what is the most exciting thing about ssb4

[Jet300]

I'm excited about: What characters are going to be there, who will get replaced, new stages, music, trophies, the story, what characters have been buff or nerfed, and Fox mccloud kickin' it since 64.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

That's ridiculous. New characters are essential for further improvement of the game and gives more reasons to actually buy the game. I know it sounds shallow, but some people actually think that it's pointless buying a sequel with the roster intact since that would make it basically the same game as the predecessor.

While this is half true, i have to say expanding the roster isn't really the only concept that "improves" the game. The whole Melee VS Brawl debate proves that. I do want to see new characters of course, but don't make that the main focus of the development. Online is in desperate need of a huge makeover, as well is the story mode. I don't even want to start on the gameplay mechanic and physics.

 

[Kirbunny431]

While this is half true, i have to say expanding the roster isn't really the only concept that "improves" the game. The whole Melee VS Brawl debate proves that. I do want to see new characters of course, but don't make that the main focus of the development. Online is in desperate need of a huge makeover, as well is the story mode. I don't even want to start on the gameplay mechanic and physics.

True, but the marketing mostly focuses on the characters. Bringing together Nintendo characters is the whole point of Smash Bros. The average consumer (let's assume they've at least played Brawl) won't be very willing to buy a game where all you can say for the roster is: "HAS THE SAME CHARACTERS AS LAST TIME!"

Granted, a game shouldn't be judged just because of the amount of characters. But Smash Bros. brings Nintendo characters together in a great big fray. It's the main selling point to old and new consumers. If they don't have anything new characters to play around with, the average consumer will just consider it Brawl HD, no matter how much they improve the story mode or the online or the physics.

Also, I know you didn't say "SSB4 certainly does not need new characters whatsoever!" I'm just saying that the characters are still quite vital to the game, despite all of the other improvements that need to be made.

 

[Morin0]

There's the original quote. Originally, everyone was saying that this meant that new characters wouldn't be showing up. That SSB4 would have the same characters as Brawl and/or Melee, but give the game something entirely new. However, that was before the "Sakurai Confirms the Appearance of New Characters" post. So, he must be talking about cutting a lot of veterans to make room for new characters, right? That's what brings us to our discussion.

I don't personally think so. I don't think we'll be seeing that many cuts. This quote came before the reveal that Namco-Bandai was working on the game. Granted, Sakurai probably knew about their involvement before the interview, but I digress.

Let's ignore the question of whether Sakurai knew about Namdai's involvement during the interview or not. This is Namco-Bandai we're talking about. As in, Tekken. Soul Caliber. They know how to work with tons of characters. Sakurai said he won't be doing the balancing all by himself any more, so it won't be so difficult to balance a massive roster. That sounds like a decent indicator to me.

Also, as we all very well know, Sakurai is a very confusing man. Sometimes he tells the truth, sometimes he lies, and sometimes he pulls a Ben Kenobi and tells the truth "from a certain point of view." The quote could mean exactly what it says: no more than 35 characters. However, he could change his mind. He could be lying. He could also mean something entirely different.

I might be extremely optimistic. I might also be in deep denial. But I have a feeling that we'll be getting more characters than Brawl without seeing too many (if any) cuts. Namco-Bandai is great with massive rosters. Sakurai also knows that players love to have as many characters as they can get. The roster will probably only/mostly increase. That's my take on it.

Darn, I was looking at the wrong quote then. But I do remember that quote. You make some very valid points but I'd like say that Sakurai basically went against his word. So who is to say that he wouldn't do it again?

"That's ridiculous."

We're talking about the man who invented hitstun canceling, Ove. And as ridiculous as it is, it doesn't make it any less accurate to what the man has said.

Hitstun canceling?

While this is half true, i have to say expanding the roster isn't really the only concept that "improves" the game. The whole Melee VS Brawl debate proves that. I do want to see new characters of course, but don't make that the main focus of the development. Online is in desperate need of a huge makeover, as well is the story mode. I don't even want to start on the gameplay mechanic and physics.

At least in my experience, finding out the new characters that will be playable is really fun and exciting. New characters aren't the deciding factor if I buy the game or not, however. Blind fanboyism is Think about how many people got interested in Brawl when Sonic was revealed. How can you tell how the game plays when you've only seen footage of the game? I think it's safe to say the characters and the content (e.g. Subspace Emissary, Boss mode etc) are huge selling points for most of the demographic that would buy the game. (Casuals.) I think for us, who play the game competitively, know what we are looking for and are a bit more critical of what is in the game. We're in the minority, though.

