What realistic changes could you see Zelda getting in the upcoming patch?

[DNeon]

I know that a lot of Zelda's problems stem from issues that would require some more drastic changes to her move set, but what problems could you see getting fixed with balance tweaks announced?

 

[Zylach]

I don't see any huge changes for her with this new balance patch if the last balance patch is anything to go on. Sakurai doesn't wanna make drastic changes and wants to keep the "non-problem child" characters basically the same which I expect he sees Zelda as. I expect no changes to Zelda. If there are changes to her, I expect them to be extremely minor like an extra percent damage on dthrow or on utilt again.

Changes I would really like to see implemented are store-able phantom, no freefall after din's, and no falling out of our smashes. I'm 92% sure that none of these will happen.

 

[Trieste SP]

An extra 0.5 % on her down tilt.

 

[DNeon]

I don't see any huge changes for her with this new balance patch if the last balance patch is anything to go on. Sakurai doesn't wanna make drastic changes and wants to keep the "non-problem child" characters basically the same which I expect he sees Zelda as. I expect no changes to Zelda. If there are changes to her, I expect them to be extremely minor like an extra percent damage on dthrow or on utilt again.

Changes I would really like to see implemented are store-able phantom, no freefall after din's, and no falling out of our smashes. I'm 92% sure that none of these will happen.

I agree on all of those points, just wondering what the hopefuls were going towards. Although I'd also add 'new forward air' to the list of ideal changes. In reality I hope smash attacks would be fixed, but not sure on anything actually happening.

 

[BJN39]

An extra 0.5 % on her down tilt.

Pls, don't be so pessimistic.

It would be +0.7%. that way it'll have the same dumb extra 0.2% overflow like Utilt. (Which does 7.2%. Buffs, gorls.)

But actually on the subject, I have a few thoughts:

My first point: Usmash. It's new rigid design would've made more sense if it still reaped you some real reward for taking the risk to land it. When it was brought over from Brawl, aside the rather large multi-hit hit-box reductions, (As well as 3 more frames before the hit-boxes come out. Ugh.) its KB growth was reduced by a whole 20 points.

If it had power comparable to say, Bowser Jr's Usmash, which, let's be real, is basically just Zelda's but with larger hit-boxes and more KB. It would really solve the problems for the move on a simple, and completely do-able as a mere 'tweak' basis. It's so simple of a change--you only need to change one stat on the 4 hit-boxes of the final hit.

Bringing the KB growth back up to the Brawl stat would give us incentive to attempt to land it at higher percent, and reap the reward of a surprisingly early KO. (Mind you, it didn't seem that strong in Brawl because it was nearly always maximumly staled, but in SSB4, it almost gets no use, since it's lost most of its functionality out of killing. Now it could function like how Tweek has been showing us Bowser Jr's Usmash can, as a read into a surprise early KO.)

Well, I said I had a few, but I went so into Usmash that I'll just go into the next thing tomorrow, lol. TL:DR - Increase the KBG of Usmash--preferably by 20 points. It seems likely a very do-able change for a tweaking balance patch, and I want to see something Usmash can really be used for.

 

[kingofconeyisland]

maybe slightly more range and power on u smash, less endlag on dsmash

 

[Trieste SP]

Pls, don't be so pessimistic.

It would be +0.7%. that way it'll have the same dumb extra 0.2% overflow like Utilt. (Which does 7.2%. Buffs, gorls.)

But actually on the subject, I have a few thoughts:

My first point: Usmash. It's new rigid design would've made more sense if it still reaped you some real reward for taking the risk to land it. When it was brought over from Brawl, aside the rather large multi-hit hit-box reductions, (As well as 3 more frames before the hit-boxes come out. Ugh.) its KB growth was reduced by a whole 20 points.

If it had power comparable to say, Bowser Jr's Usmash, which, let's be real, is basically just Zelda's but with larger hit-boxes and more KB. It would really solve the problems for the move on a simple, and completely do-able as a mere 'tweak' basis. It's so simple of a change--you only need to change one stat on the 4 hit-boxes of the final hit.

