Q&A "What if Zelda was a girl?" : Zelda Q&A COME HERE FIRST WITH YOUR ZELDA QUESTIONS.

[MadCanard]

With all the bidou hype lately has anybody tried it out with Zelda to see what sort of possibilities open up?

 

[Kealmir]

With all the bidou hype lately has anybody tried it out with Zelda to see what sort of possibilities open up?

She doesn't get too much out of pivots, but the control scheme is worth using cause it allows some crazy usage of her specials.

like this for example,

 

[marekage]

hi everyone, i repost the same question from another thread (because i din't post on the good thread).
What is the earliest kill move from farore's wind (with or without rage and starting on ground) ? because i kill an opponent at 54% (or 41% at the start of the move).

and also i was fighting against a really great player who plays with duck hunt and greninja. I lost all my matches because i din't find any solution against these characters (against greninja i barely beat him, but duck hunt was impossible because my opponent just spacing and spamming rightly all his moves or grab me at the right moment).

someone have some clue against these characters (mostly duck hunt) ?

 

[Zylach]

hi everyone, i repost the same question from another thread (because i din't post on the good thread).
What is the earliest kill move from farore's wind (with or without rage and starting on ground) ? because i kill an opponent at 54% (or 41% at the start of the move).

and also i was fighting against a really great player who plays with duck hunt and greninja. I lost all my matches because i din't find any solution against these characters (against greninja i barely beat him, but duck hunt was impossible because my opponent just spacing and spamming rightly all his moves or grab me at the right moment).

someone have some clue against these characters (mostly duck hunt) ?

If you're asking about how early FW can kill when you use the elevator, then we can actually kill some people as early as 0% with it if we have max rage on top of some other factors like low ceilings, bad DI on the opponent's part, and any special circumstances that increase our KB against them such as Shulk's smash Monado. Zelda's elevator combo can be crazy lol.

On the topic of MU's, I'll start with Greninja. Greninja can actually be really difficult for Zelda to face because he's difficult to punish and his combo game is really strong. Since Zelda is combo food, he can get a lot of free shenanigans on us if he comfirms. That said, with frame 5 intangibility on our Nayru's Love, we can possibly get out of his many frame traps as long as he doesn't bait Nayru's and punish that. His projectile is probably one of the best in the game in terms of pressure. It's nearly impossible for Zelda to punish it if the Greninja spaces himself properly and we can't snipe him because the endlag on it is too low so he'll be able to just hold shield and punish our snipe.

Really, Zelda's best option is to take advantage of his linear neutral game. Greninja will almost always approach via the air unless he wants a grab and his aerials can be exploited by our nair in particular (Or Nayru's Love if he overcommits but that should only be used if you need the i-frames to protect you). His fair and nair have some startup that we can catch before they come out and his bair can be airdodged through and punished right out of the airdodge. Use short hop airdodging liberally against Greinja because he usually commits pretty hard to his approaches and has trouble stuffing a SHAD if you space it properly (make sure it doesn't end when you're directly above him because his usmash will catch you and hurt a lot). If he's projectile spamming you, just be patient, walk towards him, and powershield them. Make sure to practice recognizing when and how to punish him if he wants to run up and grab you when you commit to shielding his shurikens. Dtilt is usually your best tool for denying his grab attempt. That and Nayru's Love though NL is a longer time commitment and is, therefore, not as safe.

As for DH, I don't actually have a lot of experience against this little guy so I'd ask some of our other Zelda players to offer advice here. Personally, I have a notable weakness to getting camped so I feel like any advice I offer here might be less helpful than others that don't have as many problems against this playstyle.

Hopefully, that helped a little. Feel free to ask for further clarification and such.

Cheers!

 

[marekage]

many thanks for your answer Zylach.

I just don't understand the SHAD part (it is when greninja use his shadow to disapear and give a kick ?)

he was just camping and throwing neutral B to stop my moves and grab me when i was too close. it is really a game of patience.
i got salty and tilted because when i was more confident and having the advantage in stock or damage, he just found a solution to kill me and win the games (dammit that upsmash kills me so much time).

