What our current N.Air has over Brawl's N.Air...

[Angiance]

Leave, now. I strongly dislike you, so leave my thread

 

[Ritronaut]

Leave, now. I strongly dislike you, so leave my thread

It's like talking to a 5 year old... Alright, I'll leave your thread since you asked so nicely.

 

[IsmaR]

You are what we call "low rank," your mind lacks the ability to percieve and see things in greater depth-I don't associate myself with those that lack the ability to see things in greater depth, if I were able to remove you from this thread, believe me, I would

Keep this talk and attitude up, and your thread will be locked, and your posts warned.

Differing opinions from others do not warrant this constant flaming, nor elitist attitude.

 

[Uncle Honey]

One change won't make you fight any better..

This is incorrect. This reasoning lines parallel to "every character is good. It's the player," which is a fallacious statement if only because it diverts focus away from the attributes of the character and onto the player. Donkey Kong is better because he got one incredible kill option. Diddy Kong is worse because he lost one. Sonic is worse because he lost one. Robin is better because he gained one. Etc. Options define a character and if a character is lacking the most important option, it will suffer.

Edit: Also, fact: Sheik's matchup spread, neutral, pressure, momentum, and kill options are better than Pikachu's. The only thing Pikachu does better than Sheik is gimp.

 

[Angiance]

Irrelevant

 

[Gibbs]

U.Smash is an extremely flexible KO attack since it can be done out of our dash

Angiance I respect your pika zeal, but remember that most discussion is done in terms of the meta. Can pika's JC upsmash kill, sure, but is it even remotely as good as Mario's, Luigi's, Yoshi's, Roy's, Fox's, Diddy's, Megaman's? No it's not.

Only frames 10-11 have kill potential. They only hit directly in front of pika, super close. It doesn't have much shield pushback, and it's FAF is frame 47. With 30+ frames of end lag it is crazy minus on block or spot dodge. It's also super telegraphed since you have to be right in their face in order for it to be dangerous.

This is what people mean when they say something lacks range. No one would say rest has lots of range just cause jigglypuff has great aerial mobility. It's a massive commitment to u-smash as pika, where you have to put your hurtbox almost on top of the opponents in order to land a kill.

Also nothing in pika's kit reliably links into it, besides maybe FF fair (no one has labbed this enough to know when fair > usmash is true).

 

[Angiance]

Why are we making comparences? That's an incorrect way to judge a move in terms of usefulness.

Our U.Smash is out extremely fast and KOs fairly well, plus as we go for it we can stop and cancel our dash with a jump or shield, so yes it's flexible in that regard

 

[Gibbs]

We make comparisons because pikachu is not the only character in the game.

Frame 10 is not quick, especially when there are 30+ frames of end lag. Moves that are super unsafe, have no reliable setups, have the majority of active hitboxes do useless things are by definition not very useful except as a punish or hard hard read.

Sure u-smash is one of our best kills, but that doesn't make amazing or versitile. The mechanic of jump cancelling doesn't make it good. There's a reason walking, foxtrotting, and perfect pivots are so important in this game, running is just bad.

 

[Angiance]

You speak to me as if I don't know anything, sir. It is a SMASH ATTACK, so yes, frame 10 is quite fast considering.

If you're wanting to decide how useful an attack is for your character, you don't do so by comparing said attack to another character's attack because in the end, you'll still wind up having to understand why your character's attack is useful for them; comparing Pikachu's U.Tilt to Meta Knight's U.Tilt isn't gonna say anything about our U.Tilt in the end, is it...

Our U.Smash is a very good attack, I don't know where you get off saying it's not that great-like, really?

Also: you miss understand what I'm saying...

If I charge at my opponent for U.Smash, they'll react in some way. Because I can cancel my dash by jumping or shielding, I can take advantage of how my opponent reacted to believing I was going for U.Smash.

I'd like you tell me another quick Smash Attack that can be done from a dash and OoS, and comes out at the front, because that's a whole hell of a lot of utility in my opinion

 

[Gibbs]

Foxtrot and pivot fsmash provide more utility in neutral and as a punishment tool. It is a little slower, but its range makes it much safer. Sure usmash kills earlier, but it is so unsafe you can't really use it.

Also usmash is a pretty mediocre oos option. Opponents who understand and respect shield in this game won't get hit by the sweet spot.

 

[Soul.]

It's "relatively fast" for an up smash, but even then frame 10 isn't as mind-blowing as having a frame 5 usmash (???), nor is it fast compared to other moves below frame 10.
Usmash is a good kill move, yes, but it's just that. Good.

 

[Angiance]

Whatever, believe whatever you all want to.

 

[Jmacz]

Also nothing in pika's kit reliably links into it, besides maybe FF fair (no one has labbed this enough to know when fair > usmash is true).

