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what are your main issues with ultimate

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,657
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
Since most people have addressed a lot of my common complaints with the game (buffer, input lag, online stuff) - I'll say the one thing that I really have trouble adjusting to with characters that have zairs:

The ability to cancel your neutral airdodge with a Zair. And in doing so, you could perform an instant Zair while holding an item. It's one of the things that I liked a lot in Brawl, and added a deeper level to Toon Link's zoning game by being able to zair while holding a bomb. I would definitely play one of the classic Links if this was still a thing (also if the autocancel SH double arrows made a return from Brawl, but that's a huge stretch), but can't get into them as they are now.
 
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Knotw

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 4, 2019
Messages
2
My main issues are shields being nerfed and how c-stick inputs get dropped sometimes.
 

Ice-N-Space

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 2, 2018
Messages
94
Toad being in Peach's grabs removing two of them, blocking the view from Peach and not even letting her fight with her own attacks!

Still doesn't change Peach's ledge attack back to normal like it was in melee and brawl.

No custom stage.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Mr. Game & Watch's moveset.

It's been four months since launch, and I still sometimes play as him with the hope that he's as good as he used to be.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
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Mushroom Kingdom
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Don't get me started on GW's new animations. I hate them.
I too feel that the model changes between attacks is rather unnecessary. I get that they're supposed to reference the Game & Watch titles, but that can lead to inconsistent hurtbox placements. And of course, Fire Attack did have a racist depiction in the beta revisions.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Don't get me started on GW's new animations. I hate them.
I don't actually have a problem with them, it's the fact that some of them change Mr. Game & Watch's moves for absolutely no reason that I'm not a fan of.
 

Arthur97

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
3,463
I don't actually have a problem with them, it's the fact that some of them change Mr. Game & Watch's moves for absolutely no reason that I'm not a fan of.
Up and down tilts are really the only ones I can think of that are strictly due to the animations. Though, they neutered up smash's invincibility, so, yay.

I've seen it said the animations give him more personality, but I'd argue they give him less. Now he feels like less of his own being and more of simply an amalgamation. Especially since not all of the sprites even look the same. No, I much preferred the universal sprite/model.
 

Mamboo07

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 23, 2019
Messages
9,393
Location
Hollow Earth
Here are my issues with Ultimate: (I like the game)
1. Fire Emblem variety (Swords, swords and more swords, adding Chrom was the last straw or broke the camel's back)

2. Terrible Online (Why oh why oh why did Sakurai made us buy paid online?)

3. World of Light has bored me to absolute zero (i liked it, but should have been like Melee's Adventure mode)

4. Yoshi getting the short end of the stick EVERY. SINGLE. TIME! (has no second rep, no boss and not being in cut scenes, poor Yoshi...)

5. No Wario Land representation (Has Shoulder Bash but he should had it as a side special or have his helmet transformations in it with many more... Wario Land really needs to come back)

6. Assist Trophies ruin dreams of many fans wanting Waluigi or anyone playable

6. THE. FREAKING. DLC. LEAKS is starting to make me angry a lot (Curse you Vergeben and other random leakers)
Sorry about the last one

oh and here's some Kirby emotes:
<(0.0)>"Poyo?"
^(0,0)^"Haaiii"
<(-.-)>"Zzzzzz..."
<(0.-)^"Poyo!"
 
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YoshiandToad

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
7,113
Location
Still up Peach's dress.
Kind of a minor thing to most people but I really hate the new way to set the rules. Every single Smash prior had a perfectly adequate way to change the rules, so I have no clue why Ultimate felt the need to reinvent the wheel on a system that works.

The level 9 CPUs being able to perfect shield everything you throw at them is really frustrating too

Toad's inclusion in Peach's moveset is one (awful) thing. Daisy should probably have gotten her own subjects to rule over though. #freethetoad

Stage Creator not being compatible with a stylus which would make precision drawing far easier

Overall I'm not sure what it is but I'm just not enjoying Ultimate as much as I did Sm4sh and I can't put my finger on why...
 

OnyanRings

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
Messages
711
Location
The Cale-Zone
Switch FC
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Ness and Lucas's new victory theme kinda sucks now, i hate hearing it.

I know it's the 8 melodies and i really like that song normally but it's really jarring in this context.
 

UserKev

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
2,637
I could care less for online. My main issues are no trophies. I dislike what turns me off from WoL, its theme song kills the Smash atmosphere for me.
 

VvToresvV

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
1
I don't know if this is a popular opinion but I have problems with the buffer time that never had with the other smash ganes.
 
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Sour Supreme

サイマグネット
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
2,704
Location
The Homebrew Channel
I could care less for online. My main issues are no trophies. I dislike what turns me off from WoL, its theme song kills the Smash atmosphere for me.
I'm with you there, man. Trophies were a fantastic part of Smash for people who liked learning about obscure characters. Seems they were nudged to the side for the sake of Spirits, which, lets be honest, Spirits are lame.
 

