What do you hate in Smash?

[Lola Luftnagle]

's down smash and I am so glad they nerfed this **** since Brawl. I swear, many players, from casual to competitive, believe this move in Melee is God...

 

[KirinKQP]

My gripe is mainly for Melee:

- Cpt. Falcon and Ganondorf not be able to cling to the ledge immediately when using their Up B. They just do that flip for a bit.

- Cpt. Falcon and Ganon not being able to use side B as a recovery to grab ledge. Dunking also puts you in special fall.

- How small Yoshi's Story is; Puff dies at 40 from a lot of things off the top.

- Wobbling in general. An infinite from a grab is so stupid and is nothing more than a crutch for ICs. It should at least be limited of how many times a match you can wobble.

- Most of the low tiers are unviable and are only used as troll characters half of the time.

- Peach's down smash hitbox disaster.

- Yoshi not having the ability to jump out of shield, having to have not his head but arms touch the ledge for him to grab the ledge. Not to mention his weird Z-axis grab.

- Can't use C-stick in training mode without a mod like 20XX.

 

[MarioMeteor]

My gripe is mainly for Melee:

- Cpt. Falcon and Ganondorf not be able to cling to the ledge immediately when using their Up B.

- Cpt. Falcon qnd Ganon not being able to use side B as a recovery to grab ledge. Dunking also puts you in special fall.

- How small Yoshi's Story is, Puff dies at 30 from everything Fox does.

- Wobbling. An infinite from a grab is so stupid and is nothing more than a crutch for ICs. They donct have a lot going for them at the top level of play.

- Most low tiers are unviable and are only used as troll characters half of the time.

- Peach's down smash hitbox disaster.

- Yoshi not having the ability to jump out of shield, having to have not his head but arms touch the ledge for him to grab if recovering from below the stage and his weird Z-axis grab.

- Can't use C-stick in training mode without a mod like 20XX.

You're taking about things wrong with Melee and you don't mention this?

I swear it gets worse every time I look at it.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

What tends to bother me is that even though Giga Bowser is the biggest playable character, his attack power is inferior to that of a fighter who acquires a Super Mushroom.

In Smash 3DS / Wii U, a 1.7x-size Bowser can 1-hit KO even a normal-sized Bowser with a fully charged f-smash. Giga Bowser can't even 1-hit KO a Jigglypuff with his f-smash.

Combine the underwhelming attack power with an 8 second time limit, and you'd be lucky to make even one KO with Giga Bowser.

In fact, the following video from Brawl can just feel depressing to see for a Final Smash fighter who outsizes everyone.

I was so through with seeing Giga Bowser be so underwhelming that I had to modify his attacks to be much more efficient, and even make KOs more easily. With my own adjustments, Giga Bowser becomes powerful enough to take on anyone who acquires a Super Mushroom, and even KO them below 200% with certain attacks.

• Smash Wii U: http://gamebanana.com/gamefiles/5244
• Brawl: http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=213912
• Script Data (Smash Wii U): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q3kZpMvRyV4Nm6LDhuqvaDeN8UZkzSucG5fTN70xRNo/edit?usp=sharing
• Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j0NIdzFGCHZWWy9kNfUEZaDk6TOY6ra-6qPzxhsmFQo/edit?usp=sharing

As for one example of my adjustments in Smash Wii U...

Unedited, Giga Bowser's f-smash deals up to 24% damage uncharged with the head, and doesn't exactly have the greatest knockback scaling (45 BKB + 72 KBG). However, my own edit increases the damage output for the head to 36%, and its knockback scaling is stronger as well (32 BKB + 112 KBG), enabling it to 1-hit KO Bowser on an Omega Form stage upon being fully charged.

I even went as far as to extend the transformation duration to 1200 frames (20 seconds), though some may find that to be overkill.

 

[Diddy Kong]

What I mostly hate is some choices regarding characters, and a lot feels forced and promotional. Or money / business related. At least for Smash Wii U & 3DS. It's got a huge cast, but feels a lot out of touch of earlier Smash games.

Some character balance is pretty damn bad to. And especially the way Zelda and Sheik are still balanced in a way to match each other's weaknesss out. Except Zelda gets all the weaknesses and Sheik is still one of the best characters.

Hate how Ganondorf's moveset is still not feeling right. Compare him to many of the newcomers with unique move sets and how much effort they'd spend in that. Sheik again got a lot of new moves, while Ganondorf's hasn't changed since Brawl. If they could just fix his Neutral Air, Smash attacks and maybe Neutral B that would be awesome.

I also hate how balance screws characters over who where previously good characters. For example Samus and Jigglypuff. Both good in Melee, so why remain bottom tierish characters two games in a row? Even goes for Ganondorf yet again.

