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Weekly SBR Character Discussion: Wolf

gamadaya

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Messages
16
Location
Laurel MD (near Baltimore)
Thing is, Wolf seems to switch between defensive and offensive states. He isn't what I would call a reactive character. Peach, imo, would be reactive(in Brawl at least). Wolf, while he does opperate by baiting and pressuring his opponents, completely switches when they are in range. My strategy with wolf is to not let up once I'm in range, to stay on the opponent and not give them a chance to get out of range again. If they do, I switch back to the strategy of lasering while approaching slowly.
 

snadmonkey

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
216
Location
WV
I main wolf with a few side characters. The first thing i've learned is that being able to edge gaurd with wolf is very effective. Most people expect wolf to just sit on the stage waiting for you, switching it up and sh to dair for a spike, or quick dash fair/bair off stage is so good. Can even Bair at someone falling, if they air dodge u side B back across them and possible downspike. Just make sure u can get back, btw most pople play FD and if u get on the inside of the ledge below it, sometimes seems impossible to recover, don't resist the di, go into stage and wall jump off it. You get a ledge hog, try and footstool em.

I also don't spam laser like many wolfs, though I gotta say I love lasering Ness/lucas when they try to up B etc. He has alot of decent follow ups, my favorite is neutral air/land/shine/fsmash, works most of the time, then do it 2 times or so and do a running grab instead of fsmash or shine. I don't like to play laser game, but I love to Bair sh combos. Ftilt/dtilt are common moves for me, (i suck at utilts) and Fsmash is my punisher, I never try and KO with it so I use it to punish people. For instance if they are close and roll away they still in range of fsmash, also good for those annoying DI away aerilists. Just don't use fsmash if they can shield and grab, especially if they got a tether grab. Wolf's air game is al ot better than people give it credit for, shop shines are so good against those annoying aerial approachers like luigi/MK.

Note, screw any sword user or like that plays Battlefield against wolf. I hate those platforms so much.
 

gamadaya

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Messages
16
Location
Laurel MD (near Baltimore)
Why screw any sword character? Wolf has even more range than they do (maybe not Ike, but I think he does, and he's so fast that I have enough time to react to Ike's smash animation and perform my own smash, even if I didn't see Ike's attack coming before hand).
 

Corner-Trap

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
535
Location
Fayetteville, NC
I think Wolf could either be top or high tier. His ground and aerial game are good, with a great move set overall. Only real weakness he has is his recovery. And if the past top tiers have shown us anything, it's that bad recovery can be made up by good on stage power.
 

Kyd

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
359
Location
Warner Robins, GA
ok i kinda skipped some of the reading for this last page because i was tired of the same things being repeated constantly.

Okay, laser spam =/= great Wolf stratagy, its only a stratagy to stall and camp which is used correctly Wolf is far beyond. run in the with his nair, which upon hitting the ground allows you to go strait into a grab giving you a good few hits due to his amazing grabattack speed, down throw, fsmash. Yes it can be avoided but it is easy to lock in too. Wolf's lasers are good for multi-man game more than one on one, and is good for ledges and characters with better close range hitboxes than him(Lucario).

Wolf's Bair = complete and total destruction on a stick! This is the single best edge guard in his arsenal. It has virtually no lag before the kick and has very good knockback when spaced correctly.

Wolf's recovery, a great controversy. Wolf's recovery deserves a lot more credit than given. first of all, if you get below the stage and must resort into is uspecial, i mourn you. If knocked back from the stage, get your spacing and fspecial into the ledge, keep track of yourself because if you dont grab hit you uspecial or jump so you can grab it.

When the occasion calls for it, scar the ledges on the stages that allow it but DONT SPAM IT! If the opponent is attempting to punish your recovery from very close, scar the stage so you get better field position while the opponent is now the one with his/her back to the ledge.

Wolf has dthrow-chainwall combo ability if you space and time it perfectly. I must say the spacing is about as strict as Fox's wall-shine and the timing is even more strict.

Wolf's shine is amazing. There is slight invincibility in it if your timing is good enough, the reflect speed is 2x(shoot a laser between wolf and Pit and watch the speed jump), and has great distance for damage. I found the shine to be an excellent way to come down on top of the opponent when being knocked in the air and has a good potential to follow up with dsmash.