Baby_Sneak

Smash Champion
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
2,029
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Middletown, Ohio
NNID
sneak_diss
not really specific to ultimate, but can be chalked up to modern fighting games: frequent patching.

smash 4 needed it desperately. cool. but, the culture and expectations set up and all of the programming it does to the players and communities just lends itself to a less explored game. smash 4 never really got super nuanced. players rely on patches more. they are less encouraged to dig for answers. Name a modern game that reached a late meta. melee has more tech discovered after all these years (literally google "ssbm discovered tech" to see all the boatloads of stuff found recently). Super Turbo (Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo for those not knowing) is a fighting game made back in the 90s that, of recent years, discovered new tech (here, here, and here).

ultimate is on the same track. you'll have crazy setups and tech shown on twitter, yes, but it's encouraged to hide the tech to keep the devs from patching it their way. ICs are playing tom-and-jerry with the devs to keep their desyncs.

i just prefer fighting games to reach late stage meta, or be completely explored. Smash 4 is a sad case to me for this reason, and I hope ultimate don't end up the same.
 

Megadoomer

Moderator
Moderator
Writing Team
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Jun 28, 2013
Messages
10,284
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My main issue is that collecting spirits feels a little pointless. With previous games, you had descriptions that could help you learn about the characters or give you an idea of what game(s) they were from. Sure, sometimes, they had spoilers (such as Brawl's Earthbound section spoiling what seems to be every single aspect of Mother 3), but they helped us learn about Nintendo history, along with third party games.

Without descriptions, we're just left with a static image that you could easily find through Google, and nothing else. Sure, I get it - 3D models would be time-consuming to make (particularly in cases where no 3D models exist for the character), and descriptions would probably add a great deal of time to the localization process. However, would it kill them to add one or two games that these characters are from? I'm not saying that they should spoil every single detail about Fiora from Xenoblade, Makoto Niijima from Persona 5, or the Bonus Fruit from Pac-Man, but with no information, there's not much reason to go back to the spirit gallery.
 

MrGameguycolor

Smash Lord
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Apr 16, 2015
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Somewhere in this Universe
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MrGameguycolor
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My main issue is that collecting spirits feels a little pointless. With previous games, you had descriptions that could help you learn about the characters or give you an idea of what game(s) they were from. Sure, sometimes, they had spoilers (such as Brawl's Earthbound section spoiling what seems to be every single aspect of Mother 3), but they helped us learn about Nintendo history, along with third party games.
Well it's not in the game, but at least someone gave the spirits descriptions in this website.
 

HeavyMaster

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 25, 2019
Messages
33
Location
Québec
It probably has been said by some people, but I hate how in online mode, the only way to play a casual match of any type (FFA, team or 1v1) without the pressure of being ranked from it is the arenas, in which you have to wait around, not even 100% sure if you'll be able to play, because the host might close the arena if they lost. It happened to me A LOT of times.
 
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GhostClown

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Messages
7
More than anything I want more strict matchmaking; I hate team battles and would rather wait longer for matches than play that abusable garbage. It would be good to have a "no team battle" option in preferred.

I would like them to stop making clone characters; much is improved on that front but still... Two new characters with the Belmonts and they are the same? Why? Surely there was more in those games to pull from. Daisy might be slightly harder but Mario franchise has endless options.

This is my favorite game in the series, some characters annoy me in combat style but it's as good as its ever been in most ways.
 

Megadoomer

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More than anything I want more strict matchmaking; I hate team battles and would rather wait longer for matches than play that abusable garbage. It would be good to have a "no team battle" option in preferred.

I would like them to stop making clone characters; much is improved on that front but still... Two new characters with the Belmonts and they are the same? Why? Surely there was more in those games to pull from. Daisy might be slightly harder but Mario franchise has endless options.

This is my favorite game in the series, some characters annoy me in combat style but it's as good as its ever been in most ways.
One thing to keep in mind about clone characters is that they're generally added at the last minute because they're quick and easy ways to expand the roster and give players alternatives in terms of playstyles. (For example, I find Marth's tipper mechanic to be incredibly finicky, so I prefer being able to play as Lucina and not having to worry about it)

To use Castlevania as an example, it's not like they could have chosen to include Simon and Alucard, but they went with Richter instead - it's either Simon and Richter, Simon and another Belmont with a similar playstyle, or Simon and nobody.

Plus, it gives opportunities for characters who are popular, but not unique enough to get in as a brand new character, like Chrom or Ken. There are some questionable choices - Dark Samus definitely seems like she/it could be unique when compared to Samus based on her/its assist trophy from the last game, let alone the boss fights in the Metroid Prime games, and Dark Pit has so few differences that it's easy to question why he's not just an alternate costume like Alph.

