We've got buffs (Update 7.0.0)

buzzard

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#1
So patch notes are out in japanese only for now, but it seems that Zelda got some stuff for herself, plus the almost universal shield buff.
 

buzzard

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#3
https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/48674

Side Tilt Attack Increased power.
Extended launch distance.
Neutral Air Attack Reduced vulnerability when landing after using the move.
Made it easier to hit multiple times.
Up Air Attack Increased attack range.
Increased the amount of time hit detection lasts.
Decreased power for the latter half of the time hit detection lasts.
Extended launch distance when hit in the high-damage range.
Side Special Increased the high-damage range.
Increased the amount of time hit detection lasts.
Down Special Increased power.
Extended launch distance.
Other Increased shield size.
 

StoicPhantom

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#4
It's a Christmas miracle.

Nair being less laggy is good. Up-air getting knockback buffs is really good, it always felt a little weak. Phantom getting power buffs might make it a legitimate kill move. Kinda whatever on the rest. I don't think F-Tilt or Din's Fire really had any issues. Never had an issue with Nair's hitbox either.

Overall, it won't change her too significantly, but is a nice touch up regardless. Kinda wish they did something about Up-Smash, but the other tweaks are pretty nice. Not sure whats up with the shield stuff though. Never had any issues in that regard.
 

Brinzy

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#5
I don't think F-Tilt or Din's Fire really had any issues. Never had an issue with Nair's hitbox either.
F-tilt and Din's "issues" were that they were underwhelming moves. Mainly F-tilt.

If you nair'd from beneath someone, they fell out very consistently. Big problem when someone's on a platform and you're trying to catch a spotdodge/roll but don't wanna risk missing the kick. The move was definitely broken.
 

StoicPhantom

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#7
F-tilt and Din's "issues" were that they were underwhelming moves. Mainly F-tilt.

If you nair'd from beneath someone, they fell out very consistently. Big problem when someone's on a platform and you're trying to catch a spotdodge/roll but don't wanna risk missing the kick. The move was definitely broken.
I can understand F-Tilt yeah, although I mostly used it as a spacing and stage control tool, so underwhelming power never really bothered me that much. Din's always seemed fine to me though, it worked as a good edgeguarding tool that got early kills. I never really had that issue with Nair though. And being under people was where I used that move the most, so I dunno what to say.
 

Oz o:

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#8
Nair being less laggy is good. Up-air getting knockback buffs is really good, it always felt a little weak.
I actually once labbed a couple of the strongest Uairs, and Zelda & Ivysaur tied for the strongest, and next came something like Charizard, Ike and then Bowser. Palutena's kills 26% later than Zelda's, though the reason you probably see them kill pretty early with it is because she can manuever a lot more easily and high up.
 

Brinzy

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#9
I can understand F-Tilt yeah, although I mostly used it as a spacing and stage control tool, so underwhelming power never really bothered me that much. Din's always seemed fine to me though, it worked as a good edgeguarding tool that got early kills. I never really had that issue with Nair though. And being under people was where I used that move the most, so I dunno what to say.
You're the luckiest person alive if you've played this much Zelda and never had that happen to your nair. I've seen this happen to top Zeldas in tournaments, and pretty much everyone else noticed.

And the other moves absolutely needed the buffs. Zelda's ftilt is a spacing tool, yes, but given its speed and the type of character she is, it needed to have comparable kill power to ones seen on power characters. This is significant because it means she can now pick up kills more reliably with ftilt that she may not have gotten with Fsmash due to startup. Din's has always had a good hitbox or good kill power (or neither in Melee). Being able to more consistently pop people out of low recoveries is what this character should excel at, and I see this as giving Zelda's upside even more consistency.

All in all, they're good buffs in the right direction. They were sorely needed.
 

Lacrimosa

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#10
About this upAir, looks like Meru has some numbers for it:


That's actually huge. A good anti-air that isn't uTilt? Might catch opponents that are jumping over phantom.
 

