Welcome to the #AssistAlliance: AT and Spirit Character Promotion Discussion (What Does Pass 2 Mean for Spirits or Assists?)

[NintenRob]

Well I just got widly depressed lmao. Just searched "Assist Alliance" on smashboards and just found several posts of people declaring us dead and or misinterpreting our goals. No we're not dead, we just see Twitter as a more viable location to promote then smashboards. lol Still, it hurt to see us brushed off THAT relentlessly in a couple comments.

First parties in general have been brushed aside as if they're worthless. And this seriously pains me.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

First parties in general have been brushed aside as if they're worthless. And this seriously pains me.

Exactly this. While third party additions are really cool, the core and foundation of Smash is built on Nintendo owned content

 

[fogbadge]

First parties in general have been brushed aside as if they're worthless. And this seriously pains me.

you and me both

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

The only reason people parade around about "no first parties" is because most of them are spirits.

Which CAN be removed and even changed. It is not like they will never happen.

 

[fogbadge]

The only reason people parade around about "no first parties" is because most of them are spirits.

Which CAN be removed and even changed. It is not like they will never happen.

the spirits deconfirm thing just confuses me at this point

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

the spirits deconfirm thing just confuses me at this point

People do not believe that a character can use alternate artwork or battles can be removed if that character is playable.

It’s easy to explain why and how it can be changed. Just that people are too stubborn.

 

[fogbadge]

People do not believe that a character can use alternate artwork or battles can be removed if that character is playable.

It’s easy to explain why and how it can be changed. Just that people are too stubborn.

just another fan rule in need of disproving

 

[Cyborg Sun]

Obviously, for characters that are already spirits they can just use alternate artwork (or even just the Smash artwork if there really is no other option). I'm... not too keen on outright removing the original, though. Sure, it might seem odd to see Ashley fighting her own Spirit, but at the end of the day, I want DLC to feel like an add-on rather than a replacement for something already in the base game. As for Assist Trophies, I feel that can be a pretty simple workaround: just don't spawn the assist character if that character is in play (with the exception of Spirit Battles that force a specific assist onto the stage).

I'm probably not the first one to present those ideas, though. However, I think I have something truly new to offer... Now, bear in mind, this idea is a little... out there. But, fitting with the previous idea of "don't spawn the assist character if that character is in play", what if in the second season they introduce an update that brings back previous Assist Trophies that were already promoted? I'm talking Isabelle, Dark Samus, Little Mac, etc. But here's the best part... in that same update, they create new Assist Trophies for other veterans as well! Maybe, like, a Mario that acts more like his traditional games by stomping on your opponents. Obviously, this update would have to be introduced after an assist has been promoted to full-on playable character.

Like I said, my idea is pretty wild, but maybe someone here will appreciate this...

 

[Lenidem]

Obviously, for characters that are already spirits they can just use alternate artwork (or even just the Smash artwork if there really is no other option). I'm... not too keen on outright removing the original, though. Sure, it might seem odd to see Ashley fighting her own Spirit, but at the end of the day, I want DLC to feel like an add-on rather than a replacement for something already in the base game. As for Assist Trophies, I feel that can be a pretty simple workaround: just don't spawn the assist character if that character is in play (with the exception of Spirit Battles that force a specific assist onto the stage).

I'm probably not the first one to present those ideas, though. However, I think I have something truly new to offer... Now, bear in mind, this idea is a little... out there. But, fitting with the previous idea of "don't spawn the assist character if that character is in play", what if in the second season they introduce an update that brings back previous Assist Trophies that were already promoted? I'm talking Isabelle, Dark Samus, Little Mac, etc. But here's the best part... in that same update, they create new Assist Trophies for other veterans as well! Maybe, like, a Mario that acts more like his traditional games by stomping on your opponents. Obviously, this update would have to be introduced after an assist has been promoted to full-on playable character.

Like I said, my idea is pretty wild, but maybe someone here will appreciate this...

That... could actually be very fun! But I don't think it would be worth the workload. Better add non-playable characters to broaden the representation.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I wonder when this post-pass DLC was being planned? If Hero was meant to be a base game fighter, that means they REALLY had no chance to acknowledge the backlash against any deconfirmations.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Obviously, for characters that are already spirits they can just use alternate artwork (or even just the Smash artwork if there really is no other option). I'm... not too keen on outright removing the original, though. Sure, it might seem odd to see Ashley fighting her own Spirit, but at the end of the day, I want DLC to feel like an add-on rather than a replacement for something already in the base game. As for Assist Trophies, I feel that can be a pretty simple workaround: just don't spawn the assist character if that character is in play (with the exception of Spirit Battles that force a specific assist onto the stage).