What i DONT like about Wolf: His fair sux nasty ones. It has a great verticale knockback ability if you manage to land it, failing to land it puts you right in the position to get punished due to the insane lag. His uspecial has no use unless you are directly under a ledge and you cant reach it with fspecial. Avoid these in my opinion and you'll have an awsome Wolf.
 

The Kitchen Sink

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
9
I main Wolf, so some assorted thoughts.

- Wolf has mad, mad spacing. The only thing he doesn't have is "super long range" and hardly any characters do. Like, Pit. However, his blaster covers longish range, and he's a medium-short range fighter for the most part...except for his Fsmash, which demolishes the middle ground very effectively.

- I'm torn about his blaster. Its range just isn't long enough for my likes, but it also has ridiculous priority. I've seriously yet to see a non reflecting attack that so much as cancels it out, though I'm sure a fully charged "Charge Beam" from samus or something of that nature could do it (except, it seems to go right through any other energy projectile in my experience). Very spammable though.

- His blaster basically locks DDD's Waddle Dee Toss in to a stalemate. If you just mash B as DDD mashes Side B, your projectiles will hit the Waddle Dees in midair, basically negating them. I haven't seen what it does to a Gordo though, which might spell trouble.

- The tip of his "Wolf Flash" doesn't always seem to spike, but it is very powerful even if it doesn't...

- The reflector is an awesome counter against jugglers without a sword. It's also awesome in general. It comes out in one frame I believe, just like Fox's and Falco's in Melee, except it doesn't damage in one frame, it instead has a very brief period of invincibility, then one fram afterwards hits. You all knew that, but it's even better IMO; the delay in when it damages is nigh negligible; it still comes out very quickly, and one would be hard pressed to escape the range within that split second where it doesn't hit.

-Recovery isn't that hard. It's definitely subpar, especially what with the new characters with ridiculous ones (Pit, Meta Knight, R.O.B, kinda Dedede, etc). However, as long as you get used to it, you can use it effectively. You're not going to DI onto the ledge if you didn't already hit it with his Up B, and with its lack of different angles it can be hard to do so, but there's an easy solution: Get right under the ledge. Pretty easy to recover this way, and I always juuuuuust manage to make it when I aggressively edgeguard off of the stage, unless I do something stupid.

- I don't know if others have noticed this, but in the air, if you manage to do a Wolf Flash but cancel it either at the start or halfway through, after you end the move, you gain some ridiculous horizontal acceleration/top speed, and wind up getting much farther horizontally than you would with a full Wolf Flash. I'd use it a lot, but it's exceedingly difficult to reliably pull off.

- If you can anticipate it, a Wolf Flash from the ground is a **** good counter to characters that jump towards you, especially from medium range. It's also really good at screwing with people's heads. Few people expect you to go whizzing over their heads and land a fair distance away, out of nowhere. Downside being it has a lot of landing lag, but your distance, if spaced well, reduces much of that threat.

- His blaster is a downright counter to MetaKnight's Tornado special move.
 

Kyd

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
359
Location
Warner Robins, GA
first of all, i understand it is frustrating to land his uB, thats why i fB onto a ledge instead because its afaster and easier and if you dont grab the ledge, you can still jump.

Reflecter is great, thanx for agreeing

blaster into a stalemate with Dedede is common, Fox, Falco, Ivysaur, Pikachu, Lucario, and virtually any projectile character can do it so that proves nothing of Wolf's laser. A side note too, a non-charged Lucario shot and Ivysaur's leaves will kill Wolf's blaster shot.
 

Ookami-kun

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
882
first of all, i understand it is frustrating to land his uB, thats why i fB onto a ledge instead because its afaster and easier and if you dont grab the ledge, you can still jump.

Reflecter is great, thanx for agreeing

blaster into a stalemate with Dedede is common, Fox, Falco, Ivysaur, Pikachu, Lucario, and virtually any projectile character can do it so that proves nothing of Wolf's laser. A side note too, a non-charged Lucario shot and Ivysaur's leaves will kill Wolf's blaster shot.
He'll simply use reflector against other projectile spammers.

Wolf's recovery tactics is like Luigi's - generally use Side B unless vertical range is needed (where his Up B shines).
 

angdia

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
13
read the post right before yours, thats the full explanation.
That's essentially what I was replying to. While I agree with most of your points, I think one or two are wrong, eg. fair doesn't have lag if you use it immediately after jumping, which is very easy to do. If you think I'm wrong, try it out first in game instead of assuming that because you post something, it's right.
 

