Whats sonic best neutral and/or counterpick?

[MalcolmM]

Im jus wondering what the consensus is on whats sonics best neutral and what were some common countepicks that give sonic an advantadge. I love battlefield...but i could b crazy. I have heard smashville is pretty awesome...as is delfino...but i dont do nearly as well on those stages...so thats what got me wondering.

As far as counterpicks go...if i dont CP battlefield...or rainbow cruise against olimar...i almost ALWAYS go pictochat...i just love the stage when im sonic...he adapts well to most of the hazards and it has REALLY high ceilings so off-top kills from characters like snake G&W and the likes....are not nearly as brutal. then there is the whole sky roll thing which i have worked in on occasion...but thats more for flashiness than anything else lol. any thoughts on that? or amazing sonic counterpicks in general?...i kno corneria was once thought to b a good CP...so discuss?

 

[Tenki]

it really depends on your style of play, imo.

I like my springs. Battlefield kills that for me, and so I suck at that level.

people who like gimping won't like some parts of Castle Siege/Bridge either.

 

[FrostByte]

Smashville is probably his best stage. He isn't too vunerable to camping there and the platform is easy for him to reach because of his speed. There isn't enough space for him to run around on battlefield and will have to play a really defensive game of grabbing and abusing upsmash/tilt/air under platforms. FD is good as always. Corneria is a pretty good counter due to ASC killing at such a low %

 

[Tenki]

Random nooby question:

What do you guys do to get under a platform in Battlefield?
- walk/roll off the platform
- stand on platform and hold down
- jump and hold down

I'm not sure which one's the safest/quickest option.

I hate having to hold down while standing on the platform since there's so much lag time on that, and I usually get u-smashed or something stupid like that. The dumbest part is that I'm used to doing it, and you can't air dodge through a platform, I think.

 

[MalcolmM]

u can always shield drop through a platform...that way u dont get up smashed...thats what i would do if i were u...and i was fearing things such as an up-smash or snakes up tilt. put ur shield up and lightly tilt the analog stick down....its very useful for escaping that below platform pressure. but most of the time....if im not @ the kill %s...i jus run off the platform. standing on the platform and holding down...is like the most unreliable way (IMO)...i always find sonic looking silly and jus crouching...lol

 

[TwinkleToes]

For me, there are two things I consider:
1) Gimp possiblities
2) Distancing

For 1, that means I don't want ANY stages with walk-offs, water, or platforms with no ceilings (like on Delfino). Also, fewer random platforms like on Yoshi's and Pit's stages are desirable.

For 2, I need wide spaces so I can run or spring to safety. Preferably flat stages but not necessarily. Excessive platforms tend to pose some problems, but I look at that on a character-to-character basis.

In general, from best to worst I try to go for Final Destination (spacing and gimping are both easy), Corneria (spacing is easy and gimping is reasonably easy), Smashville (decent spacing and gimping), Pokemon Stadium I (easy spacing w/ spring), Yoshi's Story (easy spacing), and Battlefield (good for gimping, spacing can be tricky).

I dislike Pictochat because it's not a particularly easy level to gimp on due to the high pit, and I feel that the obstacles present greater opportunities for my opponents to corner me.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Smashville. I almost never lose on there. PS1 is nice too.

 

[Umby]

Smashville and Corneria. Pokemon Stadium has its ups and downs, but I like him there too. The one thing I like about Yoshi's Story is how you can utilize the dips near the edge to your favor when using Side B.

 

[TwinkleToes]

^That is useful but I find the random platforms on the side save my enemies from death a whole lot more than it saves me. Still an overall great level for Sonic though.

 

[darkNES386]

I hate rainbow cruise.... any level where an opponent can be on a different "level/platform" makes Sonic work harder and takes away his ground speed which yeah... enough said. I have a new found hatred for the Lylat level and those stupid platforms/angled ground.

it really depends on your style of play, imo.

I like my springs. Battlefield kills that for me, and so I suck at that level.

people who like gimping won't like some parts of Castle Siege/Bridge either.

I have to agree with Tenki. As cool as battlefield can be for "combos" and chases with the platforms, smart players will always keep Sonic on their level or above them. The platforms can limit Sonic's approach options and also make his homeattack virtually useless if the opponent is on ground level.

Random nooby question:

What do you guys do to get under a platform in Battlefield?

My opinion and what I do are two different things. I tend to shield and/or roll under. I believe though that the fastest and safest way is to run and shield off a side (maybe this only works well with someone as fast as Sonic). You instantly turn it into an air dodge. I'm going to try and use that one more often. Let's face it, you're in a defensive position (at least with Sonic) so you should consider an option that is as safe as possible.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Halberd almost always works out for me as a counter pick.

Part of the reason for that is no one seems to play it. They all love the nuetral stages. So the hazzards work for me. The pass through platform works well with the massive spring jump and for homing(BE VERY CAREFUL WITH THAT THOUGH. Danimals v LuCKy comes to mind) and you can still stage spike on bridge of the ship.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Battle field=worst

I tend to play more aerially rather than the ground and battlefield tends to hurt me at times. lack of homing attack means I can't punish as easily and sometimes I really have to be careful since it can be annoying with an opponent hiding under the platform.

I prefer something more along the lines of FD and smashville .
nice and flat where I can take full advantage of my springs.

Spring~Dair definitely is nice to use.

 

[TwinkleToes]

BF is your worst? Even against Pikachu and Snake?

 

[MalcolmM]

I really dont think u guys r giving BF a chance lol.