I'm probably not the first one to present those ideas, though. However, I think I have something truly new to offer... Now, bear in mind, this idea is a little... out there. But, fitting with the previous idea of "don't spawn the assist character if that character is in play", what if in the second season they introduce an update that brings back previous Assist Trophies that were already promoted? I'm talking Isabelle, Dark Samus, Little Mac, etc. But here's the best part... in that same update, they create new Assist Trophies for other veterans as well! Maybe, like, a Mario that acts more like his traditional games by stomping on your opponents. Obviously, this update would have to be introduced after an assist has been promoted to full-on playable character.

Like I said, my idea is pretty wild, but maybe someone here will appreciate this...

That's frankly an amazing idea, it lends itself to some very creative applications, could improve representation for many franchises (especially the ones with more incarnations) and would kill the notion of ATs being just consolation prizes.

 

[tbuster766]

I wonder when this post-pass DLC was being planned? If Hero was meant to be a base game fighter, that means they REALLY had no chance to acknowledge the backlash against any deconfirmations.

Hmm well I personally don't think they didn't have a chance to acknowledge the backlash (after all Sakurai did reference the backlash in a way on twitter no less), whether Hero was decided as base or not. Sure you may go by said rumor, but we also have to consider how there's also PolarPanda 's source that the possibility of a second pass was up in the airs at the time and depended on how well the first did. And it did considering we are getting more dlc after the fighter pass itself.

 

[ErenJager]

Why I subscribe to the idea that existing representation in smash deconfirms a characters possible inclusion as a playable fighter.
Ever since last years Video Game Awards Reggie said the DLC would be entirely new to Smash just like Joker from Persona 5.
At the time many people tried to discount this as just "corporate talk" and not to be taken literal.
As it turns out, it was very exact and exactly as Reggie described, every DLC fighter was entirely new to Smash, right down to their series/ franchise not even appearing in any way shape or form.
Reggie had some ambitious statements saying "dare I say the largest crossover in entertainment" to which the host pointed out the Russo's may have something to say about that. Clearly to some degree Nintendo has an ambition to hold some sort of title or record for a crossover.
Fast forward to Sakurai's direct with Banjo he was talking about being excited about doing as many collaborations as possible. Some other sentiments included introducing "as many new game worlds" as possible. Yes, some have pointed out that this is a translators choice, and not exactly what Sakurai said. However keep in mind, it is still an official translation done by NINTENDO, so it still may mean something. I think it does.
I believe once a series is represented in smash with music, spirits, AT's, or a playable character it counts as being apart of the crossover, so I don't believe Nintendo/ Sakurai would double down on a pre-existing series within Smash when they could put something entirely new to series, therefore increasing its overall crossover number/ record.
I'm not saying this is 100% this is just the impression I've gathered from the official sources and trend of the DLC thus far. It's also easier to get third parties to play ball with DLC because the profit margins are easier to split, then an inclusion in base game. This could not be accurate at all, it's just an impression backed by current trend. The next DLC could in fact end up being an existing spirit, I just believe it likely wont be.

 

[BravadoMan_13]

It is really unfortunate that 1st party characters are being pushed to the side as people are starting to expect more 3rd party content. The only ones in the Fighters Pass that are basically Nintendo related and closest thing to 1st party are Banjo & Kazooie. I know legally they are 3rd party, but to me they will always be 1st/2nd party characters that is actually a part of Nintendo's history being they are N64 flagship characters. And they are beloved because many people, including myself, grew up with them in the N64 era and lots of people, including former Rare developers, think they belong with Nintendo.