One_With_Sumthing

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Messages
125
Location
Orange County, CA
That's essentially what I was replying to. While I agree with most of your points, I think one or two are wrong, eg. fair doesn't have lag if you use it immediately after jumping, which is very easy to do. If you think I'm wrong, try it out first in game instead of assuming that because you post something, it's right.
I'm not sure, but I do think that even without the enormous lag originally present following fair, that there's some sort of grabbing that lets you grab the back of your shield? [I think I heard this somewhere, correct me if I'm wrong...] This would invalidate its use even if you use it the second you jump to negate the lag.

As for the last part, I think that it was uncalled for. -.-'
 

angdia

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
13
I'm not sure, but I do think that even without the enormous lag originally present following fair, that there's some sort of grabbing that lets you grab the back of your shield? [I think I heard this somewhere, correct me if I'm wrong...] This would invalidate its use even if you use it the second you jump to negate the lag.

As for the last part, I think that it was uncalled for. -.-'
I'm not sure what you mean by grab the back of your shield. Do you mean grab out of your shield? Either way by the time you hit you should be at the top of your jump, which is too high to be grabbed, and you can avoid the grab (see below). My main point about the fair was that you can move back a large distance after its use, which allows you to get a potential attack in while avoiding most attacks. After trying it again I realized I was wrong about the range you can travel; you can't go forward the distance of the fsmash and backwards in the air, but you can go forwards a small distance and then backwards the distance of an fsmash. The backwards part is more important anyway since the idea is to try to get a hit and avoid taking one, and from my experience it works very well.
 

One_With_Sumthing

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Messages
125
Location
Orange County, CA
I'm not sure what you mean by grab the back of your shield. Do you mean grab out of your shield? Either way by the time you hit you should be at the top of your jump, which is too high to be grabbed, and you can avoid the grab (see below). My main point about the fair was that you can move back a large distance after its use, which allows you to get a potential attack in while avoiding most attacks. After trying it again I realized I was wrong about the range you can travel; you can't go forward the distance of the fsmash and backwards in the air, but you can go forwards a small distance and then backwards the distance of an fsmash. The backwards part is more important anyway since the idea is to try to get a hit and avoid taking one, and from my experience it works very well.
I see nothing below.
What I'm implying is that you can grab wolf after his hit is finished.
I'm not sure if this is true, as was also implied on my previous post.
 

Kyd

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
359
Location
Warner Robins, GA
ill try using fair immediately after a jump when i get home tomorrow, if you're right I'll admit in advance that i was wrong. My problem is the fact that it is close range and the landing kills me because the opponent always has time to get to me before i can act, i typically use nair into a grab(i think i already said this in a previous post).
Also, has anyone tried using Wolf's down throw against a wall, i've noticed it typically holds someone until somewhere between 90% and 110% damage, which you can easily dsmash them. Second opinion(unless someone stated this earlier)
 

dr0go

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
110
Location
san diego, california
wolf is a great character whose problems can be solved with a little practice.

1)to keep your opponent from predicting your moves do not apply the same attack pattern as it will make you predictable causing your opponent to effectively counter the attack pattern you have been applying.some things you can do are:mindgames;try throwing some unexpected moves as to keep your opponent guessing what move you will use next, wait for an opportunity or an opening and use an effective move to KO your opponent.Another thing is to space yourself as to have an opportunity of using the attacks while not being vulnerable to the small ending lag.some examples are Fsmash and Bair.

2)recovery:wolf,s recovery is a recovery that can be easilly gimped thus creating a great disadvantage.To try and correct this disadvantage it is best to use forward B whenever possible to recover.If you find yourself in a situation where it is not convenient, use upB,always go for the ledge since if you land on the stage the lag gives your opponent time to punish this action.when you are under the ledge in a non convenient position, DI directly under the ledge and use the upB in a directly vertical position.This is better for non benificiary stages such as final destination where you can get trapped under the ledge.
his recovery is a little disconvenient but it can be made better with mastering of the technique.
 

dream theater

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
58
wolf is a great character whose problems can be solved with a little practice.

1)to keep your opponent from predicting your moves do not apply the same attack pattern as it will make you predictable causing your opponent to effectively counter the attack pattern you have been applying.some things you can do are:mindgames;try throwing some unexpected moves as to keep your opponent guessing what move you will use next, wait for an opportunity or an opening and use an effective move to KO your opponent.Another thing is to space yourself as to have an opportunity of using the attacks while not being vulnerable to the small ending lag.some examples are Fsmash and Bair.