KayaMarley

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#11
It's a Christmas miracle.

Nair being less laggy is good. Up-air getting knockback buffs is really good, it always felt a little weak. Phantom getting power buffs might make it a legitimate kill move. Kinda whatever on the rest. I don't think F-Tilt or Din's Fire really had any issues. Never had an issue with Nair's hitbox either.

Overall, it won't change her too significantly, but is a nice touch up regardless. Kinda wish they did something about Up-Smash, but the other tweaks are pretty nice. Not sure whats up with the shield stuff though. Never had any issues in that regard.
I main Zelda and these are all things I've felt have been needed for a while now. I can't tell you how pleased I am by this.
 

Codebox

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#13
The Nair and Uair buffs were considerably needed. Any positive changes to aerial game is an automatic win in my book. She still could use a bit more buffs, but these are certainly a step in the right direction. I don't think Uair has ever been as good as it is now. Phantom Killing is always nice and what's that a Dins Buff?!
 

StoicPhantom

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#15
I actually once labbed a couple of the strongest Uairs, and Zelda & Ivysaur tied for the strongest, and next came something like Charizard, Ike and then Bowser. Palutena's kills 26% later than Zelda's, though the reason you probably see them kill pretty early with it is because she can manuever a lot more easily and high up.
I don't doubt that, I just always felt with as hard to land as Up-air is, it could stand to kill a little earlier than like 130 or whatever. Ivy can at least chain Up-air or easily mixup with other aerials. Zelda technically can too, but it's much harder and riskier to do so. Haven't had time to test the new buffs yet, but if we can get Up-air closer to 100, it will be a huge boon to Phantom traps and Up-Tilt/Dair/throw setups.

You're the luckiest person alive if you've played this much Zelda and never had that happen to your nair. I've seen this happen to top Zeldas in tournaments, and pretty much everyone else noticed.
IIRC Oz and Mystearica never had these problems either. It's not that I've never had anyone fall out, but it was rare and clearly my fault for not letting go of the stick or paying attention to DI. For the vast majority of the time, I had it work exactly like I wanted it to, in a variety of situations.

Though from what I'm hearing, the new changes make Nair 1 combos easier, so that's a positive change regardless.

And the other moves absolutely needed the buffs. Zelda's ftilt is a spacing tool, yes, but given its speed and the type of character she is, it needed to have comparable kill power to ones seen on power characters. This is significant because it means she can now pick up kills more reliably with ftilt that she may not have gotten with Fsmash due to startup. Din's has always had a good hitbox or good kill power (or neither in Melee). Being able to more consistently pop people out of low recoveries is what this character should excel at, and I see this as giving Zelda's upside even more consistency.
Don't get me wrong, buffs are buffs, and I'm happy regardless. Was just surprised at what they decided to buff. I personally feel that some these buffs aren't as relevant to me as others, but other people clearly feel they are to them, and they can't hurt, so all is good at the end of the day.
 

Brinzy

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#16
The Nair and Uair buffs were considerably needed. Any positive changes to aerial game is an automatic win in my book. She still could use a bit more buffs, but these are certainly a step in the right direction. I don't think Uair has ever been as good as it is now. Phantom Killing is always nice and what's that a Dins Buff?!
Uair buff is enormous. Having toyed around with it online, it almost feels like cheating with how good it is. And the Phantom buff... man, this thing kills so much earlier than I was expecting. It seems clear to me that they want to push her Phantom and ledge trapping game even higher, which is good because I think this is probably the best generalized way to play her.

And we seem to have the strongest fTilt in the game now
My favorite thing about this is now you can opt to use Fsmash as your damage builder if you're trying to punish someone who is spotdodge happy and then ftilt for much more consistent KOs. Or you can of course do it the other way around, but ftilt is finally an actual good move. Before it was just decent, but it wasn't exactly exciting to land.
 