Bringing the KB growth back up to the Brawl stat would give us incentive to attempt to land it at higher percent, and reap the reward of a surprisingly early KO. (Mind you, it didn't seem that strong in Brawl because it was nearly always maximumly staled, but in SSB4, it almost gets no use, since it's lost most of its functionality out of killing. Now it could function like how Tweek has been showing us Bowser Jr's Usmash can, as a read into a surprise early KO.)

Well, I said I had a few, but I went so into Usmash that I'll just go into the next thing tomorrow, lol. TL:DR - Increase the KBG of Usmash--preferably by 20 points. It seems likely a very do-able change for a tweaking balance patch, and I want to see something Usmash can really be used for.

I'm trying to not get my hopes up.

I agree. Making her up smash more useful is always good.

Hopefully, they'll do justice to Zelda.

 

[jahkzheng]

Just came in here to say I have unrealistic desires for Zelda to get the buff treatment like no other character. To name a few...

- Fsmash and usmash being modified so that opponents don't drop out of them
- No free fall after Din's
- Less landing lag on bair and fair
- A slightly larger sweetspot hitbox on uair and Din's.
- Storable Phantom
- Her Hyrule Warriors face (would go perfect with her sudden high tier status, lol~)

I have no idea what to expect, but I imagine some small fraction of all that... and that last thing not at all, but one can dream~

 

[Meru.]

I don't see any huge changes for her with this new balance patch if the last balance patch is anything to go on. Sakurai doesn't wanna make drastic changes and wants to keep the "non-problem child" characters basically the same which I expect he sees Zelda as. I expect no changes to Zelda. If there are changes to her, I expect them to be extremely minor like an extra percent damage on dthrow or on utilt again.

Changes I would really like to see implemented are store-able phantom, no freefall after din's, and no falling out of our smashes. I'm 92% sure that none of these will happen.

I agree with this. I haven't got this from a direct source (read: this may be bull****) but apparently Sakurai thinks Zelda is one of the strongest characters in the game. Since they seem to look at the Japanese tier list and opinions (which are basically "Zelda sucks") he may change his mind a bit but I wouldn't put my hopes up. Even if she gets buffed, it will be minor buffs. Zelda needs much, much more than minor buffs.

Also let's hope Farore's doesn't get nerfed.

 

[LRodC]

Storable Phantom and no free-fall out of Din's are not gonna happen. Don't get your hopes up with that or any changes to how a move works because there's no chance they'll change an entire move or the function of a move. Even Mii Gunner's side B puts him into helpless and it's just like Din's Fire, so it's likely intentional. And don't forget Sheik's side B, DK's B, and Ness' B put them into free fall without helping their recovery. It doesn't make sense, but it is what it is and there are other things that should probably be improved upon first.

First of all, up smash. It needs either a range or power buff, or maybe even both. But it needs a reward of some kind because right now it's all risk and little reward to try and land it. This is the most major I think and would solve a lot of my problems with Zelda.

Second of all, a faster phantom upon startup would be great. It would eliminate the lagginess of the uncharged version and allow her to stop approaches and projectiles much better. That's the most I see the move getting.

Forward Smash and Up Smash, although not as terribly unreliable for me as other people claim, do sometimes have some characters fall out (mostly light ones like Kirby, Jiggs, ZSS) randomly. Just have a better multi-hit effect for them.

Maybe less lag on aerials? I don't see it happening for the lightning kicks since Sakurai is explicitly trying to make all powerful sweetspot aerials have heavy landing lag of some kind (see: Falcon's knee) but less landing lag on n-air, d-air, and u-air would be cool. Maybe an extended sweetspot for lightning kicks but I don't see that happening and that's not as necessary as some other things here.

Faster Din's? I don't see it being a huge change, but Din's Fire exploding faster would be a nice addition to the move.