2)recovery:wolf,s recovery is a recovery that can be easilly gimped thus creating a great disadvantage.To try and correct this disadvantage it is best to use forward B whenever possible to recover.If you find yourself in a situation where it is not convenient, use upB,always go for the ledge since if you land on the stage the lag gives your opponent time to punish this action.when you are under the ledge in a non convenient position, DI directly under the ledge and use the upB in a directly vertical position.This is better for non benificiary stages such as final destination where you can get trapped under the ledge.
his recovery is a little disconvenient but it can be made better with mastering of the technique.

You could make a pattern to make them think that's what you're doing and then change your tactics and catch them off guard eh?
 

dr0go

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
110
Location
san diego, california
That is a good idea as well but the attack pattern should differ for every character you are against as to be effective against that certain character and when your attack pattern gets predictable you change it as to find an opening and catch them off guard.Thanks for the idea i will try it.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
When Wolf randomly fails to catch the ledge with his side-B, he gets his double-jump back. If there were some way to figure out how to make him do this purposefully, it could lead to some interesting tactics. Maybe something similar to grabbing the edge and falling off right away in Melee. (No invincibility, though.)
I figured this out a while ago, actually... if you Side-B at the highest point possible where Wolf will try to catch the edge, he will neither catch the edge or land on the level... this gives the DJ back, as you said, and if you know it's going to happen, you can immediately DJ and Fair or wall jump to Bair... This is hard to get consistently, I won't lie... and the bad part is if someone charges something like an Fsmash and you fake the ledge, you will get hit :(... I wanted to call this illusion dropping, but it might not stick, yah?

Once he's actually hanging on the ledge, you actually have some options... you can tap back, DJ, then use an aerial or dodge onto the level, you can scar the ledge, and you can just regrab, among other things... useful if you can do it well
 

Sesshomuronay

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
1,458
Location
Canada, British Columbia
Wolf is good and kool. I use him and pit and what I like about wolf is his foot and N-air. The blasters good too if you can hit them good like hit them when they go up and when they come down, it can really piss your opponent off. The only problem he has is recovery in my opinion. He has ok kill moves the ones I use are down smash and the b-air.
 

Koop_88

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 12, 2008
Messages
404
Location
Bedford, England
Illusion Dropping, I like it.

Wolf's "Fire Wolf" should only be used below a ledge. The range of UpB is actually doubled for vertical recovery. when used for horizonal recovery it is actually much shorter than SideB. If you learn to distinguish when you are too low to use SideB and when you are too far away to use UpB, Wolf's recovery becomes amazing.

Mastering Wolf's recovery is the key to killing your opponent on low percents. The ability to drive a player of low percent off the ledge of a level to seemingly no return, the ability to get back from any fall, and even reverse an edge guarding situation on your opponent will be what distinguishes top end wolf players from the rest, and is what I believe makes Wolf tournament material.

I will be releasing a video soon with alot of emphasis on Wolf's Edge guarding and Recovery. I intend to convert the non believers, and show how much potential Wolf has in areas many consider inferior to other characters. :)
 

Dexter Morgan

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
106
Location
Miami, Florida
Finally unlocked him. Haha, took me a while. He's so awesome. Anyway, a question:
What's up with his Ftilt? It has freeze frame out the wazoo, but doesn't even do that much. Like the knee of charge shot. What's the point?
 

Loup17

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
84
also, you can catch people in the second hit who move within range, if someone shielded the first hit and then dropped the shield they'll get hit by the second, and if you get just a tipper it won't freeze like that, you'll only get the second hit.

also it makes it look cool.
 

Turbo Ether

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
3,601
Mastering Bayonet Spiking is a must for me. It's like Fox's shine spike in melee, it has a good amount of hit stun and knockbacks a static distance regardless of percent. That means you can gimp most characters at even 0% if they're off the stage.
 

Dexter Morgan

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
106
Location
Miami, Florida
The only problem I have with Wolf is his bad recovery. I hate those "blind spots" where he could easily reach the platform, but directional problems cause him to completely miss it. His recovery would actually be decent if he didn't fall straight down for about 2 seconds after the Fire Wolf. Luckily, Phantasm goes up, so it can be used most of te time. The other big problem is that he's so vulnerable after each of these moves, so unless you grab the edge, it's hard to recover safely, making Wolf one of the easiest opponents to edgeguard against. Believe me, I've played so many Wolfs on WiFi. As soon as they're off the edge, they don't get back up, whether it's edgeguard or edgehog.