Oz o:

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#17
The Ftilt buff is definitely surprising. It wasn't a bad move by any means, but it was a little hard to justify when FSmash was just a lot stronger with similiar cooldown and startup. I would've hoped to at least tone it down to like Frame 10, but this is pretty badass. Kills someone like Cloud at about 120 at the center of FD (before any DI or rage).

I don't doubt that, I just always felt with as hard to land as Up-air is, it could stand to kill a little earlier than like 130 or whatever. Ivy can at least chain Up-air or easily mixup with other aerials. Zelda technically can too, but it's much harder and riskier to do so. Haven't had time to test the new buffs yet, but if we can get Up-air closer to 100, it will be a huge boon to Phantom traps and Up-Tilt/Dair/throw setups.
It was definitely killing a lot earlier than that, unless you mean hitting heavies lower to the ground. I've killed people at 100-110 from the ledge. But I somewhat see what you mean. It always felt like it was just a few %s off from killing, and it's not like you always kill with this.

IIRC Oz and Mystearica never had these problems either. It's not that I've never had anyone fall out, but it was rare and clearly my fault for not letting go of the stick or paying attention to DI. For the vast majority of the time, I had it work exactly like I wanted it to, in a variety of situations.
Yeah, I never really saw what the big deal was about that. I just feel people weren't really good at using it, and it's like it required much thought, either. You just hold forward. Granted, it's not "supposed" to happen (that they fall out), but it's not like the move was anywhere as bad as people claimed.

And this was like my Top 2 used moves in neutral in almost a whole year of solo Zelda, so it's not like I don't know from experience. The only times it wasn't fully connecting was when I was either holding away, or at a sort diagional angle while fastfalling a bit.

If anything, they lowkey nerfed it. Now the full hits do like 15%, instead of 18%. :D
 

StoicPhantom

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#19
The Ftilt buff is definitely surprising. It wasn't a bad move by any means, but it was a little hard to justify when FSmash was just a lot stronger with similiar cooldown and startup. I would've hoped to at least tone it down to like Frame 10, but this is pretty badass. Kills someone like Cloud at about 120 at the center of FD (before any DI or rage).
It had its niche in covering moves that Fsmash couldn't beat, but this sounds like a good buff overall. I just didn't think it would be on the dev's radar.

It was definitely killing a lot earlier than that, unless you mean hitting heavies lower to the ground. I've killed people at 100-110 from the ledge. But I somewhat see what you mean. It always felt like it was just a few %s off from killing, and it's not like you always kill with this.
I tended to find that it would be closer to 120 with good DI. Though that might have been a Battlefield thing now that I think about it. Characters that aren't technically heavies like Cloud and Joker seemed pretty difficult to kill at 110.
 

Brinzy

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#20
Speaking of upAir, this thing is massive now
That might actually start beating some large disjointed dairs. I definitely don't know who off the top of my head, but perhaps some swordies at least. And then, at absolute worst, you can opt for the weaker hitbox if you're worried about getting clipped going for the punish. I actually wonder now what the kill %s on the sourspot are looking like.
 

Codebox

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#22
Zelda getting buff as been blasting on Twitter and Youtube. Hopefully this shows how much people want Zelda buffed and future patches take note of it. All we need now is a faster grab, old D-tilt and perhaps a weight or bigger Fair/Bair sweetspot/land lag buff.. Maybe even make U-Smash more useful by scooping hitbox. Dins being bigger almost reminds me of Brawl Dins, I wonder how much this buff changed it though, I haven't noticed anything.
 
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Oz o:

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#23
That might actually start beating some large disjointed dairs.
Might??? It always did. I've consistently beaten out stuff like Link & G&W Dair, and the only one it probably doesn't it just trades (Ivysaur). Our Uair has always been massive and beat pretty much anything.
 

Lacrimosa

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#24
Might??? It always did. I've consistently beaten out stuff like Link & G&W Dair, and the only one it probably doesn't it just trades (Ivysaur). Our Uair has always been massive and beat pretty much anything.
I still have ptsd from Shulk spiking me when I tried to create space with upAir on the ledge. Or maybe my timing was super awful.

