What our current N.Air has over Brawl's N.Air...

[Angiance]

Many seem to wish for Brawl N.Air because of how strong it's knockback is, but pikachu disregard the positives we have with our current N.Air, so I'll list them...

Positive #1~ Combo Ability
Low Knockback but good hitstun: this is what most complain about is the weak knockback. While the weak knockback means we can't KO as early as we could in Brawl, N.Air still has a good amount of hitstun meaning the opponent will be left close enough for us to follow-up with more attacks.

Positive #2 ~ New Properties
Something else our current N.Air has is that it shrinks our hurtbox (enough that it's actually inside of the hitbox I believe, but I'm not sure). With our hurtbox shrunken, we are able to squeeze through many hitboxes and hit the opponent through their attack.

Positive #3 ~ Gimping Ability
Because of how low the knockback on the strong hit is, we can setup for things offstage since the opponent won't be knocked so far away.

Positive #4 ~ Knockdown
Because the knockback is so low, it will put them in a situation where they have to try to tech which incredibly good for us to have.

Positive #5 ~ Less Hitlag?
I'm not 100% sure on this or not, but I believe N.Air has less hitlag which allows for us to follow-up better and be safer on hit confirm

There are probably some things I need to list, but N.Air definitely has it's positives over Brawl's N.Air-in fact, if N.Air were to recieve any sort of buff it should be *less landing lag*, because it'll allow us to attack at wild speeds and it'll give us brand new true comboes.

 

[Uncle Honey]

Less landing lag and more knockback; cake and eat it too?

 

[Ritronaut]

usually i use nair as a finisher, i rarely ever combo out of it. I think there's no arguing that pikachu is probably one of the characters that has a harder time killing in smash 4, it's part of his design. His brawl nair would amend that, an air dodge read at high percent = death. Also gimps offstage with nair would be extremely more likely to net an actual kill, instead of a gimp.I admit that the smash 4 nair has its benefits, but I'd take brawl nair over Smash 4 nair anyday.

 

[Gibbs]

Nair probably is pika's worst aerial in terms of combo potential. I mean at least Dair reliably can set up edgegaurd scenarios and force techs reliably.

It's also arguably one of the worst frame 3 nairs in the game. I would take gladly take Fox's, Yoshi's, Sheik's, Weegee's, Mario's, Doc's nair over pika's in a second.

 

[MeteorSpike]

Nair probably is pika's worst aerial in terms of combo potential. I mean at least Dair reliably can set up edgegaurd scenarios and force techs reliably.

It's also arguably one of the worst frame 3 nairs in the game. I would take gladly take Fox's, Yoshi's, Sheik's, Weegee's, Mario's, Doc's nair over pika's in a second.

i think fox's nair is frame 4

 

[Ritronaut]

i think fox's nair is frame 4

it is, but i think its better than pika's frame 3. That nair has virtually NO landing lag and leads into upsmash.

 

[Angiance]

Except our N.Air is our main aerial since it has so much utility

You can setup powerful frame advantages with the late frames of N.Air: Ex. if you sh offstage and then ah N.Air and move back onstage so that N.Air immediately autocancels, you've covered the ledge and given yourself a good frame advantage depending on how your opponent reacts

 

[Gibbs]

Main aerial, really? I mean it has a lot utility sure, but its totally mediocre in all of its scenarios. Its an ok combo finisher, its an ok combo breaker, an ok kill move, an ok edgegaurding tool, ok at ledge coverage, an ok OOS option. It's not really great at anything and has almost no uses in neutral. IMO its one of the weaker links in pika's moveset.

 

[M15t3R E]

In the neutral game, all the other frame 3-4 nairs are better for approaching and comboing but we can take advantage of Pika's nair's lingering hitbox while edgeguarding. That said, it can be used in the middle of a combo. It's just not easy.

 

[Angiance]

Our N.Air literally defines our neutral game, what are you all talking about?...