And no, it's not just playing... (ugh) scrubs (hate that word), it happens to me too. I've played Wolf enough to know that recovery isn't his forté.
 

Ulevo

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
4,496
Location
Unlimited Blade Works
I have recently began to play as Wolf, despite my original opinion that when Brawl was released I "simply wouldn't be a Wolf kinda guy". But I have been playing with him for a good while now, and he is one of my strongest, so I have some good things to say.

Wolf is an exceptional contender when it comes to his standard melee, with attacks that not only have high knock back for KOs, but that have the option of being damage dealers too. His Standard A Combo allows for solid damage, and is difficult to punish since the third strike extends outwards often pushing Wolf past a shielding opponent awaiting a grab. It's great for pressure, and is awesome when it's Jab Canceled for those extra hits you may want to throw in there. His Dtilt I think is very underused, and disappointingly so. It's quick, it extends far out, and it trips quite often, setting up for Smashes, Dash Attacks, Lasers... His Ftilt is strong as well, and eats the shield away. His Utilt is great for popping characters upwards, and depending upon the %, can lead to multiple Utilts or a Bair/Fair depending where they decide to DI.

His Smashes are just wow. I can't express how good his FSmash is. It has priority, range, power, it's damaging... Anyone who loves to space well will enjoy Wolf for this reason, and anyone believing that rolling works as their sole friend will be punished dearly for this move alone. If the player keeps up a sparatic playstyle, it can even lead to some nice KOs. His USmash is good for damage dealing too, but mainly serves to pop opponents upwards. The first hit of the Smash traps the opponent into the second that sends them upwards, making the hitbox very deceiving. It is also fantastic to surprise players with a Boost Smash with this, and Wolf gets quite the distance. His Down Smash is the king of his KO aresenal, with it having huge speed and knock back. Save this move for the higher percents, wait for a mistake, and I guarantee you won't have trouble taking stock.

Wolfs aerial game is very good, and some of his frowned upon aerial moves are often exceptionally useful given certain circumstances. His Bair has to be one of the best in the game, likely rivaled by only Toon Links and G&W. It comes out ludicrously quick, has awesome KO potential, and can even combo into Standard A's, FTilts, Reflectors, Lasers, FSmashes, DSmashes. I can't stress how useful it is. His Nair is also very useful for stringing his attacks together, and is often the 'forward supplement' to do so in place of the Bair. Anything the Bair could string with, the Nair can too. I think Wolf may also have invincibility frames on his Nair, but I might be seeing things. Don't quote me here. His Uair is often looked at as useless, but on closer inspection it has great speed. It doesn't have overwhelming priority, but it's good for follow ups on characters who may have a slow Dair, or those who may not expect it. Wolfs Fair is great for vertical kills, but isn't something you should be accustom to for damage dealing as it lags to much both in the air and upon landing. Chances are they will not fly far until later percents as well, so you may be hit in retaliation. His Dair is good both on the ground and off the stage. It's spiking ability is top notch and sends characters down very far. It is good for popping characters up too, and can string Smashes and Standard A's at lower percents. Try not to be too careless with it though, and use it early when leaving the stage, as the cool down frames from the attack may cost you a stock if your Up B cannot reach the stage. If it misses, it is also a very easy edge hog against you.

Wolfs Reflector, in my opinion, is likely his best weapon. It has invincibility frames equipped to it, allowing for Wolf to escape from Chain Grabs early, escape from combos, escape death from attacks that would have otherwise been fatal, and even set up combos of his own. This will string in to FSmash, Ftilt, and Standard A like bread and butter, and it is so satisfying too. Use this, abuse it, and abuse it well. His lasers are top notch in priority, despite their lack in distance, and allows for Wolf to camp quite effectively. By doing so, this baits the opponent into having them come in mid range to close quarters, where Wolf excels the most. The knife on the gun is surprisingly useful, and has knock back that will prove useful in order to space your other melee attacks. His Up B is a double edge sword. It is absolutely horrid for recovery if you are not in proper range to grab the ledge horizontally, but it is very good for an alternative for damage dealing, and the kick on the edge has good knock back. It puts pressure on shields, and will push past them like many of Wolfs moves when they would otherwise expect you to use a much shorter range move. Don't go too happy with this though, as it will be easily punished if it isn't used sparingly. His Forward B is really good, and is underestimated by many for a recovery tool. As previously stated, it can be canceled in multiple portions of the attack to give a variety of distances in which Wolf can travel, and has huge horizontal recovery potential when done properly. Also, I would like to point out, as this is something I see almost no Wolf player do, and they definitely should. Edge Popping is a MUST for Wolf with this move. Players will usually attempt to edge hog you, or wait above to counter attack, thinking you will auto cling with your Wolf Flash. If you position yourself properly so that your attack will land on the stage and then hold down after you issue the attack, you will hit them on the way up for some good damage, and get back on the stage safely. I highly recommend this.