Btw. how safe is fTilt on Shield now?
Still couldn't play any real games, it's still just only theorycrafting from me.
 

StoicPhantom

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#25
Finally got around to testing the new buffs. Don't have time to go to in depth (gotta leave soon), but these are my early impressions.

Nair

As expected, I'm not really seeing any changes. It still works like it did before for me, just looks a little faster. Nair 1 seems easier to combo from though, but nothing too amazing. I'm not sure it's safety on shield has changed either, but would probably need more testing.

Up-air

This is by far the most notable change. Being able to combo DK into an Up-air and then into a second Up-air that still kills at 100 is kind of ridiculous. It's really highlighted what I said about it seeming too weak. Lots of characters that felt safe taking to the air, because they weren't going to die by the previous Up-air, are now scrambling to get back to the ground as fast as possible. Even in the rare event I miss the sweetspot, the sourspot still lingers long enough now that I can combo into a sweetspot.

If I had to keep only one buff, this would be it and I would never look back. I'm no stranger to Phantom trapping people into Up-air, that has been my most frequent kill setup, and I'm ending games much quicker now.

F-Tilt

The buffs are noticeable and I get more stage control and people offstage quicker, but hasn't really had a significant impact on my gameplay. F-Tilt is still kind of awkward to use and is still probably going to be useful for certain situations. I'll work on seeing if I can incorporate it more into my play, but right now it's relatively minor to me.

Din's Fire

The hitbox being easier to hit is still kind of whatever, but the power buffs are pretty good. The full range would kill regardless, but the half range is pretty good now. I've killed DDD at 90 at the ledge with a half one and that wouldn't have happened before I don't think. I'm also smelling combo potential with the sourspot.

Not as substantial of a buff as Up-air, but still decent.

Phantom

It's still way early to see the full potential of this, but I am noticing the knockback increases. Been killing hard to hit characters like Pikachu at 120, which I don't think would have happened before, at least not onstage. Even the overhead slash isn't killing too far from that, which is huge compared to before. Lots of opponents get jumpy at kill time, so if we kill with the overhead slash, that will make Phantom deadly at high percents.


Overall, I'm pleased. Nair is a bit of a wash for me, F-Tilt feels nice but middling at the same time, Phantom, Din's Fire, and especially Up-air, are all good buffs. I feel like a lot of opponents are overcompensating for the new buffs currently, which leads them to be even more effective lol, so I expect their success to diminish somewhat as people get used to them. But so far they are still doing good work, and if nothing else, my success against the lag monsters in the top 50,000 of Elite has gone up, now that they can't abuse their lag and weasel out a tight victory as easy as before lol.

I still have ptsd from Shulk spiking me when I tried to create space with upAir on the ledge. Or maybe my timing was super awful.

Btw. how safe is fTilt on Shield now?
Still couldn't play any real games, it's still just only theorycrafting from me.
You can approach from the side of Shulk's Dair (assuming that's what you are talking about) and still catch him with the edge of Up-air. Oz isn't exaggerating the size, it really was comparable to pre patch Ivysaur's. Which is why it's rather bizarre that they decided to buff it's hitbox size, in addition to the knockback. It really didn't need it and there are times now, where I don't feel like I need to aim lol.

As far as F-Tilt's safety on shield, I haven't had time to test, as I've been busy getting ready for a trip. My guess is it's the same as before, where sweetspot was safe, but improper spacing wasn't.
 

Lacrimosa

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#26
Well, if the sweetspot of fTilt is safe now then it could be a damn good poking tool now which may also be viable in neutral now. You basically have to shield this move now. Pre-patch this move did absolutely nothing for me. Never used it.