Still feel the ballot was a fraud.

In Melee, low tiers cannot really expect to win. Unless a massive skill difference. Fox in NTSC is also way too strong. PAL is best Melee, yet remains unbalanced.

Wobbling was the worst, broken mechanic ever in Smash, and am actually glad the Ice Climbers where cut. If Meta Knight didn't **** over Brawl hard enough, these wobbling eskimos killed everything that was left. King Dedede's chain grab was also lame, and stuff as that really should've been patched out as soon as the could.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

I shall make this short: Jungle Hijinx. I don't know about y'all sugar pies but I ain't comfortable fighting 500 feet in the background.

 

[UsedNapkin]

I hate people in for glory who just roll and roll and roll and then smash attack. It's just bad. People really need to stop. It's so easy to predict.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

Right...I have a couple more gripes about Brawl: 1) that damn Manaphy causing much confusion and 2) the fact that the same Pokèmon can appear twice or thrice in a row from a Pokèball. It really doesn't help to throw four of these only for Goldeen and Wobbuffet to come out every single one of them.

 

[Tino]

People complaining about certain characters like the clones being a "waste of a character slot" and some stupid **** like that.

For Smash in general, I don't like that Snake and Wolf were left out from Sm4sh.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

I could do this all night...I hate how in Brawl crouch cancelling no longer reduced knockback. And did I mention that I despise the Mario Bros. stage as well as scrolling stages in general?

 

[Bassoonist]

Ridiculous character additions like Dark Pit and Dr Mario, they should be alternate costumes. I had completely forgotten that Dr. Mario was a thing in Smash 4 until a couple of days ago and I was just like "Wait, what? Really?" The fact that characters like Toon Link and Ganondorf have potential for unique movesets but they keep coming back with the Link and Captain Falcon moveset.

 

[Mr Andersmith the 2nd]

General

• Ganondorf being a Captain Falcon clone
• Clones in general
• Unique characters being cut and clones remaining

Smash 64

• Nintendo having the audacity to underpower the mighty Luigi

Melee

• How horrendously unbalanced it was (Yet despite that it's still my favourite Smash)

Brawl

• Tripping, just, tripping.
• The dark, brooding range of colours. This isn't a Christopher Nolan film Nintendo.

Smash 4

• Hadouken spammers.
• Orbital Gate Assault, in my opinion the worst stage in any Smash, just bring back Venom!
• Cloud. (I'm a Mewtwo main so I have to hate him)

 

[mariogamer]

Rage? not sur about it... hey wait what's this?

Also, clone doesn't mather..... wait is dr mario a luigi clone??? Luigi is the only perfect one....

 

[MarioMeteor]

It's recently come to my attention how... not good Smash 4's netcode is. It'd be nice if that was fixed.

• Hadouken spammers.

I think you have this confused with Street Fighter V. Hadouken is arguably one of the worst projectiles in the game.

 

[Mr Andersmith the 2nd]

I think you have this confused with Street Fighter V. Hadouken is arguably one of the worst projectiles in the game.

Oh I agree, without a doubt. But more or less every Ryu I have seen online has just spammed and spammed it, over and over. Sometimes they just stand in one place no matter what you do. It could just be me having bad luck with online opponents.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

The inability to edit the starting stamina in Melee.

 

[Hax$Fanboy-CheeseSteak]

I hate how there's another version of melee. That is not what I want. What I want is my f****** arcade stick for smash. I come from the fighting game community. They have arcade sticks it is the normal over there. I thought Hax$ was getting ready to mass-market his creation. Instead he gave us a new game. That is not what I wanted melee does not have to change it is a perfect game. All I want is Pokemon banned in normal melee. Hope Armada plays the real version of melee and not what Hax has just created

I could do this all night...I hate how in Brawl crouch cancelling no longer reduced knockback. And did I mention that I despise the Mario Bros. stage as well as scrolling stages in general?

What I hate is when the melee community starts complaining about mods in general. This entire Community has mods on their controllers I don't. Personally I don't think they're fare... is the only reason I'm not doing better is because I don't have notches on my controller? Of course it isn't. I just need my arcade stick and I will stop complaining

 

[.Marik]

idk

items, definitely. they were a mistake. i dislike how 64 only uses DL, bawrl metaknight is stupid, 10 frames of buffering in brawl or whatever is stupid, and all the clones in s4 is just lol

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

After doing some tests, I can pretty much say that I don't like how Whirling Fortress only deals up to 2 hits in Melee and Brawl. If both hits get blocked, Bowser is literally vulnerable to punishment by his opponents. It's not safe to use against shields either, as fighters can shield-grab Bowser immediately after blocking the two hits.