As for his throws, I don't have much to note other than the fact that his Down Throw is amazing. The trajectory it sends characters in is very low, and very far. It sets up for easy edge hogs when used by a ledge, as well as RAR'd Bairs and Spikes. Use this effectively if you find your opponent shielding all of your Smash attempts.

Overall, Wolf is a very powerful character that has assets to him most characters would trade an arm and a leg for. He excels in every range of combat excluding extreme long range, and can effectively combat those with his awesome reflector. Once opponents are in his quarters, very few of the cast can outmatch him and his damage dealing, shield pressuring moves. The only thing stopping this beast is his recovery, and even that can be solved with good accuracy and smart play. He will be High Tier for sure.
 

PKboy89

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
470
Location
Tuckahoe, don't say anything...lol
I think Wolf has awesome ground game. His AAA combo is amazing...its fast, you can't get out of it, does decent damage and knockback, and has decent range. Everyone has already said all the good things about his fsmash, so I won't anything, but out of all the spacies, I love this reflector the best. Besides from Falco kicking his reflector out, Wolf's shine gets good range, since the very first split second seems to spread out kinda far, so you can do a lot more with the Wolf shine rather then Fox's, and you can activate pretty fast on the ground, so its a good unexpected move to throw in every once in awhile. Killing is a problem, but his dsmash is a great killing move, its really fast and hits both sides, and its not hard at all to hit with a tip, so its easy to trick opponents onto your other side and tip them. His upsmash is a good killer to, but I find it hard to hit with it, and its not that great to use if someone is in the air since he swings his legs to the sides first.
 

ArcPoint

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
1,183
Location
NorCal, California.
I really can't predict as to where Wolf will be in the future, but now he's low high tier to high mid tier.

I think that as the metagame evolves there will be ways to mix up Wolf's recovery (Illusion cancelling) and that Wolf players will simply become better at recovering, avoid gimps, ect ect. I also think that as the game progresses, new Wolf strategies will be developed so that he isn't played one-dimensionally, people are already coming up with great strategies for a multitude of things (Wall of Wolf for example)

Another thing I hope as the game progresses... more strategies for edgeguarding, when I play Wolf, I edgeguard a LOT, and my main move for this is Bair, it is extremely effective when you predict their DI, the majority of my kills are from Bair edgeguarding, and Dsmash.

The main reason I like Wolf right now is because of his versetality (However you spell that), I do not think he has a one dimensional playstyle, a Wolf player can have a complex balance between defensive and offensive play, Wolf is very good at approaching people with his Bair, simply because you can mix it up SO MUCH, and he limits his opponents options for approaching because of Fsmash and Lazarzzz.

Wolf's main concern off the edge is not people attacking you while you're off the edge, the main concern is EDGEHOGGING. This is very effective against Wolf due to his recovery options. Although, time it wrong and you lose your invincibility frames... then Wolf's Side B is an INSTANT spike. VERY helpful.

Though, most of the time when I have been edgehogged; I could have recovered onto the stage instead of the ledge. If you can learn to predict when they will edgehog, you can DI correctly and recover on the stage instead of going for the ledge. Also when people learn to Illusion cancel more reliably.... you can get a lot more distance from the side B recovery PLUS less lag. And if all else fails, time it right, do an UpB and you can get them on the last hit, and get back onto the ledge and scar or do whatever.

Anyway, just my two cents, no weight attached.
 

BanKai029

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
38
Location
Pwnville
Well i just picked up wolf not too long ago, I think hes a great character to use. Very well balanced and i feel he has amazing killing ability. though its not his best killing move i like to use his Up smash, great move specially when you boost or just run at them.
 