Seems like Meru is very optimistic about her:
 
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stixie

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#28
Overall, I'm pleased. Nair is a bit of a wash for me, F-Tilt feels nice but middling at the same time, Phantom, Din's Fire, and especially Up-air, are all good buffs. I feel like a lot of opponents are overcompensating for the new buffs currently, which leads them to be even more effective lol, so I expect their success to diminish somewhat as people get used to them. But so far they are still doing good work, and if nothing else, my success against the lag monsters in the top 50,000 of Elite has gone up, now that they can't abuse their lag and weasel out a tight victory as easy as before lol.
So I'd say go to training mode and REALLY play around with nair. I found a nair drag down combo at 50% that immediately kills the opponent. It wasn't a TRUE combo but I'd say they had 2-3 frames to DI out. Oh and the combos work with any hit of nair except for the last hit.

Leffen has a video on the changes and spends quite a bit of time on Zelda. He kinda loses it when he starts playing with nair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUnyOc6GDqM

You can drag down nair into imagination really. I spent about 2.5 hours playing with it in training mode today. Even worked in quickplay in elite smash tonight. You can nair jab, nair fair, nair grab, nair up b... it's pretty crazy if you land the nair. It's honestly not very difficult when your opponent is really jumpy.

Besides the drag down combos nair is now not just a down throw or uptilt combo. You can throw it out in neutral and if it connects the opponent takes the ENTIRE nair. They will NOT fall out anymore. It pulls opponents in HARD. It felt soooooooooo good when I used it for the first time after the patch went live. It's great for catching jumps etc.
 
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KayaMarley

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#29
Zelda getting buff as been blasting on Twitter and Youtube. Hopefully this shows how much people want Zelda buffed and future patches take note of it. All we need now is a faster grab, old D-tilt and perhaps a weight or bigger Fair/Bair sweetspot/land lag buff.. Maybe even make U-Smash more useful by scooping hitbox. Dins being bigger almost reminds me of Brawl Dins, I wonder how much this buff changed it though, I haven't noticed anything.
woah woah, lets not make her too OP lmao. the up smash is fine, anything more and it will be way too much. Dins fire is pretty ridiculous now, and has a huge range. the other stuff you said though sounds good and fair. I love plying Zelda and want her to be better for sure (within reason of course)
 

stixie

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#30
woah woah, lets not make her too OP lmao. the up smash is fine, anything more and it will be way too much. Dins fire is pretty ridiculous now, and has a huge range. the other stuff you said though sounds good and fair. I love plying Zelda and want her to be better for sure (within reason of course)
LOL!! Yeah I think she's in a pretty great spot right now. The only thing I think she really needs is a faster grab but playing her since patch feels like an entirely different character.
 

Open Spaces

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#31
Greetings Zelda mains I've just joined here and am new to learning Smash on a grander scale. I have been getting some better, but still need to work on my skills. My type of character choices tend to be more obscure and ones that aren't popular with people and a couple weeks ago I looked into using Zelda because she looked appealing to me in this game and I never understood the hate for her online. I mean people say she's universally bad, but then complain about her online? I don't understand.

I also main Bowser Jr and Meta Knight as well. So I was wondering what are some tips for Zelda's kit? And when playing Zelda I feel like I struggle the most against characters like Sheik, Bowser, Yoshi and ZSS, the latter of which I feel helpless against.

I did see Zelda got buffed too, did those buffs make any impact on her?
 

Lacrimosa

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#32
I did see Zelda got buffed too, did those buffs make any impact on her?
Been playing Online with her on a more advanced level (not the highest level but on my way to it, hopefully)