 

[Kink-Link5]

In Brawl, you can cancel hitstun after 16 frames with an air dodge or aerial attack. This is where the misconception that Brawl has "less" hitstun than Melee comes from. To see the actual length of hitstun, jump out of it as soon as possible.

 

[Kirbunny431]

Darn, I was looking at the wrong quote then. But I do remember that quote. You make some very valid points but I'd like say that Sakurai basically went against his word. So who is to say that he wouldn't do it again?

I have no way of proving that Sakurai won't keep changing his mind. Like I said, he's a fickle kind of guy. I'm just standing by the assumption that he won't change his mind again.

 

[Morin0]

Let's hope that he does

 

[Kirbunny431]

Indeed!

 

[ShadowSmasher98]

I got my information from the Smash News link "Sakurai Confirms Appearance of New Characters" but it looks like you're right. But I don't know what else to think of as the article says that Sakurai said Brawl was the limit for the roster. If you aren't making the roster bigger, but adding new and veteran characters, then it only makes sense that there will be cuts.

unless they make the pics of the characters on the character select screen smaller

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

unless they make the pics of the characters on the character select screen smaller

Wouldn't matter, character data eats up disc space. But i'm assuming that was sarcasm anyway.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Wouldn't matter, character data eats up disc space. But i'm assuming that was sarcasm anyway.

Not really, characters take up relatively little disc space compared to stuff like music and those Masterpiece demos.

 

[Kink-Link5]

.brstm files are ****ing massive. Like, MBs of data.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

.brstm files are ****ing massive. Like, MBs of data.

Yup. Some take up whole 3 1/4 floppies. So huge.

But yeah, they're the biggest individual space hog on the disk. Though I think the biggest file overall is the OoT rom.

 

[Morin0]

unless they make the pics of the characters on the character select screen smaller

Well, yeah, that's obvious. If you were to add in more characters, from a design perspective, you would have to scale down the entire roster to make room for the other characters.

Wouldn't matter, character data eats up disc space. But i'm assuming that was sarcasm anyway.

The Wii U discs will be 25 gigabytes in size. Disc space isn't an issue and ShadowSmasher98 wasn't even talking about disc space

Yup. Some take up whole 3 1/4 floppies. So huge.

But yeah, they're the biggest individual space hog on the disk. Though I think the biggest file overall is the OoT rom.

LOL.

EDIT: I don't think the reason why Sakurai said Brawl was more or less the limit for characters was because of a physical limitation like disc space.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

Not really, characters take up relatively little disc space compared to stuff like music and those Masterpiece demos.

Masterpieces was such a space occupier, they put in the entire games with time limits added. Whoop. Hopefully they aren't consindering Masterpieces 2.

Music however, Brawl had like 5 tracks or more for each stages. Are most people in favor that they revisit this, or should they go back to the two music for each stage formula like in Melee? I could live with this actually, because i usually just listen to my own music whenever i play Smash. But i know a lot of people care about the soundtrack.

 

[Kirbunny431]

I still don't see why they added Masterpieces (or the Chronicle, for that matter). All they do is take up space. I still think that some suit over at Nintendo approached Sakurai and told him to put VC demos in the game as advertisement. His Dojo post about it seems rather forced. Granted, it still has the usual Sakurai humor, but it sounds like a sales pitch, basically.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Masterpieces was such a space occupier, they put in the entire games with time limits added. Whoop. Hopefully they aren't consindering Masterpieces 2.

Music however, Brawl had like 5 tracks or more for each stages. Are most people in favor that they revisit this, or should they go back to the two music for each stage formula like in Melee? I could live with this actually, because i usually just listen to my own music whenever i play Smash. But i know a lot of people care about the soundtrack.

I think that if the music is better compressed, you could have Brawl amount of music but still not have it be such a space hog.

Also remember, the Wii U version will have MUCH more storage space than on the Wii, so there will probably be tons of extra space to go around.

 

[Mypantisgone]

the Wii U version will have MUCH more storage space than on the Wii U,

10charz.

 

[ShadowSmasher98]

Well, yeah, that's obvious. If you were to add in more characters, from a design perspective, you would have to scale down the entire roster to make room for the other characters.



The Wii U discs will be 25 gigabytes in size. Disc space isn't an issue and ShadowSmasher98 wasn't even talking about disc space

I'm not a computer geek, but I think 25gb is alot of space.