I din't use dtilt that much i will use it more (but it get also blocked or grabed when you want to do it twice)


For DH, it was worse than greninja and i have no clue how to approach him. because when you shield or roll from his neutral B, he waits and grab you. And it was also really hard to go back on stage or grabing the ledge because he had control of it.

 

[Zylach]

many thanks for your answer Zylach.

I just don't understand the SHAD part (it is when greninja use his shadow to disapear and give a kick ?)

he was just camping and throwing neutral B to stop my moves and grab me when i was too close. it is really a game of patience.
i got salty and tilted because when i was more confident and having the advantage in stock or damage, he just found a solution to kill me and win the games (dammit that upsmash kills me so much time).

I din't use dtilt that much i will use it more (but it get also blocked or grabed when you want to do it twice)


For DH, it was worse than greninja and i have no clue how to approach him. because when you shield or roll from his neutral B, he waits and grab you. And it was also really hard to go back on stage or grabing the ledge because he had control of it.

SHAD is a short hop air dodge. Basically, you just input a short hop and hit the R or L button (or whatever button you have shield assigned to) as soon as you input the jump. That'll allow you to airdodge through a majority of the short hop meaning you'll have I-frames while you're moving. Zelda really benefits from this because she has several options as soon as the airdodge is finished (unlike heavier characters that land with the airdodge landing lag because they fall too fast). Zelda can input a bair, nair, or Nayru's Love (Or even FW if you're feeling risky) before she hits the ground which can be a good tool for faking out opponents and getting through hitbox walls. Against Greninja specifically, having I-frames while mobile allows you to keep up with him (since Zelda's run speed is so slow but her air speed is pretty good) and stay safe while doing it. She can get through his laggier aerials without putting herself in danger and punish his aerials with a bair for example since she has the aerial frame data to immediately follow up after her air dodge finishes.

As for DH, his general campiness make him really difficult for Zelda to get in on since her options for approaching are slim and risky. Unfortunately, she doesn't have the run speed to get in on him before his projectiles become a problem (or quickly weave between his projectiles like the fastest characters can do) so she really has to play more patiently than the DH player. DH is one of those characters you can use FW to snipe as he's throwing projectiles out as long as you're quick to react. I think his most punishable projectile is his gunman down-B. I feel like this is your best bet for getting in on him since he'll be throwing out his projectiles as often as possible allowing you plenty of opportunities to punish him for them.

 

[Rickster]

About Duck Hunt...I find aiming for the can with Din's to be a good way to screw with his can tricks and camping. Of course, you need to make sure you're far enough away to not be punished. It's one of the few niche uses for Din's. You can do this with DDD's Gordos too.

 

[KlicKlac]

Have any of you found any success in using Dsmash in edgeguarding? Dsmash sends opponents at such a low horizontal angle that I can imagine it would immediately gimp so many opponents with lousy recoveries. I wonder if Dsmash is useful against recoveries that don't snap to the ledge like Cloud or Little Mac's UpB.

I also wonder if Dsmash can stop Side B recoveries.

My impression on Dsmash was that Dtilt was always the better choice since it goes further below the stage, but perhaps Dsmash is also useful.

 

[Zylach]

Have any of you found any success in using Dsmash in edgeguarding? Dsmash sends opponents at such a low horizontal angle that I can imagine it would immediately gimp so many opponents with lousy recoveries. I wonder if Dsmash is useful against recoveries that don't snap to the ledge like Cloud or Little Mac's UpB.

I also wonder if Dsmash can stop Side B recoveries.

My impression on Dsmash was that Dtilt was always the better choice since it goes further below the stage, but perhaps Dsmash is also useful.

Dsmash can be useful. It can hit opponents hanging on the ledge so, if your opponent is silly and hangs on past their ledge invincibility, then a dsmash will finish them 9 times out of 10. That said, dtilt is still the better choice when you're looking to catch a ledge snap because it's out for 6 frames as opposed to 2 like both sides of dsmash are. Dsmash can do a lot of work against characters that don't snap like you mention. Just be careful because it's not disjointed so you'll almost always end up trading or losing if you time it wrong especially against Cloud because of the disjoint on his Climhazzard.