 

[Ritronaut]

Our N.Air literally defines our neutral game, what are you all talking about?...

I disagree. I think nair is our worst aerial in terms of utility. It's still good though, obviously.I'd trade it for brawl nair in a heartbeat though. If any aerial could be traded out for a killing aerial and lose most of its utility, I'd definitely chose nair.

 

[Verduyn]

It's got to be said though footstool to nair is swag as ****. Also on certain characters (DK is the only one I can think of off the top of my head) it sends horizontally which is incredible offstage for stagespikes and general gimping. Shame it doesn't work on every character though

 

[Angiance]

Our N.Air can be done out of our dash and out of our shield, which gives us a very good meaning of attack. It is also impenetrable as a defense since it's literally our body

 

[M15t3R E]

Our N.Air can be done out of our dash and out of our shield, which gives us a very good meaning of attack. It is also impenetrable as a defense since it's literally our body

So it has good utility as a move in the disadvantage state, when the opponent has momentum. How is it more valuable than other aerials in the neutral game?

 

[Angiance]

Because of the fact that it allows us to put a hitbox out that hits low-to-high and is the fastest we have. D.Air takes a long time to come out and only works well if we're countering something; F.Air doesn't hit low unless we rise and then fall with it, but that takes a while which gives the opponent a very large window to react and counter; U.Air is our second most important attack next to N.Air, but it does not hit low unless we fall and do it, which is completely impractical; T.Jolt takes an EXTREMELY long time to come out, which gives the opponent a gigantic window to react to and counter, so it's only really useful if we have a frame advantage

 

[Ritronaut]

Because of the fact that it allows us to put a hitbox out that hits low-to-high and is the fastest we have. D.Air takes a long time to come out and only works well if we're countering something; F.Air doesn't hit low unless we rise and then fall with it, but that takes a while which gives the opponent a very large window to react and counter; U.Air is our second most important attack next to N.Air, but it does not hit low unless we fall and do it, which is completely impractical; T.Jolt takes an EXTREMELY long time to come out, which gives the opponent a gigantic window to react to and counter, so it's only really useful if we have a frame advantage

I disagree with how important you make the move out to be, but let me just take a second here to clarify; Are you saying that Smash 4 Nair > Brawl Nair, or that smash 4 nair isn't "that bad" and it shouldn't be considered a big loss that its not like brawl's?

 

[Angiance]

I'm saying they're both good in their own right.

Personally, I prefer our current N.Air for the simple fact that it's been redesigned for setups rather than KOs.

 

[The Legendary Big Boss]

Smash 4 Pikachu's n-air is decent, but I would definitely prefer Brawl's n-air again. Pikachu does not need a versatile n-air. Pikachu has a juggling u-air, a nice f-air that can lead to follow ups or edge-guards, a b-air that edge-guards, and a strong d-air that hits hard, forces techs, and can hit the ground if necessary. What Pikachu needs is an aerial kill move besides hoping on Thunder to connect or something.

 

[Angiance]

Giving us one thing won't make anyone suddenly fight better and win tournaments; giving someone a new KO option won't improve their fundamentals nor will it improve their skill level

 

[The Legendary Big Boss]

Giving us one thing won't make anyone suddenly fight better and win tournaments; giving someone a new KO option won't improve their fundamentals nor will it improve their skill level

That may be true Angiance, but a solid aerial kill option will increase the viability of the character.

 

[Soul.]

I think both Brawl and 3DS/Wii U NAir are fine, but since we're in need of KO moves to not make the character pessimistic (yes people are pessimistic about Pikachu) I'd just go with Brawl NAir, if only because it kills.

Not saying I despise our current NAir, because I don't, but still.

 

[Angiance]

More viable? What are you talking about, we're top ranked...

 

[The Legendary Big Boss]

I understand that. I am just saying that having a kill aerial would make Pikachu even better. This is merely my opinion. I am not trying to cause an argument or anything.

