What uses does Fox's shine have in this game?

[MintChipper]

So shines have been somewhat nerfed since Melee and I'm wondering what uses it has beyond a quick keep-away or stalling in the air for a bit or it's intended use being reflecting.

 

[Foster J.]

Air stalling and reflecting are my primary uses. At least whenever you reflect you have less ending Lag I believe, though don't quote me on that.

 

[NoahDaniel]

The normal reflector is pretty much only for stalling and reflecting, but the custom 2 Big Reflector has a windbox. The windbox is a lot larger than most people expect, so you can get some funny gimps with it. In exchange you have a lower damage multiplier for reflected projectiles (1.2 instead of 1.5 I think). I think it doesn't lower the momentum for stalling as much as the normal reflector, but you only really notice it when you keep spamming it in the air, which is a bad idea anyway.

 

[MintChipper]

Air stalling and reflecting are my primary uses. At least whenever you reflect you have less ending Lag I believe, though don't quote me on that.

You do have less ending lag after reflecting but I tend to use it for approach when my opponents thinks I'm gonna up smash him and I'm wondering if theres any sort of uses for it in combos since shinespikes have been removed.

 

[ActionShot]

I'd love to find out if shine has any practical use besides stalling or actually reflecting stuff. It seems that anytime you could go for a shine offensively, it would just be safer/more rewarding to use a jab or nair.

 

[MintChipper]

I'd love to find out if shine has any practical use besides stalling or actually reflecting stuff. It seems that anytime you could go for a shine offensively, it would just be safer/more rewarding to use a jab or nair.

Yeah, especially because it does 2-3%, It doesn't have good knockback for follow ups and there's almost no hitstun so the opponent could get a free dash attack because of the endlag you have to suffer from.

 

[dahuterschuter]

Humiliating really bad players by shining on them over and over.

 

[MintChipper]

Humiliating really bad players by shining on them over and over.

Yeah I tend to do that at times and it is hilarious.

 

[Mcubed]

The shine no longer spikes and actually launches them up

 

[jahkzheng]

I don't play Fox much, but I was playing a bit of him in For Glory teams and managed to shine spike Robin dead by reflecting Elwind. Now, I've reflected Elwind before from below Robin and had it knock Robin upward, but this time I was right inside his hurtbox just going for a shine gimp for fun, but instead I got there right as Elwind started and it spiked Robin straight down. He was at like 50% or so, don't remember exactly, and died without opportunity to recover, or at least never showed sign that he could act at all. Wish I could've saved it to get a better idea as to how, but my replays are filled up. I'm sure this is something the regular Fox players are aware of though. It was pretty satifying. Something to try again against Robin if I see another. Probably pretty risky though.

 

[Omegascizor456]

I wish that it still had more uses but i use it as a humiliation tool...

 

[NoahDaniel]

I don't play Fox much, but I was playing a bit of him in For Glory teams and managed to shine spike Robin dead by reflecting Elwind. Now, I've reflected Elwind before from below Robin and had it knock Robin upward, but this time I was right inside his hurtbox just going for a shine gimp for fun, but instead I got there right as Elwind started and it spiked Robin straight down. He was at like 50% or so, don't remember exactly, and died without opportunity to recover, or at least never showed sign that he could act at all. Wish I could've saved it to get a better idea as to how, but my replays are filled up. I'm sure this is something the regular Fox players are aware of though. It was pretty satifying. Something to try again against Robin if I see another. Probably pretty risky though.

Elwind has a spike hitbox right at the beginning of the move. I already spiked tons of Robin on for Glory with Dr. Mario's sheet. Most for Glory Robins have probably no idea that Elwind spikes.

