What's our best MU?

[Theosmeo]

I'm curious what you guys think, I've heard Olimar, Wario, and D3 but I think they all go even with us at least.

I think the top tier we're the best against is Fox but I think we still lose, and a lot of low tiers are quite tough, like Zelda or Marth.

My money's on jigglypuff, easy to kill and we beat a lot of its options with Uair. No spike either. It might be tough to avoid walls of pain but those don't really exist in Smash 4. I shouldn't write it off though because I haven't played any good jigs

 

[verbatim]

Top Tier:

• Ness
• Fox

Rationale: Both characters have very gimpable recoveries (especially Fox), will be hit by both dtilt and ftilt if they don't tech a Flame Choke, you can kill Fox ridiculously early out of a misplaced side b, and you can actually jump over PK Fire with default Wizard's Foot.

Notes: I think Ganondorf does slightly better against Meta Knight than the rest of the top tiers because of how linear MK's approach options are + again vulnerability to Flame Choke, but you're literally going to die if you get hit by a Dash Attack against a high level one.



High Tier:

• Luigi

Rationale: Luigi's slow air speed means he really can't ultra zone you out if you can reliably powershield fireballs. That and the fact that a Luigi who is forced to recover with down or side b is immediately dead.

Notes: The Wario matchup is kind of playable if the opponent isn't patient, but Ganondorf hard loses to good Wario's (gets camped out, cannot approach at all).

Mid Tier:

• Olimar

Rationale: It's incredibly easy for Olimar to wall out Ganondorf, but if you have on point powershields and yomi Ganondorf has the best punish game in the game on Olimar. If an Olimar doesn't tech a Flame Choke they can die to a Down Smash as early as 60%. Stomping their recovery is certainly the most showy, but in a more practical sense Olimar's recovery is hard countered by tipman. (knock them off stage--> hold ledge --> interrupt their up b with tipman --> repeat until tipman kills off the side). As an added note, ftilt/jab/dash attack beat out every Pikmin throw with the exception of Purple Fsmash, against which they clank. Autocanceled bair/nair and dash attack are usually the best way to knock Pikmin off of you.

Low Tier:

• IDK

Notes: I'm friends with a Jigglypuff player that is powerranked in my region, and we both agree that Ganondorf hard loses to Jigglypuff. Ganondorf's recovery/fall speed/lack of combo breaker make him one of and quite possibly the easiest characters in the game for Jigglypuff to wall of pain gimp. Sure he only needs 5-6 hits to kill Jigglypuff, but Jigglypuff only needs one fair to kill Ganondorf.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Frankly, I would think that Jigglypuff has it the worst, as it lacks the reach that Ganondorf has with his attacks.

 

[Z1GMA]

Imo: Mewtwo, Wario, B.Jr.

 

[Vermanubis]

I'm always uncomfortable commenting on MUs I haven't faced the best in, but Wario seems like he'd be a candidate. Jiggs, Palutena, Mac and Samus are all really good for Ganon, relatively speaking, I feel. In terms of tiers:

Top:
High: Mario
Mid: Luigi, Wario maybe Olimar
Low: Kirby, Mac
Bottom: Palutena, Samus, Jiggs

 

[Shmeckie]

In my personal experience, one of Ganon's best MUs, hands down, is Little Mac. The only thing Mac has over Ganon is speed and armored smashes. Ganon hits harder, recovers better, can edgeguard him effortlessly, Mac can't edgeguard Ganon at all, and he's the only character who can't even escape a d-tilt follow up from Flame Choke by teching. Flame Choke negates his smash attack armor, and he's got to deal with a d-tilt follow-up from it he only has a 50% chance of escaping. Mac is both lightweight, and lacks recovery, meaning a basic f-tilt punish can end him. One of the things Mac has going for him is his attack power on the ground, and Ganon has him beat there. The only thing Mac has that's truly a danger to Ganon is the KO Punch... which Ganon can instantly take away from him with one choke>tilt combo, or a d-tilt poke to an aerial follow-up. And if he misses the punch, he's all manner of screwed.