That's about it. The first few things would be perfect and the rest would just be gravy if they happened. If I had to suggest anything, don't get your hopes up for any nerfs or buffs. We don't know how extreme this balance patch is and what it changes until the 15th of April.

I agree with this. I haven't got this from a direct source but apparently Sakurai thinks Zelda is one of the strongest characters in the game. Since they seem to look at the Japanese tier list and opinions (which are basically "Zelda sucks") he may change his mind a bit but I wouldn't put my hopes up. Even if she gets buffed, it will be minor buffs. Zelda needs much, much more than minor buffs.

Also let's hope Farore's doesn't get nerfed.

Okay come on, I really doubt he said anything like that. Where are you getting that info from? And is it even for SSB4?

 

[Meru.]

Okay come on, I really doubt he said anything like that. Where are you getting that info from? And is it even for SSB4?

. I haven't got this from a direct source.

I have just heard it from some people... I think from @ Macchiato ??

Also, multi-hit moves that do not connect well are intented to not connect. There's a hint somewhere stating that it has been intended that Samus' jab doesn't link properly. It's also pretty obvious they're didn't want her smashes to connect with all hints. There are plenty of multi-hit attacks that do connect properly (Ness' Fair, Sheik/Peach/Greninja's Uair, Megaman's Usmash, Pikachu Dsmash.... etc). If they had wanted to they would have fixed her smashes long ago.

 

[PUK]

A buff Zelda could get is a faster Ftilt, faster Utilt, and AC aerials. At least a little f15-f20 on Fair would be great (more or less like in M² trailer). And make the Uair blast always having a hitbox, and AC before the hitbox appear.
And Shield cancel phantom. I don't care if it's storable, i want to be able to cancel it. All chargeable projectiles can be Shield cancel, why not ours?

 

[frest123]

You know what they should fix? All the goddamn deadzones on so many of her attacks. Ftilt, jab and phantom to name a few. Also, the wonkiness of Fsmash and Usmash hitbox might get fixed. That's the most realistic thing to hope for I suppose.

In terms of things I'd like:

I think her lightning kicks are fine the way they are. You just need to master them. Maybe make it they go through shields if the sweepspot connects with shields? (One thing I've seen a lot of people asking for is shieldstun. That would def benefit the lightning kicks)
Her nair should true combo into f/bair. PLEASE. This is basically a request for more hitstun on her nair. If the true combo can't happen, at least give it enough hitstun to cover her landing lag when she falls with it. This will give her such a good landing option. (of course not on shield) You could mix this up with Nayru's love.
Make her utilt come out faster and have a little more hitsun. It's so pitiful how people can just jump out of your meaningless utilt juggle attempts...
Make her dtilt have a guaranteed follow up for pete's sake. The way it's designed kinda feels like it's just a frame trap most of the time. Seems relatively useless against characters like Mario and Luigi with combo-breaking sex kicks.
Give her an usmash in the first place.... Doesn't even feel like she has one. God. I mean as an anti-air, Utilt is superior. As a multihit, shield pressure attack, a well-spaced fsmash is better. What do you even use Usmash for? A taunt? (I do that actually. It's like a wave to the players) HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

For her specials:

Nayru's love:
Love it just the way it is. Gliding with Love Jumping, etc. Perfect. If they wanted to improve it in any way, maybe make it have a little more invincibility frames.

Din's:
No freefall. That won't help the move too much but at least she can do a little more off stage (especially when getting back to the stage against characters like Little Mac).

Maybe make it you can hold the din's in place somehow and cause a controlled, delayed explosion (something like how you can hold the phantom longer even though it's fully charged). That way, you can angle it to the place where someone is rolling/airdodging and set it off when their invincibility fades.
Make it quicker and more controllable. Controllable to the point where you can abruptly shift its direction should your opponent try to fall away from it when you angle it upwards. (lol as if that's happening)

Farore's Wind (FW):

Guaranteed zeldavator please? (as in it can't be DI-ed) It already comes with enough risk without the DI bs you have to deal with....

