Weekly Matchup Discussion: Donkey Kong. (MT linked)

[Doctor X]

Undr did say that he only took D-Smash and Bair into consideration with his estimate though.

True. I'm not really trying to attack him as show him that DK has other moves that can be much more worthy of consideration if applied properly.

 

[kown]

IvanEva's match-up chart says that Donkey Kong has a slight advantage against Pit. This is probably due to Pit's lack of KO potential, as well as the fact that though Pit is middle-weight, that weight class makes little difference for Donkey Kong to KO Pit with any of his smash attacks. I also learned of a pseudo-chaingrab for Donkey Kong on my own, so Pit isn't the only one.

i agree dk has advantage in this match up from the last time i played one....3 months ago maybe lol.
reasons.
DK has no problem killing pit at almost any percent above 100.
arrows aren't as good as we are making them seem to be.
DKs literally have to start every match agasint every char with 40 percent down the drain.
a simple arrow isnt going to help especially when all he has to do is bair, nair, tilt, dodge it.
gimping a dk isnt easy...i mean think about it. you have to get DK off the ledge. a heavvy char off the ledge is hard to do especially agaisnt good DKs.

pit can do a bunch of combos and make us feel good...but killing a DK requires a lot more rack up damage than a middleweight char. and while we are racking up damage DK has alrdy got us to 100percent...so are styles commpletely change to arrow spam. and we fail.

 

[Undrdog]

True. I'm not really trying to attack him as show him that DK has other moves that can be much more worthy of consideration if applied properly.

When I think about this I have to consider it to be similar to trying to D-Tilt spike a Samus. If you get hit by the majority of DK's kill moves you deserve what you get. lol

 

[Doctor X]

When I think about this I have to consider it to be similar to trying to D-Tilt spike a Samus. If you get hit by the majority of DK's kill moves you deserve what you get. lol

You know, I could say the same thing about any move in the game. Especially any of Pit's kill moves. If everyone played perfectly, nobody would ever die.

 

[Coffee™]

Well, i've finished the match writeup, so i'm just waiting for Corrupt to come on so he can update the Master thread then we can move on to another character, but feel free to continue discussing, thats what the thread is for.

EDIT: DK match write up.

Incredibly far reaching attacks, powerful kill moves and being relatively fast for such a big guy makes Donkey Kong quite the formidable opponent. It doesn't help that he is also the second heaviest character in the game but, how does he fare against Paletuna's loyal servent?

DK easily outranges Pit and due to the strength of his attacks and his heavy weight, you're going to be seeing DK live to some obscene percentages while you will find yourself simply being KOed around 100% if you try to take him head on. However, Pit is hardly at a disadvantge in this matchup. On the contrary we could say Pit actually has the overall advantage! Pits Arrows play a key role in this fight, limiting a number of DKs options and allowing Pit to get kills easier than one might initially expect. DKs are infamous for their effective Bair approach which can be quite problematic for most characters, however, this isn't the case with this angel as Pit's Arrows disable this approach and force DK players to find an alternative means of approaching.

Pit's Arrows also eat up DK's midair jump relatively easily, which leads me on to another one of Pits advantages in this matchup, the Mirror Shield. As we know the Mirror shield is capable of reversing the direction of most melee attacks and DK's Up B is no exception. Off the edge DK is already vunerable due to his limited options for recovery and Pits exceptional ability to gimp most opponents but the Mirror Shield's attack reversing capabilities means that a DK forced to use his Up B is pretty much a dead DK.