 

[Angiance]

Yes, well, your opinion is meaningless so...bye

 

[The Legendary Big Boss]

Wow, thanks for that. I am glad to meet such a nice member in the community. Perhaps this whole thread is meaningless too. Cya

 

[Uncle Honey]

I'm saying they're both good in their own right.

Personally, I prefer our current N.Air for the simple fact that it's been redesigned for setups rather than KOs.

I wouldn't give the balance team that much credit. I'm willing to bet they changed it on a whim without take into account how it would change the character as a whole. I think of the Smash 4 balance team as being "constantly behind the current meta".

 

[Angiance]

What? I said nothing like that-just that N.Air now functions differently. Wow, geez

 

[Ritronaut]

Yes, well, your opinion is meaningless so...bye

Do you get personally offended by these discussions or something...? Were having a discussion here, its kind of expected you don't throw around insults at people.

Giving us one thing won't make anyone suddenly fight better and win tournaments; giving someone a new KO option won't improve their fundamentals nor will it improve their skill level

Of course it would make pikachus fight better. Let me give you an example such as Diddy, except this is kind of reversed. Diddy lost a kill aerial and went from #1, to to top 5 (this is before the extra nerfs) Sure he got more nerfs than that but the main one was that his up air doesn't kill anymore. If they were to make our Nair kill, (none of our aerials even kill atm) it'd be like the opposite of what happened to Diddy, you get a kill buff, and your character becomes better. (although it's a little tenuous because Diddy's up air killed way better than our brawl Nair).

Obviously it won't make fundamentals better but it would be probably one of our most reliable killing option (after all, it was one of his most reliable ones in brawl). A kill aerial with Pikachu will make it so much more easy to kill with him. most of his kill options are sub-par. His fsmash, is slow, laggy, and punishable, his upsmash has incredibly low range, and until we perfect up throw to thunder (which doesn't actually reliably kill midstage if they DI right) killing is hard. Brawl nair will allow us to read an air dodge, and kill for it. Up air to Nair at high percents, and kill for it. I think it would be better than our nair right now.

 

[Angiance]

One change won't make you fight any better. We're already top ranked, so if you aren't fighting well then that's your own fault. Shiek has no reliable KO methods, yet she is ranked as the best in the game-just think about that for a second...

 

[Ritronaut]

One change won't make you fight any better. We're already top ranked, so if you aren't fighting well then that's your own fault. Shiek has no reliable KO methods, yet she is ranked as the best in the game-just think about that for a second...

You can't really compare Pikachu to sheik because sheik is incredibly safe on shield and can camp with needles and spam fair until it kills. But I'll humor you.

Now lets imagine sheik's nair killed. Sheik would become a lot better AND be totally broken. It would obviously make her better if she had her insane neutral + a good killing option. Just cause a character is good doesn't mean they can't become better. Also, this isn't a matter of anybody "fighting well" whether I fight well with Pikachu or not, Nair would give him a better kill option than the ones he has right now. I know he's viable and I know he doesnt NEED his brawl nair, but it would amend his lack of reliable KO methods, thus making him better than he is right now, in my opinion.

 

[Angiance]

Yes, but most people believe that the reason they are not doing so well with Pikachu is because they cannot get the KO, and my point is that attaining a new KO move won't make them any better at fighting. We already have a numerous amount of ways to setup for our KO attacks, we really don't need more than what we have.

U.Smash is an extremely flexible KO attack since it can be done out of our dash

U.Throw > Thunder isn't actually that difficult to land, and even if they dodge they may get KOd off top by the bolt

Outside of direct KO attacks we have about a million ways to gimp and KO our opponent at low percents.

 

[Soul.]

I don't understand why people think of the character as top tier material. We don't know yet.
Every time someone says Pikachu is top tier, dumb arguments happen. We realize the Pokémon doesn't suck, but top tier? That remains to be seen.