They should remove the stiffness of her reappearance in the air. It's so annoying to reappear just an inch away from the ledge and not be able to fall towards it. Make the reappearance in the air something like after the windfall custom but maybe a little less manoeuvreable.

On the topic of FW to the ledge, fix the goddamn **** up she tends to get when she teleports to the ledge on stages with libbed edges. (You know, when you angle the teleport too much to the wall instead of the ledge and she reappears a mile away from the ledge)

This one is a little unrealistic though: make her grounded FW not make her helpless. She'd be a god with FW chases leading to aerials. Plus, teleport canceling doesn't result in a SD if you **** up should they implement this.

Phantom:
Making it storable would def be useful against characters with holdable reflectors (like Fox) that can just throw out their reflector and laugh.

The way I use Phantom (with B-reversals, landing, short hops - spacing basically) would benefit more from deadzone touch-ups though. The fully charged phantom should completely cover all space between Zelda and the place where it ends. People shouldn't be able to just hop over the whole hitbox and kill you for charging the phantom.



In general, they could improve her a lot. Idk how in the seven skies Sakurai or anyone could think she's good. She has potential and at the hands of a complete master, she's decent at best. I've spent so much time on her and it's absurd how she has to deal with such simple problems that other characters don't even know exist. (she's juggled so easily, can't combo too well, so slow, not very good at approaching) Ugh

 

[Macchiato]

Buff her Uair.

 

[BJN39]

I've almost been wondering if the whole "Sakurai thinks Zelda is a great character." was just a rumor started to relate her issues like Samus's.

Either way, if he really is using SHI-G's list for balancing hints, he'll have to change his tune on her. (And Samus.)

And Shield cancel phantom. I don't care if it's storable, i want to be able to cancel it. All chargeable projectiles can be Shield cancel, why not ours?

THIS. I mean why does almost no one bring this up? (I brought it up once, but I had forgotten until re-remembering yesterday.) Aside just being fair and matching other charge projectiles, it would lower the high level of commitment, so that when you start charging, someone fast can't just JUMP OVER YOU and get a guaranteed punish.

Also @ M Meru. you make a valid point about the whole Samus jab hint, but the way Zelda's multi-hits fail, and that there's not really rhyme or reason to it makes me believe it wasn't at least AS intentional as Samus's Jab. This is something I don't want to give up hope on. We can at least be thankful there are no hints telling us her multi-hits fail!

 

[LRodC]

Samus' jab and Zelda's smashes are a different story. I don't think it's correct to compare them. Shield cancelling Phantom would be cool, but again, don't get your hopes up for that. Were there any differences between 1.0.3 and 1.0.4 that actually changed how some moves worked and added different properties for any character? From what I remember, the biggest changes were just hitbox, lag, damage, and KB (sometimes angles) along with some bug fixing like with DACUS and the stupid thing Greninja could do with cancelling landing lag with Shadow Sneak.

There are plenty of ways to buff Zelda without having to change how moves work. Such changes would likely show up in the next game in the series.

 

[Zylach]

A buff Zelda could get is a faster Ftilt, faster Utilt, and AC aerials. At least a little f15-f20 on Fair would be great (more or less like in M² trailer). And make the Uair blast always having a hitbox, and AC before the hitbox appear.
And Shield cancel phantom. I don't care if it's storable, i want to be able to cancel it. All chargeable projectiles can be Shield cancel, why not ours?

There are several charge-able projectiles that can't be shielded while charging. Rosie's Neutral B comes to mind. Technically Bowser's Neutral B counts as well (It is a projectile and can't be shield cancelled). Bowser Jr's Neutral B as well. I don't expect this to change as Sakurai seems to have done this to these characters on purpose and probably won't go back on his decision.