 

[roymustang1990-]

Dues to mechanics change,you use it what it was originally meant for. Reflecting projectiles.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Reflector (DownB 1):

• Reflect most projectiles safely (watch out vs ZSS flip jump though)
• Avoid getting juggled in the air

Big Reflector (DownB 2):

• Windbox gives gimping potential to push away from the stage (particularly linear recoveries, like Mario's Gust cape)
• Does Big Reflector stall Fox's air movement? Someone answer this, I forget atm
• Reflecting stuff works with it as well

Amplifying Reflector (DownB 3)

• Reflect stuff harder... that's it.

Honestly, don't use downB 3. The reward isn't worth it, considering the startup and what you lose in escaping juggles.

DownB 2 is the best one. Lacks a hitbox, but can let you get some gimps.

The default Shine just doesn't have the spike anymore, so it's unfortunately limited in that sense. That said, it's not completely useless for what it's there for.

 

[MintChipper]

Reflector (DownB 1):

• Reflect most projectiles safely (watch out vs ZSS flip jump though)
• Avoid getting juggled in the air

Big Reflector (DownB 2):

• Windbox gives gimping potential to push away from the stage (particularly linear recoveries, like Mario's Gust cape)
• Does Big Reflector stall Fox's air movement? Someone answer this, I forget atm
• Reflecting stuff works with it as well

Amplifying Reflector (DownB 3)

• Reflect stuff harder... that's it.

Honestly, don't use downB 3. The reward isn't worth it, considering the startup and what you lose in escaping juggles.

DownB 2 is the best one. Lacks a hitbox, but can let you get some gimps.

The default Shine just doesn't have the spike anymore, so it's unfortunately limited in that sense. That said, it's not completely useless for what it's there for.

Thank you, I'll be sure to use big reflector in any tourneys where customs are legal, . . . if I manage to get it.

This roller plays with my emotions.

 

[Bullys]

I had just been using it for stalls and reflector myself - fair solid with the timing on the reflector part. Should really look at getting and practicing with shine 2 though, I am so darn lazy about grinding stuff, world of warcraft drilled my desire to go get anything out of me a long time ago

 

[jahkzheng]

Elwind has a spike hitbox right at the beginning of the move. I already spiked tons of Robin on for Glory with Dr. Mario's sheet. Most for Glory Robins have probably no idea that Elwind spikes.

I assume every Robin I've played is aware that Elwind spikes at a distance, as they should be. Most have shown they're familiar enough with this property that they try and utilize it. And if you reflect Robin's Elwind from a ways below them, you send it back up towards them and they get knocked upward. I wasn't aware, however, that there was a reflectable "projectile" at the very start of the move that could still spike. Logically, you'd think that even right next to the Robin, reflecting Elwind would do the opposite to Robin as what it would've done to you. Maybe had I not reflected that Elwind there, I'd have been popped up though. I doubt it. Still not clear on the exact mechanics. It's confusing. It's like jumping into the front of a Mega Man charging his fsmash and using shine just as he released his charge... but instead of Megaman flying in the opposite direction of where he was aiming, he instead flew how you would've flown if you'd been hit. Makes some sense when you think about the odd directions people fly when you smash with someone standing in your hurtbox, but I just didn't think a projectile would behave that way when reflected at close range.

 

[luke_atyeo]

it makes perfect sense if you look at it like this.


Elwind has a hitbox that spikes, a spike will send you directly downward NO MATTER WHAT
If you reflect that hitbox back at robin, and it hits robin, it hits robin with a spike hitbox, which will send robin down NO MATTER WHAT

if you try to think about it in terms of the megaman example you gave you are misinterpreting the mechanics of the game and are just going to confuse yourself.

 

[moofpi]

I don't play Fox much, but I was playing a bit of him in For Glory teams and managed to shine spike Robin dead by reflecting Elwind. Now, I've reflected Elwind before from below Robin and had it knock Robin upward, but this time I was right inside his hurtbox just going for a shine gimp for fun, but instead I got there right as Elwind started and it spiked Robin straight down. He was at like 50% or so, don't remember exactly, and died without opportunity to recover, or at least never showed sign that he could act at all. Wish I could've saved it to get a better idea as to how, but my replays are filled up. I'm sure this is something the regular Fox players are aware of though. It was pretty satifying. Something to try again against Robin if I see another. Probably pretty risky though.