Still, with the development cycle being as rushed as it apparently is, clones are a good way to pad out the roster - in the base game, we got six unique newcomers and five echo fighters. Without the echo fighters, the number of new characters drops by about half, and say what you will about some of them, but there are plenty of people who were thrilled to see some of those echo fighters make it into the game.
 

Guybrush20X6

Creator of Lego Theory
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As with a lot of people, the fact that the Echos fall a bit short.

Though I'm of two minds of how to fix it, either:

A. Existing Echos need to be more unique
B. There simply needs to be more Echos (at least Roy vs Chrom levels of different)
 

Gobthor

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 7, 2017
Messages
24
Location
Far Rockaway, New York
Switch FC
SW-3201-4105-0939
No taunts online.

Goodbye Luigi's kick!
Goodbye Snake's box!
Goodbye Greninja's... water thing..!

Now everyone just teabags. We all know what teabagging is, it's the unfriendly version of taunting basically. What's next? Remove crouching!?

inb4 "Goodbye Luigi's crouch walk!"
 
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Mogisthelioma

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,596
Location
Ravnica
-Lackluster singleplayer
-Awful balance philosophy
-Disappointing selection of extra gamemodes
-Awful online (beating a dead horse at this point)
-Poor presentaion
-Cryptic details on newcomers
 

UserKev

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
2,637
-Lackluster singleplayer
-Awful balance philosophy
-Disappointing selection of extra gamemodes
-Awful online (beating a dead horse at this point)
-Poor presentaion
-Cryptic details on newcomers
Man it seems Smash has really took a turn for the worst and yet we're called ungrateful when the game is literally tilted (Super Smash Bros. Ultimate)? In Smash's case, its not just the "Characters" that make the game.
 

MaddaD

Smash Journeyman
Writing Team
Joined
Apr 25, 2019
Messages
215
I've had lots of fun with the game, but my gripes against it have piled up lately.

Spirits/World of Light - WoL and its counterpart were a welcome sight after the lack of Subspace in Smash 4, and it was actually a really fun mode to fool around on and learn the beginnings of the game if you were new. The main problems in the mode were pretty straightforward. WoL has no replayability once you've completed it and is a chore to get through the first time. WoD, on the other hand, feels rushed, as if it was a last minute addition because the first map was considered "too short".

Spirits in general are a lackluster replacement for trophies and to an extent, stickers. Most are .pngs of existing assets in games and such, with very few being original remakes or designs. They don't hold any real value as was advertised, and combining valuable spirits just really doesn't feel impactful in a way as they might have intended. Trophies had mostly the same thing, but gave you history about the characters, or fun little quips about who they were and what they did. Zooming out on your trophy collection after scoring them all was a feeling of real accomplishment.

Eco Fighters - When I first saw the information about Echo Fighters, I was actually very excited. They were actually making the clone system an actual thing and every echo fighter would be its own thing based on the moveset of an original fighter. My hopes for Daisy/Dark Samus/Richter were pretty large.

Fast forward to release and I'm disappointed. Each play the same as their counterparts with VERY minor differences (Richter's side B has aura properties from Simon's as an example). The only one I could say is different would be Chrom, but that's only on the fact his kit combines 3 other FE character's kits into one. Remember back in Melee when the differences between characters with similar kits were noteworthy? Luigi had a similar moveset to Mario but was different enough for him to be a separate character? Luigi's nair sent your opponent up instead of away, his down B hit twice instead of multiple, instead of a cape, he had his own side B?

Online - Everything's been said to death so this will be short. Why do I have to play on somebody else's ruleset half the time? If I don't want to play matches with items or smash balls, then I don't want to play with them, period. Why am I at the mercy of another person's internet when the match starts lagging? Why is GSP so meaningless in this game?

"New Tech" - My main annoyance with Nintendo is that if a new tech or strategy comes out, it's immediately removed or nerfed so far into uselessness that it's worthless. This is why we don't hear or see so many "new tech discovered" news or information as before. They seem to want us to play the game "as they intended it" which is no way for an online fighting game to be handled. I'm not expecting techs on the level of Ice Climbers wobbling or desync, but at least something.
 

FartyParty

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 15, 2018
Messages
286
Location
New Jersey
Switch FC
SW-7316-5581-8026
1) The hold buffer. What a garbage mechanic. Yeah, yeah, I know, it makes getting frame perfect options easier, but I don't care. I don't think frame perfect options should be easier. I think every input should be timed in coordination with the character animations, and if you can't time your inputs well enough to get them frame perfect, then you don't deserve frame perfect inputs. And I say this fully aware that I personally wouldn't get as many frame perfect inputs without the hold buffer. Shifting the input timing so its out of sync from the character animations really annoys me, and all the mis-inputs caused by the hold buffer detract from the game moreso than easier frame-perfect inputs improve the game.

