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Welcome to the Maze! A Beginners Pac-Man Guide - (In-depth Apple + Melon Guide Added)

Maple42

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Well, he's definitely better than Mega Man....
And if there's more specific details about the damage, then I would definitely support adding that; despite being impracticable, more knowledge is always good.

Skymin, excellent point ~! Furthermore, it is vital to know how much damage a hydrant can take (nicely explained in the OP, if you're interested); the reason the hydrant goes flying after back air is because it does 11%, exactly enough to launch it. It's important to remember if your opponent hits it, so you can know if you can launch it with a different attack with less damage.
 

Xeynid

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The hydrant requires 12% damage, which the BAir will occasionally do... seemingly-randomly (I can find a sour-spot, but the sweet spot seems to be... more difficult). Most of the time, back air only does 11% though, and won't send the hydrant flying (on that one hit alone).
 

Skymin50

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Where is the sweetspot? I seem to be unable to find it.
I'm not too positive. Let me jump into the lab for a bit, I'll go try that out.

EDIT: BAir seems to me random but it almost gurantees that next hit will send it flying so I guess there's that. I know I've done it before.
 
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Skymin50

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Have I said this before, too? Bonus Fruit has a bit of float attatched to it - do it at the peak of your jump and you can get a bit of extra safety height.
 

Nu~

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Galaxian and the bell are definitely my favorites. You can do so much with the galaxian after throwing it like chasing the opponent afterwards and catching the ship to throw it again. And it has really high priority over other projectiles. The bell is for clutch moments. At high percentage, it feels like pac-man's ko punch lol. Hit the opponent, and smash them out. No one expects it either XD
 

Maple42

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If you asking about a scenario in which you're charging up your neutral B off the ledge, then using side B to get back on, simply spot-dodge in the air to cancel the charge. However, be wary, since it may not kick in for a second, so make sure you're at a safe distance horizontally!
 
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Blaise

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The way to guarantee a bair after the hydrant drop is to do a full jump, drop the hydrant at the peak of the jump, then hit it with a dair or a last second nair on the way down. Nairing is definitely the fastest option but you gotta do it super close to the top of the hydrant.
 
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Xeynid

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The way to guarantee a bair after the hydrant drop is to do a full jump, drop the hydrant at the peak of the jump, then hit it with a dair or a last second nair on the way down. Nairing is definitely the fastest option but you gotta do it super close to the top of the hydrant.
Could you make a video of that? I can't do it right apparently.
 

Blaise

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Can't make a video. Just time the nair reeeally late, almost like you're using the A button to do an L-cancel.
 

AGES

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Galaxian and the bell are definitely my favorites. You can do so much with the galaxian after throwing it like chasing the opponent afterwards and catching the ship to throw it again. And it has really high priority over other projectiles. The bell is for clutch moments. At high percentage, it feels like pac-man's ko punch lol. Hit the opponent, and smash them out. No one expects it either XD
Galaxian seems like it has a lot of potential, I didn't like it at first but after seeing some more footage of it, I think it really is useful and I just need to mess with it a bit more; been mostly focusing on the apple and key. Not quite as fond of the bell though, the angle is too weird and short rage and when it does hit it feels like it juuuuuust doesn't stun quite enough, even at high percent. But then again, same with Galaxian I might need to just play with it a bit more lol.
The way to guarantee a bair after the hydrant drop is to do a full jump, drop the hydrant at the peak of the jump, then hit it with a dair or a last second nair on the way down. Nairing is definitely the fastest option but you gotta do it super close to the top of the hydrant.
Easiest way to time the nair is to do a shorthop fair, drop the hydrant on the way down, and you'll have just enough time to get a nair on the hydrant.

And heres a video of the falling nair, doesn't have the fair before it but eh should give you a good idea http://youtu.be/H62WUC2eHPo?t=5m25s
 

Skymin50

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So how's everyone doing on For Glory with Pac-Man? I'm having fun with him.
 
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Camalange

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I didn't see it in the main post, and my bad if it was shared, but I noticed you can end Pac's dair early on platforms. Been practicing it on platforms on BF by holding down and dairing at a certain height onto platforms. It doesn't cancel lag, just makes him land. Gonna see if other characters with similar dairs can do it too.