DarkLouis331

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
1,502
He does seem to be stuck with a worse recovery than most, though Fox's recovery seemed easy to edgeguard too in Melee and it didn't end up hurting him all that much. Still in this game one edgeguard can make or break a match right now (hence why I lose many matches with Olimar where otherwise I would have dominated).

I have been playing more and more of him lately. He does have a good spacing game. I enjoyed watching Germ's Wolf quite a bit. His dash attack links nicely into a couple things. His moves seem to destroy shields faster, though this is entirely subjective. Killing can be a big problem. In Germ's vid vs Snake he could barely kill him before 200%. The fair seems like Mewtwo's fair from Melee.

The gun is way better than it looks. Can't explain why.

No other thoughts for now, I'm still learning quite a bit.
Yeah, I noticed too that I had a hard time killing Snake at a tournament today. He was at around 200% when I finally killed him...I lost that match btw :p
 

Takua1

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
12
Location
Atlanta, GA
NNID
keattz
3DS FC
4682-8726-4214
In summary, I think that Wolf is considered worse than he should be because his ground game is quite different from his air game.

I've noticed that most people in this thread who believe that Wolf's metagame is poor and will continue to degrade are talking about grounded Wolf's, as opposed to aerial Wolf's. Wolf does have some good smashes and tilts, but they're fairly easily predictable and punishable. Wolf has some great aerials, especially his 0-lag fair and his spammable bair, but one thing that's great is the combination of both of these games. He can knock your opponents up with usmashes, utilts, and 0-lag fairs, then attack them in the air with any of your aerials, and knock them back down with dair, usually giving you enough time to prepare for another smash for when they're done recovering. Wolf doesn't have too many "combos", but he can still excel at offensive play.

In regard to his defensive play, his blaster is great for spacing, his fsmash travels far, and his ftilt has great range. Once you have your opponent struggling with these moves, you can bait them into jumping over your lasers and then hit them with a sideb. Also, reflector is GREAT for countering moves. Throw it up right before an attack is about to connect with you and you'll hurt them, rather than be hurt yourself.

...And Wolf's recovery. Of course, he has upb and sideb. I only use upb in two situation. (1) When I'm too far from the edge to grab it, but if I use sideb I'll land on the stage and likely be hurt while I wait for the lag, and (2) when I've fallen too far to use sideb (when I'm below the stage). Sideb is obviously my main means of recovery. You can semi-scar the stage to go through the edge, or just grab the edge. This created a recovery game. If your opponent tries to edgehog you, semi-scar and you'll be on stage. If your opponent is waiting at the edge, semi-scar and you'll sweet spot them. If your opponent is waiting for you to semi-scar, preparing to counter attack, don't semi-scar.
 

OmegaXF

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Messages
936
Location
Detroit Michigan
Wolf is my favorite matchup for ROB. Of all the space animals, he is the easiest to gimp. I suggest watching the online tournament's grand finals between me and yayuhzz to see what I mean >_>


Also, Wolf cna short hop his fair with 0 lag if timed properly. This gives him a 0 lag aerial on both sides of him, giving him the ability to actively pressure shields (use that shine!)


Are there any special properties to his shine that we know of?
That shine gives him invincibility and on top of that Certain attacks can be by passed by that ridicoulous shine. You could go into practice mode and use Marth Final smash against wolf. If you time the shine correctly you end up canceling Marths attack out. That shine is part of Wolfs Defensive game.
 

gsninja

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
458
Location
Calabasas, California
NNID
gsninja
3DS FC
5455-9389-5386
Switch FC
1284 3127 1819
One of my bigger comnplaints about Wolf, aside from his recovery, is his dash attack. I honestly don't like the fact that, instead of letting his momentum carry him forward a bit, he stops dead in his tracks to do the attack.
 

teekay

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
224
Location
Philadelphia area
It's a crappy dash attack alright. I don't think I've ever intentionally used it in a match. No good Wolf player I'm aware of ever uses it either.

It's his only genuinely crappy move though, in my opinion, so I can't complain much.
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
16,917
Location
Europe
I found sound minor use for it. Sometimes your opponent trips...it has decent range, so you can edgeguard against characters with gimpable recoveries...
 

BanKai029

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
38
Location
Pwnville
Did anyone see in that video (the second one) wolf like teleported from under the stage striaght up? how is that performed?
 
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