Anyway, the biggest buffs in this patch are the Phantom and the upAir buff.
Phantom having now more knockback is really notable in certain MUs. I think the MU that changed the most because of it is the one against :ultgreninja:. One phantom hit from the early stages have enough knockback to build a 2nd more stronger one and he has to retreat to the ledge pretty frequently and that's where Zelda's really good: Ledgetrapping is now really powerful since upAir catches jumps more effectively now.
This two buffs really make an impact and I'm looking forwards to what the best Zelda player (Still Ven) can do with that since I think most top/high-tier MU became much easier and some are now a win for her ( :ultmario::ultwario::ultrob::ultpichu::ultsnake::ultgnw::ultolimar::ultduckhunt::ultivysaur::ultcharizard::ultpacman:) or became more even-ish (:ultmegaman::ultyounglink::ultlink::ultfox::ultwolf::ultness::ultchrom::ultjoker::ultyoshi:). The latter three may still be losing but there much more doable now.
She still struggles hard against very common characters like :ultpalutena::ultpeach::ultpikachu::ultinkling::ultsquirtle::ultshulk::ultlucina: :ultroy:and especially :ultzss:. ZSS is prebably the only "unwinnable" MU still.

Ftilt buff is also kinda nice now since opponents have to respect that move now. Before it was kinda whatever: You got hit and nothing happened. Thanks to that, this move is a bit more spammable in neutral and makes her gameplan which is around the Phantom much more fleshed out.

Nair is a nice QoL change that was needed. Good tool in advantage but not so much in the neutral. But you have other moves and not every move should be used in neutral.

I think this patch was huge for her and her MU-spread against top-tiers is much less grom now but still not perfect. She also struggles against general fast chars like :ultsonic::ultfalcon: which aren't that uncommon either.
 

stixie

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#33
Greetings Zelda mains I've just joined here and am new to learning Smash on a grander scale. I have been getting some better, but still need to work on my skills. My type of character choices tend to be more obscure and ones that aren't popular with people and a couple weeks ago I looked into using Zelda because she looked appealing to me in this game and I never understood the hate for her online. I mean people say she's universally bad, but then complain about her online? I don't understand.

I also main Bowser Jr and Meta Knight as well. So I was wondering what are some tips for Zelda's kit? And when playing Zelda I feel like I struggle the most against characters like Sheik, Bowser, Yoshi and ZSS, the latter of which I feel helpless against.

I did see Zelda got buffed too, did those buffs make any impact on her?
Everyone plays a bit different but here are my strats with Zelda.

1) Look for grab opportunities. Zelda gets TONS of damage off of grabs. Down throw is your friend. Go into training and get really good at down throw into bair or down throw into nair. Then when the enemy is at about 80ish go for downthrow into up air for really early kills.

2) Don't spam teleport and love. These two moves WILL get you killed if the opponent knows what they're doing. Use love ONLY when the opponent is spamming projectiles or is REALLY ULTRA aggressive in your face (use it just once or twice to remind them that you have the move and they'll usually back off a bit). Also, don't spam fair and bair all the time. Use them when you KNOW they'll hit or as a punish move out of shield. After the nair fix I've found using nair in neutral is WAY better then spamming unsafe fair and bair on someone's shield and then eating a hard punish.

3) Get REALLY REALLY REALLY good at aiming Din's fire. This move is AMAZING after the buffs and will kill someone at around 50-60 off the level if you sweet spot it. VERY good move you need to learn to use.

4) At low percents two up tilts will combo into nair. The new nair fix lets you do drag down nair's into jab or grab. If you do it perfectly you can get a fair off but it's pretty difficult. Go to training and practice drag down nair into combo. You can also drag down nair into dtilt into fair and it works true at low percents. This one if for everyone (all the good Zelda mains). Drag down nair is a thing if you don't hit them with the last hit.

5) Phantom is something you'll just need to get good at using. It's an amazing move that kills ultra early on the ledge now. Learn to b-reverse this as I think this is required to be a good Zelda main. Use Phantom to gain stage control. Set it up at about the half way point as it will cover all the way to the edge. If the opponent has a reflector make sure you note that quickly and punish unsafe reflect attempts. People (like joker) will try to reflect Phantom. Use that opportunity to run up and grab them. Phantom will hit them out of your hand.

6) Backthrow and upthrow kill at higher percents (120%+) though if you get good at downthrow upair you should never need these.