It's definitely good knowing that Smash 3DS / Wii U greatly fixed up Bowser's Whirling Fortress; it's now able to deal up to 8 hits on the ground, making it safer to use against shields, and harder for opponents to punish.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

I'm miffed that 's new back air has an even worse landing recovery than his Brawl back-air.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'm miffed that 's new back air has an even worse landing recovery than his Brawl back-air.

It should be noted that Bowser's new b-air deals up to 19% damage. Compare that to Brawl Bowser's b-air, which only deals up to 15% damage.

The damage difference alone can pretty much explain why Bowser's new b-air has more landing lag. And the difference becomes even more notable once knockback is taken into account, since if Bowser acquires a Super Mushroom, his new b-air easily KOs Mario at around 50% damage while on the center of any Omega Form stage. Brawl Bowser's b-air KOs Mario far later than that, not just because it's less damaging, but its knockback growth is also weaker than that of the new b-air.

The only things that the old b-air wins at are landing lag and base knockback, but the latter starts to become irrelevant once the damage starts building up.

 

[LuffyLink]

still being a Semi Clone. Don't get me wrong, I love playing Ganondorf the way he currently is, but I really want him to get a moveset more faithful to the Zelda series. Also I hate how ugly he looks in Smash 4 (especially the Wii U version).

being too similar to . I know that he was made at the last moment alongside and but at least the latters, especially Dr. Mario, have several different properties making their moveset feel a bit more different. Dark Pit only has a few moves with different properties, other than those, he's a carbon copy of Pit (Well he technically has always been one but they still could've done more to make him feel more différent).

Wobbling. I often watch competitive Melee, and I think Wobbling is such a cheap way to win matches, and several Ice Climbers mains keep abusing it.

Like many other people, Random Tripping in Brawl.

I love Smash 4, but Wii U version has the Worst modes in the series. Melee and Brawl had amazing modes like the Subspace Emissary and the Adventure mode, or Break the target. Smash for 3ds has Smash Run, which is pretty good as well. But Smash for Wii U has a horrible Classic mode, a Mario Party mode nobody asked for, a worse Tournament mode and an awful replacement for Break the Target.

The Great Cave Offensive is one of the, if not the Worst stage in the series.

's moveset not representing the "Toon" Zelda games. Toon Link had so much potential for an unique moveset inspired from the Wind Waker and the other games he appeared in.

How the Metroid and Donkey Kong series have been represented in Smash 4 compared to Fire Emblem.

There might be more but I can't think of anything else at the moment.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

Right...I dislike that 's d-air and 's knee can no longer be auto-cancelled from a short hop.

 

[GeflGabe]

I hate how certain low tiers such as ( etc.) are neglected over and over and never buffed in any patch. (Smash4)

I hate Marths stupid grab range.

You're taking about things wrong with Melee and you don't mention this?

 

[MarioMeteor]

I absolutely despise how losing in Classic Mode boots you back 0.5 levels. No, Sakurai, I don't want to play on 7.5, did I pick 7.5?

I hate how certain low tiers such as ( etc.) are neglected over and over and never buffed in any patch. (Smash4)

The MIis have actually been buffed a lot, but they're still going to be ****ty as long as custom moves are banned, because the characters are balanced around them.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

• Metal Mario, Polygon Battlefield, and Master Hand's stage cannot be used in multipayer mode (original Smash only).
• Sm4sh's minigame with the credits. The music for the credits sounds lovely but is locked behind a Golden Hammer-proof challenge and I can never get 100%. Sakurai sucks for that.
• Those damn Redeads in Underground Maze.
• Tabuu's Rings of Death which are impossible to avoid.
• Did I mention the character-unlock battles already? I should not have to fight a CPU to unlock them.

 

[MarioMeteor]

• Tabuu's Rings of Death which are impossible to avoid.

There's actually a rhythm to dodging those, and it's not that hard once you learn the pattern. If you sidestep the waves to the rhythm "dodge, dodge, and dodge," you'll avoid the Off Waves. That's how I do it, at least.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

On the subject of grab ranges, I don't exactly like how Mewtwo's grab range is short in Smash 3DS / Wii U. I did modify the grab range to be larger, and as a result of my change, Mewtwo can grab Rosalina at a range that she's unable to grab Mewtwo at.

There's actually a rhythm to dodging those, and it's not that hard once you learn the pattern. If you sidestep the waves to the rhythm "dodge, dodge, and dodge," you'll avoid the Off Waves. That's how I do it, at least.