Anyways, SSE was a waste of a TON of space... all you really did was walk around killing enemys and such. If you want a side-scroller, just buy NSMB or something like that...

If they delete SSE and VC games (the games like Donkey Kong and OoT in SSBB), then there should be alot more space for characters, stages and such.

 

[Big-Cat]

As it was mentioned earlier, characters take up only a small amount of data. I wanna say the average was around 15-20 MB which is about three or four MP3 songs.

When it comes to characters, memory has never been an issue for Smash. Usually, it's budget (SSB) or time constraints (Melee and Brawl) that keep characters back. Besides, balance is a more pressing issue.

 

[Kirbunny431]

OoT was still a huge waste of space no matter how you slice it.

Either way, Kuma is right. Space is the least of their worries. Time, budget, and balance are their real concerns. Although, as I stated in my post on the previous page, the latter shouldn't be an issue what with Namdai on board.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Namco is known to have its fair share of balance issues when it comes to including a mix of "Easy to use" characters and "Hard but good" characters. There's a degree of subtlety that hard to approach with an entirely new game.

 

[Big-Cat]

Namco is known to have its fair share of balance issues when it comes to including a mix of "Easy to use" characters and "Hard but good" characters.

You could argue that this kind of balance is subjective. What ultimately matters is if the cast is balanced in strengths and weaknesses, not the learning curve.

This actually reminds me of something regarding the whole casual-hardcore debate. I would rather approach things to where the design should be intuitive. The smaller shield idea that's been discussed is an example of this. Press a button to lift a shield and use the control stick to move the stick to block attacks. It's simple in concept, very easy to understand, and very indepth.

 

[Kink-Link5]

You could argue that this kind of balance is subjective. What ultimately matters is if the cast is balanced in strengths and weaknesses, not the learning curve.

This actually reminds me of something regarding the whole casual-hardcore debate. I would rather approach things to where the design should be intuitive. The smaller shield idea that's been discussed is an example of this. Press a button to lift a shield and use the control stick to move the stick to block attacks. It's simple in concept, very easy to understand, and very indepth.

Huh? I'm talking about how the easy-to-use characters almost always start out being "super top tier broken omg" at the beginning, then end up bad as the game evolves.

See also: CS:EX Tager.

 

[Vkrm]

Im most excited about all the new faces at tourneys and smash fests. Really sick of playing with the same 5 guys who aren't really intrested in improving. That's a lie, actually looking forward to ssb4 vs brawl debates.

 

[Soft Serve]

If ssb4 vs brawl debates are at all similar to melee brawl ones, you'll get to look forward to four+ years of arguments based on anecdotes, wrong information, and opinions.

And a lot of youtube arguments.

 

[Vkrm]

Smash 4 Players will be all like "were you expecting brawl 2.0?" Brawlers will get all buthurt, and I will be very pleased. That argument always infuriated me.

 

[Kirbunny431]

Yes, we know. You said practically the exact same thing two pages ago.

 

[MR. K]

In Brawl, you can cancel hitstun after 16 frames with an air dodge or aerial attack. This is where the misconception that Brawl has "less" hitstun than Melee comes from. To see the actual length of hitstun, jump out of it as soon as possible.

to be fair though, its not completely inaccurate to say brawl has less hitstun if you can cancel the hitstun.


after all it makes it so your not...well..."stunned" anymore.



sure it has to be with an aerial or air dodge, but regardless its still getting your character faster out of the hitstun of an opponents attack.

 

[Morin0]

Something I'm actually really looking forward to more than anything is that we can now have all players playing the same game. No debate about which game is better. Imagine that? Brawl and Melee players playing the same game without almost killing each other. That means that a lot of communities will revive or even start.

 

[MR. K]

Something I'm actually really looking forward to more than anything is that we can now have all players playing the same game. No debate about which game is better. Imagine that? Brawl and Melee players playing the same game without almost killing each other. That means that a lot of communities will revive or even start.

actually the opposite is gonna happen.

people are still gonna be playing brawl or melee, but now we'll have smash4 in the mix, where folks will be debating on what it did wrong compared to the other 2.

the only thing that might happen, is depending on whether or not smash4 actively tries to get rid of the things that most folks had a problem with in brawl(tripping, poor character balance, etc.) melee players might be more accepting of smash4 than they were of brawl.


But even then i highly doubt everyone will welcome 4 with open arms nor will they not continue to argue which game is better.