 

[KlicKlac]

Dsmash can be useful. It can hit opponents hanging on the ledge so, if your opponent is silly and hangs on past their ledge invincibility, then a dsmash will finish them 9 times out of 10. That said, dtilt is still the better choice when you're looking to catch a ledge snap because it's out for 6 frames as opposed to 2 like both sides of dsmash are. Dsmash can do a lot of work against characters that don't snap like you mention. Just be careful because it's not disjointed so you'll almost always end up trading or losing if you time it wrong especially against Cloud because of the disjoint on his Climhazzard.

Yeah, I see that dtilt lasts longer than dsmash. I was thinking about characters like captain falcon or corrin with subpar recoveries, and well-timed dsmash could quickly hit them too deep and end their stock right there. I never tried since I haven't had too much success with dsmash besides to punish ledge re-grabs, but I could imagine how useful dsmash could be in certain matchups.

 

[Kealmir]

Down Smash is really good for that 1 frame ledge grab window, but unfortunately it has pretty weak frame data from my experience. It's a shame it has such limited use, its got a really useful Knock back angle.

 

[KlicKlac]

Down Smash is really good for that 1 frame ledge grab window, but unfortunately it has pretty weak frame data from my experience. It's a shame it has such limited use, its got a really useful Knock back angle.

Yeah, I agree. Dsmash has an incredibly useful knockback angle, but I haven't found too much use for the move. I usually find dtilt better as a combo starter.

 

[Dante777]

How do I deal with players who throw out aerials or attacks when I'm in the air? I always seems to get beaten by aerials that outrange nair and I get punished when approaching aerially. This causes me to overuse naryu's as an aerial approach which incredibly predictable and punishable and fairly low reward if I land it.

When the opponent shields my aerial approaches that's great because I can empty hop into a grab, do a delayed naryu's or something else. At least I have some type of option. However, when the opponent throws out any sort of attack I don't know what to do.

I played a ZSS that pretty much only did flipkick and it was embarrassing how often I was killed by it. I knew it was coming and I still was rarely able to punish it. I was getting destroyed by a Ganondorf's aerials when I was grounded and when I was approaching. When I shielded it didn't seem like I was able to punish as often as I hoped. Characters like Corrin and characters with zairs also give me trouble, anyone with reach basically.

 

[LoFro]

Hello fellow Zelda mains,

I've been playing some offline sets with a friend and changing my Naryu's Love timings by using it as a short-hop instant air. is this a practical application? Are there any practical applications for this? (Haven't seen any top Zelda's using it)

Thanks in advance!

SJ

 

[BJN39]

LoFro I wanted to let you know I've merged your thread/question into the Zelda Q&A thread because the destination thread is meant for Zelda-related questions, and your question would be better asked here!

 

[LoFro]

LoFro I wanted to let you know I've merged your thread/question into the Zelda Q&A thread because the destination thread is meant for Zelda-related questions, and your question would be better asked here!

Thanks, it was 2 am here,I should've been more vigilant. :D

 

[Meru.]

What beats Fox's SideB?

 

[BJN39]

What beats Fox's SideB?

Probably not much :/

Nayru's has a window of invincibility as well as a hitbox that actually covers a large window (not like Usmash which is a looping 1F hitbox with 2F between each) but it is slower to hit and very slow to end. I bet if he went through it we'd get punished lol.

Utilt and Dtilt have "meaty" hitboxes that last long, but both rely on good placement. Utilt you probably would have to attempt to do back-towards Fox, and Dtilt might only work if you can actually hit with the hitbox before your hurtbox (kind of a low hitbox)

Phantom does fun things on occasion, but the wind hitbox is out on like frame 20 no charge, and the real hitbox appears even later, so it's really slow. Even then he might just ghost past it.

I could see Fsmash sometimes working, but its duration is shorter and choppier than other choices, and it's even slower than Nayru. Still, it has a good hitbox to combat if he tries to Phantasm through you.