To add to this, having to dodge the Off-Waves is practically mandatory in order to complete the harder difficulties of Boss Battles, since getting KO'd even once in that game mode forces you to start all over.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

's Target Test stage for those impassable platforms at the right constantly moving down offscreen. And 's Target Test for those flashing yellow blocks to the left. Mistiming the side-b will result in one getting shocked and rebounding downward with no chance to recover.

 

[CursedKaiju]

Gripes with smash64 : harder to get now (im a younger person who never had a n64,and the ports are meh) otherwise its great

melee: as a melee fan there is so much wrong here. Character balance and the roster (hate pichu, young link and ganon) (probably more stuff but too tired to think)

brawl:tripping and too floaty (i am one of the few who actually LOVE brawls artstyle)

sm4sh: too floaty and roster

(probably more stuff for all games except 64 but too tired to think)

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

Yeah...I despise Melee's home run contest for not having that invisible shield like Brawl and 4 have. I hate how in Brawl the CPUs all like to come after humans in free-for-alls. *sigh* Well, that's everything I hate about Smash.

 

[CursedKaiju]

Yeah...I despise Melee's home run contest for not having that invisible shield like Brawl and 4 have. I hate how in Brawl the CPUs all like to come after humans in free-for-alls. *sigh* Well, that's everything I hate about Smash.

why didn't u just do one long post instead of all these posts that are a couple of sentences?

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

why didn't u just do one long post instead of all these posts that are a couple of sentences?

Seriously, sug? Y'all shouldn't care how long or short my posts are. It's not like I'm trying to make a novel, you know.

 

[CursedKaiju]

Seriously, sug? Y'all shouldn't care how long or short my posts are. It's not like I'm trying to make a novel, you know.

im just saying that it you have tons of thoughts why not have it in one post

 

[Deleted member]

Super Smash Bros.

• Peach is absent
• Inability to disable those volatile container items
• Having to set the mode to stock every time I hop on to play

Super Smash Bros. Melee

• Again, the inability to disable container items
• Wobbuffet and Togepi
• Having to set the mode to stock every time I hop on to play

Super Smash Bros. Brawl

• Random tripping (duh)
• Wobbuffet, Manaphy and Togepi
• Having to set the mode to stock every time I hop on to play

Super Smash Bros. 4

• Wii U's challenge board
• Palkia, Skull Kid, Togepi, and Nightmare
• Having to set the mode to stock every time I hop on to play

 

[McChicken]

. Seriously. Why Sakurai?
I also really dislike the toxic part of "For Glory". It kinda takes away the fun for me.
Another big bummer is the menues. They are just so bad. Why would anyone think that menues like that would be a good design choice

 

[MercuryPenny]

, fighting , myself

also how the community insists on being a bunch of whiny babies and fragmenting itself continuously

 

[Nohbl]

I hate how tr4sh gameplay constantly resets to neutral because extended combos are virtually impossible, and how mercilessly and savagely characters like Jigglypuff and Falco were spayed and neutered, while DLC cast were made to be stronger than a good chunk of the cast in many aspects, even the ones the lower tiers supposedly had as their strengths; consider Cloud, who is better Falco, just with no grab followups or a reflector.

I maybe have some complaints about Project M. One that comes to mind is that I think certain characters were not buffed enough; some stuff like Pit's up special being invincible from above just makes sense yet is not a feature, and a character like Jigglypuff is so weak compared to everyone else that her players are forced to do almost nothing but go for Rest, which she has very little set-ups for in the metagame (from my perspective at least), making her a not very rewarding character to play against most characters.

Just off the top of my head.

 

[Mamboo07]

-Yoshi still hasn't gotten a second rep for years.
-No Wario Land representation except for 1 song, I feel like Sakurai doesn't care about it.
-The Fire Emblem roster is pure absolute laziness, seriously there's too many swords.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

64:

- No Air dodge mechanic
- No Spot dodge mechanic

Melee:

- Too many clones for the small size of the roster
- Ganondorf as a Captain Falcon clone

Brawl:

- Tripping mechanic
- Mewtwo getting cut
- Ganondorf as a Captain Falcon semi-clone
- Lack of villains in the roster

Smash 4:

- Smash Tour
- Ganondorf still as a Captain Falcon semi-clone
- Still a lack of villains in the roster
- Lack of more character representation for underrepresented franchises outside of Mario and Pokemon
- Classic Break the Targets getting cut
- No Adventure Mode or Story Mode

Ultimate:

- Break the Targets getting cut
- Home Run Contest getting cut
- All Star Mode getting cut
- Ganondorf still as a Captain Falcon semi-clone
- Lack of female newcomers
- Lack of Nintendo DLC newcomers