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We've got buffs (Update 7.0.0)

stixie

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tbf that move has always been hot garbage vs people who actually know about it. So what seems off? They're timing to punish, they're not getting hit but standing close?
No only scrubs play like that LOL!! I don't randomly throw out neutral b for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I use it for a reflector or a really super aggressive opponent that won't back off.

So what I've noticed is the move doesn't come out NEARLY as fast (so I find myself getting hit by projectiles) and it also doesn't send the opponent NEARLY as far as it used to when I use it on someone up close (like sometimes I hit the opponent with the move and they go nowhere and I get punished even after hitting them). It just seems off to me.
 

Lil Puddin

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No only scrubs play like that LOL!! I don't randomly throw out neutral b for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I use it for a reflector or a really super aggressive opponent that won't back off.

So what I've noticed is the move doesn't come out NEARLY as fast (so I find myself getting hit by projectiles) and it also doesn't send the opponent NEARLY as far as it used to when I use it on someone up close (like sometimes I hit the opponent with the move and they go nowhere and I get punished even after hitting them). It just seems off to me.
iirc the reflect part isn't active until frame 4. As for the KB, it's possible they were only nicked by the multi-hit and backed away before the final hit. The final KB sucks vs heavies or fast moving characters at low percents.
 

Lacrimosa

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I'd like to see a buff for Nayru. Easily her worst special move now that Din got buffed quite significantly (finally a good edge-guarding tool as it should be).
Obvious buff would be less cooldown but not sure how more casual players would react to it. But it's the worst reflector due to the cooldown and does nothing against chars like YL who have very little cooldown after, in this case, Boomerang and sometimes even Fire Arrows. It reflects, but it also leaves Zelda wide open. It has really no usage in this MU and you're better off with the Phantom just blocking the projectiles.
That also goes for the Samus MU.
 

stixie

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I'd like to see a buff for Nayru. Easily her worst special move now that Din got buffed quite significantly (finally a good edge-guarding tool as it should be).
Obvious buff would be less cooldown but not sure how more casual players would react to it. But it's the worst reflector due to the cooldown and does nothing against chars like YL who have very little cooldown after, in this case, Boomerang and sometimes even Fire Arrows. It reflects, but it also leaves Zelda wide open. It has really no usage in this MU and you're better off with the Phantom just blocking the projectiles.
That also goes for the Samus MU.
I agree.

Very difficult thing to buff.

I think I'd make it like wolf's reflector where she can hold it down.

The move would operate the same as it does now just with the ability to hold the reflector. The beginning of the move still has IF and it still damages and does knockback as it does now but she can hold the REFLECT part. The hold on the reflect would have no IF and would not damage the opponent anymore but it would nullify characters (like Samus) who stand on one side and lob projectiles as their game plan. They'd actually have to... ya know... play the game.
 

Oz o:

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I'd like to see a buff for Nayru. Easily her worst special move now that Din got buffed quite significantly (finally a good edge-guarding tool as it should be).
Obvious buff would be less cooldown but not sure how more casual players would react to it. But it's the worst reflector due to the cooldown and does nothing against chars like YL who have very little cooldown after, in this case, Boomerang and sometimes even Fire Arrows. It reflects, but it also leaves Zelda wide open. It has really no usage in this MU and you're better off with the Phantom just blocking the projectiles.
That also goes for the Samus MU.
lawl wat Nayru's is godlike. It's just the players without a brain in wifi that think they can abuse it. Move is good as hell, and I'd go as far as to say it's one her Top 5 moves. I don't even use it as an actual reflector most of the time. I use it far more for it's invicibility and stalling properties, as well as gimping and things like setting up into Phantom.

Sure, it's like -Go****Yourself on shield, but there's a reason you don't use it for that.
 

stixie

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lawl wat Nayru's is godlike. It's just the players without a brain in wifi that think they can abuse it. Move is good as hell, and I'd go as far as to say it's one her Top 5 moves. I don't even use it as an actual reflector most of the time. I use it far more for it's invicibility and stalling properties, as well as gimping and things like setting up into Phantom.

Sure, it's like -Go****Yourself on shield, but there's a reason you don't use it for that.
I think he more meant it as the reflector part of it. It has so much lag that characters like young link can just spam on her and ignore the 1 reflected fire arrow out of the 22 he shot at you.
 

Lacrimosa

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lawl wat Nayru's is godlike. It's just the players without a brain in wifi that think they can abuse it. Move is good as hell, and I'd go as far as to say it's one her Top 5 moves. I don't even use it as an actual reflector most of the time. I use it far more for it's invicibility and stalling properties, as well as gimping and things like setting up into Phantom.

Sure, it's like -Go****Yourself on shield, but there's a reason you don't use it for that.
This move is fairly useless against fast characters and the large amount of high/top-tiers are made out of fast and safe chaaracters. I don't see how you would use this move in these match-ups except if you want to get punished. It does very little in this scenario. I don't see how this move is good in any way with this amount of endlag. The risk-reward is totally skewed.
 

Erotic&Heretic

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Considering how the move is, I would buff the reflection itself. So far, despite being a commitment move, compare to someone like Fox, the damage AND speedmultiplier is quite subpar, especially the damage.

I personally would buff the speed multiplier to ensure the opponent get hit by his own attack, but a damage buff could be nice as well.
 

Codebox

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To be fair Ult Nayru's is the best Nayru has ever been, but to consider it unpunishable is just bad.
 