With these satiable amount of advantages one might think that this match would be entirely in Pit's favour, but of course things are never that easy. DK isn't exactly going to walk off the edge for you to kill him. The hardest part of the matchup is in fact actually forcing DK off the edge to try to edgeguard him. DK is heavy, and difficult for Pit to force off the edge and its unavoidable, you had to get up in this big apes face at some point. This is where DK excels and where Pit needs to be most careful to avoid DK racking up too much damage and scoring an easy KO with his multitude of killing moves. Watch out for DK's Dtilt, which has long reach and is capable of tripping you, which can set you up for another combo, DKs' Nair is also extremely good and kills at low percentages and DK's Up B has super armor frames so be extremely wary of these three moves. DK is not without his own problems at close range though. At the beginning of a stock Pit can chaingrab DK to about 40% and then follow up with a down grab to Uair resulting in a decent amount of damage. Pits nairs are also extremely effective at wearing down DK's mediocre shield and can rack up major damage, the same can be said for Pits Uair and an airbourne DK.

At the end of it all this is one of Pit's easiest matchups and a totally uphill battle for an opposing DK. Take advantage of DK's big frame with your multi-hitting moves, arrows and his gimpable recovery and watch out for DK's powerful kill moves and you should come out on top.

 

[CorruptFate]

Just Pm it to me. And il put it up

 

[Undrdog]

You know, I could say the same thing about any move in the game. Especially any of Pit's kill moves. If everyone played perfectly, nobody would ever die.

That doesn't relate with what I just said. I compared Pit getting hit by DK's slow smashes with another match-up variant situation. It's nearly impossible to spike a Samus with Pit's D-Tilt due to her recovery options and magnet hands. In a similar way it's nearly impossible for DK to hit a Pit since Pit out spaces him. That might sound strange but Pit wins the spacing game against DK because of DK's size. DK has to constantly stay defensive against Pit and Pit decides the pacing of the game. Therefore can take control of the spacing as well.

Again I'm not too sure how anyone could think DK has any sort of advantage here. It's one of the biggest counters in the game.

 

[Phaigne]

I have to agree with Undr. DK is a formidable foe to most, but Pit has a nice advantage against him. He has several more option in KO and approach methods. As well as a far superior recovery.

 

[Doctor X]

That doesn't relate with what I just said. I compared Pit getting hit by DK's slow smashes with another match-up variant situation. It's nearly impossible to spike a Samus with Pit's D-Tilt due to her recovery options and magnet hands. In a similar way it's nearly impossible for DK to hit a Pit since Pit out spaces him. That might sound strange but Pit wins the spacing game against DK because of DK's size. DK has to constantly stay defensive against Pit and Pit decides the pacing of the game. Therefore can take control of the spacing as well.

DK's bair reaches further than any of Pit's aerials, and *all* of his ground moves reach further than every single one of Pit's ground moves except maybe the ftilt and dtilt. If you want to bring this down to a spacing advantage, DK has it, not Pit.

What I said most definitely applies, because your original response to me-- which basically amounts to "if DK kills you, you're bad" is silly and arbitrary and could be applied equally to almost any character in the game, Pit included.

Again I'm not too sure how anyone could think DK has any sort of advantage here. It's one of the biggest counters in the game.

Pit has like... Five different ways of gimping Ness at almost any point in his recovery. He also only has one aerial and one ground move that can consistenly out-range Pit, and DK himself has a much harder matchup against Dedede and the IC's. I wouldn't consider this in that league at all.

 

[Undrdog]

There's a difference here though. I'm not trying to debate anything. I just don't feel like checking the Pit forums every day to see if I'm being debated with.

As far as the match-up goes I'll say this. You can Powershield DK's Bair and get him before he lands. He's a lug and once you get in on him with the first hit, let's say a Nair, then you're going to start racking up damage. A DK that even tries to approach or use a Bair without a proper setup doesn't know the match-up very well.

On the other side, DK has very few fast attacks that can interrupt a chain of attacks from Pit. As for Powershielding, so long as Pit mixes in plenty of multi-hit attacks a DK Powershield will be fruitless. In fact two consecutive Nairs is enough to pull DK out of his shield.

If anyone asked me before this game came out to look at DK and create a character to counter him, I would probably give up Pit. Lots of chainable multi-hit moves; the ability to punish even moderately slow attacks (Angelic Stepping); the ability to reverse his recovery; and projectiles that can be directed to pin down the big guy.