What would happen if Goku, Naurto, Ichigo, and Luffy all became assist trophies, (and got eliminated from being playable)?

[lady_sky skipper]

But If Goku, Naruto, Luffy, Ichigo, etc, were assist trophies, and then they become requested to be playable, all those requests would just be rejected, and they would remain assist trophies.

Now would that also open pandora's box and lead to more manga/anime characters becoming Assist Trophies, or spirits?

Little Mac used to be an Assist Trophy in Brawl and he was promoted to playable in the 4th Smash Bros game. I think Isabelle was also which is why I don't like the idea of Goku, Naruto, Ichigo, and other non-gaming characters being ATs. It won't disqualify them from the possibility to be promoted to a fighter for Smash 6.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Little Mac used to be an Assist Trophy in Brawl and he was promoted to playable in the 4th Smash Bros game. I think Isabelle was also which is why I don't like the idea of Goku, Naruto, Ichigo, and other non-gaming characters being ATs. It won't disqualify them from the possibility to be promoted to a fighter for Smash 6.

But in Isabelle, Bomberman, and Waluigi`s cases, they merited to be playable, so they aren`t/werent disqualified for future playability. Goku, Naruto etc, would be disqualified from being promoted to fighters because their not video game characters.

If Goku became an assist trophy in Smash 6, and Waluigi got promoted to a playable character, fans would be saying, Waluigi should be playable, Goku should not.

 

[Deleted member]

Then make krillin the assist trophy

 

[lady_sky skipper]

But in Isabelle, Bomberman, and Waluigi`s cases, they merited to be playable, so they aren`t/werent disqualified for future playability. Goku, Naruto etc, would be disqualified from being promoted to fighters because their not video game characters.

In that case they would also be disqualified from being Assist Trophies also since Sakurai said that Smash Bros was always meant to be for video game characters only. (And to be honest I still think Smash Bros X Jump Force the game would be a great idea how to solve this problem even if it's a long shot. )

 

[kaithehedgefox]

In that case they would also be disqualified from being Assist Trophies also since Sakurai said that Smash Bros was always meant to be for video game characters only. (And to be honest I still think Smash Bros X Jump Force the game would be a great idea how to solve this problem even if it's a long shot. )

But Sakurai stated that only playable characters need to be video game characters. He didn`t mention anything about non video game character assist trophies, or spirits. So he would most likely accept Goku to be an assist trophy. Since Goku wouldn`t be joining the battle.

 

[lady_sky skipper]

But Sakurai stated that only playable characters need to be video game characters. He didn`t mention anything about non video game character assist trophies, or spirits. So he would most likely accept Goku to be an assist trophy. Since Goku wouldn`t be joining the battle.

I'm pretty sure the video game characters only rule applies to Assist Trophies and Spirits as well since I'm playing Smash Bros Ultimate and I haven't seen any non-video game character ATs or spirits.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

I'm pretty sure the video game characters only rule applies to Assist Trophies and Spirits as well since I'm playing Smash Bros Ultimate and I haven't seen any non-video game character ATs or spirits.

But the video game character rule may not apply to Assist Trophies and Spirits anymore in smash 6.

 

[lady_sky skipper]

But the video game character rule may not apply to Assist Trophies and Spirits anymore in smash 6.

How come? Just curious where you got your info.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

How come? Just curious where you got your info.

Well, Megaman meeting Simon Belmont was a Captain N Reference. So, non video game character appearances or references are okay. Non video game characters will most likely only be assist trophies or spirits.

 

[lady_sky skipper]

Well, Megaman meeting Simon Belmont was a Captain N Reference. So, non video game character appearances or references are okay. Non video game characters will most likely only be assist trophies or spirits.

I think that was an unintentional reference to Captain N and really doesn't prove that Sakurai is going to put in non-video game characters in Smash. (He might not have even heard of the show Captain N the Game Master.)

 

[kaithehedgefox]

I think that was an unintentional reference to Captain N and really doesn't prove that Sakurai is going to put in non-video game characters in Smash. (He might not have even heard of the show Captain N the Game Master.)

But Sakurai hasn`t confirmed that Non video game characters can`t be assist trophies or spirits. Which is why Goku still has a chance to be an assist trophy.

 

[lady_sky skipper]

But Sakurai hasn`t confirmed that Non video game characters can`t be assist trophies or spirits. Which is why Goku still has a chance to be an assist trophy.