In all honesty, I just wish some of our moves had a tad less endlag on them. I've faced very good Pikachus and Diddys who have very little lag on their moves and can punish me every single time I even use moves like dsmash which is our fastest smash attack as well as ftilt (It's a tilt, it should be fast). Giving Zelda something like even 15 frames of landing lag on nair, instead of 22, would benefit her greatly. As of now, our only landing options are dair and Nayru's, both of which are horribly unsafe. Having a more reliable nair to ground transition would make her significantly more powerful since she couldn't be as reliably trapped on landing.

Basically, Zelda is intended to be a character reliant on multihits to rack up damage and sweetspots for kills (generally) with preventative specials (phantom to stuff approaches and Nayru's to reflect and break combos). She kills early but is light so she dies early making her a glass cannon archetype but the whole cannon part is difficult to see when she is being juggled for eternity and her kill moves are slow to connect (fsmash, uair, phantom, din's) or are incredibly risky to use (fair, bair, phantom again, din's again, elevator). Not to mention, her specials, which are designed specifically to cater to that glass cannon archetype, don't do anything of the sort besides Nayru's. Phantom doesn't stuff approaches because the opponent can see it coming from a mile away and only has to jump to avoid it. Din's doesn't provide ranged pressure because it can also be seen coming from a mile away and the opponent simply has to shield it then rush towards her for a free punish because the endlag is longer than War and Peace. If Zelda's specials could actually do what they were designed to do, then she would actually be the glass cannon that she is supposed to be instead of being some awkward mix of heavy bruiser without the weight to keep her safe and ranged camper whose projectile game is one of the worst of the roster.

Basically, reducing endlag/landlag on Zelda's moves would make me happy. I love playing Zelda and those changes would make me love her even more. However, those changes will not make her great. Those changes will not give her more tourney representation as people clamor to pick her up and beat those damn monkeys with her. What Zelda needs in order to do that are sweeping changes to her specials alongside cleaning up the lag on her moves then she might be on the high end of middle tier at best (She'd kinda be like a heavy hitting Megaman if her specials worked the way I would expect them to work under the glass cannon archetype which would drastically change the way she plays so I'm not even sure if I would want these kinds of changes because I like her playstyle). Do I want Zelda to become a superpowered high-tier destroyer? Not really. The point to this whole spiel is that there are realistic changes (reducing lag) that would make me like her more and unrealistic changes (making her phantom and din's useful instead of nearly useless) that would make her significantly better but change her playstyle which would lead people to place her higher on tier lists and might give her more tourney rep. Those changes will never happen though so no one should be expecting Sakurai to "see the light" and make her into what she ought to be especially through balance patches of all things.

In conclusion, I'm not entirely sure where I was going with that post other than less lag is good but she still won't be a monkey-slaying warrior given only that and her phantom and din's are basically useless right now but they always will be so I don't know why I spent a whole paragraph talking about them. I guess that was just one big tangent on my part... sorry.

Rant over.

 

[Suicidal_Donuts]

I would love to contribute, but frest and Zylach took the words out of my mouth. Realistically, I could see them tweaking endlag on a couple moves or slightly increasing hitstun. It would be a dream come true if we could have a backthrow like Palutena's. Out of all the magic users, Zelda seems to have the weakest throws, when throwing opponents off the edge lets her do what she does best (edge guarding).

 

[Zylach]

I would love to contribute, but frest and Zylach took the words out of my mouth. Realistically, I could see them tweaking endlag on a couple moves or slightly increasing hitstun. It would be a dream come true if we could have a backthrow like Palutena's. Out of all the magic users, Zelda seems to have the weakest throws, when throwing opponents off the edge lets her do what she does best (edge guarding).