Another thing to note about Pac is that like his dash attack, his Usmash has little to no cooldown.

Is there a way to control or determine when a fire hydrant will shoot water from the top or the sides?

I like this write-up a lot though. Really great thread.
Oh man, Bell is OP. Did an amazing team combo by having my partner grab someone, I threw bell just in time as they were released, then ran > usmash. Hype.

I haven't lost any of my For Glory matches yet, including matches with Pac. Really loving his playstyle. Him, Robin, Lucina, and Bowser... Junior, are my favorite newcomers so far.

:093:
 

AGES

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Is there a way to control or determine when a fire hydrant will shoot water from the top or the sides?
Its determined by where pac's standing right before it shoots water. on top of the hydrant means it shoots upward, off the hydrant it shoots from the sides
 

Camalange

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Its determined by where pac's standing right before it shoots water. on top of the hydrant means it shoots upward, off the hydrant it shoots from the sides
That's what I thought too but I couldn't seem to get it consistent. Are there other variables it factors?

I'l keep experimenting.

:093:
 

ScubaF_ingSteve

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My bread and butter right now is downthrow-dash attack-nair at lower percents. The fact that dash attack has no ending lag, you can just go into any aerial or dash back grab or just a bunch of options, since it's safe on shield if you time it right to not get shield grabbed. I also love using side-b to cross up. I am wondering what you guys think of the custom moves? I'm trying to unlock them all now. Also key out of shield or reading a roll is godlike. Having a kill move out of shield is incredible.
 
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AGES

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That's what I thought too but I couldn't seem to get it consistent. Are there other variables it factors?

I'l keep experimenting.

:093:
It wont be determined what direction until you see the little water sprinkling out of the hydrant, at that point no matter where pac stands the water will shoot that direction. As far as im concerned theres nothing else that determines it
 

Maple42

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There has been talk about whether Customs should be legal for tournaments or not; despite this, we should test out the viability of all the tools given to us. If someone would like to add their conclusions in addition to mine, that would be superb. I find the most efficient way to unlock Customs is Trophy Run for 2:30. Anyways ~

Freaky Fruit
The name gave me hope that it would allow for greater use of the fruit; unfortunately, I was sorely disappointed. The Fruit move erratically as per the attack's name, but it doesn't do much to increase its offensive capability; it does, however, increase the zoning abilities it provides. This move would have merit if not for the nerfs it creates for the non-fruit weapons; Galaxion flies forward much like the key does, so it doesn't have juggling capabilities; Bell travels forward, then upwards (the range is extremely feeble); and, the final nail in the coffin, the Key, if thrown, travels no distance whatsoever, and its damage is 10% rather than 15%. The cons are too great to even consider the pros. The name is aptly put, considering we should never see it.

Slow Bonus Fruit
The merit of this move is double-edged; the fruit can be used to defend, but for not much else. Simply, it decreases the offensive capabilities of the fruit.

______________

Distant Power Pellet
DPP feels as though it was intended to be used as an offensive move; the malleable paths offer more space to combo off. Furthermore, it increases our capability to recover from ridiculously far away.
Despite these pros, I have two bones to pick with this move: it shouldn't be used as an attack, and we should be able to recover from anywhere vertically. This first point is that the move is easily punishable, and nullifies tons of zoning work. The second point is that Final Destination has a sweet spot on the ledge, so even if you end up under the stage after a regular Power Pellet, the trampoline should be able to save you.
DPP has a lot going for it, and if we evolve from a zoning game to a combo game, it could be handy; as for the moment, it doesn't fit the bill for what we need.

Enticing Power Pellet
Furthering the trend, EPP seems to change Power Pellet from a recovery move to a full out attack; it forces the opponent to come closer, and if the entire move hits, a whopping 19% is the result. However, I feel the same way about this move as Distant Power Pellet: PP is currently a move in which should solely be used for recovery, and weapon-izing the move is incorrect for our correct meta. Finally, with the combined sluggishness of the move and less of a trajectory, it fails to synergize with trampoline to create reliable recovery from everywhere under the stage.