 

[adom4]

I'm always uncomfortable commenting on MUs I haven't faced the best in, but Wario seems like he'd be a candidate. Jiggs, Palutena, Mac and Samus are all really good for Ganon, relatively speaking, I feel. In terms of tiers:

Top:
High: Mario
Mid: Luigi, Wario maybe Olimar
Low: Kirby, Mac
Bottom: Palutena, Samus, Jiggs

idk if we beat Samus, Zair is a *****, i'd say it's even.
Also i think we do well vs Roy and Yoshi, i don't know if we beat them but i don't feel like we lose either.

 

[Parisienne]

I think Ganondorf's best matchup is, quite frankly, another Ganondorf. I think he loses every character matchup. Fortunately he can punish the tendencies of humans very well.

 

[Theosmeo]

Bottom: Palutena, Samus, Jiggs

Palutena? I'm pretty scrubby so I'm not super on top of it but I have a lot of trouble with her...

 

[Vermanubis]

Palutena? I'm pretty scrubby so I'm not super on top of it but I have a lot of trouble with her...

It'd take a while to list out the specifics, but she lacks range, can't afford to make many mistakes against us, lacks kill power, and so forth. She's not a free win, naturally, since she has annoying things like jab setups, but her game is all about careful spacing, and we just tank her in that respect.

 

[Strong-Arm]

Not going to lie, I may sound crazy, but Ganon is gonna give Bayonetta a hard time

 

[Theosmeo]

Maybe, I think her neutral B will destroy all of our approaches but that's just me

 

[Parisienne]

I think you may be crazy, as I think this matchup is super duper free.

One thing I'll say is, getting hit by a read is gonna kill pretty early due to weight, although that for the most part is witch time-able.

 

[krazyzyko]

Imo: Mewtwo, Wario, B.Jr.

Jr can wall out, zone and combo Ganon for days.

 

[adom4]

Jr can wall out, zone and combo Ganon for days.

We don't beat Jr. but it really isn't one sided, his Fair gimps give him the edge.
He's choke food & he's very easy to string because of his physics, add to that a vulnerable recovery & he's never really that safe, also his "gimmick" is mostly helpful for us since most of our attacks hit high & do a crapton of damage.
On the other hand he combos us hard & the juggles can be brutal, his disjointed moveset is annoying as well & his Fair is very good offstage against us because of the lasting hitbox.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Jigglypuff for sure, no need to approach her.

 

[TurboLink]

In my personal experience, one of Ganon's best MUs, hands down, is Little Mac. The only thing Mac has over Ganon is speed and armored smashes. Ganon hits harder, recovers better, can edgeguard him effortlessly, Mac can't edgeguard Ganon at all, and he's the only character who can't even escape a d-tilt follow up from Flame Choke by teching. Flame Choke negates his smash attack armor, and he's got to deal with a d-tilt follow-up from it he only has a 50% chance of escaping. Mac is both lightweight, and lacks recovery, meaning a basic f-tilt punish can end him. One of the things Mac has going for him is his attack power on the ground, and Ganon has him beat there. The only thing Mac has that's truly a danger to Ganon is the KO Punch... which Ganon can instantly take away from him with one choke>tilt combo, or a d-tilt poke to an aerial follow-up. And if he misses the punch, he's all manner of screwed.

You didn't even mention Little Mac's ridiculous frame data.

 

[Theosmeo]

Jigglypuff for sure, no need to approach her.

Yeah but same for her, and she can really rip us apart if she can get us off stage. She also destroys us in terms of priority.

You didn't even mention Little Mac's ridiculous frame data.

Yeah I find a good Mac rough, he can actually edgeguard us, we have literally no options besides roll up and get knocked a less bad direction if he charges Dsmash by the ledge.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Yeah but same for her, and she can really rip us apart if she can get us off stage. She also destroys us in terms of priority.

Our trades are worth much more, and with proper DI and spacing, Jiggs shouldn't be attaching combos. Space very well. Force her to approach with our range and gimmicks, and Ganon should almost always KO her early with a fresh move.

 

[Slykappn]

I main jiggs and have ganon as a secondary, and i find the match up is hard for gannon if the jiggs can get in. But if a ganon can space even deecently, Jiggs is screwed.

 

[Ayydom]

I don't think Ganondorf has any good MUs. We just make it work!