I for one believe that 1st party characters can still bring in the hype for the community. I hope that we can at least one or two of them in the future DLC. I do have four characters in my top 10 that are ATs currently (Waluigi, Isaac, Knuckles, Samurai Goroh) plus I love to see Krystal, Dillion, Saki, Takamaru, and Shadow get a chance to have the time in the battlefield. Count me in with the Assist Alliance.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Why I subscribe to the idea that existing representation in smash deconfirms a characters possible inclusion as a playable fighter.
Ever since last years Video Game Awards Reggie said the DLC would be entirely new to Smash just like Joker from Persona 5.
At the time many people tried to discount this as just "corporate talk" and not to be taken literal.
As it turns out, it was very exact and exactly as Reggie described, every DLC fighter was entirely new to Smash, right down to their series/ franchise not even appearing in any way shape or form.
Reggie had some ambitious statements saying "dare I say the largest crossover in entertainment" to which the host pointed out the Russo's may have something to say about that. Clearly to some degree Nintendo has an ambition to hold some sort of title or record for a crossover.
Fast forward to Sakurai's direct with Banjo he was talking about being excited about doing as many collaborations as possible. Some other sentiments included introducing "as many new game worlds" as possible. Yes, some have pointed out that this is a translators choice, and not exactly what Sakurai said. However keep in mind, it is still an official translation done by NINTENDO, so it still may mean something. I think it does.
I believe once a series is represented in smash with music, spirits, AT's, or a playable character it counts as being apart of the crossover, so I don't believe Nintendo/ Sakurai would double down on a pre-existing series within Smash when they could put something entirely new to series, therefore increasing its overall crossover number/ record.
I'm not saying this is 100% this is just the impression I've gathered from the official sources and trend of the DLC thus far. It's also easier to get third parties to play ball with DLC because the profit margins are easier to split, then an inclusion in base game. This could not be accurate at all, it's just an impression backed by current trend. The next DLC could in fact end up being an existing spirit, I just believe it likely wont be.

I still don't see how that necessary "deconfirms" characters that are already represented. While it's a likely possibility it could be the case for most of the DLC, he never once stated that every single upcoming DLC fighter would follow this trend. He also mentioned he wants to "satisfy fans" so a highly demanded character in AT and spirit states can still happen. We're in uncharted waters now so any possibility can happen. Believe what you want but us fans of AT/spirit character are still supporting and demanding our characters in Smash no matter the circumstance.

 

[ErenJager]

I still don't see how that necessary "deconfirms" characters that are already represented. While it's a likely possibility it could be the case for most of the DLC, he never once stated that every single upcoming DLC fighter would follow this trend. He also mentioned he wants to "satisfy fans" so a highly demanded character in AT and spirit states can still happen. We're in uncharted waters now so any possibility can happen. Believe what you want but us fans of AT/spirit character are still supporting and demanding our characters in Smash no matter the circumstance.

IF the goal is to have as many and the highest amount of crossovers in a video game, then doubling down on existing series within Smash wouldn't increase the over all number of crossovers. Therefore new series to smash would take priority to get the crossover numbers up. I explained this, but it's completely hypothetical on the premise that this is the direction/ angle Nintendo/ Sakurai are taking. Which it could be based off the trend of established DLC plus the comments and sentiments stated in directs.

For clarity
New Series to smash = One more crossover to the grand total.
Existing AT/ Mii/ Spirit becoming playable = No increase in crossover grand total.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

the spirits deconfirm thing just confuses me at this point

Especially after Mewtwo and Lucas got in after being Trophies in 4.

The community has a terrible case of "doesn't count"-itis.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Never forget, we have Final Smash Chrom beating up Playable Chrom

No limits nor consistency to begin with.

 

[Guynamednelson]

the spirits deconfirm thing just confuses me at this point

Spirits stopped making any sense once Joker was added and he came with a Phantom Thieves spirit alongside spirits for its individual members.

 

[Lenidem]

Even before. Spirits are supposed to be non-playable characters trapped into a copy of a playable character. Why not. So Waluigi's spirit was stuck into a copy of Luigi. Ok. But then, how in the world is Waluigi-the-spirit able to summon Waluigi-the-assist during the fight? That makes no sense!

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Ultimately (pun unintended) I think the chances of assist trophies and Pokeball Pokemon depend on how long the DLC goes for.

We've had characters been promoted from game to game like Charizard, Little Mac, Isabelle and Dark Samus so it could happen.

 

[Aetheri]

Seeing PP didnt have a spirit in the base game and knowing the Fighter's Pass was likely decided fairly early on, its reasonable to assume that any character in the Fighter's Pass isn't going to be present in Smash whatsoever. Post-pass is a different story and I feel the assist trophy backlash may have possibly coaxed Sakurai into adfing more fighters as well as adding more worlds into the crossover. Of that's just speculation but clearly 'pleasing the fans' means more than just adding third parties because the devs know that we like Nintendo characters as well as other vg characters.

With all that said we still don't have a proper grasp on their intentions with other dlc fighters as making a bigger crossover can mean just simply having a bigger roster as much as it means franchises crossing over. We'll have to wait to see who the first post-pass fighter is before we can understand (at least to a certain degree) how they are handling dlc going forward.

 

[fogbadge]

Ok we are definitely over thinking the spirits thing now

 

[andree123]

A new brain age title is coming for the Switch, looks like Kawashima's chance to be a fighter is increased.

