What should become second nature first: L-Cancelling or Shorthopping?

[thedough]

Okay, I'm in that stage where I'm learning all these advanced techniques and trying to incorporate them into my game. But I'm torn on what I should try mastering first: L-Cancelling or Shorthopping. There are so many situations where I see that either l-cancelling or shorthopping would have helped me, but unfortunately I only want to focus on one thing at a time. Which one do you think I should master first? With L-cancelling, I could avoid so many shield grabs with my shine, but with shorthop I can do faster ariels and start mindgaming at an early stage with SHL. Decisions, decisions >_<.

PS.
I know, I suck because my thumb isn't fast enough to short hop >_>.

 

[takieddine]

L-cancel.

Watch Masashi's Fox, thats a good Fox to look at if you cant get in the habbit of short hopping.

 

[SCOTU]

L cancelling should be like the 4th advanced technique you learn. (shield grabbing, JC grabbing, and Dash Dancing should come first).

 

[Giggidax]

both, at the same time.

 

[Oskurito]

I suggest learning short hop first then learn how to shufflc instead of just L-canceling

 

[brawlpro]

well...learn short hoping first cause when you shffl your gonna short hop before you l-cancle. best way is to slide thumb off y to short hop. well i kinda also agree with giggidax...

 

[Omni]

I suggest reading Omni's Guide to Mastering Fox.

OH WAIT, IT GOT UNSTICKIED.

Short Hop first. L-Cancel later. L-cancelling full hop aerials doesn't help your Fox game too much.

 

[brawlpro]

Spoiler

l

hah lol omni, nice sig.

i read your guide, not all of it unfortunately...
very helpful since it explains fighting against characters specifically, hurry up and finish it.

 

[kerploplesteesh]

heres the thing dude. Fox really, really, really, needs both. you need to be able to shffl into shine at the drop of a dime. Theyre both ridiculously important aspects.

 

[Deleted member]

Shorthopping should become second nature first... unfortunately for me, I suck at shorthopping with Fox, but I can L-Cancel... which sucks so bad when I try and shuffle... *sigh*... but shorthopping will help in the long run...

 

[thedough]

I know that Fox needs both. I wasn't going to master one then completely abandon the other, it's just I learn better + faster when I'm completely focused on one thing. My question was which one should be prioritized into learning first. And the split decision of this board isn't helping either ;_;

 

[darkshy]

should you short hop first so you can shffl? That's what I think.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Just make sure when you learn to L-cancel that you can L-cancel any aerial from any height. Also know that the timing is different when you just run around SHFFLing vs. SHFFLing into an enemy or an enemy's shield. And L-cancelling Fox's dair can be tricky especially if you learned to L-cancel by feel instead of by sight. If you learn to L-cancel in the context of SHFFLing you may associate the L-cancel with the speed of particular aerials. THIS IS BAD. I had this problem for a while and couldn't switch characters without losing the feel of all the advanced techs. You should L-cancel by sight instead.

So to answer your question it doesn't really matter. BUT if you go in the order SH => L-cancel just make sure you can L-cancel everything and not just SHFFL.

 

[brawlpro]

just go and learn short hoping first, u need to do that before you can l-cancle effectively with fox...

 

[SCOTU]

Well, SHing doesnt help unless you can L cancel (for shffling). But L cacelling full hopped airs, and edge hopped airs does help.

 

[peachori]

Just make sure when you learn to L-cancel that you can L-cancel any aerial from any height. Also know that the timing is different when you just run around SHFFLing vs. SHFFLing into an enemy or an enemy's shield. And L-cancelling Fox's dair can be tricky especially if you learned to L-cancel by feel instead of by sight. If you learn to L-cancel in the context of SHFFLing you may associate the L-cancel with the speed of particular aerials. THIS IS BAD. I had this problem for a while and couldn't switch characters without losing the feel of all the advanced techs. You should L-cancel by sight instead.

So to answer your question it doesn't really matter. BUT if you go in the order SH => L-cancel just make sure you can L-cancel everything and not just SHFFL.

qft. i learned to l-cancel as a part of shffling. result? i could only lc consistently with the first char i learned shffling on, and i had trouble lcing aerials that were in full jumps or when i landed on platforms. YOU NEED TO LEARN TO L CANCEL UPON LANDING, AND NOT JUST BY RHYTHM. i learned the l-cancel as simply part of the shffling motion, and i had to start playing several other characters to de-program myself.

also, i was just looking for omni's guide a few days ago since thats basically how i learned fox, i didnt know jack **** and i followed those steps to learn to play him. but i think silent wolf's sticky has it linked so whatever same thing.

 

[TKD]

I suggest you learn to l-cancel your full hopped-aerials first, then your short-hopped moves. 'Cuz you can play aggro with the short hop but (at least to me), a cautious, full hopping Fox is cooler (I shorthop a lot though).

While practicing L-Cancelling, do a shine immediately when you touch the ground, just to make sure of two things:
1) That you are L-Cancelling properly
2) That you're RELEASING the L/R button quickly enough. If not, Fox'll shield (this counts for WDing too).

Also make sure you fast-fall before EVERY L-Cancel (that's after every aerial of course). If your aerial HITS (shielded foe or unshielded, doesn't matter) and you haven't fast-falled (for fox that's only in case of full hopped aerials), fast-fall immediately after the hit.

And don't spoil yourself with shines. You don't just shine after cancelling. You can also uptilt, jab, or stay shielded: The shield's against crouch-cancelling opponents and a Falco about to counter your drill by shining himself.

If your opponent shields one of your aerials in front of you, you can ONLY do two things: One is shining him, and the other is spot-dodging. If not, you're gonna get shieldgrabbed most of the time (unless it's a Link player). A well-placed backair (that lets you dash away or jump) is an exception though (like the ones Masashi does). You can dash away or jump before getting shieldgrabbed.

I hope this helps!

 

[NadaisaGod]

I would learn L Canceling first. You can full jump > nair > L Cancel, and do decently, but you can't really do it with short hop > nair > and this is where the L Cancel would go, but you failed. D:

Honestly though, I picked them up at the exact same time by just practicing SHFFLs, and L-Cancel just because second nature.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

There is no particular order to learn them in, and it will not effect the consitency of the execution of each technique.

My advice would be to just learn them not in any particular order, but learn them until they become second nature.

Learning advanced Smash isn't about the order, it's the application.

 

[Druggedfox]

It doesnt really matter what u learn first, as long as u at some point learn how to apply them both. If u learn how to short hop first, then there is no point unless u can do an aerial; if u learn how to l-cancel first, the full hopped aerials are sometimes too easy too avoid. And i agree with the whoever said to learn some other things first in terms of, you should get on overall view for ALL the adv. techs, and then take them in levels. Level 1 could be like: shield grab, wavedash, l-cancel, short hop. Level 2: JC grab, dash dance to do a mindgame, SHL, shuffle. Level 3: Waveland, perfect wavedash, combo with shuffle, wavedash out of shield, chain throw. So learn all of level 1 at the same general time, level 2 at the same general time, and level 3 at the same general times.