Granted, there aren't a lot of magic users to begin with. Ness, Palutena, Robin. Does Rosie count? I think Zelda's throws are generally better than Rosie's. Plus Zelda does a lot of damage with her throws besides dthrow which is meant to combo so, yeah. Her fthrow does some of the best damage out of all fthrows if I remember correctly. Doesn't do a whole lot other than that I'm afraid unless you need to use it to get the opponent off the stage. Our back throw can kill. Granted, it kills later than most of our other stuff but at least it is a reliable kill move at really high percents (120%ish)

 

[frest123]

Uthrow, Bthrow and Fthrow all do 10-12 percent if I'm not mistaken. Pretty decent. Her Dthrow does 6 + the possibility to combo into Nair (still very slim chance though since your opponent can just DI it right and jump away) or combo into Uair. I've seen some people hitting the labs with Dthrow + Zeldavator to net kills at ~60%. Might turn out to be a good option. All in all, her grab game is quite good if you'd ask me. Just working with it is a bit hard since she has such a slow dash speed.

 

[Zylach]

Uthrow and Dthrow are 11 and Fthrow is 12. Dthrow strings are all about reading the opponent's DI and baiting airdodges at mid-high percents. Low percents, it's fairly easy to string nairs off of Dthrow. It's the only possible combo starter we have besides dtilt, utilt, dair, and possibly jab (jab into grab or dash attack, maybe dashing usmash never tried it). I guess nair can start combos too using just the first hitbox to pop the opponent up into whatever move you want. Now that I think about it, that's quite a lot of combo starters for a heavy-hitter character. Her combo game is pretty decent (and by combo, I mean string. True combos are far and few between in sm4sh unless your name is Mario or Luigi).

Dthrow into the elevator is the most gimmicky of gimmicks. To make it work on an actual person, you need to bait an airdodge, otherwise it's way too easy for them to get away at kill percents.

 

[LRodC]

I feel f-tilt should get a reduction in ending lag even if it has to lose some power in exchange.

N-air, like others have said, is way too laggy on landing for some reason. The Lightning Kicks have a reason to be laggy, but this doesn't. Not saying it has to autocancel, but it should at least be reduced a few frames. Don't remember if it was as laggy in Brawl too. Her other tilts seem fine, her other aerials seem fair in landing lag. Maybe up air can receive a power boost? Don't see it happening due to the universal u-air nerf on the roster (Diddy, I know) but it can still happen.

Less starting lag on Phantom when uncharged, like I said before. Farore's is perfect. Din's could use less lag in general. Throws are perfect and grab lag seems okay considering the range.

Down smash is perfect, forward smash is perfect except it should be more reliable, and up smash should have more range/power and be more reliable.

 

[Suicidal_Donuts]

Granted, there aren't a lot of magic users to begin with. Ness, Palutena, Robin. Does Rosie count? I think Zelda's throws are generally better than Rosie's. Plus Zelda does a lot of damage with her throws besides dthrow which is meant to combo so, yeah. Her fthrow does some of the best damage out of all fthrows if I remember correctly. Doesn't do a whole lot other than that I'm afraid unless you need to use it to get the opponent off the stage. Our back throw can kill. Granted, it kills later than most of our other stuff but at least it is a reliable kill move at really high percents (120%ish)

I suppose I haven't looked at it that way. I have noticed that her throws do decent damage, and Zelda can KO earlier than most (although not reliably). The only times I've gotten her throws to KO have been at least 140%, probably less in rage, which seems a bit high for Zelda since her other kill moves KO much earlier.
Back on topic, after using Zelda against actually decent people outside of For Glory, I think some of her dead zones should be cleaned up a tad (the Phantom and Ftilt), like others were saying. Also, since developers usually tend to listen to the Japanese audience, who thinks Zelda is bottom tier again, this could mean we could get definite buffs.

 

[LRodC]

I suppose I haven't looked at it that way. I have noticed that her throws do decent damage, and Zelda can KO earlier than most (although not reliably). The only times I've gotten her throws to KO have been at least 140%, probably less in rage, which seems a bit high for Zelda since her other kill moves KO much earlier.
Back on topic, after using Zelda against actually decent people outside of For Glory, I think some of her dead zones should be cleaned up a tad (the Phantom and Ftilt), like others were saying. Also, since developers usually tend to listen to the Japanese audience, who thinks Zelda is bottom tier again, this could mean we could get definite buffs.