This is Masahiro Sakurai's official stance on the idea, I know it's from a Japanese article from 10-11 years ago but I think it still applies with Smash 4 and Ultimate: https://www.nintendo-insider.com/masahiro-sakurai-on-manga-characters-in-super-smash-bros/

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Those are definitely intentional Captain N references. Simon and MegaMan have not met Pit outside of that series and Smash itself. That was the point of it. Obviously if he outright mentioned Captain N, it means having the character appear in some form would be necessary so people would know who it is. He didn't make a Mii costume out of, so referencing the show(the only possible explanation) without the name was the smartest move. It's also possible Sakurai didn't realize that Nintendo owns Captain N. However, other companies might not want to see anything from the Show/Comics since the designs are less than top notch. Which means an agreement that a reference without directly naming it is one logical way to do it.

Also, that was still in context of playable characters. He's said nowhere that he minds them showing up in NPC roles. In addition, that article is still spreading the misinformation that history on a Nintendo console is needed. It's not. It's a courtesy, not a requirement. It's just nice, and can help license characters/content to be used on that console(or Nintendo's in general) again.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Also, that was still in context of playable characters. He's said nowhere that he minds them showing up in NPC roles. In addition, that article is still spreading the misinformation that history on a Nintendo console is needed. It's not. It's a courtesy, not a requirement. It's just nice, and can help license characters/content to be used on that console(or Nintendo's in general) again.

Well, we still don't have any Playstation-only characters (Joker doesn't count anymore), so evidently something is keeping them out. I can definitely see Sony not wanting to advertise any of their exclusive characters (as in, the ones their first and second parties use) on a competitor's console, though.

And that's if they don't end up reduced to flavors-of-the-month that will be forgotten by them forever...

 

[lady_sky skipper]

Those are definitely intentional Captain N references. Simon and MegaMan have not met Pit outside of that series and Smash itself. That was the point of it. Obviously if he outright mentioned Captain N, it means having the character appear in some form would be necessary so people would know who it is. He didn't make a Mii costume out of, so referencing the show(the only possible explanation) without the name was the smartest move. It's also possible Sakurai didn't realize that Nintendo owns Captain N. However, other companies might not want to see anything from the Show/Comics since the designs are less than top notch. Which means an agreement that a reference without directly naming it is one logical way to do it.

Also, that was still in context of playable characters. He's said nowhere that he minds them showing up in NPC roles. In addition, that article is still spreading the misinformation that history on a Nintendo console is needed. It's not. It's a courtesy, not a requirement. It's just nice, and can help license characters/content to be used on that console(or Nintendo's in general) again.

Thanks for the info Legendary Spirit Tamer it definatley helps a lot to find out the truth behind an article. (And to be fair I'm cool with the Captain reference, especially when the fans do interesting fan art based on it.)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well, we still don't have any Playstation-only characters (Joker doesn't count anymore), so evidently something is keeping them out. I can definitely see Sony not wanting to advertise any of their exclusive characters (as in, the ones their first and second parties use) on a competitor's console, though.

And that's if they don't end up reduced to flavors-of-the-month that will be forgotten by them forever...

Nothing is really keeping them out related to Nintendo. People are looking for patterns. Sony is pretty much the issue here. Sakurai doesn't care about any of that silly stuff. He's not a fan of these console wars. There's no real evidence either, because again, people are trying to make a fan-rule out of nothing.

Thanks for the info Legendary Spirit Tamer it definatley helps a lot to find out the truth behind an article. (And to be fair I'm cool with the Captain reference, especially when the fans do interesting fan art based on it.)

Some fans wanted Simon in just for the full N Team(it's the main reason I wanted Simon in myself).

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Nothing is really keeping them out related to Nintendo. People are looking for patterns. Sony is pretty much the issue here. Sakurai doesn't care about any of that silly stuff. He's not a fan of these console wars. There's no real evidence either, because again, people are trying to make a fan-rule out of nothing.


Some fans wanted Simon in just for the full N Team(it's the main reason I wanted Simon in myself).

Okay, so are there no actual rules for any character to enter? Well, besides being a Kirby character that was made by Sakurai and being a Zelda character from the triad (I want those latter two points to be disproven so badly).

I for one do like the Captain N jokes being acknowledged.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Okay, so are there no actual rules for any character to enter? Well, besides being a Kirby character that was made by Sakurai and being a Zelda character from the triad.

I for one do like the Captain N jokes being acknowledged.

To be playable in the game, the only real rule was "video game character first(if 3rd party)" at best(and this is more of guesswork, as he hasn't outright ruled out anything but Manga characters, but his tons of statements do imply he means non-game characters), which is more to do with licensing than anything else. He has no stigma against non-game characters. That's just silly.

He has softer guidelines instead. Like being from a relevant/active series can give an advantage, but this doesn't apply to 3rd parties either who get in on their own merits, same with retros(who seem to be NES era only). Retros are more considered surprise/unique additions too(as that's what Piranha Plant falls under). Characters from a series with no future are simply lower priority. This can easily explain Lucas' temporary cut in 4, why Wolf was lower priority alone to return in 4, and why things like Golden Sun didn't get a playable character.