7) Ftilt (after the buffs) kills VERY early (for some crazy reason). During a ledge trap situation if you can ftilt someone's getup they die. This move is also great for spacing people trying to chase you. Run backwards turn around and ftilt.

8) It's not necessary to go off stage to edge guard. Lots of Zeldas love to get fancy and try to spike people but if you're good a Din's fire it's NOT necessary. Also, the Phantom is one of the best ledge trapping moves in the entire game.

9) Learn how to teleport slightly above the ledge. This is done by holding down on the dpad after inputing the original up b. It has to be done with really precise timing but it will pop you above the ledge and hit people standing there. Just make sure to let go of down else you'll fall to your death! LOL

10) Use up air on people standing on the ledge (it kills now after the buffs).

11) Learn her out of shield options and get REALLY REALLY good at using them to punish dumb moves on your shield. This is one of Zelda's BIG strengths and you'll get tons of kills off of punishes.

12) Learn to jab. People forget Zelda's jab but it's VERY quick and punishes little characters (like pikachu).

These are just some pointers that I've put a LOT of practice in while learning this character. Happy Zelda!
 
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Lacrimosa

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#34
Everyone plays a bit different but here are my strats with Zelda.

1) Look for grab opportunities. Zelda gets TONS of damage off of grabs. Down throw is your friend. Go into training and get really good at down throw into bair or down throw into nair. Then when the enemy is at about 80ish go for downthrow into up air for really early kills.

2) Don't spam teleport and love. These two moves WILL get you killed if the opponent knows what they're doing. Use love ONLY when the opponent is spamming projectiles or is REALLY ULTRA aggressive in your face (use it just once or twice to remind them that you have the move and they'll usually back off a bit). Also, don't spam fair and bair all the time. Use them when you KNOW they'll hit or as a punish move out of shield. After the nair fix I've found using nair in neutral is WAY better then spamming unsafe fair and bair on someone's shield and then eating a hard punish.

3) Get REALLY REALLY REALLY good at aiming Din's fire. This move is AMAZING after the buffs and will kill someone at around 50-60 off the level if you sweet spot it. VERY good move you need to learn to use.

4) At low percents two up tilts will combo into nair. The new nair fix lets you do drag down nair's into jab or grab. If you do it perfectly you can get a fair off but it's pretty difficult. Go to training and practice drag down nair into combo. You can also drag down nair into dtilt into fair and it works true at low percents. This one if for everyone (all the good Zelda mains). Drag down nair is a thing if you don't hit them with the last hit.

5) Phantom is something you'll just need to get good at using. It's an amazing move that kills ultra early on the ledge now. Learn to b-reverse this as I think this is required to be a good Zelda main. Use Phantom to gain stage control. Set it up at about the half way point as it will cover all the way to the edge. If the opponent has a reflector make sure you note that quickly and punish unsafe reflect attempts. People (like joker) will try to reflect Phantom. Use that opportunity to run up and grab them. Phantom will hit them out of your hand.

6) Backthrow and upthrow kill at higher percents (120%+) though if you get good at downthrow upair you should never need these.

7) Ftilt (after the buffs) kills VERY early (for some crazy reason). During a ledge trap situation if you can ftilt someone's getup they die. This move is also great for spacing people trying to chase you. Run backwards turn around and ftilt.

8) It's not necessary to go off stage to edge guard. Lots of Zeldas love to get fancy and try to spike people but if you're good a Din's fire it's NOT necessary.

9) Learn how to teleport slightly above the ledge. This is done by holding down on the dpad after inputing the original up b. It has to be done with really precise timing but it will pop you above the ledge and hit people standing there. Just make sure to let go of down else you'll fall to your death! LOL

10) Use up air on people standing on the ledge (it kills now after the buffs).

11) Learn her out of shield options and get REALLY REALLY good at using them to punish dumb moves on your shield. This is one of Zelda's BIG strengths and you'll get tons of kills off of punishes.