2) The online issues people have already mentioned.

3) No rewind/fast forward in video playback. I get why there's no rewind/fast forward in replays because those are just a set of control inputs that the game uses to re-render the match, but once you convert to video, there is not a single legitimate reason on Earth for the lack of rewind/fast forward. It's stunning that Nintendo left it out. Even more stunning that they included rewind/fast forward when watching videos in the online shared content, but didn't patch it into the regular, offline video playback!!

4) Nothing to do with the game itself, but I hate this feeling like I'm playing an impossible game of "catch up". I didn't expect to get into competitive Smash, but it happened. Now I'm trying to catch up in skill to people who have been playing competitive Smash for years, and most of those people are able to put more hours into the game than I am so catching up to their level doesn't seem feasible. Am I destined to never be as good as I'd like? Most likely, and that kinda sucks.
 
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GhostClown

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Messages
7
One thing to keep in mind about clone characters is that they're generally added at the last minute because they're quick and easy ways to expand the roster and give players alternatives in terms of playstyles. (For example, I find Marth's tipper mechanic to be incredibly finicky, so I prefer being able to play as Lucina and not having to worry about it)

To use Castlevania as an example, it's not like they could have chosen to include Simon and Alucard, but they went with Richter instead - it's either Simon and Richter, Simon and another Belmont with a similar playstyle, or Simon and nobody.

Plus, it gives opportunities for characters who are popular, but not unique enough to get in as a brand new character, like Chrom or Ken. There are some questionable choices - Dark Samus definitely seems like she/it could be unique when compared to Samus based on her/its assist trophy from the last game, let alone the boss fights in the Metroid Prime games, and Dark Pit has so few differences that it's easy to question why he's not just an alternate costume like Alph.

Still, with the development cycle being as rushed as it apparently is, clones are a good way to pad out the roster - in the base game, we got six unique newcomers and five echo fighters. Without the echo fighters, the number of new characters drops by about half, and say what you will about some of them, but there are plenty of people who were thrilled to see some of those echo fighters make it into the game.
I get that it makes it easier to add more characters quickly, and more is usually better when it comes to fighting games. To be clear I don't consider Lucina or Chrom in this debate because there are actual differences that allow unique mastery (Marth is more fun for me because the tipper requires spacing but that makes him subject to mistakes much more frequently). If they would just do slight changes, like Richter's projectiles are faster but less damage / knockback, that would be enough that I wouldn't complain. Having nothing different other than color schemes seems wasteful, and once people who are fans get used to the playstyle it becomes harder to change them later.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Random jumping without any input.

I use trigger to jump and turned stick jump off to try to stop this from happening. When I hold down on the control stick trying to fast fall sometimes my character will do a random jump (this only has happened when I am already in the air). I was starting to think I might be gripping the controller too tight and accidentally pressing my trigger, but this is absolutely not the case. I am 100% positive it will happen without any other input other than holding down on the control stick.

I have 2 different GameCube style pro controllers and it happens with both, they were only $30 CAD. Are these just cheap controllers and the cause of the issue? Does this happen to people with real pro controllers, or real GameCube controllers?

I own 2 of these controllers: https://www.google.com/search?biw=1...gws-wiz-img.hMCYVUXUqS4#imgrc=eNrz-eH96HuDpM:
 

FartyParty

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 15, 2018
Messages
286
Location
New Jersey
Switch FC
SW-7316-5581-8026
Random jumping without any input.

I use trigger to jump and turned stick jump off to try to stop this from happening. When I hold down on the control stick trying to fast fall sometimes my character will do a random jump (this only has happened when I am already in the air). I was starting to think I might be gripping the controller too tight and accidentally pressing my trigger, but this is absolutely not the case. I am 100% positive it will happen without any other input other than holding down on the control stick.

I have 2 different GameCube style pro controllers and it happens with both, they were only $30 CAD. Are these just cheap controllers and the cause of the issue? Does this happen to people with real pro controllers, or real GameCube controllers?

I own 2 of these controllers: https://www.google.com/search?biw=1...gws-wiz-img.hMCYVUXUqS4#imgrc=eNrz-eH96HuDpM:
3rd party controllers are indeed more likely to have mis-input issues. That could definitely be the source of your problem.
 

Mogisthelioma

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,596
Location
Ravnica
This is a really nice problem I have, but it's Meta Knight's c-stick f-tilt. If there is literally any lag whatsoever the move will cancel and instead of going to the second or third hit of the move he will continue to input the first hit of his f-tilt. It's so annoying.
 
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