Lil Puddin

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To be fair Ult Nayru's is the best Nayru has ever been, but to consider it unpunishable is just bad.
Ya, unless we're talking about online play.

Her entire kit is the best it's ever been, it's just... It wasn't very safe/good to begin with lmao.

imo I'd buff Dtilt's size, Nair's hitbox (add one to her twirling body), and -1 frame to Grab/Jab startup. Just quick fixes that don't break her and would help her neutral without constantly summoning the Black Knight from Fire Emblem. Like. Damn gorl. The dude's got stuff to do. Give him a break.
 

Codebox

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I can't tell you how much I want a Nair, D-Tilt and Grab buff, these would help her neutral so much! Especially her Grab speed! Maybe more drifting speed would be nice too. I'd also go with U-Smash being an option as well
 

Lacrimosa

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Given patch 8.0 came out I really think she's going to struggle a lot with the new meta as it buffed mostly characters who she struggled to begin with, namely :ultbayonetta::ultdiddy: and especially :ultfalco:. These bad MUs didn't matter so much in the past.
These chars will become even more popular now and that affects her viability a lot. If she doesn't get help in the next patch, she'll up in bottom tier in the next patch without buffs, if she's not already there.
 

Codebox

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Given patch 8.0 came out I really think she's going to struggle a lot with the new meta as it buffed mostly characters who she struggled to begin with, namely :ultbayonetta::ultdiddy: and especially :ultfalco:. These bad MUs didn't matter so much in the past.
These chars will become even more popular now and that affects her viability a lot. If she doesn't get help in the next patch, she'll up in bottom tier in the next patch without buffs, if she's not already there.
What help in particular?
 

Lil Puddin

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What help in particular?
Getting some of those "less vulnerability" buffs that everyone else seems to be getting. A better Nair that's in line with every other Nair would be lovely too.
 
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stixie

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Given patch 8.0 came out I really think she's going to struggle a lot with the new meta as it buffed mostly characters who she struggled to begin with, namely :ultbayonetta::ultdiddy: and especially :ultfalco:. These bad MUs didn't matter so much in the past.
These chars will become even more popular now and that affects her viability a lot. If she doesn't get help in the next patch, she'll up in bottom tier in the next patch without buffs, if she's not already there.
Never really had a problem with Diddy.

Bayo...................... [shivers].

Falco......................[also shivers].

I don't think it moves Zelda in the tier list personally. I think she's high tier (offline) and has been since 7.0. HOWEVER... she ABSOLUTELY NEEDS to get some love in the next patch. If 50 other characters get a buff in 9.0 (or whatever it's gonna be) and she misses out again........ it's gonna be bad.
 

Lacrimosa

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I didn't realize it but after playing some matches and fSmash being so safe on shield, I noticed one flaw with that move:

Can opponents please not fall out of it so easily? It makes me so upset when you catch someone jumping mindlessly at kill percent and they just fall out of the move. The move itself is super good otherwise but it kinda connects poorly when you catch the opponent at max range of the move (which should be rewarded because you space properly; furthest away from the opponent but the hitboxes still hit).

I really like this move (because it's so safe), so I use it a lot and I exaggerate when I say it disappoints me, but it could connect better into itself.
 
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stixie

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I didn't realize it but after playing some matches and fSmash being so safe on shield, I noticed one flaw with that move:

Can opponents please not fall out of it so easily? It makes me so upset when you catch someone jumping mindlessly at kill percent and they just fall out of the move. The move itself is super good otherwise but it kinda connects poorly when you catch the opponent at max range of the move (which should be rewarded because you space properly; furthest away from the opponent but the hitboxes still hit).

I really like this move (because it's so safe), so I use it a lot and I exaggerate when I say it disappoints me, but it could connect better into itself.
If you're hitting fsmash at max range consistently and finding people fall out. Use ftilt instead. It kills at like 70 on the ledge but it has a tipper you need to hit, so max range ftilt kills earlier (i think) than fsmash does. Zelda ftilt is nuts.
 

Lacrimosa

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If you're hitting fsmash at max range consistently and finding people fall out. Use ftilt instead. It kills at like 70 on the ledge but it has a tipper you need to hit, so max range ftilt kills earlier (i think) than fsmash does. Zelda ftilt is nuts.
True, but my biggest flaw is (or one of my biggest flaw besides a poor mindset sometimes) is that I never use any tilts. Dunno, it's just too much for to control the C-stick (I use Tilt-Stick because I know Zelda's tilts are great) when I also have to control the rest :p.
It's getting better over time and I can use up-tilt when I need to but the other two tilts are still not in my muscle memory.

But don't get me wrong, I agree with you and I'd wish I didn't have this problem.
 

stixie

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True, but my biggest flaw is (or one of my biggest flaw besides a poor mindset sometimes) is that I never use any tilts. Dunno, it's just too much for to control the C-stick (I use Tilt-Stick because I know Zelda's tilts are great) when I also have to control the rest :p.
It's getting better over time and I can use up-tilt when I need to but the other two tilts are still not in my muscle memory.

But don't get me wrong, I agree with you and I'd wish I didn't have this problem.
Yep I understand. This was me 6 months ago. I basically never used her tilts but now I use all of them. You'll get used to it.

Ftilt - spacing tool if you want it to be (has the range of a sword) but the BEST ftilt in the game now after 7.0 kill power wise.

Dtilt - great for early percent dtilt into fair combos but doesn't work late percents. An amazing two frame at the ledge move. Two frame dtilt into drop down dair for spike kills.

Uptilt - best combo starter other than falling nair.
 
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