Plumber here. Got a nice video of me Robin-spiking a Robin

 

[Foster J.]

Yeah the trick is just NOT to get Dair'd though :^)

 

[jr22]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOaI2-jI-6U&list=UUsYeByaME9BNztk3qbOYsig

Just a few useful ways for shine in this game. Hope this help.

 

[MintChipper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOaI2-jI-6U&list=UUsYeByaME9BNztk3qbOYsig

Just a few useful ways for shine in this game. Hope this help.

 

[M@v]

As an fyi shine actually does NOT have set knockback in smash 4....its just that the knockback is so abysmally small you don't notice the difference. Go into training mode and crank it up to 999% damage and see what i mean...you still don't kill them at that percent, but it sends them flying.

 

[Foster J.]

As an fyi shine actually does NOT have set knockback in smash 4....its just that the knockback is so abysmally small you don't notice the difference. Go into training mode and crank it up to 999% damage and see what i mean...you still don't kill them at that percent, but it sends them flying.

Sakurai must have spent the past 10 years working out a formula calculating knockback on it for his final revenge against the waveshine

 

[dkuo]

disclaimer: i played this game for maybe 1 hour so far and not with competitive players

throwing shine out is ok for getting people off of you when theyre all up in yo grill. shine oos is ok
idk if it resets properly or if they have the advantage after it hits so this suggestion could be horrible

 

[luke_atyeo]

^ Nair OoS works for that too but better

 

[Gawain]

If you take shine-spiking out of Smash 64's shine then it's basically the same as that. Use it to reflect stuff, and you can jump out of it immediately after a reflection. Situational use and good in certain matchups that would otherwise give Fox trouble.

 

[IguanaBeWithYou]

I usually use shine out of a fox-trot to engage and they're usually in range for a free fSmash if they don't tech

 

[dkuo]

^ Nair OoS works for that too but better

i was going to say shine has less startup so frame-wise it would be more reliable at the very least
nair would still have more disjoint and less cooldown so then theyd both be used in certain situations

...but the guide says its first hitbox is frame 6 so yeah nvm
rip shine oos

 

[Iceweasel]

If someone gets too close to you, a shine has the least startup lag. It doesn't knock them far away, but it's far enough that they can't hit you. I've only ever used it as an anti-air finisher and punishing a roll that's too close. That said, my Fox game is awful and I may not be a good person to take advice from.

 

[Illuminati13]

This move could've had combo potential if the ending lag wasn't so long. Other than stalling there is yet to be a use. I might test out it more because there has to be another use that has gone undiscovered

 

[luke_atyeo]

other uses for shine?
winning doubles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMMxmMVO9gA

 

[Foster J.]

other uses for shine?
winning doubles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMMxmMVO9gA

Old news, but fun news

 

[luke_atyeo]

that video was posted 4 days ago, how fast does news have to travel jesus

 

[Foster J.]

that video was posted 4 days ago, how fast does news have to travel jesus

It had a fun thread on Reddit I tell you hvat

 

[jr22]

ignore this. this was a mistake.

 

[luke_atyeo]

implying you waste time on smash reddit when you have smash boards, gross.

Also lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMMxmMVO9gA#t=20

A gamebreaking olimar tool that has something to do with fox shine that we're not going to like not one bit

click the youtube link 4 posts up from yours, seem familar?

 

[MintChipper]

I just found out you could shine while executing a footstool, man that could combo into many things if there wasn't so much ENDLAG.

 

[Darklink401]

If you shine someone at a higher-ish percent when they are near the edge, it will slide them off.

I once gimped a little mac with shines, by sliding him off, then using shine again, offstage, and he couldnt get back up.

 

[Foster J.]

Seems it's a matter of luck sometimes HAHA