I'm starting to agree with Tenki, its up to playstyle. Alot of people just seemed to play a more FLAT ground sonic. But i did see alot of yoshis so maybe ill see how that works out.

As for corneria., i used to like the stage b4 i got the game because in theory sonic should b able to finally get an early kill. But after playing against people who remembered its purpose in melee (CAMPING) i have since changed my mind. But if u really feel its that good (its like top 2 on your top stages twinkletoes) I will revisit it and see if maybe I can use it to my advantadge. Im also leaning towards not picking rainbow cruise against olimar anymore since i played one recently and he didnt approach me until after he had camped every platform just throwing pikmin and i was @ 100%.

But more-so than the neutral argument im REALLY interested in what people are picking for counterpicks. All videos on youtube are always FD or smashville (LOL) with no counterpicks whatsoever which I think is REALLY limiting sonic since as i stated before most times those stages WILL BE BANNED when you go to tournament.

I was just wondering if anyone had dabbled with the CP's just to see which ones they think are either a) good against the character (the character fighting the stage) or b) good for sonic (compliments sonic's moveset and abilities well) and was willing to share that knowledge. As i said, I have messed around with pictochat and I like it. Other people hate the high ceilings because it takes longer to kill with spring to up-air, but I havent hit anyone @ tourney with spring to up-air since like the first or second week i went. So i havent been basing my stage choices around that.

Please dont assume that because I cant "****" with spring > up -air for off top kills that I have no clue how to play sonic. I am just trying to get help with my stage selection @ tournament since once i get to counterpick as sonic I am unable to find a stage that really benefits me that isnt banned. I do respect everyones opinions and I am sure you are all good players so lets just hypothetically say your opponent has spring to up-air down to a science and chances are you just will not catch the move. Where do u counter pick? Since we r assuming tournament lets assume tournament-esque characters such as Snake, MK, Rob, Falco, Marth and DDD


EDIT: Trying to tone down the wall of text

 

[TwinkleToes]

So.... why would FD and SV be banned in tournaments?

 

[joenopride]

Well, I don't know what to suggest since spring>uair is an awesome tactic. Gimp killing with the spring or neutral b can be important, so having edges is nice, but I guess you can run around and camp the edges with walkoffs if you want to.

 

[MalcolmM]

because people can BAN stages... just like if u play a DDD u BAN delfino and probably Castle Siege for the walk offs? The tournament I go to has two bans and a stage strike. So that means they can BAN FD which is extremely common since it tends to promote a long match with its ridiculous kill zones then they can BAN Corneria or Smashville. If they ban corneria and we go random and smashville comes up they can use there ONE STAGE STRIKE to re-do the random. So u can concievably lose out on these 3 stages. These rules arent uncommon and in all honesty are extremely fair. While they may not b the best for sonic...they sure do help escape alot of annoying things like abusing the ledges on Norfair or infinites on delfino or donkey kongs Down B on luigi mansion or metaknight on rainbow cruise.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

BF is your worst? Even against Pikachu and Snake?

Why would you bring Snake to BF? Not saying it's dumb, I just don't get the advantage.

I usually ban BF if I'm fighting a Snake if only because a single tilt that doesn't kill you gives him alot of stage control with his mines. A remote on the first set of platforms controls that platform and all the map below it. A proxie on another makes it very difficult for sonic to be able to move around at all. Not to mention Up Smashes from beneath the platforms. I, personally, don't get it.

I like BF against some characters, Kirby springs to mind. But against Snake I tend to find FD works out far better for me.

 

[MalcolmM]

Yeah I tend to avoid BF with snake. Snake controls the map waaaaaaaaaaay better than sonic can..FD (as far as neutrals go) is probably your best bet. He controls the other neutrals with the platforms or just flat out grenade camping. Sadly tho...snakes tend to ban FD. The snake I play in tournament we always end up on PS1 or Delfino simply because of the stage strikes and bans. Any thoughts on a good snake counter pick? I have considered rainbow cruise since he has such a poor aerial game, but I have a feeling he could camp to no end on that stage. Or maybe Brinstar? The stage is odd and a C4 on a platform wouldnt give him COMPLETE control of the level. not too mention the lava would force him to move around....sounds good? or no?

BF is REALLLLLY good against small characters IMO since they cant abuse the platforms too bad and they become easier targets when they r on platforms.

 

[TwinkleToes]

I think when you're facing Snake you're overall strategy needs to be one of pressure so he doesn't get any chances to use his explosives. Ergo, smaller stages=better.

 

[da K.I.D.]

is hanenbow a CP cause i fair very well with sonic on that stage b/c i can always coose my positioning, and pulling out random spring up airs can be very satisfying. and its easy to get away from a bad situation by down airing than springing from just about anywhere.

 

[MalcolmM]

its not legal in the NYC weeklies i go to, but some places do allow it so please discuss it more. The one complaint ive heard about hannebow is that its a camp fest. how do u combat that type of play on hanenbow as sonic? snake rob & toon link come to mind. I figure against Rob and most projectile characters u can go for an all out offense, right?But what about snake? Isnt hanenbow enormous? I dont have much experience since it isnt a legal CP @ the weekly so im all ears!

joenopride: Thats how i feel...i dont kno what to pick when i get the chance because my once bread and butter move has become as easy to smash DI out of as pikachu's downsmash and as easy to predict/avoid as DDD's F-smash. So thats why i have turned to other sonic mains in some attempt to find a stage that will benefit Sonic. The way i see it is if we can come up with a good sonic stage then we have another option to go to OR it will force our opponents to ban that stage instead of both FD and smashville.