--

If NAir used a constant hitbox and not a "flickering hitbox" (has hitboxless holes between hits) then her NAir could be incredible at intercepting phantasm. Heck it would probably do several things better if it used the "rehit rate" property.

 

[Meru.]

Probably not much :/

Nayru's has a window of invincibility as well as a hitbox that actually covers a large window (not like Usmash which is a looping 1F hitbox with 2F between each) but it is slower to hit and very slow to end. I bet if he went through it we'd get punished lol.

Utilt and Dtilt have "meaty" hitboxes that last long, but both rely on good placement. Utilt you probably would have to attempt to do back-towards Fox, and Dtilt might only work if you can actually hit with the hitbox before your hurtbox (kind of a low hitbox)

Phantom does fun things on occasion, but the wind hitbox is out on like frame 20 no charge, and the real hitbox appears even later, so it's really slow. Even then he might just ghost past it.

I could see Fsmash sometimes working, but its duration is shorter and choppier than other choices, and it's even slower than Nayru. Still, it has a good hitbox to combat if he tries to Phantasm through you.

--

If NAir used a constant hitbox and not a "flickering hitbox" (has hitboxless holes between hits) then her NAir could be incredible at intercepting phantasm. Heck it would probably do several things better if it used the "rehit rate" property.

I haven't tried Nayru's yet, I guess I'll try that despite the start-up and see how it goes with the lag. Perhaps I should also try doing a backwards Utilt, as it has pretty good reward too (combos into Uair at some percents). They are my only hope since literally the only other option I can think of that might be viable are lightning kicks... yeah.

Fsmash is actually not that hard to time despite the start-up, but it trades with him which is a pretty bad trade since you'll hit him with the first hit only, and not with the final hit you want to hit him with. This makes it a bad option. Dtilt and Dsmash hit too low so it doesn't hit. Jab has the same problem as Nair (hitboxless holes) and is slow so it's not reliable in the slightest. Ftilt doesn't stay out long enough and is not particularly fast either. Usmash I haven't tried but it likely has both the problems of Dtilt/Dsmash (hitbox placement is not ideal) and Nair/Jab (hitboxless holes), so it's likely not a good option.

Man this is so much easier with Peach lol.

 

[Lavani]

Nayru's is the reliable option.

Fsmash would be a lot better if it used a rehit rate instead of looping hitboxes that let Fox trade with it half the time. It's probably still worth going for just because it's the option that can get him killed though...I'd say getting in the habit of releasing it earlier so if he trades it's with the last hit might be the better idea.

Dash attack seems fairly reliable and is better than fsmash for trading. nvm DA can just straight-up lose to it if your spacing's bad, that's awkward

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Dair is likely best one against illusion. At that point it's timing.

Question, what's the timing for a JC FW? Like.....order of inputs to cancel it? Never really did it before lol.

 

[Oriana]

Does Zelda can wavedash with efficience?

 

[BJN39]

Does Zelda can wavedash with efficience?

She can't wavedash at all in smash 4 and I can't figure out why! :((((((((((

don't troll here I will follow you on twitter

 

[Oriana]

Oh...Thanks

 

[Rickster]

Dair is likely best one against illusion. At that point it's timing.

Question, what's the timing for a JC FW? Like.....order of inputs to cancel it? Never really did it before lol.

You just jump normally, then cancel the "jumpsquat" animation with FW. So it's just Jump>FW really fast.

The input window for FW is 6 frames, since that's how long Zelda's jumpsquat is. The faster you can do it the better.

 

[BJN39]

You just jump normally, then cancel the "jumpsquat" animation with FW. So it's just Jump>FW really fast.

The input window for FW is 6 frames, since that's how long Zelda's jumpsquat is. The faster you can do it the better.

Duly note that the later you can cancel JS out of a dash the longer the slide will be! That is just because of the dash jumpsquat's slide ofc

 

[Rickster]

Duly note that the later you can cancel JS out of a dash the longer the slide will be!

Oh really? I actually didn't know that. Thanks gorl.

That could have some interesting applications...