What dead zones are you talking about with f-tilt and phantom? From what I used of the Phantom, phantom seems to always hit when the sword makes contact. Would like to hear about f-tilt though.

 

[BJN39]

What dead zones are you talking about with f-tilt and phantom? From what I used of the Phantom, phantom seems to always hit when the sword makes contact. Would like to hear about f-tilt though.

Ehh, Ftilt at point-blank on slimmer characters can whiff, oddly, and sometimes the Phantom will brush past opponents at high or full charge and miss them completely at point-blank. Both of these (Particularly Ftilt's issue.) could be really nice to have fixed. The Ftilt one can actually happen under normal circumstances in battles. The Phantom one is less likely because no one is usually just standing right in front of Zelda during her usage of it, but it's still an issue.

 

[Meek Moths]

aaide from the obvious like up smash, i just want faster jab

 

[Phenomiracle]

From her development to game release last year, it's fairly obvious that Sakurai probably views the single powerhouse move that Farore's Wind is as the sole justification for all of Zelda's nerfs from Brawl.

I'm completely certain that literally any significant buffs (significant as in, just a jib better than her super-OP-hoohah Utilt buff in 1.0.5) that come her way would be coupled with a nerf to Farore's Wind, as awful as it sounds.

 

[frest123]

Oh hell naw. Spare the FW Sakurai

Your logic does make sense though.

Let's just hope she actually gets buffs or left alone if not. Please no nerfs.... (Glances over at how miserable Greninja is compared to what it was)

 

[Meek Moths]

greninja deserved some nerfs like his ridiculous upsmash and sneak bug fix, but the rest like forward air nerf...not really deserved. hes still high tier in the right hands though

 

[.Shìkì]

I'd love if they changed D-Throw to be able to combo into Bair/Fair sweetspots, but Its never gonna happen...at least not intentionally. And then the obligatory no freefall after Dins, Storable Phantom, and being able to act out of FW (lol). But yeah, i doubt there will be any significant changes...although there is a sliver of hope they took a look at the japanese Tier-List and saw the "Zelda sucks" status.

 

[Zylach]

I doubt that they'll base any changes on tier lists. Sakurai has only based balancing on online data which may mean we get absolutely nothing, buffs or nerfs. Granted, I don't have any of that online data but I don't see every single Zelda online losing to everyone else so that's all I can base my guess on.

 

[LRodC]

I usually do pretty well while using Zelda on for glory, so that's probably not gonna help much. Only times I really lose with her are when the other guy is better than I am or I screw up, and usually no character will change that.

That's not all he'll use though, or else Little Mac is getting a massive buff and Link is getting a massive nerf.

 

[JayWon]

Super armor on her neutral b. Give her Neutral-Air more priority and speed it up so it can be used as a "spammable" spacing tool. Like holy **** Ness is so spoiled with his F-air and N-air. Would be game changing if we have the option to not throw out a hitbox with very little landing lag on her up-special, similar to Meta knights down special. Store her Phantom (why does that thing even break? -_-;; ). No free fall after side special.

PM side special

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Even if Farore's Wind is nerfed in exchange for buffs, who cares? A 60% OOS KO move was totally unnecessary when they should have fixed her problems from Brawl. If we get people falling out of smash attacks fixed, reduced end lag/landing lag on attacks, and possible other buffs, getting rid of Farore's is absolutely worth it.

 

[LRodC]

Or we could just keep the elevator and get buffs alongside it.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

That would be the logical choice, but Sakurai isn't logical and probably will think that buffs + the elevator are too muxh

 

[Meru.]

Things I'd like to see but are not going to happen which means they're actually not realistic

Dtilt > Fair/Bair/Uair become guaranteed combos, with the sweetspots of course. You cannot escape them by DIing, but you can try to DI them to get Zelda to hit with her soutspot. Zelda will have to adapt and react in order to hit the sweetspot: if she does so correctly, she can kick her opponents in the face.