 

[Deleted member]

What would happen?
Mickey Mouse and Zoe Trent would be playable, of course!

 

[Luigifan18]

What would happen?
Mickey Mouse and Zoe Trent would be playable, of course!

Worst timeline...

 

[Deleted member]

Worst timeline...

Hey, Mickey wouldn't be that bad!
...oh. You meant Zoe.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

To be playable in the game, the only real rule was "video game character first(if 3rd party)" at best(and this is more of guesswork, as he hasn't outright ruled out anything but Manga characters, but his tons of statements do imply he means non-game characters), which is more to do with licensing than anything else. He has no stigma against non-game characters. That's just silly.

He has softer guidelines instead. Like being from a relevant/active series can give an advantage, but this doesn't apply to 3rd parties either who get in on their own merits, same with retros(who seem to be NES era only). Retros are more considered surprise/unique additions too(as that's what Piranha Plant falls under). Characters from a series with no future are simply lower priority. This can easily explain Lucas' temporary cut in 4, why Wolf was lower priority alone to return in 4, and why things like Golden Sun didn't get a playable character.

That seems sensical and a pretty good explanation, thank you.

Okay, so let me see if I got this right: let's suppose that he wants to go after a noteworthy Playstation mascot. Negotiations would be much more difficult if said Playstation mascot doesn't have a Nintendo appearance, yes?

As for non-PS third parties, I believe that it can be theoretically possible for those without a future to get in without any problem, as long as the company who owns them aren't dead themselves. comes pretty close to fitting this, seeing as CV Requiem came out not too long afterwards (and even then he had nothing to do with that game, does).

But yeah, let's be real, licensed characters are a nightmare to get and are out of the question. If they were able to get them, there would be no hesitation (especially for Marvel and DC superheroes). But as it stands, it just can't be done. Public domain characters are theoretically fair game, though so far all those that got to do appearances of some sort are usually tied to myths and legends (e.g. Dracula, Medusa, Heracles).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That seems sensical and a pretty good explanation, thank you.

Okay, so let me see if I got this right: let's suppose that he wants to go after a noteworthy Playstation mascot. Negotiations would be much more difficult if said Playstation mascot doesn't have a Nintendo appearance, yes?

As for non-PS third parties, I believe that it can be theoretically possible for those without a future to get in without any problem, as long as the company who owns them aren't dead themselves. comes pretty close to fitting this, seeing as CV Requiem came out not too long afterwards (and even then he had nothing to do with that game, does).

But yeah, let's be real, licensed characters are a nightmare to get and are out of the question. If they were able to get them, there would be no hesitation (especially for Marvel and DC superheroes). But as it stands, it just can't be done. Public domain characters are theoretically fair game, though so far all those that got to do appearances of some sort are usually tied to myths and legends (e.g. Dracula, Medusa, Heracles).

I don't think it's just the lack of Nintendo appearances. Sony has a lot of trouble working with other companies.

And yeah, in the case of domain-used names like Dracula, it's the unique character being licensed. It's like how Devil is a well-known word but can't be copyrighted. The actual character is in this case. Another example would be Piranha Plant. The words in the name aren't really a copyrighted factor(though the name combo is). They're common words. It's the full character that has the copyright and cannot be used for money purposes outside of Nintendo's permission(coincidentally they lightened up on their Let's Play rules. As long as you have your own content, it's fine, even when making money).

And pretty much on the company thing. If the company is alive, it doesn't matter how dead or finished the series is.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I don't think it's just the lack of Nintendo appearances. Sony has a lot of trouble working with other companies.

Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. Just from PSASBR alone you can tell that they didn't get along with other parties for that game very well for the most part.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. Just from PSASBR alone you can tell that they didn't get along with other parties for that game very well for the most part.

Not exactly. It was a no-name developer. Sony didn't have as much say in that. A lot of the major characters were 3rd party, like Crash, Spyro, and any FF character. The reason Sakurai could get Cloud is because he's already a big wig.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Not exactly. It was a no-name developer. Sony didn't have as much say in that. A lot of the major characters were 3rd party, like Crash, Spyro, and any FF character. The reason Sakurai could get Cloud is because he's already a big wig.

Well, I did mean the TPs that were involved with the game, not the staff itself. I'm sure Crash and Spyro will gather enough momentum again over time though.

 

[Deleted member]

**** psasbr that game was hot trash

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well, I did mean the TPs that were involved with the game, not the staff itself. I'm sure Crash and Spyro will gather enough momentum again over time though.

TPs?

That said, it's probably just those companies not willing to work with a no-name developer. Square-Enix only made an offer of Lightning, if I remember right.