 

[BJN39]

It's kind of like Brawl DACUS, or a glide toss, where timing it right her's different distances. I know that this can be very effective in increasing the range of effect for Usmash and Elevator, if you spend a couple of frames on the jumpsquat. It's not really a difficult thing, I think it's actually more natural not to get instant JC attacks anyways.

Actually, as mentioned in Izaw's Art of Zelda, JC slide can allow her to attempt to cover multiple ledge options. If only it used rehit rates, because it's just a bunch of stinkin' 1F hitboxes. I've legit missed airdodge reads because it didn't have its hitbox out at the right time.

 

[KlicKlac]

People have talked about the sonic matchup again and again, but I still have trouble against a patient sonic player.

What should zelda do in the neutral against sonic? I usually end up sitting in shield while sonic spin dashes everywhere.

And what should zelda do in an advantage state against sonic (such as when sonic is in the air)?

And how can we catch sonic and land a kill? I struggle at landing kills on a good sonic.

 

[riels89]

So I really like zelda but i have concerns about her viability. I was wondering at what level of play is she viable as a secondary?

 

[Squii The Fish]

^^^^Play who you want to play.

I AM LAZY ATM HOW GOOD IS ZELDA'S STEP DASH

 

[DinsFireIsOP]

Hi girls,

It's been a while I haven't posted here. I hope you"re all doing well.

I haven't played Smash for a while. So, it looks like I forgot how you do this trick where after down-tilting your opponent, you slide a little bit so your Up + B connects. Is there anyone who could explain how it's done? Thanks^^

 

[Rickster]

Hi girls,

It's been a while I haven't posted here. I hope you"re all doing well.

I haven't played Smash for a while. So, it looks like I forgot how you do this trick where after down-tilting your opponent, you slide a little bit so your Up + B connects. Is there anyone who could explain how it's done? Thanks^^

Sounds like you're talking about a jump cancelled UpB.

Dash, jump, and during the 6 frames of jumpsquat, upB and you should slide a bit.

 

[luke_atyeo]

hey dudes, I'm trying to collect a bunch of quick easy info graphics on essential character knowledge to make a quick reference guide for commentators (we all hate it when a commentator says something that is wrong)
This shulk thing here is an example of the kinda stuff I am looking for

I'm going around to all the character boards and it'll be a little messy for me to try and check them all, so if you have any cool things like that, or just some useful info that I could turn into a similar picture, please send me a message. Cheers lads.

 

[Lord Renning]

Could someone make a GIF of Zelda's step-dash, and does it benefit her in any way?

Which if any of Zelda's moves carry momentum?

 

[Squii The Fish]

it dosent cover that much ground but step dash apparently covers that gross turn-around- skid billshazz so its good in my book. So if you mix it in with that foxtrot and perfect pivot jab shizz you would at least have quite a few competent tools under your belt.

My recording capabilities and tech skill have been garbage lately so I will see what I can do for yea no promises on anything

Spoiler

if any cool cats wanna show me up and post the actual graphic before me just do it because im lazy and might not actually do it

 

[spellthief]

that sounds great! I can only pull off perfect extended dashdance pivots in my foxtrots sometimes. and i love to foxtrot so anything with that is fun.

 

[Banjobeast158]

Hello, I have been playing some Zelda recently! Was wondering if anyone could point me to some good kill set-ups besides down throw to up-air(that's all I know). Any guidance would be appreciated, thanks!

 

[KlicKlac]

Hello, I have been playing some Zelda recently! Was wondering if anyone could point me to some good kill set-ups besides down throw to up-air(that's all I know). Any guidance would be appreciated, thanks!

An even easier kill setup is dtilt to upair (kills roughly around 85-95%). You could try rolling behind your opponent and doing dtilt to fish for a kill. Also, the first hit of nair pops the opponent up so you can follow up with an upsmash or the upB elevator. If you fast fall a nair, you can drag an opponent down with you, and easily followup up with the upB elevator, upsmash, or dtilt into upair.

Also, you could do dtilt into fair/bair near the ledge.

 

[Char Seasalina]

Zelda is officially getting a new amiibo! My question is, why didn't they call that Zelda amiibo "Toon Zelda" instead?