 

[Vkrm]

All my favorite nintendo characters are already in there. I guess I'm really most exited to play the the wiiu and see
The added features improve my gaming experience. If demise makes it In I'll main him regardless of tier. That is unless tingle joins the fight.

 

[Vkrm]

people are still gonna be playing brawl or melee, but now we'll have smash4 in the mix, where folks will be debating on what it did wrong compared to the other 2.

There aren't too many people complaining about what melee did wrong compaired to smash 64. Im Just saying....

 

[Morin0]

actually the opposite is gonna happen.

people are still gonna be playing brawl or melee, but now we'll have smash4 in the mix, where folks will be debating on what it did wrong compared to the other 2.

the only thing that might happen, is depending on whether or not smash4 actively tries to get rid of the things that most folks had a problem with in brawl(tripping, poor character balance, etc.) melee players might be more accepting of smash4 than they were of brawl.


But even then i highly doubt everyone will welcome 4 with open arms nor will they not continue to argue which game is better.

Well, that's kind of expected once the hype dies down. If you recall in 2008 when Brawl came out, Melee players played Brawl. After playing for an extended amount of time, some decided they didn't like it, so they sticked to Melee. What I meant was that at least in the beginning, when the game is all hyped up after being released, everyone will be playing it regardless if they're diehard Melee fans. But yeah, some will still not like it and will stick to Melee. I wonder if the same phenomenon will happen with Brawl players, lol.

"This game blows. I'm sticking to Brawl"

 

[MR. K]

Well, that's kind of expected once the hype dies down. If you recall in 2008 when Brawl came out, Melee players played Brawl. After playing for an extended amount of time, some decided they didn't like it, so they sticked to Melee. What I meant was that at least in the beginning, when the game is all hyped up after being released, everyone will be playing it regardless if they're diehard Melee fans. But yeah, some will still not like it and will stick to Melee. I wonder if the same phenomenon will happen with Brawl players, lol.

"This game blows. I'm sticking to Brawl"

tbh i think most melee fans in 08 when brawl was first released, stopped playing it relatively quickly, aside from the obvious *facepalm* known as tripping, the majority of the players still hated all the other drastic changes to physics right from the get go.


I think it was Gimpyfish here at SWF who actually wrote up a huge detailed post about all the things he saw changed, how shallow the game was compared to melee, etc. all within the first week of it being released.

and almost all other Melee players agreed with him and by that point had already abandoned the game in favor of melee again.

i think more melee players actually gave brawl a chance around 09 after the initial shock and disappointment when they first played it originally, but even then most still found they didn't like it near as much as melee, but least many more seemed more willing to give it a chance by then.

 

[Big-Cat]

Huh? I'm talking about how the easy-to-use characters almost always start out being "super top tier broken omg" at the beginning, then end up bad as the game evolves.

See also: CS:EX Tager.

Wouldn't that apply to Tager in every BB game? And my mistake, I misinterpreted what you said.

 

[Jockmaster]

I'm excited for Sakurai to get my hopes up then disappoint me even more than he did with Brawl

 

[srk99]

I'm excited for Slippy to be the New Starfox Character they add :D

 

[Kink-Link5]

Wouldn't that apply to Tager in every BB game? And my mistake, I misinterpreted what you said.

I guess so. Ex struck me particularly as players raving about a "Finally A-Tier Tager."

I'm excited for Sakurai to get my hopes up then disappoint me even more than he did with Brawl

This is why you have to do the "Expect absolutely nothing that isn't confirmed" route.

Brawl being such a drastic departure from Melee was honestly just unfathomable for myself and many others I've spoken with. With so much emphasis being put on the additions to the game, the very concept that there would be many vital aspects of the game removed was just such a blindsiding move.

Right now I have my expectations at about "Slightly worse than Brawl," which is still giving quite a bit of room for disappointment, unfortunately.

 

[ShadowSmasher98]

The funny part is, when i played SSBM and translated to SSBB, I didn't even notice a speed difference... I didn't even know about the AT's (wavedash, moonwalk, etc.)... I'm more of a casual guy...

I hope SSB4 is a mix of both...

SSBM: Cool stages, better roster (Dr. Mario, mah boi), Challenger Approaching screen, No tripping, everyone had their own target test level.

SSBB: Some cool stages, Wi-Fi, etc.

Can't think of much things that SSBB has that Melee doesn't... but both are good :3

And I wish I still had Melee, I miss Dr. Mario