But yeah, licensing is a ***** sometimes. At least some companies have no issues with fangames, as long as they don't make money, so that's nice.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

TPs?

That said, it's probably just those companies not willing to work with a no-name developer. Square-Enix only made an offer of Lightning, if I remember right.

But yeah, licensing is a ***** sometimes. At least some companies have no issues with fangames, as long as they don't make money, so that's nice.

Third parties, sorry, thought it seemed obvious enough.

Yeah, Capcom is famously known for not minding fangames, they even took up one as an official release. And the idiots who made Rockmen R are a textbook case of how not to distribute your fangame.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Third parties, sorry, thought it seemed obvious enough.

Yeah, Capcom is famously known for not minding fangames, they even took up one as an official release.

I think fangames that are fighting games companies don't mind because it's not literally the same thing as a "hack", which is more than just using a character, but basically making the same game type they're trying to sell. Which can theoretically hurt sales. Fighting Fangames can't really do anything like that because at best, they're representing a character wrong. Besides that, otherwise they'd just need to license the characters to actually sell the game. Which obviously they're not going to attempt to sell the game cause it's not worth the money. Stuff like Super Smash Flash isn't considered high-quality enough to sell reasonably(though they are cool games).

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think fangames that are fighting games companies don't mind because it's not literally the same thing as a "hack", which is more than just using a character, but basically making the same game type they're trying to sell. Which can theoretically hurt sales. Fighting Fangames can't really do anything like that because at best, they're representing a character wrong. Besides that, otherwise they'd just need to license the characters to actually sell the game. Which obviously they're not going to attempt to sell the game cause it's not worth the money. Stuff like Super Smash Flash isn't considered high-quality enough to sell reasonably(though they are cool games).

Even with hacks, Capcom hasn't noticed those, otherwise Rom Hacking would have been nuked to hell and back.

And really, even if you did go after any and every fanmade thing, it'd be pointless since it's like trying to kill hordes of bugs, since so many come out.

Although it is nice when some fangames are given enough time to truly shine. Giving tribute to the series you make a fan thing for is its own reward.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Even with hacks, Capcom hasn't noticed those, otherwise Rom Hacking would have been nuked to hell and back.

And really, even if you did go after any and every fanmade thing, it'd be pointless since it's like trying to kill hordes of bugs, since so many come out.

Although it is nice when some fangames are given enough time to truly shine. Giving tribute to the series you make a fan thing for is its own reward.

Nintendo cares a lot more, it seems. But every person is different. They're not wrong for going after the romhacks, but it's also not a big deal either way. Generally it doesn't seem like they're being overprotective so much as only taking down those that could hurt sales.

Anyway, I really hope we get a Captain N mii costume for Gunner. Not only would it show off the NES Zapper, it'd be neat to see how they made the model work well(though my guess is because it needs an all new model, which I can see why they wouldn't bother for such an obscure character... that also isn't highly requested).

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Anyway, I really hope we get a Captain N mii costume for Gunner. Not only would it show off the NES Zapper, it'd be neat to see how they made the model work well(though my guess is because it needs an all new model, which I can see why they wouldn't bother for such an obscure character... that also isn't highly requested).

I'd rather see one for 9-Volt, he fulfills a similar purpose of being a supergamer (and is another way for WW to veer away from the Ashley black hole).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'd rather see one for 9-Volt, he fulfills a similar purpose of being a supergamer (and is another way for WW to veer away from the Ashley black hole).

You can have multiple Mii costumes with similarities. ...9-Volt actually uses an NES Zapper?

Cause that's part of the purpose. That, and just to steer away from Ashley is not really a good reason at all.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

You can have multiple Mii costumes with similarities. ...9-Volt actually uses an NES Zapper?

Cause that's part of the purpose. That, and just to steer away from Ashley is not really a good reason at all.

Well at any rate they'd give it some sort of weapon. Lord knows we had some that are somewhat related (Isabelle with a popper, Tails with a ray gun).

Also, at least one of his micro-games involved a Zapper.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well at any rate they'd give it some sort of weapon. Lord knows we had some that are somewhat related (Isabelle with a popper, Tails with a ray gun).

Also, at least one of his micro-games involved a Zapper.

But is it his main weapon? Cause otherwise, it seems to shoehorn him into a Mii costume instead of representing what he's like. He sounds more like a Brawler at this point, having no particular weapon focus.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Eh, I guess. Anyway, I'll just drop the topic.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

But is it his main weapon? Cause otherwise, it seems to shoehorn him into a Mii costume instead of representing what he's like. He sounds more like a Brawler at this point, having no particular weapon focus.

Could you please close this thread? It's becoming a little tangenty.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Closed by request. PM me if you feel the need to re-open it.