Ftilt sends them behind you and combos into sweetspot Bair at certain %s (from 60-90 or something). The blind spot can stay for all I care (you should have Dtilted them).

Dthrow > Uair is inescapable from around 80%+. Slightly stronger Bthrow would be nice too. The latter one is a pretty realistic change, I can see her Bthrow getting stronger.

Usmash kills 20% earlier or something. Her smashes being inescapable would be nice too but it's probably not going to happen.

And as a bonus reduced lag on Phantom and Din's. By the way, I think the reduced lag on Phantom may actually happen. It's ridiculous how slow this move is, and you can't even use it consecutively!

Some people might think she will get overpowered with these changes but I can assure you she will become like bottom of high tier AT BEST even with all of these changes implemented, and that's being quite optimistic. Zelda is full of weaknesses. Awful at approaching, slow running speed, floaty, light, non-existing aerial game, unsafe on many attacks, high start-up on many attacks... I could go on still. Zelda is meant to be a glass cannon. If you are going to give her THIS much of glass, then you'd better give her A LOT of cannon too!

 

[BJN39]

Things I'd like to see but are not going to happen which means they're actually not realistic

Dtilt > Fair/Bair/Uair become guaranteed combos, with the sweetspots of course. You cannot escape them by DIing, but you can try to DI them to get Zelda to hit with her soutspot. Zelda will have to adapt and react in order to hit the sweetspot: if she does so correctly, she can kick her opponents in the face.

Ftilt sends them behind you and combos into sweetspot Bair at certain %s (from 60-90 or something). The blind spot can stay for all I care (you should have Dtilted them).

Dthrow > Uair is inescapable from around 80%+. Slightly stronger Bthrow would be nice too. The latter one is a pretty realistic change, I can see her Bthrow getting stronger.

Usmash kills 20% earlier or something. Her smashes being inescapable would be nice too but it's probably not going to happen.

And as a bonus reduced lag on Phantom and Din's. By the way, I think the reduced lag on Phantom may actually happen. It's ridiculous how slow this move is, and you can't even use it consecutively!

Some people might think she will get overpowered with these changes but I can assure you she will become like bottom of high tier AT BEST even with all of these changes implemented, and that's being quite optimistic. Zelda is full of weaknesses. Awful at approaching, slow running speed, floaty, light, non-existing aerial game, unsafe on many attacks, high start-up on many attacks... I could go on still. Zelda is meant to be a glass cannon. If you are going to give her THIS much of glass, then you'd better give her A LOT of cannon too!

Okay, this gorl knows some of exactly what I was thinking.

The Dtilt change could be achieved by moving the IASA a few frame earlier. This would also make the move just a little better in other situations, but I see this as completely fair, and I looked up some stats to prove it:

Diddy Kong's Dtilt is better in practically every way to Zelda's--faster to hit by 1 frame, 1.5% more damage, definitely longer ranged, and I highly doubt it doesn't have less endlag that Zelda's Dtilt. So for Zelda's to become just a little better is completely fair if there are moves functionally just like her Dtilt but all around better.

While this change is fair, I'm less optimistic we'll actually get to see it.

More KB on Usmash and Bthrow simply should happen.

Reduced Phantom Slash endlag was the only helpful thing I could see happening as well. Right now the release animation totals to roughly 50 FRAMES. That's longer than the average charge-type shot move, (Or even like, DK's punch.) If it were given IASA 10 frames earlier, (visually I think this is RIGHT when she starts lowering her hand.) it would have roughly the same endlag as Din's Fire, which, for Phantom slash is far more fair. I'm personally fine with Din's endlag, I'd consider it a lower priority, but nice if we could have it.

The change outcomes to Dthrow or Ftilt couldn't be accomplished simply enough in a balance patch imo, (Ftilt would have to have an endlag reduction as well to work.) or the changes would add some inadvertent silliness, which... I would mind Zelda having...

 

[Macchiato]

i just want brawl Uair tbh

 

[Meek Moths]

melee uair with brawl kill power