, hes really not good, but one of my favorite characters, it'd be a shame if they nerfed him because baddies fall for his super obvious stuff and cried about it.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Not King K. Rool. People who say he's broken need to git gud.

Probably the Belmonts and/or Pikachu.

 

[Call_Me_Red]

Not King K. Rool. People who say he's broken need to git gud.

Probably the Belmonts and/or Pikachu.

I agree with everything else, but Belmonts don't need nerfs either. They're good now, but I think they're another character that'll get worse with time due to matchup knowledge.

 

[Slugma128]

I predict K. Rool will be nerfed. Too many complaints about him being cheap, though I don't agree with any of them (he's a character I beat super consistently.)

But given what happened with Sm4sh I think everyone with any power whatsoever will end up nerfed. The game will end up stale as a result. It'll fool bad players into thinking the development team cares, and it will pave the way for $5 fighters who dominate so hard they you simply have to buy them if you want to compete (see: Cloud, Bayonetta.)

First of all, I love you sig pic! She had such a fat butt in Sm4sh, now it is all fit.

Yes, K Rool has to be nerfed. Too many of his attacks has super armor, which makes him an insane edge guarder. Remove some super armor and he would be better balanced.

Also, Cloud is as annoying as always, as is Pikachu and Inkling (the splat roller is not just overpowered in Splatoon 2, but also here).

Cloud might not be that good in a 1 on 1, but in a free for all his 4,567,432 hit frames per attack are cheap as heck.

 

[HotelSoapy!]

Im seeing a lot of KRool and Inkling in elite smash so if anyone gets nerf im expecting it to be those two. IMO the splat rollers bury duration is just stupid.

 

[Slugma128]

the splat rollers bury duration is just stupid.

Could not agree more.

 

[RealPokeFan11]

Also, Cloud is as annoying as always, as is Pikachu and Inkling (the splat roller is not just overpowered in Splatoon 2, but also here).

Cloud might not be that good in a 1 on 1, but in a free for all his 4,567,432 hit frames per attack are cheap as heck.

Cloud is surprisingly balanced in this game compared to Smash 4 where he was slightly overpowered. And thank god Bayonetta isn't cancer anymore!

 

[Arrei]

I'd say a few extremely powerful combos stand the greatest chance of getting nerfed. The first one that comes to mind is Luigi's 0-death combo, which I'm predicting will get axed by buffing his Dair's spike BKB. At least, that's the only part of the combo I can see being changed that won't heavily affect Luigi's entire game plan.

The Meta Knight Uair string into a ridiculously early tornado kill also seems sus to me, as both this combo and the Luigi one cannot be DIed, but I have no idea how they could nerf MK without seriously affecting his overall performance.

Basically I figure, given the kind of game they want Ultimate to be, no one seems overly powerful enough to warrant nerfing the character entirely, but there are a few outliers that just throw the whole balance scale out of whack that need to be dealt with. Apart from those, I want to see buffs more than nerfs.

 

[DynamicMoves]

At a guess, Inkling and Chrom.

 

[Deleted member]

Inking speed will probably be reduced.

 

[Slugma128]

Cloud is surprisingly balanced in this game compared to Smash 4 where he was slightly overpowered. And thank god Bayonetta isn't cancer anymore!

How is he balanced? He still has insane hit frames for most of his attacks which means his attacks barely require timing. I 4 player battles with a bit of random lag that often happens, that is a huge advantage.

 

[zipzo]

I will preach this all day, K Rool isn't even good, much less OP. He does not need to be toned down because people can't consistently beat him 2 weeks into the game. He has glaring weaknesses and his only saving grace is his super armor, projectiles, and recovery. If he was toned down even a little, in 2 more weeks he would be bottom tier, I guarantee it.

If you go to the "Tournament Results" thread in the Competitve Discussion forum, there are 12 King K placements out of well over 350 entries, and at least half of those 12 are as a secondary. He is no where near top tier or OP.

At the same time, tournament placements are hardly indicative of a need for balance adjustments. I really doubt Sakurai or anyone on the balance team is observing tournament placements alone in their deduction as to whether a character deserves a nerf or not. There's probably tons of factors, and I guarantee you more than once you're going to see nerfs that you won't understand if you truly think tournament results are distinctly the only meaningful information that team uses to change the balance.

 

[Call_Me_Red]

At the same time, tournament placements are not indicative of a need for balance adjustments. I really doubt Sakurai or anyone on the balance team is observing tournament placements alone in their deduction as to whether a character deserves a nerf or not. There's probably tons of factors, and I guarantee you more than once you're going to see nerfs that you won't understand if you think tournament results are distinctly the only meaningful case study as to who is needing adjustments.

Of course, I realize this is also a party game, and for the casual player King K is a monster. I obviously don't want any nerfs that will affect his competitive viability, but there has to be some change that could keep him viable and also make him more casual friendly. I'm not a game designer and I don't have the solution, but surely there's a best of both worlds here.

 

[KingBroly]

I feel like Inkling won't be nerfed for a while so they can bring in some Splatoon players into Smash. Same goes for Pikachu and Pichu. I just see a marketing attempt going on there, and I figured Inkling would be Top Tier months before launch.

I think Peach and Daisy will get hit with some nerfs. I also think they'll nerf Zero Suit Samus again, despite needing some buffs. I also think they'll nerf Ganondorf and Olimar.