Actually, if we land a t-jolt after a full hop and run up after it we can true combo into U-Smash, pretty sure that's all we have at high percents since FF Fair doesn't seem to register as a combo. Correct me if I'm wrong but that along with U-Throw -> Thunder. these are our only kill confirms? Which is pretty much why it would be a lot better to have our Brawl Nair.

 

[Angiance]

You're all just really damned slow as pikachu on the battlefield

 

[Megamang]

Actually, if we land a t-jolt after a full hop and run up after it we can true combo into U-Smash, pretty sure that's all we have at high percents since FF Fair doesn't seem to register as a combo. Correct me if I'm wrong but that along with U-Throw -> Thunder. these are our only kill confirms? Which is pretty much why it would be a lot better to have our Brawl Nair.

She won't listen to any reasoning about tjolt/anything at all. I don't mean to single someone out, but its really sad that literally everyone in this thread is just trying to smash thru a brick wall of angst/elitism/ignorance instead of doing stuff we need to do, make progress on this character. She literally PM'd me and started the same crap about being low level, you pester her for any proof behind his insults and she eventually gives you a ****ty online recording of her beating someone by just sprinting around... idk, but if anyone is involved in a PM convo with her I'd advise its a dead end. EDIT: Fixed gender pronouns, I think i got all of them.

Anyways, I like the running Tjolt to cover A LOT, including smashes. If they start spot dodging this, you can slow down a tad (slow run, check that tech of the week out) where they can't tell the difference visually, but you can space a perfect pivot grab => b-throw, and that chucks them out into a ledge guard situation, which is nice for setting up f-smash/gimp killing.


Gibbs we need to lab out that setup, really really badly. If I can kill, or even set up a 1/3rd chance to kill, I'd love it, so long as there isn't a universal escape. As of right now, I usually get naired, or jump AD depending on situation, and I feel like I can't finish them off.

Any experience, or replays, where you felt it was a combo? I'll try and lab it out with my friend today, but a general idea would make a huge difference.

 

[Angiance]

Megamang
You WILL acknowledge me as female-and for the record, my fighting ability is 10x greater than yours or any of these pikachu

 

[Soul.]

If this is the way we're going to improve the character's meta (elitism), I don't see us doing much. Constantly neglecting others' opinions and having only one taken as "I'm right" isn't a discussion, it's asking to derail the thread by arguing. Which will then result in the character "sucking."

I don't think anyone here wants these boards to be elitist, ignorant or whatever. The other Pikachu boards weren't like this.

Drop this argument and move on.

 

[Ritronaut]

This thread stopped bearing fruit the instant the elitism started, we either ignore her and just keep discussing Pikachu, or don't bother with the thread at all.

 

[Angiance]

Awww, you acknowledged me as female-thanks~ ^ w ^

 

[Megamang]

I'd say let the thread die, as far as gameplay goes there isn't much to be gleaned from just comparing the moves from a different game. Pika'd be great with n64 B-throw, for damn sure...

 

[Angiance]

But I like my thread-it speaks of technical uses for N.Air and explains why our current N.Air shouldn't be shunned

 

[Megamang]

The point of it being a thread is to start a discourse. You immediately attacked anyone that offered opinions different than yours. There are uses for the nair now, and its an integral part of pika's kit, but... it killing would help. Either way, it is totally immaterial because he isn't randomly getting his brawl nair back anytime soon, nor can you somehow make the decision to have it unless you decide to play brawl.

 

[Angiance]

The *point* of this thread (how many times do I need to repeat myself) is to show those that believe the current N.Air isn't that great, that it is in fact an incredible attack to have

 

[Jmacz]

If this is the way we're going to improve the character's meta (elitism), I don't see us doing much. Constantly neglecting others' opinions and having only one taken as "I'm right" isn't a discussion, it's asking to derail the thread by arguing. Which will then result in the character "sucking."

I don't think anyone here wants these boards to be elitist, ignorant or whatever. The other Pikachu boards weren't like this.

Drop this argument and move on.

I don't think there is a "we" the only person here being elitist is Angiance, she's obviously a troll and should be banned imo. One look at her post history should be enough proof.

 

[Yink]

Megamang
You WILL acknowledge me as female-and for the record, my fighting ability is 10x greater than yours or any of these pikachu

Smashboards is a place open to all, but really, this statement just makes us other Smash ladies look bad. I enjoyed this thread up until you used your gender to make a point. There is no point in throwing your gender into this. Your peers were trying to discuss with you in open discussion Pikachu's Nair. Stop throwing around something that isn't relevant at all.

Next time try to be a little more open-minded. I'm sorry to the other Pikas who genuinely wanted this topic to flourish and saw it teeter off course so badly.