______________

Power Pac-Jump
This is an immediate trade-off between the original move's zoning power for a more reliable recovery option. Coming back from the bottom of the stage isn't an issue when combined with the already immense ability of Power Pellet, so the loss of the second and subsequent third jump isn't dreadful.
What the designer of this move seemed to have in mind is that Pac-Man would be far enough under the stage so that it would need the extra vertical jump from the third trampoline, and the opponent would try and steal a kill by jumping and breaking the third trampoline. This thinking is flawed, because this scenario is exceedingly rare, since Power Pellet should get you close enough to the ledge (or its sweet spot), so even the second jump wouldn't be needed, and that if the opponent were in a position to take your third jump, surely there would be another way to knock you off the stage rather than a gimmicky loophole.

As mentioned before, it takes away the zoning capability of the original; no longer lingering, the move is outclassed in every way by the original due to the reasons mentioned above.

Meteor Trampoline
Like Power Pac-Jump, the designer of this move seems to have this idea that the opponent will see us coming up from the second trampoline jump and think they can get a gimmicky kill; unlike Power Pac-Jump, however, this move retains the trampoline after its been used. Therefore, it can be used as a zoning tool like the original ~! Outlined in the OP, it can be used in combination with the Hydrant to force your opponent to play by your script, which is always favorable. The only difference in this move, then, is that you don't have a third jump, and it punishes your opponent for thinking they can jump on the trampoline if its red.
The first difference is negligible; again, the third jump (and to an extent, the second jump) shouldn't be needed if used in conjunction with the Power Pellet. That means this move, the first time you use it, will be better than the original. After that, the opponent will be forced to jump over it, giving them only one option. For the reasons mentioned, Meteor Trampoline should be used over the original.

______________

Flame Hydrant and Exploding Hydrant
I group these two together because they are essentially the same thing, and share the same flaws: making the Hydrant a weapon. Unlike the original Hydrant, you can no longer Hydrant Dash, and instead, you are given pure damage; this alone is reason not to use either of these customs. There are many more cons, but they are not worth mentioning in light of the glaring problem that is at the basis of both of these moves' designs.

______________

Phew ~! That was quite lengthy. I apologize for creating the second text block since I've arrived, but analysis cannot be ignored ~! It is my hope that we can grasp the moment provided to us in the early days of this new metagame to better understand this unique character.
 
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Skymin50

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Okay, I'll add my two cents to these.

B customs:
Freaky Key does a spike, doesn't it? Good for offstage play, and I think some of the others are nice. Might be good for messing around with other players' expectations.

And while Slow is for defensive - Galaxian is probably the best fruit of the bunch. It circles around about 8 times (?) and it can be good for racking up percentage or eating shields. Even if they dodge, you can just grab it again and throw it, or just use a regular move to do that.

Side-B Customs:

DPP looks appealing, but it loses kill status and that hurts it as a whole. Side-B is a GREAT kill move and giving that up for more distance is kind of bad on it's own. You don't really need ALL that distance anyway.

EPP looks...interesting. I've played around with it and I don't know how early it might kill. You say that PP should be used only for recovery. It's a huge part of it - but it's a great knockback move and a great KO move. This might be a good choice. I'm reaaaally unsure if it is or not, but..hey. Not the worst in the world. Maybe someone can find a use for it?

Up-B customs:

PPJ is kind of bad for zoning - so I think it should only be used for certain match-ups. It's good for dealing damage and -maybe- doing combos, because I can see dash attack - sair - nair - up+b being good for percentage. I'll go play with it in the lab later.

Meteor Trampoline is good. But it really shouldn't be considered the 100% choice over regular trampoline, as that thing's AMAZING for recovery. I'm not saying it's bad, because it's probably one of Pac's best custom choices, and up against a Mac it can be brutal, but it kind of ****s over recovery. It's not bad at all for zoning, and has lots of uses.

Down-B customs:

You can still hydrant dash with fire one, just not as reliably. However, it stops opponents from knocking it into you more quickly, which is kind of interesting. I can see it having some potential, possibly good edge-guarding?