These are just some pointers that I've put a LOT of practice in while learning this character. Happy Zelda!
One thing to add: Even if you have a losing streak (you'll probably inevitably have one with her), try to get past it, especially against chars that are difficult for her. Even after the buffs she's still nowhere near being perfect but if you have fun with her then stick with her.
She's really fun when you want to play defensively but that also has its drawbacks (like getting camped out by a faster character).
 

KayaMarley

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 26, 2019
Messages
67
#35
Everyone plays a bit different but here are my strats with Zelda.

1) Look for grab opportunities. Zelda gets TONS of damage off of grabs. Down throw is your friend. Go into training and get really good at down throw into bair or down throw into nair. Then when the enemy is at about 80ish go for downthrow into up air for really early kills.

2) Don't spam teleport and love. These two moves WILL get you killed if the opponent knows what they're doing. Use love ONLY when the opponent is spamming projectiles or is REALLY ULTRA aggressive in your face (use it just once or twice to remind them that you have the move and they'll usually back off a bit). Also, don't spam fair and bair all the time. Use them when you KNOW they'll hit or as a punish move out of shield. After the nair fix I've found using nair in neutral is WAY better then spamming unsafe fair and bair on someone's shield and then eating a hard punish.

3) Get REALLY REALLY REALLY good at aiming Din's fire. This move is AMAZING after the buffs and will kill someone at around 50-60 off the level if you sweet spot it. VERY good move you need to learn to use.

4) At low percents two up tilts will combo into nair. The new nair fix lets you do drag down nair's into jab or grab. If you do it perfectly you can get a fair off but it's pretty difficult. Go to training and practice drag down nair into combo. You can also drag down nair into dtilt into fair and it works true at low percents. This one if for everyone (all the good Zelda mains). Drag down nair is a thing if you don't hit them with the last hit.

5) Phantom is something you'll just need to get good at using. It's an amazing move that kills ultra early on the ledge now. Learn to b-reverse this as I think this is required to be a good Zelda main. Use Phantom to gain stage control. Set it up at about the half way point as it will cover all the way to the edge. If the opponent has a reflector make sure you note that quickly and punish unsafe reflect attempts. People (like joker) will try to reflect Phantom. Use that opportunity to run up and grab them. Phantom will hit them out of your hand.

6) Backthrow and upthrow kill at higher percents (120%+) though if you get good at downthrow upair you should never need these.

7) Ftilt (after the buffs) kills VERY early (for some crazy reason). During a ledge trap situation if you can ftilt someone's getup they die. This move is also great for spacing people trying to chase you. Run backwards turn around and ftilt.

8) It's not necessary to go off stage to edge guard. Lots of Zeldas love to get fancy and try to spike people but if you're good a Din's fire it's NOT necessary.

9) Learn how to teleport slightly above the ledge. This is done by holding down on the dpad after inputing the original up b. It has to be done with really precise timing but it will pop you above the ledge and hit people standing there. Just make sure to let go of down else you'll fall to your death! LOL

10) Use up air on people standing on the ledge (it kills now after the buffs).

11) Learn her out of shield options and get REALLY REALLY good at using them to punish dumb moves on your shield. This is one of Zelda's BIG strengths and you'll get tons of kills off of punishes.

These are just some pointers that I've put a LOT of practice in while learning this character. Happy Zelda!
This. It's also good to really get the hang of Zelda's Teleport control. Like you said, don't use it too much (or in my case when fighting my brother, at all, lol). You want to be able to teleport in place, as it can throw off your opponents in the right scenario. and don't be afraid to fight off stage, the teleport makes this easy. A good tactic is to jump off stage, and throw Dins fire and the phantom at the enemy, then teleport back to the ledge and repeat. obviously don't do this too much or you'll get punished, but this can save you for sure if used correctly. I played her a ton, but dropped her after it wasn't going anywhere. I've been having fun with Byleth since she just came out, but I intend to go back to Zelda soon, what with the crazy buffs she's gotten.
 
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