 

[Ritronaut]

Yes, but most people believe that the reason they are not doing so well with Pikachu is because they cannot get the KO, and my point is that attaining a new KO move won't make them any better at fighting. We already have a numerous amount of ways to setup for our KO attacks, we really don't need more than what we have.

U.Smash is an extremely flexible KO attack since it can be done out of our dash

U.Throw > Thunder isn't actually that difficult to land, and even if they dodge they may get KOd off top by the bolt

Outside of direct KO attacks we have about a million ways to gimp and KO our opponent at low percents.

Upsmash has low range and is extremely punishable because in order to use it, you must be very close to your opponent. Up throw to thunder is a very good kill set up, but it's much harder to land than Nair (not to mention a lot more research needs to go into it). If nair killed it would definitely make people gain the KO a lot more easily and consistently. We don't NEED the killing nair, but having it would make Pikachu a better character in my opinion.

 

[Angiance]

Your words show how low in skill you are, they really do.

U.Smash is the only normal we have that can be done from a dash, which gives it a great deal of range since we'll slide with it.

I'm done talking to you, go waste someone elses time

 

[Jmacz]

I don't understand why people think of the character as top tier material. We don't know yet.
Every time someone says Pikachu is top tier, dumb arguments happen. We realize the Pokémon doesn't suck, but top tier? That remains to be seen.

I feel the same way, until someone other than ESAM starts doing anything with Pikachu it's really hard to say. Especially when ESAM will just randomly lose to people, opening up a lot of questions on bad MU's and such.

And OP, why you getting so defensive? What has Ritronaut actually done wrong here, you seem to be kind of being a ****.

 

[Ritronaut]

Your words show how low in skill you are, they really do.

U.Smash is the only normal we have that can be done from a dash, which gives it a great deal of range since we'll slide with it.

I'm done talking to you, go waste someone elses time

All I heard was "I lost this discussion, so I'm going to insult you instead"

Grow up.

 

[Soul.]

I feel the same way, until someone other than ESAM starts doing anything with Pikachu it's really hard to say. Especially when ESAM will just randomly lose to people, opening up a lot of questions on bad MU's and such.

I dunno, it's come to a point where the word "pessimism" rhymes well with Pikachu. Just seems like people are overrating it. If Pikachu was really a top tier, people would then say it has no weaknesses when it clearly does.

No, I don't think it sucks, but with losing MUs such as ,, and potentially some people think it's better as a counterpick character, not solo main viable.

 

[Ritronaut]

I dunno, it's come to a point where the word "pessimism" rhymes well with Pikachu. Just seems like people are overrating it. If Pikachu was really a top tier, people would then say it has no weaknesses when it clearly does.

No, I don't think it sucks, but with losing MUs such as ,, and potentially some people think it's better as a counterpick character, not solo main viable.

I thought he was even with mario, I know he loses to luigi, slightly loses to ness, but beats fox pretty well? I think Pikachu is viable as a solo main, I'd still keep secondaries though. It seems that the best secondary for him would be Rosalina if he loses those matchups.

 

[Angiance]

You are what we call "low rank," your mind lacks the ability to percieve and see things in greater depth-I don't associate myself with those that lack the ability to see things in greater depth, if I were able to remove you from this thread, believe me, I would

 

[Ritronaut]

You are what we call "low rank," your mind lacks the ability to percieve and see things in greater depth-I don't associate myself with those that lack the ability to see things in greater depth, if I were able to remove you from this thread, believe me, I would

Wow buddy I think you need to relax a little. Calm down, seriously. You can be as condescending as you like, I really don't care, but at least show some respect towards other people. I don't even know if I have anything productive to say because we went from discussing Pikachu to you getting offended in some way and throwing out insults. I really thought we were just discussing Pikachu, I wasn't trying to get you heated. I don't think I really want to concern myself with people who start throwing out insults in a discussion just because they get a little frustrated. You're the only one wasting your time getting mad over petty things like this.