Exploding Plug had so much potential. I wish it was good, it really blew to see it not even kill and just be a waste of a custom.
 

DrakeRowan

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I wouldn't write off the On-Fire Hydrant Custom. It limits aerial approaches on platform stages much better than regular hydrant does, imo. Just slap it down on one of battlefields far end platforms and watch the damage come in.
 

Maple42

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The main difference between the two is simply On-Fire Hydrant does chip damage, and Hydrant makes Down and Side Smash viable. The reason I use Hydrant is not because On-Fire is bad, it's just that having the launch ability of the mentioned Smashes is more of a priority than chip damage, a property in which we have an abundance in already.
 

DasPoof

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In my many games with Pac-Man, I find it hard to beat Palutena. Her counter always seems to change to flow of the game, for me. If anyone has any tips they could share with me that would be great.
 

Skymin50

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In my many games with Pac-Man, I find it hard to beat Palutena. Her counter always seems to change to flow of the game, for me. If anyone has any tips they could share with me that would be great.
Watch out for that counter, then. Keep your distance from her - Pac-Man is a zoner and you might just want to keep away with your hydrant.

Watch out for reflect, too. You don't want to whack a key at her only to have it hit you back in the face. Not fun.
 

DasPoof

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Watch out for that counter, then. Keep your distance from her - Pac-Man is a zoner and you might just want to keep away with your hydrant.

Watch out for reflect, too. You don't want to whack a key at her only to have it hit you back in the face. Not fun.
Thank you! I will keep that in mind after I face her again.
 

Skymin50

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Thank you! I will keep that in mind after I face her again.
No problem! I haven't faced too many Palutenas as Pac-Man myself (I tend to switch to Mario or similar if possible) but you can beat her. It's really troublesome, but just watch out. Dodging is your best friend - so is your Side-B's super armor. Try to pass through her and her moves with it. I believe the armor hits right when you eat the pellet - so try to aim it then.

Good luck!
 

CornFlakes

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Liking Pac. Despite the ending lag on side B I think it can be used as a very potent offensive tool.
 

CornFlakes

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Side-B is one of his best moves. Lag hurts it for sure but it's a good KO and recovery move.
I really want to unlock EPP so I can test it out. 19% damage is pretty damn good.
I guess my biggest gripe with Pac so far is that I can't seem to figure out any good combos for him that aren't dash attack into aerial.
 

DasPoof

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Side-B is one of his best moves. Lag hurts it for sure but it's a good KO and recovery move.
I normally use Side-B as a KO move when my opponent is trying to recover. It feels so good when you chomp them for the final kill.
 

Skymin50

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I really want to unlock EPP so I can test it out. 19% damage is pretty damn good.
I guess my biggest gripe with Pac so far is that I can't seem to figure out any good combos for him that aren't dash attack into aerial.
EPP is..odd. It's interesting, and it does have good knockback, but I'm unsure if it's good because it's so slow. I like it a lot, though.

Yeah, Pac-Man doesn't feel too combo-y. This video has some interesting maybe combos, unsure, but they look interesting.


I normally use Side-B as a KO move when my opponent is trying to recover. It feels so good when you chomp them for the final kill.
That's a good idea too. Faking your opponent out is good too (just looping it around) as it can give you some space.[/media]
 
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devo_

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EPP is..odd. It's interesting, and it does have good knockback, but I'm unsure if it's good because it's so slow. I like it a lot, though.

Yeah, Pac-Man doesn't feel too combo-y. This video has some interesting maybe combos, unsure, but they look interesting.



That's a good idea too. Faking your opponent out is good too (just looping it around) as it can give you some space.[/media]
He doesn't have the best combo game, but if you can land an utilt at low percents, you can follow it up with at least 2 more up tilts then a uair.
 

ptrk83

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Galaxian is hard to hit with I feel. Maybe there is a set up or Semi guaranteed set up we can find
 

OracleFish

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Liking pacman so far. Matchups I'm having issues with are Bowser, Zero Suit (she's so fast and combo-y!), and Pikachu (I can't handle the neutral b when they spam it)
 
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