 

[Litany]

I think Roy might be a pretty good matchup for us. Without projectiles or proper spacing tools, he is forced to approach us, which is where Ganondorf excels. While he's faster than us (almost everyone is though...) he's not Captain Falcon level where his speed is overwhelming. He is also one of the few characters that can be spaced out by our Back Air, as it beats all of his aerial attacks in terms of range. He also doesn't have any throw killing options aside from Up Throw at 180-ish, and getting us into the air isn't a huge advantage for him, since he doesn't have good juggling options. His recovery is predictable and easy to edgeguard, though we have to watch out for his counter.

 

[Theosmeo]

I think Roy might be a pretty good matchup for us. Without projectiles or proper spacing tools, he is forced to approach us, which is where Ganondorf excels. While he's faster than us (almost everyone is though...) he's not Captain Falcon level where his speed is overwhelming. He is also one of the few characters that can be spaced out by our Back Air, as it beats all of his aerial attacks in terms of range. He also doesn't have any throw killing options aside from Up Throw at 180-ish, and getting us into the air isn't a huge advantage for him, since he doesn't have good juggling options. His recovery is predictable and easy to edgeguard, though we have to watch out for his counter.

His recovery has super armor at the start though, so be careful

 

[adom4]

His recovery has super armor at the start though, so be careful

Only grounded Blazer has super armor.
Also i agree that we beat Roy, it's a rather easy MU.

 

[th3lazy]

Jiggs is a pretty easy matchup from my experience. We outrange her and Uair stuffs a lot of her aerial approaches. In addition, our kill power is more scary for Jiggs due to her low weight. The only downside to this matchup is that Jiggs exploits our recovery.

I don't think that Ganon doesn't win other matchups though. He really only exploits big weaknesses that certain characters have. Falcon, Fox/Falco, Ness, Roy, etc. all have really predictable recoveries that Ganon can easily cover, but outclass him in pretty much everything else bar range (Except Falcon, his range is massive).

However, as Ganon mains, we push onward and crush our opponents regardless of our weaknesses! We shall move onward and show the world that we are a force to be reckoned with!

 

[super fan bros]

mii swordsman. It's the only matchup positive for Ganondorf I think. Jigglypuff, Charizard and Zelda also but them it's of 50-50 I think.

 

[ElectroLightning]

I assume MU means Match Up. I think Jiggs is the best MU for Ganon since we can outrange and edgeguard it. And it's weight is so low, that means easy KO's.

 

[Litany]

Thinking about it, King DeDeDe might be a good matchup for us. While he has a good disjoints on a lot of his attacks, his frame data is rather slow and therefore not enough to effectively wall us out (from my experience). He has his Gordo as a projectile, but it is easily relflected with an Up Air or Jab. While King DeDeDe is not the easiest opponent to edge-guard, he is by no means the hardest either. Additionally, his large hurtbox makes him vulnerable to short-hop Back Airs as well as many Flame Choke followups/tech chasing opportunities. He shares the same weight class as Ganondorf (Ganondorf's weight is 113, while King DeDeDe's weight is 119), but many of his moves lack killpower compared to Ganondorf's with the exception of his Smash Attacks. King DeDeDe does, however, have the ability to edge-guard Ganondorf easily, due to his multiple mid-air jumps and long-distances Super DeDeDe Jump (Up-Special).

 

[adom4]

Thinking about it, King DeDeDe might be a good matchup for us. While he has a good disjoints on a lot of his attacks, his frame data is rather slow and therefore not enough to effectively wall us out (from my experience). He has his Gordo as a projectile, but it is easily relflected with an Up Air or Jab. While King DeDeDe is not the easiest opponent to edge-guard, he is by no means the hardest either. Additionally, his large hurtbox makes him vulnerable to short-hop Back Airs as well as many Flame Choke followups/tech chasing opportunities. He shares the same weight class as Ganondorf (Ganondorf's weight is 113, while King DeDeDe's weight is 119), but many of his moves lack killpower compared to Ganondorf's with the exception of his Smash Attacks. King DeDeDe does, however, have the ability to edge-guard Ganondorf easily, due to his multiple mid-air jumps and long-distances Super DeDeDe Jump (Up-Special).

I disagree, i think it's even now after the buffs because dash attack probably wrecks him but his grab game is really annoying, plus his range is better than ours even with his frame data.