 

[ivanlerma]

A new brain age title is coming for the Switch, looks like Kawashima's chance to be a fighter is increased.

i wonder how Kawashima can work out as a fighter.

 

[GoodGrief741]

A new brain age title is coming for the Switch, looks like Kawashima's chance to be a fighter is increased.

Would be cool if it got localized.

 

[fogbadge]

ive never felt that the whole relevance thing really mattered in smash, but a new game spreading awareness and possibly popularity should help so kudos to the doc even if its not my kind of series

 

[smashkirby]

A new brain age title is coming for the Switch, looks like Kawashima's chance to be a fighter is increased.

i wonder how Kawashima can work out as a fighter.

I KNOW someone on SB has legit made a Dr. Kawashima for Smash thread. It's somewhere around here. In fact, it was that thread that convinced me that Dr. Kawashima COULD work in Smash, despite my initial belief that he was one of those characters who could NEVER work (and knowing me, that's kind of saying something).

 

[andree123]

I KNOW someone on SB has legit made a Dr. Kawashima for Smash thread. It's somewhere around here. In fact, it was that thread that convinced me that Dr. Kawashima COULD work in Smash, despite my initial belief that he was one of those characters who could NEVER work (and knowing me, that's kind of saying something).

I'm pretty bothered that the creator of Dr. Kawashima's moveset wanted him to have hands, but I like this moveset better other than the missing stuff like the throws.

 

[NintenRob]

Just so everyone knows, Skull Kid supporters are gonna be extra vocal tomorrow, mostly on reddit and gamefaqs. The goal is to start an echo. People will see a lot of Skull Kid topics so they'll want to talk about him themselves.

Come join!

 

[Nazyrus]

Just so everyone knows, Skull Kid supporters are gonna be extra vocal tomorrow, mostly on reddit and gamefaqs. The goal is to start an echo. People will see a lot of Skull Kid topics so they'll want to talk about him themselves.

Come join!

Must be destiny i randomly came here to see what was your latest post here, I will keep an eye around for that!

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Just a heads up, we all been streaming more often lately and usually do so on the anniversary of any character or series we support. Recently, we did one for Advance Wars for two weekends and may move on to Sonic & Knuckles and Fatal Frame Maiden of the Black Water. Feel free to follow us on Twitch.

On a related note, here is a new topic worth discussing. Who do you personally think are the Top 5 Spirits and the Top 5 Assist Trophies worth promoting?

 

[smashkirby]

On a related note, here is a new topic worth discussing. Who do you personally think are the Top 5 Spirits and the Top 5 Assist Trophies worth promoting?

Top 5 Spirits
Bandana Waddle Dee
Dixie Kong
Ray (Custom Robo)
Andy (Wars)
Saki Amamiya

Top 5 Assists
Takamaru
Isaac
Spring Man
Waluigi
Krystal

 

[NintenRob]

Top 5 assists

Skull Kid
Isaac
Waluigi (there are others I'd prefer but he is kinda the mascot)
Ashley
Spring Man

Top 5 spirits

Bandana Waddle Dee
King Boo
Dixie Kong
Rex and Pyra
Kamek

 

[GoodGrief741]

Assists:
Waluigi
Isaac
Bomberman
Spring Man
Ashley

Spirits:
B. Dee
Dixie Kong
Andy
Saki
Ray III

 

[fogbadge]

Let’s see

Spirits:
Toad
Chibi-robo
Rex
Bandana dee
tails

Assist trophies:
Spring man
Skull kid
Midna
Arcade bunny
Sable prince

Lot harder to pick assist trophies than spirits

 

[andree123]

Spirits:
1. Rex
2. Geno
3. Medusa
4. Deiciudeye
5. Chorus Kids

Assist trophies:
1. Waluigi
2. Spring Man
3. Isaac
4. Shadow
5. Alucard

This is listed from highest to lowest chance of becoming a playable, I have a feeling that most of them will happen soon.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Deiciudeye

Only Rowlet is popular in J-I mean a spirit. Yes, a spirit. And remember, Viridi wasn't given a swordfighter costume for the sake of not getting in Medusa's way.

 

[smashkirby]

You know, I came across this Twitter post today...

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I'm not saying it totally holds water, but I find it interesting to think about...

 

[Guynamednelson]

You know, I came across this Twitter post today...

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I'm not saying it totally holds water, but I find it interesting to think about...

I've also thought the same thing about Mii costumes.

inb4 those people who use the Ray costume to pretend they're Optimus Prime/Gundam are accidentally responsible for Ray being promoted